I don't give a damn about truth and reconciliation

[Dougie93]

1 hour ago, myata said:

It may have been wrong. Even terrible. But I have not done it. And I have no affiliation to the bureaucracy that was responsible for it, and perpetrated it.

it was a classic case of the overbearing Canadian nanny police state run amok

now this same overbearing nanny police state presents itself as the solution to the problem

this is the deep seated structural flaw of Canadian governance, the source of all dysfunction & injustice

there's just way too much government in Canada, way too much intervention by the state

and it inevitably gets up to no good, trying to justify itself as the solution to all problems

[I am Groot]

13 hours ago, BeaverFever said:

How about I burn down your house and then pay you a $100 settlement AFTER FIGHTING YOU IN COURT FOR DECADES and losing then claim that fact that I paid you anything was proof of my generosity even thou I was forced to pay settlement you, then I call you greedy and ungrateful for not being satisfied with your $100 dollars then say “if that $100 is useless can I have the money back?”

What a hyperbole-laden woke rant. Are you really that oblivious to history? I mean, just to start with they had no houses to burn down. Building houses was not within their means any more than the wheel. Native bands routinely attacked and slaughtered each other, stole their lands, raped their women, and tortured their men to death. Land belonged to those who could take it and hold it. So it was throughout the world through all of history. Why you weepy lefties insist on trying to portray Britain's relatively benign colonization here as something shocking and horrific with consequences that must endure for centuries is beyond me other than gross stupidity and self-dramatization.

We're in today. The natives should simply be told they're lucky enough to be citizens of Canada. All reservations closed, all money sent to natives eliminated. They can move into the cities and towns and work like the rest of us.

 

[I am Groot]

15 hours ago, eyeball said:

And if that's the standard by which nations exist or cease to exist it amounts to a licence to invade us. No compensation or anything required.

That has been the standard for the entire existence of mankind until very recently. Nor is it exactly something put to bed, as Russia so ably demonstrates. In historical terms, this country would never exist. We have no defenses and are uninterested in erecting any. We are undefended and refuse to defend ourselves. We exist on the suffrage of a more enlightened age. For now.

[I am Groot]

12 hours ago, herbie said:

FTFY Groot. Say it like you really want to. Tell us how some guy on the rez has so much more rights and opportunity than 'normal' Canadians... how you're the one suffering from discrimination.

The dishonesty of the Left is so great they even lie to themselves. Perhaps that's the only way they can justify their hatred and intolerance. They have to exaggerate or 'interpret' or simply lie about what others believe in order to properly demonize them and so ignore their opinions and wishes. It's why the Left no longer supports freedom of any kind. Freedom is anathema to their demand that everyone think, talk, speak and act like they do.

[myata]

3 hours ago, Dougie93 said:

it was a classic case of the overbearing Canadian nanny police state run amok

now this same overbearing nanny police state presents itself as the solution to the problem

Exactly. The bureaucracy messed it up (as it messes up pretty much anything the difference is only in the severity, mildly mediocre or a total bust. So it has to be held responsible. Not me: no. Don't even begin that song of collective responsibility for your, single-handedly made and executed flaws and failures.

You wanted to rule like the kings of old, with no checks none of controls and zero accountability? You have it, courtesy of the sleepy populace. But with it comes singular and attributed responsibility. Didn't know? Forgot? Your problem. Nothing to do with me. So go back to your board and call when you've figured it out.

[myata]

On 9/29/2023 at 2:27 PM, Army Guy said:

Maybe one day someone will come along with solutions instead of dance parties.

True as well. The system they made and keep for themselves leaves very little space and virtually no incentives for real working solutions to complex problems of a modern society. Singing propaganda songs and throwing loads of public's money at useless but pretty posters is so much easier (fact) and does all they need there (another). Can't go against the entropy.

[Dougie93]

1 minute ago, myata said:

You wanted to rule like the kings of old, with no checks none of controls and zero accountability?

