Jim Jordan for Speaker?

[myata]

20 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

What's your example on that ?

No personal parallels but Germany in the early 1930s is reminiscent. A rising authoritarian tide, and no strong alternatives around to stem it. It didn't win right away, but via a process of gradual encroachment and decay of democracy until nothing was standing and a totalitarian dictatorship emerged. Authoritarian-style governments in Eastern Europe recently: Hungary, Poland. Turkey. The process, and the story is quite common. Where the society does not have internal will and couldn't organize itself to stem authoritarianism, it can and won via slow and gradual encroachment.

[robosmith]

Republicans ramp up search for an escape hatch from speaker chaos

Quote

Centrists are signaling they’re open to a deal. Democrats are outlining terms. With no speaker in sight yet, House Republicans are ramping up their discussions about a way to reopen the chamber.

A bipartisan solution to the GOP’s leadership chaos still sounds farfetched to most on the Hill — but then, so does the idea that Rep. Jim Jordan (R-Ohio) might overcome his dozens of skeptics and win a floor vote early next week.

There’s just one problem with the idea that a temporary compromise could get the House back to legislative business: It has the same issue that plagued the speakership bids of Kevin McCarthy, Steve Scalise and now Jordan. Right now, no solution has the near-unanimous House Republican support that’s required to pass on the floor.

Which means that, unless Jordan can overcome his skeptics and push to victory on the floor in the next several days, the only way forward might be with Democrats. A group of centrist Democrats wrote to Acting Speaker Patrick McHenry (R-N.C.) on Friday to propose a limited agenda and some perks for the opposing party in exchange for temporarily restarting House business during a time of global crisis. 

 

[Michael Hardner]

1 hour ago, myata said:

No personal parallels but Germany in the early 1930s is reminiscent. A rising authoritarian tide, and no strong alternatives around to stem it. It didn't win right away, but via a process of gradual encroachment and decay of democracy until nothing was standing and a totalitarian dictatorship emerged. Authoritarian-style governments in Eastern Europe recently: Hungary, Poland. Turkey. The process, and the story is quite common. Where the society does not have internal will and couldn't organize itself to stem authoritarianism, it can and won via slow and gradual encroachment.

ok - seems like an anti-example  The authoritarian regime in Germany grew out of democracy, in spite of democracy.  And it wasn't democracy that killed the Soviet Union either.

I mean, don't get me wrong, I like the idea but it seems more like authoritarianism dies with utter collapse/devastation.

[robosmith]

The Threat to Democracy Is Coming From Inside the U.S. House

Quote

Representative Jim Jordan may or may not break down the last few Republican holdouts who blocked his election as House speaker yesterday. But the fact that about 90 percent of the House GOP conference voted to place him in the chamber’s top job marks an ominous milestone in the Republican Party’s reconfiguration since Donald Trump’s emergence as its central figure.

The preponderant majority of House Republicans backing Jordan is attempting to elevate someone who not only defended former President Trump’s efforts to subvert the 2020 presidential election but participated in them more extensively than any other member of Congress.

Jordan’s rise, like Trump’s own commanding lead in the 2024 GOP presidential race, provides more evidence that for the first time since the Civil War, the dominant faction in one of America’s two major parties is no longer committed to the principles of democracy as the U.S. has known them. 

 

[myata]

2 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

The authoritarian regime in Germany grew out of democracy, in spite of democracy.  And it wasn't democracy that killed the Soviet Union either.

In my view, in general terms the political situation quite a few parallels. Apart from general social background that is a longer discussion, we have:

the conventional political system in a deep limbo: check;

no obvious way out or / and forward: looks very much like;

populist and increasingly authoritarian sect with no commitment to any principles or truth: yes;

with each revolution, the mob raises the degree of the rhetoric and expels moderates converting others into voiceless adepts: in progress as we speak;

From here, the current status quo where moderates and dissenters are ostracized and expelled, GOP has exactly two steps left to a fully authoritarian personality cult sect:

1. Dissent is absolutely not tolerated (can't say a word against the leader or be expelled)

reality check: only 10% of the GOP caucus aren't voting for the Idol's candidate.

