Complicit in War Crimes

[eyeball]

5 minutes ago, Army Guy said:

I get it it is a poll that one should take with a grain of salt...

Nuff said then.

[WestCanMan]

42 minutes ago, Army Guy said:

59.3 strongly support in the Hamas attacks in Israel oct 7, with 15.7 supporting it some what....well over 75 % of those polled support the terrorist attacks on oct 7.... 

With numbers like that, they're basically proving that this will never end until there's just one state.

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79.1 % of those polled support Hamas terrorist network,  while in the west bank that grew to 95.4 percent...

It's interesting that the people of West Bank support this more strongly than the people of Gaza, who are bearing the brunt of it. 

It's worth noting that Hamas doesn't control the West Bank - yet - either. 

[CdnFox]

6 hours ago, eyeball said:

You're pretty special alright.

Yes.  And in the good way, not the way your mommy tells you that you're special  

[Army Guy]

1 hour ago, eyeball said:

Look more carefully, I asked if you support Israel's slaughter of Gazans.  I've made it quite clear that criminals should be charged. You still have a chance to clear up whether you feel the crimes committed on Oct 7 justify the collective punishment of some 12000 people, half of them kids.

Yes, i support Israel right to defend itself...Charged with what exactly ? collective punishment what are you going on about ? , got any numbers for the red cross, and not the Hamas authority , who for it,  wait are terrorists....

Hamas does not care how many die, in their fight to rid the globe of Jews.... while tragic Hamas is fully responsible for each of those deaths... WTF did you think was going to happen after those attacks, teddy bears and blankets...

[I am Groot]

2 hours ago, eyeball said:

Fu ck you too.

Look more carefully, I asked if you support Israel's slaughter of Gazans.  I've made it quite clear that criminals should be charged. You still have a chance to clear up whether you feel the crimes committed on Oct 7 justify the collective punishment of some 12000 people, half of them kids.

A. You're taking Hamas word for the casualties. I have my doubts.

B. You're acting like a typical innocent, naive Western never exposed to danger or violence who can't accept it's sometimes necessary. I see videos of cops arresting violent men all the time. And when they have to actually hit them, be it with batons or fist, regardless of how obviously violent the suspect is or how much he's struggling you can hear the gasps and cries of protest from the silly people watching.

Like somehow, that's not supposed to happen. Sorry, but it's sometimes necessary.

War is sometimes necessary too. And war in an urban environment where the enemy is heavily armed, suicidal, and dug in deep is inevitably going to result in a lot of civilian casualties.  There's no way around it. No way to avoid it. Israel has dumped millions of leaflets to direct civilians away from the areas they're going to attack, made thousands of phone calls, tens of thousands, to Palestinians in the areas they intend to bomb to tell them to move.

I don't think the allies ever bothered with this during WW2. Do you?

These are not called war crimes. Only silly westerners with no knowledge or understanding of war call it that.

Asking me if I support killing children is inane. I support destroying Hamas. There's no real path to peace without it. And Hamas is incrementally destroying the people, especially the children of Gaza, indoctrinating them into a harsh, unforgiving Islamist doctrine that will wind up ruining their lives. I support Israel doing what needs to be done to free them of that, even if it means civilian casualties.

 

[marcus]

3 hours ago, WestCanMan said:

Thanks for the polite reply. That's in short supply here.

Maybe you should do more posting here so that liberal positions can be presented in a more reasonable and intelligent manner. On this forum it's like the libs are out to make themselves look bad.

Just so you know I did give that video a chance, even though it's from AJ+ (Al Jazeera+, out of Qatar, a state sponsor of terrorism), but I only got about 3 minutes in. 

I'm not sure how familiar you are with them, but AJ+ is a FB page that spent most of 2015 talking about one group of 4 Hindus who killed a muslim girl, and they 'overlooked' the much smaller story of islamic state beheading journalists, burning people to death in cages, and committing genocide against Christians and Yazidis.

They will tell stories about what allegedly happened to one black woman in one backwoods hick town in Georgia in 1847 and act like that's what every white person in the US did this morning. 

AJ+ runs a few fluff stories to lend the impression that they're really good guys, then the rest is propaganda. They do some anti-Trump stuff to reel in the CNN crowd and they promote islam at the expense of all others.