Canada is a 19th century Victorian institution

deeply ingrained with the Victorian Missionary Impulse

the Nanny in the Canadian nanny police state is Queen Victoria, even unto this day

this leads to a paternalistic culture of governance, which infantilizes the population therein

the Canadian National Parent is going to run your life for you, even if she smothers you to death in the attempt

[CdnFox]

21 hours ago, herbie said:

No, those that don't give a shit about other people are a$$holes, sociopaths by legal definition

those who pretend to give a shit for virtue points are even worse. And that actually would be closer to what a sociopath is.

As for the first nations - there's an old saying:

"The best way to enslave a man is to provide for his every need. "

Once you do that, pretty quick they can't survive without you. So if you REALLY actually gave a crap about the first nations you'd realize the kindest thing we could possibly do is cut them off and let them sink or swim on their own. Ignore ANY reference to 'Da Past" and demand they only talk about 'The Future" that they want to build for themselves.

Then we can help as they start walking that path. Being professional victims is a one way ticket to slavery.

 

[herbie]

3 hours ago, I am Groot said:

The dishonesty of the Left is so great they even lie to themselves. Perhaps that's the only way they can justify their hatred and intolerance. They have to exaggerate or 'interpret' or simply lie about what others believe in order to properly demonize them and so ignore their opinions and wishes. It's why the Left no longer supports freedom of any kind. Freedom is anathema to their demand that everyone think, talk, speak and act like they do

You're referring to the Freedumb to promote and encourage stereo-types and racist views? You didn't counter my claim, you came back with the No! No! YOU'RE the racist argument just like I pointed out.
Guess you'll have to vote for your hero:

[I am Groot]

1 hour ago, herbie said:

You're referring to the Freedumb to promote and encourage stereo-types and racist views? You didn't counter my claim, you came back with the No! No! YOU'RE the racist argument just like I pointed out.
Guess you'll have to vote for your hero:

I agree with what he said. And I don't always.

Everyone I know who has spoken about reservations have talked about how their views and values are shaped by generations on welfare. With rights should come responsibilities. Learn some self-responsibility, learn to work hard, and you'll gain more self-respect than standing around with your hand out whining about what a victim you are.

 

[Zeitgeist]

6 hours ago, I am Groot said:

What a hyperbole-laden woke rant. Are you really that oblivious to history? I mean, just to start with they had no houses to burn down. Building houses was not within their means any more than the wheel. Native bands routinely attacked and slaughtered each other, stole their lands, raped their women, and tortured their men to death. Land belonged to those who could take it and hold it. So it was throughout the world through all of history. Why you weepy lefties insist on trying to portray Britain's relatively benign colonization here as something shocking and horrific with consequences that must endure for centuries is beyond me other than gross stupidity and self-dramatization.

We're in today. The natives should simply be told they're lucky enough to be citizens of Canada. All reservations closed, all money sent to natives eliminated. They can move into the cities and towns and work like the rest of us.

 

Well the Americans handled it more that way.  They defeated them, said, “We won” and “accept these terms.” Most American natives are proud Americans.  It seems that many Canadian natives aren’t proud of Canada, even though the Hurons fought alongside the French and the Iroquois alongside the English, and even though the Brits supported Tecumseh in the plan to create a native territory in the Ohio valley against the Manifest Destiny Americans.  Also remember that the Northwest tribes held more slaves than any colonial group held in Canada, where slavery was quickly banned.  There was no bounty killing of natives as there was in America.  Obviously Canada treated natives with greater kindness, thankfully, than the Americans, but we also tried the progressive (at that time) education approach, and we know how that worked out.

The leftist activist courts are handling land claims and the federal government is throwing billions of dollars in reparations at Indigenous, yet the Canadian government is called genocidal and colonial by native and liberal lobbyists constantly.  Once you lay down and act as the soft touch as Trudeau has been on native affairs, expect to be trampled and hated. Clearly throwing more money and government provisions at groups that don’t pay into these supports isn’t working.  