2. Dissent made criminal and persecuted.

Is this not an objective view? Worrying.

 

 

[robosmith]

Jim Jordan: An Absurd and Dangerous Choice for House Speaker

Quote

Here are nine of the countless reasons he can’t be trusted with U.S. democracy.

TWO YEARS AGO, I called for Congress to punish and even expel lawmakers who betrayed America by trying to overturn the 2020 election. Now a majority of House Republicans have chosen Jim Jordan, one of Donald Trump’s “Stop the Steal” ringleaders, as their preferred candidate for speaker of the House.

How dare they even think about it?

The speaker of the House is right behind the vice president in the presidential line of succession. A speaker might have to preside over a disputed presidential election. A speaker in theory could even manufacture disputes by leading his or her party to reject state electors, an amped-up version of what we saw congressional Republicans do on January 6, 2021.

The next speaker should not be someone we already know is willing to manufacture disputes and support groundless claims to overturn an election to install the president he wants.

Jordan is an absurd and dangerous choice for that reason and too many others to count. 

 

[reason10]

On 10/19/2023 at 8:01 AM, myata said:

Moderate Republicans who didn't vote for Jordan are reporting threats and intimidation. A normal, regular practice of the lying mob, no principles no democratic or moral standards anything is allowed and good to get it your way. What is Republican party becoming? Disheartening and disgusting, honestly. Who wants their democracy, and the country be ruled by people like that, and be like that?

Jordan is a moderate, compared to the far left NAZI Democrat who all  goose step in line.

The problem is the fact that the Republicans cannot agree on LUNCH, much less elect a speaker. Democrats don't have that problem because they are all basically a bunch of ignorant HITLER YOUTH who will follow any leader with a funny mustache.

 

[WestCanMan]

On 10/19/2023 at 7:31 AM, myata said:

As history shows very clearly, when authoritarianism rises, standing up to it firmly, on the principles of democracy and Constitution is the only way. It will corrode and take over tacitly, through coercion, intimidation, forcing out and removal of opponents, one by one, until no one left to stand. This is how it happened before and it will happen again, if people of reason and conscience wouldn't or couldn't stand up to it. Nothing is guaranteed in the evolution.

You don't even know what authoritarianism looks like ffs.

Do the GOP control the media?

Do the GOP control the FBI?

Did the GOP run a 3-yr-long show trial, complete with FBI crimes, to de-legitimize an election, and then criminalize election skepticism the moment they got in power?

When was the last time the GOP created a fake narrative like "A couple hundred unarmed men almost overthrew the gov't! We need 20,000 national guardsmen at the capitol!"...

The Dems narrative literally says: "We knew that there was going to be an insurrection because there was so much chatter about overthrowing the gov't from alt-right extremist groups, but we were caught by surprise so we didn't have the national guard out. A couple hundred unarmed nearly overthrew the gov't. Wait a sec... one guy had some guns in a truck a few miles away, so yeah, it was basically war."

You'd have to be completely stupid to think that those narratives don't cancel each other out. 

I get that you believe it, along with a few of the beauts we have on this site, but no one of consequence believes it.

Your bullshit narrative about GOP AUTHORITARIANISM!!!!!!! just happens to coincide with the weakest president in the hustory of the US sewering the country and the planet simultaneously.

It was Demmies and their sycophant media that made us all spend hundreds of billions of dollars keeping people at home, it's because of the Dems that there's war in Europe and the ME cost hundreds of billions more, it was bidolt that led the biggest botched retreat since Dieppe, and the Dems' divisiveness that has everyone at each other's throats.

The Dems are so far down in popularity that the polls can't even lie their way to respectability. 

This narrative is the new covid fear porn. It's the new global warming. It's lame BS only fit for leftard consumption. 