You are right. They are Muslim-centric and I do have that in mind whenever I see or read anything from AJ. In the case of the video I shared and the information in it, I felt comfortable enough to share it. The reason I shared that particular video was because it was presented well and I didn't see anything in their information that I found to be wrong.

I find AJ and a few other sources to be an interesting insight into other perspectives, outside of the mainstream media in the West, which itself has a lot of issues sharing uncensored information, without the information going through a process so that special interest groups are not triggered. This goes for both Left and Right media outlets.

 

3 hours ago, WestCanMan said:

I'm aware that the Israelis are not all that kind to muslims, even the ones that live within Israel itself are not always treated very well, depending on whom you talk to: 

https://www.cnn.com/2023/10/21/middleeast/arab-israeli-citizens-cmd-intl/index.html

https://thehill.com/opinion/international/4270274-the-israeli-towns-where-jews-and-arabs-live-side-by-side/

They are not treated as bad as those in the West Bank, and for sure not as bad as those in Gaza, but they are second class citizens. For example: There is no freedom of movement, as far as where they can live, because they are not Jewish. The allocation of infrastructure funds to predominately Muslim neighbourhoods is different than Jewish neighbourhoods.

If a Muslim Israeli gets married to someone outside of Israel, the Muslim Israeli is not permitted to bring their spouse to Israel. Whereas, someone who is Jewish, with no family connection to Israel is able to move to Israel, without issues.

Then we have the Palestinians, both Muslims and Christians, who live in the occupied territories (WB/Gaza/Jerusalem). The the brutal, inhumane treatment of them is something that is not excusable. 

3 hours ago, WestCanMan said:

Some of our best friends are Christians from Amman and Beirut (he's dead now, cancer) and we still spend Christmas Eve with their family. They have a lot of muslim friends here for some reason, but that wasn't the case back in the ME. I get most of my ME info from them. I say what I heard here and there, they almost always correct me. 

From my understanding, Christians and Muslims get along well in Lebanon as well. Despite the civil wars in the past.

Right now, for example, there are Lebanese political alliances formed of Christians and Muslims vs another political party formed of Muslims and Christians.

Of course, there are many layers in their political story and history, like for example you have the Shiite Muslims vs Sunni Muslims (who are mostly Palestinian refugees driven out of Palestine by Israel).

The Iranian backed Hezbollah, is a different story. They are given permission to be in the South, but are not allowed to run for office. They're kind of a state within a state.

 

3 hours ago, WestCanMan said:

They had an "interesting" life to say the least. On two different occasions they had to jump in their car with almost nothing and go start a new life somewhere far away. The first time was when they left Beirut, I don't remember what the second place was. In the ME they call that "Going on holidays". He'd laugh, she'd say "whatever", but obviously it was no joke back there. 

Anyways, one of their friends has a really nice son named Zeid (they pronounce it Zed), who we met a couple times, who lived in Tel Aviv until a few years ago. He lives in Jordan now, but he said that 'Tel Aviv isn't like the rest of Israel'. They thought of the rest of the country as a bit of an overly religious old-skool joke. 

I don't know what it would be like there now, no doubt it would be much worse than before. 

It's amazing that you're getting that kind of insight and perspective.

Outside of studying the region, my own personal connection to the Middle East are relationships I have had with Iranians and Arabs. Some as friends in school, and the other was a romantic relationship with a atheist Persian woman.

What they all had in common was that they were against the governments of the place they were born in. Another was that they understood the plight of the Palestinians who have experienced injustice for close to a century and that injustice is being supported by Western governments. 

3 hours ago, WestCanMan said:

Old-skool religion sucks imo. I'm an atheist myself but for some reason most of my friends are occasional-to-weekly church goers (Christian). I think of religion as a weakness myself, but it gives some people great conviction (to do bad things).

Whatever. Religion is harder to understand that women. 

I find that religion can be good for some people who need structure and organization. Many people who have hit rock bottom have been saved by religion. They've been able to better themselves.

I agree that the problem with religion can be that it "gives some people conviction to do bad things". This is how Hamas recruits the impressionable young people. They take advantage of the hopelessness they have, the anger they have towards Israel (rightfully), and recruit kids. I haven't verified this, but I heard that the average age of the attackers in Israel on October 7th was around 23 years old. These are young people who have known nothing but occupation in an open air prison. When you see nothing ever improving, and you have Israel, backed by the West, flexing their military might every few years, not allowing people to move freely, AND you have Arab countries abandoning them politically, it's easy to turn to whoever is willing to speak up for them. 