Edited October 1, 2023 by Zeitgeist

[herbie]

5 hours ago, I am Groot said:

Everyone I know who has spoken about reservations have talked about how their views and values are shaped by generations on welfare

Cuz obviously not one of them was native. Your views have formed from chats with fellow white whiners that never associated with 'those people' either.
How many more negative stereotypes you gonna remind us of? You seem to believe those are helping you make your case. They're making mine, that you are blind to your own bigotry.

[taxesanddeath]

On 9/29/2023 at 9:26 AM, Michael Hardner said:

People who don't care about past wrongs sure seem to love past rights...

Either forget all the past or none of it.  Stop selecting past events that you care about.  Stop trying to feel good about history and instead look at it to illuminate the present.

Happy Truth and Reconcilliation Day to those who celebrate.

C'mon, we don't have to care, it is personal feeling , not our duties, in the end, this should not be our cross, of course, we need to LEARN from it

[eyeball]

23 hours ago, I am Groot said:

That has been the standard for the entire existence of mankind until very recently. Nor is it exactly something put to bed, as Russia so ably demonstrates.

Recently being when we brought our evolving justice system with us when we invaded.  We've been hoisting ourselves on our own petard ever since.  It's a slow process but is happening as ably demonstrated by the internationaal resistance to Russia's invasion of Ukraine.

Of course it'll be a three steps forward two steps back process as demonstrated by the timidity of those who fear change.

Quote

In historical terms, this country would never exist. We have no defenses and are uninterested in erecting any. We are undefended and refuse to defend ourselves. We exist on the suffrage of a more enlightened age. For now.

Then now is the time to seize the moment and spread that enlightenment as far as possible.  Yes it will still take a couple more centuries but it is happening and it'll result in a much stronger defence than any conventional defence we could erect. 

[blackbird]

Sadly many people in Manitoba are deceived by the woke left.  Manitobans are electing the next government tomorrow and the media is reporting the NDP may be in the lead.  The NDP led by a red power native is promising to search the landfill even it it costs 184 million dollars and risk the health of searchers.   What for?  184 million dollars could build a lot of homes on native reserves and build a lot of clean water systems.  But the FN red power activists don't care or concern themselves about things like that.  They are more interested in creating a false impression of moral superiority by protesting and demanding the government search the landfill site at any costs.  Such is the woke left politics in Manitoba and many people have fallen for it.  The left will get what they deserve;  more government money wasted, more taxes and a lower standard of living.  The trouble with this kind of democracy is those with more common sense who reject this red power woke nonsense will also suffer financially in this new world of wokeness.

Edited October 2, 2023 by blackbird

[I am Groot]

On 10/1/2023 at 10:28 PM, herbie said:

Cuz obviously not one of them was native. Your views have formed from chats with fellow white whiners that never associated with 'those people' either.
How many more negative stereotypes you gonna remind us of? You seem to believe those are helping you make your case. They're making mine, that you are blind to your own bigotry.

Might surprise you but just about everyone I know who's been on or near reservations (except one guy) is pretty damned liberal. But they're not blind to what they can see. I mean, speaking about blindness, it's you guys on the far left who insist it's wrong to notice things. Don't look at the most wanted list and see 90% black and brown faces and think... "Uhm, hey?". Don't notice that the most violent, crime-ridden places in Canada aren't the big cities but the smaller places nearest reservations. And whatever you do, when you goobers on the left are sniveling about all the missing and murdered native women don't point out that's largely at the hands of native men.

 

 

[August1991]

On 9/30/2023 at 4:08 PM, WestCanMan said:

My point is that the topic of residential schools is an exercise in propagating blatantly racist disinformation...

 

And how is that different from what is happening now? Is the federal government treating natives any differently?

====

What has struck me about slavery is that families were separated. At the time, mothers and fathers -people in love- were separated.

True, this happens now.

 

Edited October 4, 2023 by August1991

[CdnFox]

7 hours ago, August1991 said:

And how is that different from what is happening now? Is the federal government treating natives any differently?

====

What has struck me about slavery is that families were separated. At the time, mothers and fathers -people in love- were separated.