[myata]

44 minutes ago, WestCanMan said:

A couple hundred unarmed men almost overthrew the gov't! We need

Just can't stop lying? Nothing works without it, no? Police seized arms from capitol rioters.

[WestCanMan]

13 hours ago, myata said:

Just can't stop lying? Nothing works without it, no? Police seized arms from capitol rioters.

Your article cites:

1) some guns in a truck a few blocks away (ie, not at the capitol)

2) Some guns in a trailer a few blocks away (ie, not at the capitol)

3) Some plastic handcuffs

4) One taser

5) One person had a holstered pistol, there is no account of him brandishing it.

FYI if you want to count "their weapons that weren't in their possession" you could add butcher knives from their kitchen, hunting rifles inside of their gun locker, chainsaws in their garage, and maybe even some whips and double-dongs from their boudoir. 

Every time that 99% of Americans walk into a bank anywhere they're considered "armed" by your id10tic standard of "weapons within a few blocks of them".

So, exactly like I said before, "A couple hundred unarmed men almost overthrew the gov't!". You're such a god-damned liar. 

[Rebound]

35 minutes ago, WestCanMan said:

Your article cites:

1) some guns in a truck a few blocks away (ie, not at the capitol)

2) Some guns in a trailer a few blocks away (ie, not at the capitol)

3) Some plastic handcuffs

4) One taser

5) One person had a holstered pistol, there is no account of him brandishing it.

FYI if you want to count "their weapons that weren't in their possession" you could add butcher knives from their kitchen, hunting rifles inside of their gun locker, chainsaws in their garage, and maybe even some whips and double-dongs from their boudoir. 

Every time that 99% of Americans walk into a bank anywhere they're considered "armed" by your id10tic standard of "weapons within a few blocks of them".

So, exactly like I said before, "A couple hundred unarmed men almost overthrew the gov't!". You're such a god-damned liar. 

Uh, really? Quoting the article:

A man named Cleveland Meredith, who traveled from Colorado in order to participate in the protests at the Capitol, was arrested at his hotel in D.C. last week after law enforcement received a tip that he had threatened to kill House Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.). Meredith told investigators that he mistakenly arrived in the District a day after the riot.

The FBI said in court documents that it found a handgun, an assault rifle and hundreds of rounds of ammunition in Meredith’s trailer and text messages on his phone in which he talked about killing Pelosi and told a friend “headed to DC with a shit ton of 5.56 armor piercing ammo [purple devil emoji].” 

[myata]

4 hours ago, WestCanMan said:

Your article cites:

Liar, liar. Nothing works without it, eh?

“The defendant brought these weapons to the immediate vicinity of the U.S. Capitol Building, and traveled to the area with two firearms on his person. The amount of weapons suggests an intent to provide them to others, as no one person could reasonably use so many at once,” they added.

"Another man, Christopher Alberts of Maryland, was arrested on the Capitol grounds as police were clearing the building when an officer noticed that he was carrying a pistol".

The gun charges that have emerged in court over the past week are only a fraction of the more than 70 cases that federal prosecutors have filed in the wake of the riot. And Justice Department officials have suggested that many more are likely to be charged in the coming days as their investigation unfolds.

[WestCanMan]

2 minutes ago, myata said:

Liar, liar. Nothing works without it, eh?

“The defendant brought these weapons to the immediate vicinity of the U.S. Capitol Building, and traveled to the area with two firearms on his person. The amount of weapons suggests an intent to provide them to others, as no one person could reasonably use so many at once,” they added.

"Another man, Christopher Alberts of Maryland, was arrested on the Capitol grounds as police were clearing the building when an officer noticed that he was carrying a pistol".

The gun charges that have emerged in court over the past week are only a fraction of the more than 70 cases that federal prosecutors have filed in the wake of the riot. And Justice Department officials have suggested that many more are likely to be charged in the coming days as their investigation unfolds.

What you wrote there conflicts with their statement earlier in the article:

Quote

Coffman was arrested only because police were investigating pipe bombs that were discovered near the Capitol at the Republican Party and Democratic Party headquarters and noticed one of the guns in his truck while securing the area.