Personally, I could care less for religion. It's not for me.

I also think that the Israel/Palestine situation was not born due to religion. To me, it's a case of the British, as the occupying power, forcing a population to move to a region which was inhabited by another group of people. It's colonialism to the core. The British and the U.S. created anti-Jewish laws to stop their migration to their countries. 

It was wrong to push Europe's 'problem' onto the Palestinians. However, you can't turn back to the clock. Israel is here to stay.

In my opinion, this is the only way forward:

Follow international law, and if any side decides not to, there should be consequences. It's time for the U.S. to stop supporting Israel, if they are going to continue to expand the illegal settlements. This is something that Bush Sr. attempted doing, before he was ousted by Clinton. 

Us people in the West need to pay attention to lobby groups and their funding of our politicians. We need to pressure our governments to stop allowing special interest groups, like Saudi, Israel, China (in Canada), the military industrial complex, pharma, wall street, unions and others not to control the decision making of politicians.

It doesn't matter if you're a leftist or a rights, it's in our best interest to pay attention to our politicians and how they are being funded. 

Israel has the military might to defend itself. They also have the U.S., ready to step in, in case a country like Iran decides to go beyond the financial support they send to Palestinian groups. Iran is not stupid enough to do something like that.

Israel is not going anywhere, and I'm certain Palestinians have accepted that. But Israel has gotten out of control. They're drunk with power and continue to push the limits. They continue to expand and annex Palestinian land, not allow a real, just Palestinian state, and they continue to do what they want, because our politicians do not have the backbone to stand up to them.

 

[WestCanMan]

1 hour ago, marcus said:

You are right. They are Muslim-centric and I do have that in mind whenever I see or read anything from AJ. In the case of the video I shared and the information in it, I felt comfortable enough to share it. The reason I shared that particular video was because it was presented well and I didn't see anything in their information that I found to be wrong.

I don't think that the things they say are 100% wrong, I just think that the things that they omit are critical to understanding the situation.

The Jews are up against centuries of discrimination, subjugation, genocides, being banned from their own holiest sites, etc. 

The level of violence that the Israelis faced long before, recently before, during, on the day of, and shortly after their creation as a country, and just last month, makes a pretty good case that their paranoia and crackdowns are warranted. When they let their guard down they get slaughtered by people whose stated goal is to slaughter them.

I'd be paranoid too.

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I find AJ and a few other sources to be an interesting insight into other perspectives, outside of the mainstream media in the West, which itself has a lot of issues sharing uncensored information, without the information going through a process so that special interest groups are not triggered. This goes for both Left and Right media outlets.

The media was bad when it was just politically skewed, but it is becoming a cesspool of politically polarized invective. People are starting to hate one another just based on the political leanings, and I'm talking within Canada and the US, not Rwanda.

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They are not treated as bad as those in the West Bank, and for sure not as bad as those in Gaza, but they are second class citizens. For example: There is no freedom of movement, as far as where they can live, because they are not Jewish. The allocation of infrastructure funds to predominately Muslim neighbourhoods is different than Jewish neighbourhoods.

If a Muslim Israeli gets married to someone outside of Israel, the Muslim Israeli is not permitted to bring their spouse to Israel. Whereas, someone who is Jewish, with no family connection to Israel is able to move to Israel, without issues.

It's 2nd-class citizen lite compared to the 600 years of Ottoman rule. Jews couldn't hold jobs where they had muslims below them, couldn't pray in their own holy sites (1,000 years of not being allowed to pray at Temple Mount), paid extra taxes, couldn't even ride horses in some areas, etc. 

Muslims can become judges in Israel and preside over cases regardless of religion. They can become Drs, engineers, etc. 

It's not an ideal place for muslims to be, because religious bigotry can't vanish within one or two generations, but they're better off than Jews were in muslim countries. And that's while many of the muslim countries are plotting/trying to commit genocide against Israel. I wouldn't be as understanding with the backdrop of genocide looming.

Quote

Then we have the Palestinians, both Muslims and Christians, who live in the occupied territories (WB/Gaza/Jerusalem). The the brutal, inhumane treatment of them is something that is not excusable. 