True, this happens now.

 

So you're saying what the first nations are going through now is the same as slavery.

Well - i think we can pretty much say your credibility is out the window.

[Nefarious Banana]

Manitoba's done  . . . .  welfare province now.  Double whammy.  NDP/FN basket case . . . .

[CdnFox]

1 hour ago, Nefarious Banana said:

Manitoba's done  . . . .  welfare province now.  Double whammy.  NDP/FN basket case . . . .

Yeah - that might turn out to be 4 tough years.

[eyeball]

On 10/3/2023 at 6:52 PM, I am Groot said:

Don't notice that the most violent, crime-ridden places in Canada aren't the big cities but the smaller places nearest reservations.

Hmmm. I've lived a 1/4 mile from a rez for 50 years. There's no violent crime riddening going on here. We rarely lock our doors.  My kids rode outnumbered five to one by native kids on the school bus from kindergarten on thru high school.  No gangs, no bullying, no violence...just kids being kids.

On 10/3/2023 at 6:52 PM, I am Groot said:

I mean, speaking about blindness, it's you guys on the far left who insist it's wrong to notice things

What I notice most about you is how wrong your notions are about how universally horrible and dangerous life is on or near a reserve.

I can only imagine what you imagine happens to property values near a reserve. I bought and built my place for around $90,000 and probably put that much into it again renovating since the kids moved out and its assessed at $1.3 million now. Livability here is huge...envied in fact.

[I am Groot]

10 hours ago, eyeball said:

Hmmm. I've lived a 1/4 mile from a rez for 50 years. There's no violent crime riddening going on here.

Here are the most violent places in Canada:

			Overall		Violent crime		Non-violent crime
CITY / TOWN		POP.	CSI	% CHNG	CSI	% CHNG	CSI	% CHNG
Pelican Narrows	SK	2,133	1,002.6	+7.0%	2,019.3	+7.8%	604.7	+5.9%
Nisichawayasihk (Nelson House)	MB	11,198	1,007.7	+35.9%	1,500.2	-3.3%	819.4	+93.4%
La Loche	SK	2,009	1,034.4	+0.4%	1,476.7	+22.0%	866.3	-10.4%
Cumberland House	SK	4,190	790.5	+46.4%	1,310.0	+71.3%	589.6	+29.7%
Black Lake	SK	3,266	1,237.2	-5.3%	1,107.4	-26.4%	1,299.5	+4.9%
Sheshatshiu	NL	1,049	875.4	-22.5%	1,055.5	-24.9%	810.8	-21.2%
Thompson	MB	12,329	531.4	+17.3%	991.6	+31.6%	352.0	+4.5%
La Ronge	SK	5,317	631.3	+12.9%	971.2	+13.8%	500.8	+12.3%
Lac Seul	ON	3,452	489.9	-25.5%	902.0	-39.2%	329.4	-1.2%
Cambridge Bay	NU	1,403	486.3	-19.4%	835.8	-31.6%	350.7	-3.0%
Rankin Inlet	NU	2,698	444.5	+18.4%	676.4	+26.1%	355.6	+13.2%
Iqaluit	NU	6,991	562.5	+3.1%	673.7	+21.5%	522.8	-4.4%
Manawan	QC	1,597	278.7	-85.8%	655.7	-80.7%	130.3	-90.7%
Elk Point	AB	1,394	355.1	-32.1%	563.9	-40.4%	274.6	-23.3%
High Level

 

https://canadacrimeindex.com/crime-severity-index?sort=violent_crime_severity_index&min_population=0&province=

10 hours ago, eyeball said:

What I notice most about you is how wrong your notions are about how universally horrible and dangerous life is on or near a reserve.

Uh huh

Edited October 5, 2023 by I am Groot

[Zeitgeist]

11 hours ago, eyeball said:

Hmmm. I've lived a 1/4 mile from a rez for 50 years. There's no violent crime riddening going on here. We rarely lock our doors.  My kids rode outnumbered five to one by native kids on the school bus from kindergarten on thru high school.  No gangs, no bullying, no violence...just kids being kids.