In charging documents filed with the federal district court in D.C., police said they searched Coffman’s truck while sweeping the areas around the pipe bombs, finding the weapons along with hundreds of rounds of ammunition and a list of public officials and journalists that identified them as “good guys” and “bad guys.”

If he had guns at the capitol with him, why didn't they arrest him there? 

And in any event, you're absolutely a f-ing liar, because my posts are still 100% correct: it as absolute BS to pretend that "we know it was an insurrection because there was so much insurrectionist chatter going on, but we didn't bother to protect the capitol, and s a few hundred UNARMED men almost overthrew the gov't".

Yup, unarmed, because during the course of the riot, no one used any guns or knives.

For you to characterize it as an "armed assault" is 100% a lie. A couple hundred people with sticks and a fire extinguisher can't "overthrow the US gov't", period. Stop lying you little weasel. 

[Caswell Thomas]

7 hours ago, WestCanMan said:

Your article cites:

1) some guns in a truck a few blocks away (ie, not at the capitol)

2) Some guns in a trailer a few blocks away (ie, not at the capitol)

3) Some plastic handcuffs

4) One taser

5) One person had a holstered pistol, there is no account of him brandishing it.

FYI if you want to count "their weapons that weren't in their possession" you could add butcher knives from their kitchen, hunting rifles inside of their gun locker, chainsaws in their garage, and maybe even some whips and double-dongs from their boudoir. 

Every time that 99% of Americans walk into a bank anywhere they're considered "armed" by your id10tic standard of "weapons within a few blocks of them".

So, exactly like I said before, "A couple hundred unarmed men almost overthrew the gov't!". You're such a god-damned liar. 

Um..your information is woefully out of date OR deliberate lies.  The MOST current information taken from court testimony, video cameras present and some from the Insurrectionists themselves , camera shot photos,  and specific testimony of Insurrectionists, and others who were there and attacked or merely observers, and reports taken from multiple cam shots from surveillance cameras in and outside the federal buildings, and bus drivers who actually brought some of the attackers and remained to watch;  the following weapons were brought and confiscated at the metal detectors but carried by Insurrectionists: 269 knives or bladed weapons, 242 canisters of pepper spray, 18 pairs of brass knuckles, 18 tasers, 30 blunt weapons such as steel batons.  In addition several police reported seeing 3 men from Broward County, Florida carrying AR-15 ( assault rifles), and there were reports of men with Glocks ( hand guns) and rifles near Constitution Avenue. In addition there were several more men from Florida who came with body armor, gas cylinders and assault rifles,  and a number of confiscated guns from individuals who were part of the attackers, and this doesn't include the thousands who refused to go through the Capitol metal detectors telling Capitol police they intended to keep what they brought and if they had gone through the detectors the Secret Service would have taken said items. So, again, what you hear on Truth Social is not the real truth. The real truth comes from EVIDENCE not hearsay. 

[WestCanMan]

9 minutes ago, Caswell Thomas said:

Um..your information is woefully out of date OR deliberate lies. 

Not my article, stupid. Read the thread.

And you're one of the biggest liars here so that means nothing coming from you. 

Quote

The MOST current information taken from court testimony, video cameras present and some from the Insurrectionists themselves , camera shot photos,  and specific testimony of Insurrectionists, and others who were there and attacked or merely observers, and reports taken from multiple cam shots from surveillance cameras in and outside the federal buildings, and bus drivers who actually brought some of the attackers and remained to watch;  the following weapons were brought and confiscated at the metal detectors but carried by Insurrectionists: 269 knives or bladed weapons, 242 canisters of pepper spray, 18 pairs of brass knuckles, 18 tasers, 30 blunt weapons such as steel batons. 

Buddy, how many cops were cut? How many were threatened with knives? How many of these "knives" were over 3" long? 

"30 blunt weapons such as steel batons" ? 