I was a Palestinian supporter as a young adult. For me the tipping point was when I realized that the "refugee camps" were just there to keep the hatred going, and that children grow up in hell on earth just so that muslim children, both inside those camps and all around the world, would grow up completely immersed in hatred of the Jews. 

If humanity was a real concern of the muslim world, they would have ended that shithole existence the better part of a century ago. There's room for all of the Palestinian "refugees" and more in Saudi Arabia alone, and it's the land of their holiest sites, but there are also 15 other muslims countries where they could go and live in religious bliss. 

There are no "refugee camps" for the 8-10 million Hindus and Sikhs who were wrongfully expelled from Pakistan. There's no "right to return" necessary, because Pakistan created such a religiously bigoted shithole country that no one in their right mind would move there. Am I right?

Quote

From my understanding, Christians and Muslims get along well in Lebanon as well. Despite the civil wars in the past.

Right now, for example, there are Lebanese political alliances formed of Christians and Muslims vs another political party formed of Muslims and Christians.

Of course, there are many layers in their political story and history, like for example you have the Shiite Muslims vs Sunni Muslims (who are mostly Palestinian refugees driven out of Palestine by Israel).

The Iranian backed Hezbollah, is a different story. They are given permission to be in the South, but are not allowed to run for office. They're kind of a state within a state.

 

It's amazing that you're getting that kind of insight and perspective.

Outside of studying the region, my own personal connection to the Middle East are relationships I have had with Iranians and Arabs. Some as friends in school, and the other was a romantic relationship with a atheist Persian woman.

What they all had in common was that they were against the governments of the place they were born in. Another was that they understood the plight of the Palestinians who have experienced injustice for close to a century and that injustice is being supported by Western governments. 

I find that religion can be good for some people who need structure and organization. Many people who have hit rock bottom have been saved by religion. They've been able to better themselves.

I agree that the problem with religion can be that it "gives some people conviction to do bad things". This is how Hamas recruits the impressionable young people. They take advantage of the hopelessness they have, the anger they have towards Israel (rightfully), and recruit kids. I haven't verified this, but I heard that the average age of the attackers in Israel on October 7th was around 23 years old. These are young people who have known nothing but occupation in an open air prison. When you see nothing ever improving, and you have Israel, backed by the West, flexing their military might every few years, not allowing people to move freely, AND you have Arab countries abandoning them politically, it's easy to turn to whoever is willing to speak up for them. 

Personally, I could care less for religion. It's not for me.

I also think that the Israel/Palestine situation was not born due to religion. To me, it's a case of the British, as the occupying power, forcing a population to move to a region which was inhabited by another group of people. It's colonialism to the core. The British and the U.S. created anti-Jewish laws to stop their migration to their countries. 

It was wrong to push Europe's 'problem' onto the Palestinians. However, you can't turn back to the clock. Israel is here to stay.

The fact that you don't live a life of absolute conviction to one viewpoint or another is refreshing.

Quote

In my opinion, this is the only way forward:

Follow international law, and if any side decides not to, there should be consequences. It's time for the U.S. to stop supporting Israel, if they are going to continue to expand the illegal settlements. This is something that Bush Sr. attempted doing, before he was ousted by Clinton. 

The problem with that is that it leads to genocide, and nothing else. It wouldn't take long before it was too late to put the toothpaste back in the tube.

It took the world a long time to accept the fact that the Jews weren't going to just die off as a people, and to realize that the rest of the world was trying to kill them off as fast as they could.

If the concept of Israel is abandoned it will mean another 1,000 years of persecution and genocide. It's taking everything the US can do to keep them there. If Hezbollah unleashed all their rockets at the some time Hamas did, I think Israel would already be gone. 

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Us people in the West need to pay attention to lobby groups and their funding of our politicians. We need to pressure our governments to stop allowing special interest groups, like Saudi, Israel, China (in Canada), the military industrial complex, pharma, wall street, unions and others not to control the decision making of politicians.

It doesn't matter if you're a leftist or a rights, it's in our best interest to pay attention to our politicians and how they are being funded. 

I agree with all that, but polarity rules right now. 

Whether or not Trump overestimated the value of his properties (as every is wont to do when they apply for a 2nd mtg) is the subject of a whole host of felony indictments, but the Bidens making over $10M in sketchy business dealings with the Chinese Bank and their one road, one belt executives is of no concern to Americans. "Joe didn't know" lol.  