What I notice most about you is how wrong your notions are about how universally horrible and dangerous life is on or near a reserve.

I can only imagine what you imagine happens to property values near a reserve. I bought and built my place for around $90,000 and probably put that much into it again renovating since the kids moved out and its assessed at $1.3 million now. Livability here is huge...envied in fact.

I bet.  There are some very wealthy reservations out west. Which is it though, are the rezes down and out with water advisories or are they prosperous?  In Ontario the ones in the south seem very comfortable.  Nice also not to have to pay taxes or buy property.  Free higher education and medical care are also seldom mentioned.  I know there are problems on some reservations.  I don’t think the situation is especially good or bad for most natives.  I do think that special status with benefits is a moral hazard.  Any kind of subsidized set up that requires little of people and doesn’t encourage people to be self-made is generally stultifying.  

Edited October 5, 2023 by Zeitgeist

[eyeball]

3 hours ago, I am Groot said:

Here are the most violent places in Canada:

			Overall		Violent crime		Non-violent crime
CITY / TOWN		POP.	CSI	% CHNG	CSI	% CHNG	CSI	% CHNG
Pelican Narrows	SK	2,133	1,002.6	+7.0%	2,019.3	+7.8%	604.7	+5.9%
Nisichawayasihk (Nelson House)	MB	11,198	1,007.7	+35.9%	1,500.2	-3.3%	819.4	+93.4%
La Loche	SK	2,009	1,034.4	+0.4%	1,476.7	+22.0%	866.3	-10.4%
Cumberland House	SK	4,190	790.5	+46.4%	1,310.0	+71.3%	589.6	+29.7%
Black Lake	SK	3,266	1,237.2	-5.3%	1,107.4	-26.4%	1,299.5	+4.9%
Sheshatshiu	NL	1,049	875.4	-22.5%	1,055.5	-24.9%	810.8	-21.2%
Thompson	MB	12,329	531.4	+17.3%	991.6	+31.6%	352.0	+4.5%
La Ronge	SK	5,317	631.3	+12.9%	971.2	+13.8%	500.8	+12.3%
Lac Seul	ON	3,452	489.9	-25.5%	902.0	-39.2%	329.4	-1.2%
Cambridge Bay	NU	1,403	486.3	-19.4%	835.8	-31.6%	350.7	-3.0%
Rankin Inlet	NU	2,698	444.5	+18.4%	676.4	+26.1%	355.6	+13.2%
Iqaluit	NU	6,991	562.5	+3.1%	673.7	+21.5%	522.8	-4.4%
Manawan	QC	1,597	278.7	-85.8%	655.7	-80.7%	130.3	-90.7%
Elk Point	AB	1,394	355.1	-32.1%	563.9	-40.4%	274.6	-23.3%
High Level

 

https://canadacrimeindex.com/crime-severity-index?sort=violent_crime_severity_index&min_population=0&province=

Uh huh

What kind of treaties do they have in these places?  $10 says they're old, inadequate, unfulfilled and need to be renegotiated.

[eyeball]

2 hours ago, Zeitgeist said:

I bet.  There are some very wealthy reservations out west. Which is it though, are the rezes down and out with water advisories or are they prosperous? In Ontario the ones in the south seem very comfortable.  

Prosperous for the most part, especially the ones that have signed treaties.

Quote

Nice also not to have to pay taxes or buy property.  Free higher education and medical care are also seldom mentioned.  

It's true they can't take out a mortgage against a house on a 1st Nations village but who says they can't buy property? We all have free health care and I think higher education should be free for everyone too. 

Quote

AI know there are problems on some reservations. I don’t think the situation is especially good or bad for most natives. I do think that special status with benefits is a moral hazard. Any kind of subsidized set up that requires little of people and doesn’t encourage people to be self-made is generally stultifying. 

Well, come talk to me after we strip the 1% of all the subsidies, special status and benefits they receive.