You lying stooge, that almost defnitely means "29 sticks that previously had protest signs on them, and one baton that someone took from a cop". 

Quote

and this doesn't include the thousands who refused to go through the Capitol metal detectors telling Capitol police they intended to keep what they brought and if they had gone through the detectors the Secret Service would have taken said items. So, again, what you hear on Truth Social is not the real truth. The real truth comes from EVIDENCE not hearsay. 

OMG you're a f'ing stooge. That's the exact definition of 'hearsay'. No one has evidence, some dudes just said it. 

CNN and the Dems have over a hundred thousand hours of video evidence to go through. They don't have ANY footage of knives or guns being used on cops, dummy. 

Are you trying to say that they all brought weapons but no one bothered to use them? Even if they did, that still means that "they almost overthrew the gov't bare-handed"... According to your BS narrative, that is. 

[BeaverFever]

So Jim Jordan’s bid failed amd now Tom Emmer’s failed due to GOP infighting. So that’s failure #3 for the Republicans who are absolutely insane mob of extremists.  I wish I could take glee in the utter chaos in the Republican cabal of lunatics but all of this really just foreshadows further disintegration of the American government and the worst is yet to come. 

[myata]

Why couldn't moderate Republicans find a compromise with Democrats and support Emmer? Isolating the lying mob with intelligent, bipartisan effort seems to be the only rational way forward. One cannot be afraid of what happens if Trump is nominated forever; the nomination would be a disaster for the Republican party and preventing it is the only chance GOP could retain sanity and a place in the democracy.

[Nationalist]

https://www.cnn.com/politics/live-news/house-speaker-vote-10-25-23/index.html

Gee...about as good of a choice as Jordan.

[Caswell Thomas]

20 hours ago, WestCanMan said:

Not my article, stupid. Read the thread.

And you're one of the biggest liars here so that means nothing coming from you. 

Buddy, how many cops were cut? How many were threatened with knives? How many of these "knives" were over 3" long? 

"30 blunt weapons such as steel batons" ? 

You lying stooge, that almost defnitely means "29 sticks that previously had protest signs on them, and one baton that someone took from a cop". 

OMG you're a f'ing stooge. That's the exact definition of 'hearsay'. No one has evidence, some dudes just said it. 

CNN and the Dems have over a hundred thousand hours of video evidence to go through. They don't have ANY footage of knives or guns being used on cops, dummy. 

Are you trying to say that they all brought weapons but no one bothered to use them? Even if they did, that still means that "they almost overthrew the gov't bare-handed"... According to your BS narrative, that is. 

No, what I SAID was that these were what was CONFISCATED from Trumps followers who gave them up rather than try to take them through the metal detectors and be arrested, it does not include the many seen in videos and in photos taken and posted by Insurrectionists themselves and sent to their audiences in  which some of those audiences promptly shared them with the FBI!  On your continual insulting remarks, say whatever the he'll you want, I don't find you threatening whatsoever. Stupid yes, threatening...no.

[WestCanMan]

20 minutes ago, Caswell Thomas said:

No, what I SAID was that these were what was CONFISCATED from Trumps followers who gave them up rather than try to take them through the metal detectors and be arrested, it does not include the many seen in videos and in photos taken and posted by Insurrectionists themselves and sent to their audiences in  which some of those audiences promptly shared them with the FBI!  On your continual insulting remarks, say whatever the he'll you want, I don't find you threatening whatsoever. Stupid yes, threatening...no.

OMG, who cares if some people had some pocket knives?

DO YOU HAVE VIDEO OF PEOPLE USING THEM? WERE ANY COPS CUT, OR THREATENED WITH KNIVES? 

IF NOT, THEN THEY WERE EFFECTIVELY "UNARMED"! 

And this is 240 people out of 2,000 who strolled around there. 

By YOUR OWN info, 240 people had small pocket knives and the only way that we even know is "they handed them over at security during the f'ing so-called insurrection". 