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Israel has the military might to defend itself. They also have the U.S., ready to step in, in case a country like Iran decides to go beyond the financial support they send to Palestinian groups. Iran is not stupid enough to do something like that.

Israel is not going anywhere, and I'm certain Palestinians have accepted that. But Israel has gotten out of control. They're drunk with power and continue to push the limits. They continue to expand and annex Palestinian land, not allow a real, just Palestinian state, and they continue to do what they want, because our politicians do not have the backbone to stand up to them.

I think that it's a matter of time before American technological superiority ceases to hold the decisive advantage for Israel. We're seeing more and more that Hamas has great intel on Israeli military infrastructure, they have more and more advanced weapons, better communications systems, etc. 

In 100 years will America really still be ahead of the Chinese? Are they ahead of the Chinese right now? Who will China support? The Chinese gov't massacred their own people in the '50s, and they had a non-delicate way of curbing their baby boom, do you think that they care if everyone in Israel dies if it can get them the support of the whole Arab world for a while? 

All it would take is for China to support Iran with a bit of conviction for 1 year and there will be no more Israel to discuss. 

Our acceptance of genocide-enthusiasts is really unhealthy imo. I think that we're being really naive: Iran is way more capable of unspeakable evil than we give them credit for.  

Edited November 27, 2023 by WestCanMan

[eyeball]

7 hours ago, Army Guy said:

WTF did you think was going to happen after those attacks, teddy bears and blankets...

Exactly what is happening, indiscriminate bombing of civilian areas.

I know you subscribe to a bunch of high falutin' ethical hooey that justifies it but AFAIC collateral slaughtering brings revenge down to the same level as Hamas'.

[Army Guy]

Just now, eyeball said:

Exactly what is happening, indiscriminate bombing of civilian areas.

I know you subscribe to a bunch of high falutin' ethical hooey that justifies it but AFAIC collateral slaughtering brings revenge down to the same level as Hamas'.

Eyeball those are some very big accusations the same ones that are feeding the false news ( hamas news) around this conflict, I get it you don't like inter national law or the conventions and how it is applied in these cases... There is no indiscriminate bombing, and you don't know what precautions are being undertaken to make each strike free from collateral damage.

But war is brutal nothing is going to change that.. you can scream this conflict is the worst, but this is happening in over 20 different spaces on the globe....Some conflicts are worse than others i can tell you Ukraine is much much worse with Civilians are the intended targets of the Russian military, where civilians many will freeze to death this winter... and i don't see massive numbers around the world marching for them...well becasue they are not terrorist, thats why, they don't have the PR department Hamas has...

This will stop when Hamas is destroyed and the Palestinians rise up and put an end to all of it...But it is not, Palestinians have one goal to make Palestine a one state solution and pushing Jews into the sea...

 

[WestCanMan]

30 minutes ago, eyeball said:

Exactly what is happening, indiscriminate bombing of civilian areas.

I know you subscribe to a bunch of high falutin' ethical hooey that justifies it but AFAIC collateral slaughtering brings revenge down to the same level as Hamas'.

During the last intifada the Israelis lost a lot of very expensive tanks and a lot of crewmen were killed by cheap rockets because they didn't soften Gaza enough before they went in. 

This doesn't have to be a really dangerous proposition for the Israelis. Enough of them were burned to death on Oct 7th. 

[CdnFox]

1 hour ago, eyeball said:

Exactly what is happening, indiscriminate bombing of civilian areas.

 

Except it isn't and that's pretty obvious.  The bombing is not indiscriminate, and they are attacking hamas, not children.

Your buddies in Hamas - they really actually did target civillians. I get that you want to defend them so saying the israelis are makes your guys look less aweful.  "see, they do it too"!!!   

Except they're not.

[eyeball]

7 hours ago, I am Groot said:

A. You're taking Hamas word for the casualties. I have my doubts.

So you really have no idea - it could be worse for all you know but so what?

7 hours ago, I am Groot said:

These are not called war crimes. Only silly westerners with no knowledge or understanding of war call it that

W just isn't there to understand, you don't have a TV?

[marcus]

On 11/26/2023 at 3:49 PM, I am Groot said:

Resolutions that intend to destroy Israel.

How would they destroy Israel?

Israel doesn't want the deal with the Palestinian refugees they drove out of what is now Israel. Okay, I get that.

But did you know that Israel doesn't want them in the occupied territories either? I'm talking about the over 2 million Palestinian refugees living in the surrounding areas, driven out by Israel during the Nakba. 

Israel does not allow any Palestinians to move to the West Bank or the Gaza Strip.

From Wikipedia:

Restrictions on the movement of Palestinians in the Israeli-occupied territories by Israel is an issue in the Israeli–Palestinian conflict. According to B'Tselem, following the 1967 war, the occupied territories were proclaimed closed military zones. In 1972, general exit orders were issued allowing residents of those territories to move freely between the West Bank, Israel and the Gaza Strip. 

Do you know why this is happening?

I can tell you why it's happening. It's because Israel wants control over all of Palestine. This is why they encourage Jewish settlers to move into the occupied territories and forbid any Palestinians to move back to their own land.

Are you okay with that? In case you're wondering, this is called ethnic cleansing.

On 11/26/2023 at 3:49 PM, I am Groot said:

I'm sure you pay equal attention, btw, to the million Jews driven out of their homes in Arab countries nearby. Unlike most of the Palestinians, they really WERE driven out. The majority of the Palestinians just fled on their own because of the fighting.

Before the mass zionist immigration into Palestine, Jews and Muslims lived in relative peace in Arab countries. Jews were definitely a lot safer in the Arab countries than they were in European countries. Once Europe (and U.S.) decided that they don't want to deal with the European Jews who were being driven out, and after they created laws against Jews migrating to their countries, they pushed them towards Palestine. When an influx of people migrated to the area, tensions started forming. When Zionist militias started attacking Palesitnians, tension increased even more, and this tension extended to the Arab countries with Jewish populations.

The idea of Zionism having their own land could have been a beautiful story, if there wasn't another group of people already living there, and these people were not killed or driven out of their lands.

[eyeball]

1 hour ago, Army Guy said:

I get it you don't like inter national law or the conventions and how it is applied in these cases...

Starting, as it did in this case, with the ones that justify colonization, occupation and subjugation.

[marcus]

1 hour ago, CdnFox said:

Except it isn't and that's pretty obvious.  The bombing is not indiscriminate, and they are attacking hamas, not children.

Reality says something else:

Source

 

 

Edited November 28, 2023 by marcus

[CdnFox]

22 minutes ago, marcus said:

Reality says something else:

Source

 

 

Well i see this description of the Gazan attack:

Kibbutz Re’im, off Road 232, is where 260 partygoers at an all-night rave were massacred at daybreak on Saturday. Survivors have told of playing dead next to bodies of their friends and watching women being raped before they were shot in the head, or tied up and burned.

But i don't see anything that suggests israelis are targeting civvies.  I'm sure they are blowing up areas of potential strategic importance, bridges and such, and bombing areas they know to be controlled by hamas. 

Nothing wrong with damage vs accuracy - once you've told the civvies to get out which they did.  You'll notice he did not say the emphasis was on civillian casualties.

So the reality is precisely what i said it was.

Once again you have to lie to try to make your point. Which should tell you that you don't have a very good point.

[marcus]

1 hour ago, CdnFox said:

Well i see this description of the Gazan attack:

Kibbutz Re’im, off Road 232, is where 260 partygoers at an all-night rave were massacred at daybreak on Saturday. Survivors have told of playing dead next to bodies of their friends and watching women being raped before they were shot in the head, or tied up and burned.

But i don't see anything that suggests israelis are targeting civvies.  I'm sure they are blowing up areas of potential strategic importance, bridges and such, and bombing areas they know to be controlled by hamas. 

Nothing wrong with damage vs accuracy - once you've told the civvies to get out which they did.  You'll notice he did not say the emphasis was on civillian casualties.

So the reality is precisely what i said it was.

Once again you have to lie to try to make your point. Which should tell you that you don't have a very good point.

Stop embarrassing yourself.

I have yet to see one post from you, where you are not trying to spread misinformation.

Now you're doubling down, after being proven wrong.