You're so stupid that your mom should go to jail. She definitely did something wrong raising you. 

[Legato]

21 hours ago, Caswell Thomas said:

Um..your information is woefully out of date OR deliberate lies.  The MOST current information taken from court testimony, video cameras present and some from the Insurrectionists themselves , camera shot photos,  and specific testimony of Insurrectionists, and others who were there and attacked or merely observers, and reports taken from multiple cam shots from surveillance cameras in and outside the federal buildings, and bus drivers who actually brought some of the attackers and remained to watch;  the following weapons were brought and confiscated at the metal detectors but carried by Insurrectionists: 269 knives or bladed weapons, 242 canisters of pepper spray, 18 pairs of brass knuckles, 18 tasers, 30 blunt weapons such as steel batons.  In addition several police reported seeing 3 men from Broward County, Florida carrying AR-15 ( assault rifles), and there were reports of men with Glocks ( hand guns) and rifles near Constitution Avenue. In addition there were several more men from Florida who came with body armor, gas cylinders and assault rifles,  and a number of confiscated guns from individuals who were part of the attackers, and this doesn't include the thousands who refused to go through the Capitol metal detectors telling Capitol police they intended to keep what they brought and if they had gone through the detectors the Secret Service would have taken said items. So, again, what you hear on Truth Social is not the real truth. The real truth comes from EVIDENCE not hearsay. 

You forgot the ten green bottles hanging on the wall

[Aristides]

6 hours ago, myata said:

Why couldn't moderate Republicans find a compromise with Democrats and support Emmer? Isolating the lying mob with intelligent, bipartisan effort seems to be the only rational way forward. One cannot be afraid of what happens if Trump is nominated forever; the nomination would be a disaster for the Republican party and preventing it is the only chance GOP could retain sanity and a place in the democracy.

Emmer was disqualified by the anti democracy party because he voted to certify the election.

[myata]

Was difficult to imagine that a founding party of democracy would now welcome undermining the elections third-world dictator style. Oh well, the entropy always runs its course guessing.

[Nationalist]

On 10/24/2023 at 7:52 PM, Caswell Thomas said:

Um..your information is woefully out of date OR deliberate lies.  The MOST current information taken from court testimony, video cameras present and some from the Insurrectionists themselves , camera shot photos,  and specific testimony of Insurrectionists, and others who were there and attacked or merely observers, and reports taken from multiple cam shots from surveillance cameras in and outside the federal buildings, and bus drivers who actually brought some of the attackers and remained to watch;  the following weapons were brought and confiscated at the metal detectors but carried by Insurrectionists: 269 knives or bladed weapons, 242 canisters of pepper spray, 18 pairs of brass knuckles, 18 tasers, 30 blunt weapons such as steel batons.  In addition several police reported seeing 3 men from Broward County, Florida carrying AR-15 ( assault rifles), and there were reports of men with Glocks ( hand guns) and rifles near Constitution Avenue. In addition there were several more men from Florida who came with body armor, gas cylinders and assault rifles,  and a number of confiscated guns from individuals who were part of the attackers, and this doesn't include the thousands who refused to go through the Capitol metal detectors telling Capitol police they intended to keep what they brought and if they had gone through the detectors the Secret Service would have taken said items. So, again, what you hear on Truth Social is not the real truth. The real truth comes from EVIDENCE not hearsay. 

Just out of curiosity...if these objects were confiscated...why do you insist they were armed at the protest?

[Caswell Thomas]

8 hours ago, Nationalist said:

Just out of curiosity...if these objects were confiscated...why do you insist they were armed at the protest?

To BE "confiscated" they had to have been brought to the Insurrection with intent to use. Otherwise, when told they would be arrested , they wouldn't have given them up. Even so, many of those who gave up those weapons, improvised with items grabbed from smashed barricades, from wrecked news media equipment, and from stuff brought through the barriers by those who went around the metal detectors instead of through them. Several groups were armed with multiple firing firearms including assault rifles, hand guns, one even had a crossbow!