By the way:

Indiscriminate attacks strike military objects and protected objects alike, thus violating the principle of distinction between combatants and protected civilians.^{[note 1]} Contrary to direct attacks against civilian objects, where the attacker is deliberately trying to hit a civilian object (e.g. to spread terror and break the morale of the population), indiscriminate attacks imply that the attacker is indifferent as to whether the targets are military or not^[6] and conducts the operation without regard for any effect it may have on the civilians.^[7

In case you forgot:

Source

 

[Army Guy]

From a Palestinian peace protestor perspective....

Here is a man that is touring the globe and telling his story, the story of what it will take to bring peace to Palestine. Yes it differs from the protestors message that only want Israel to be thrown into the sea.. Rather his view represents the minority , one based in reality, and not death and destruction.

Ceasefire isn't the answer: Palestinian peace activist weighs in on the Israel-Hamas war (msn.com)

Edited November 28, 2023 by Army Guy

[CdnFox]

9 hours ago, marcus said:

Stop embarrassing yourself.

I have yet to see one post from you, where you are not trying to spread misinformation.

 

THAT WAS LITERALLY FROM YOUR OWN SOURCE. If it's misniformation it's YOUR misinformation, i literally quoted your source.

So - misinformation is when you don't like the facts, even if they're facts you posted.

So basically you're a lying sack of shit who just takes things out of context and gets mad when someone points it out.

Enough of your lies already.  The jews are not committing war crimes,  hamas deserves to be wiped out 100 percent and any actions necessary to make that happen are legit,  and the people of gaza brought this suffering on themselves by supporting hamas and their terrorist ways in the first place.

This is 100 percent on the people of gaza.  They started this war by killing civies, they could end the war tomorrow by surrendering and letting the israelis dismantle their military tunnels and infrastructure and arrest hamas soldiers and bigwigs. 

Every single death, every destroyed home, every moment of pain and anguish is 100 percent on them. IT would never have started without them, it would end tomorrow if they wanted it to.

And you lying your ass off won't change any of that. Hope your people there enjoy another day of getting their asses blown to hell, it's literally what they asked for.

[Army Guy]

10 hours ago, marcus said:

Stop embarrassing yourself.

I have yet to see one post from you, where you are not trying to spread misinformation.

Now you're doubling down, after being proven wrong.

By the way:

Indiscriminate attacks strike military objects and protected objects alike, thus violating the principle of distinction between combatants and protected civilians.^{[note 1]} Contrary to direct attacks against civilian objects, where the attacker is deliberately trying to hit a civilian object (e.g. to spread terror and break the morale of the population), indiscriminate attacks imply that the attacker is indifferent as to whether the targets are military or not^[6] and conducts the operation without regard for any effect it may have on the civilians.^[7

In case you forgot:

Source

 

I read you source i can not find any mention of the top half of your remarks "if case you forgot" the one line you have redlined is there, but nothing more... could you clarify...

Speaking of what you have underlined i think your making an assumption... that they dropping bombs everywhere...you fail to mention all the precautions they take , mass leaflets drops, individual phone calls, and on the ground loud speakers blasting warnings... anyone left after that is collateral damage 

Very few things are listed as protected places, hospitals, schools, religious places, there are few more... ( but there is a caveat, these places must not be used by the enemy, for protection, or military purposes, like house ammo, weapons', etc......they lose they protestive status once they do... meaning they can be targeted or attacked...recently we have seen ambulances being used by Hamas to transport hostages...It should be noted everything else is free game...if it gives the enemy shelter, or fortification then it can become a military target...you want to take away all the enemies advantages, for shelter, protection, sources of food, or energy etc...

But the entire objective of hitting a target is to do maximum damage, and trust me accuracy is pretty much guaranteed, this is not world war II.  this is placing a 2000 lb bomb in your lap while your on the toilet...even dumb bombs are pretty much accurate to with 100 plus feet.

So in this context is pretty much a moot point...besides why not do the maximum damage possible ? 

[Army Guy]

On 11/20/2023 at 8:40 PM, eyeball said:

That's right Palestinians were only under the threat of Zionist terrorism at that point - the precursor to the IDF.

Well that works 2 ways during that time period both sides committed acts of terrorism to each other and the British, i guess that justifies what is happening today...

Becasue Israel has pulled itself up from the dirt with no help from any nation.....from nothing to the state they are in today that justifies the terrorism they face daily from a group of people you and others defend.... why becasue they have painted themselves as the underdog...NEWS flash, Palestine is a terrorist state, it's government , and those that support it all terrorist or terrorist supporters...

The minority of Palestinians are  peaceful, and just want to have a safe place to raise their kids....the majority will not cease terrorist activates until Israel is destroyed...

 

  

[I am Groot]

On 11/7/2023 at 11:17 PM, CITIZEN_2015 said:

No, because Israel is supposed to be a democracy pr the good guys not Syria or Saudi Arabia UNLESS  you admit that Israel is as bad as murderous Islamic republic or Assad of Syria or Saudi criminals?

Will you hate them less, then, and just wave away their supposed crimes without interest?

[I am Groot]

On 11/8/2023 at 10:52 AM, WestCanMan said:

I have no idea if what you're saying is true and neither do you, and TBH it doesn't sound realistic. 

Yes, I do. I can see all the videos of destroyed apartment buildings, markets, restaurants, schools and such. I can listen to people I trust who have been there, like Douglas Murray, and reported on it. It's been covered extensively for the last year in almost every media large and small, left and right. Not one disagrees. Though perhaps if you go far enough out onto the fringes you'll find some. If I have no idea about that then I have no idea about anything. Nor does anyone else.

On 11/8/2023 at 10:52 AM, WestCanMan said:

Ukraine is guilty of their own war crimes - firing from the types of buildings mentioned above,

Let me get this straight. Ukraine has been firing at Russian troops hundreds of miles away from apartment buildings and markets and restaurants? Is that the position you'll be standing behind?

 

On 11/8/2023 at 10:52 AM, WestCanMan said:

Maybe they forgot what war was when they provoked this conflict.

By thinking they were an independent country, you mean?

On 11/8/2023 at 10:52 AM, WestCanMan said:

I really don't care what happens to Ukrainians. Those guys need to sort their own shit out. We shouldn't be prolonging that war. 

Those of us who have an interest in the preservation of Western society and its international norms and order, who don't want a return to the bad old days when vicious, murdering dictators use their armies to attack their neighbors and steal territory DO care what happens to Ukraine.

And by the way, if anything is serving to give China second thoughts about the wisdom of attacking Taiwan it's Russia's quagmire in Ukraine.

On 11/8/2023 at 10:55 AM, WestCanMan said:

I think that bringing a hostile military alliance to someone's doorstep is worse than a woman showing off her ankles. 

NATO is not a 'hostile military alliance'. If we were we would have already crushed the Russians.

 

[I am Groot]

On 11/9/2023 at 3:00 PM, WestCanMan said:

Who are you to say "Putin should let NATO troops camp out 5 hrs from Moscow"?

Someone who operates on logic and common sense. And can read a map. The distance between NATO member Latvia and Moscow is a lot shorter.

On 11/9/2023 at 3:00 PM, WestCanMan said:

They don't just have to fear a 2025 invasion. They also have to fear 2035, 2045, 2085 invasion, etc...

Bullshit.

On 11/9/2023 at 3:00 PM, WestCanMan said:

The fact that they're right there on Moscow's doorstep means that her would citizens have to live with the exact same kind of fear that Germans lived with from 45-90.

Horseshit. None of this is about Russia fearing anything. It's about Putin's desire to pull the old Soviet Union back together again, by hook or by crook.

On 11/9/2023 at 3:00 PM, WestCanMan said:

And what is Ukraine aside from a NATO proxy? 

An independent nation with its own cultural heritage. A nation whose integrity was guaranteed by Putin. But I guess Putin's word isn't worth much.

On 11/9/2023 at 3:00 PM, WestCanMan said:

You are acting like there weren't Nazi war crimes being committed in Ukraine before any of this started, but that's not surprising because our media here never talked about it. 

Spare me your alt-right garbage. There are a hundred times more nazis in Russia than there ever were in Ukraine. And the war crimes committed by Russia outnumber anything done by Ukraine a thousandfold.

On 11/12/2023 at 4:47 PM, Gaétan said:

It makes sense Israel army couldn't attack Gaza because it makes innocent victimes and it is forbidden by international laws. Does it make sense that an army doen't respect laws of war.

Stop with the bullshit about you knowing anything about international law. You don't have a clue and everyone here knows it.

Edited November 29, 2023 by I am Groot

[Gaétan]

There are less Hamas fighters who died than israelis soldiers.