Poilievre: "Trudeau should butt out and let parents raise their kids."

[Canadian_Cavalier]

Pierre has spoken about the recent protests.

In my opinion, it's a very good decision. Pierre has distanced himself and the CPC from the most radical "anti-trans" elements of these protests that most Canadians likely will not accept while affirming that parents should be able to raise their kids how they want, which is widely supported across the country.

The bottom line is: When you let the government raise kids instead of parents, you get Residential Schools. That's something leftists should really think about...

[Moonlight Graham]

No, send your children to school so the government can wipe out your home culture.  The government rules over children under 16.

Jordan Peterson's fears over adding gender identity to human rights legislation have been proven accurate again and again.  This is the result, and they'll hide behind the law to legitimate their actions.  I get that they want to be inclusive to trans kids and support them, but parents also have rights.

Hopefully schools don't consider inviting men dressed in drag to dance sexy stripper moves at school assemblies and inside kindergarten classrooms for the tots:  https://twitter.com/MagiruMevin/status/1701366122417991743

 

Edited September 23, 2023 by Moonlight Graham

[ExFlyer]

1 hour ago, Canadian_Cavalier said:

Pierre has spoken about the recent protests.

In my opinion, it's a very good decision. Pierre has distanced himself and the CPC from the most radical "anti-trans" elements of these protests that most Canadians likely will not accept while affirming that parents should be able to raise their kids how they want, which is widely supported across the country.

The bottom line is: .....

Except that the New Brunswick government that is pushing this is conservative.

[Canadian_Cavalier]

Just now, ExFlyer said:

Except that the New Brunswick government that is pushing this is conservative.

He spoke out in support of Premier Higgs. I guess I could've worded that better. Informing parents about what gender their kids have become isn't radical.

[ExFlyer]

13 minutes ago, Canadian_Cavalier said:

He spoke out in support of Premier Higgs. I guess I could've worded that better. Informing parents about what gender their kids have become isn't radical.

So, he supports NB stand? So does Trudeau.

[CdnFox]

6 minutes ago, ExFlyer said:

So, he supports NB stand? So does Trudeau.

i think what he supports more is leaving up to the parents and provinces to deal with and not getting involved in provincial responsibilities or parental rights.  Which is probably the right attitude.

[Canadian_Cavalier]

6 minutes ago, ExFlyer said:

So, he supports NB stand? So does Trudeau.

Do you live on another planet? Trudeau has been fighting to restrict parental rights.

[TreeBeard]

1 hour ago, Canadian_Cavalier said:

Do you live on another planet? Trudeau has been fighting to restrict parental rights.

Isn’t education a provincial responsibility?  How does Trudeau play into this?

[CdnFox]

53 minutes ago, TreeBeard said:

Isn’t education a provincial responsibility?  How does Trudeau play into this?

Well that's the million dollar question, but he certainly feels he does.

[Canadian_Cavalier]

2 hours ago, TreeBeard said:

Isn’t education a provincial responsibility?  How does Trudeau play into this?

You're right that it is, but if you look at the original tweet of his Poilievre responded to, he clearly nodded in support for the counter-protestors. Whenever this issue emerges, Trudeau always makes that kind of statement. It isn't random.

[eyeball]

3 hours ago, TreeBeard said:

Isn’t education a provincial responsibility?  How does Trudeau play into this?

Parents are also perfectly free to take responsibility and teach their kids at home or form private schools with their own kind if they want.  They can probably even get funding. 

[Moonlight Graham]

1 hour ago, eyeball said:

Parents are also perfectly free to take responsibility and teach their kids at home or form private schools with their own kind if they want.  They can probably even get funding. 

That's right.  Someone can form their own private schools that don't have basic parental consent rights and send their kids there.  At public schools the state shouldn't be withholding parental consent from minors under 16.

[ExFlyer]

12 hours ago, Canadian_Cavalier said:

Do you live on another planet? Trudeau has been fighting to restrict parental rights.

Huh??

Did you imagine that or was that a wish???

Trudeau is leaving it up to the provinces, which have the authority in education and to the parents.

Bottom line is NB conservatives have the issue.

Edited September 23, 2023 by ExFlyer

[Michael Hardner]

8 hours ago, eyeball said:

Parents are also perfectly free to take responsibility and teach their kids at home or form private schools with their own kind if they want.  They can probably even get funding. 

They're also free to keep their kids home sometimes.

 

All of this posturing and posing by Federal politicians should be rejected by an informed public.

[OftenWrong]

29 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

They're also free to keep their kids home sometimes.

 

All of this posturing and posing by Federal politicians should be rejected by an informed public.

Quite sure it's mandatory to give all children in Canada an education. Parents are allowed to teach at home or make their own private school, but it has to meet provincial standards. You have to teach the curriculum.

I think that's all parents are asking teachers to do here. Stop this extra-curricular stuff.

Also that no adult should have a secret with any child that their parents don't know about.

 

[Zeitgeist]

15 hours ago, ExFlyer said:

Except that the New Brunswick government that is pushing this is conservative.

The New Brunswick government pushed for the basic right of parent approval for name and pronouns changes for their kids.  It actually gave up this battle, as the activist social workers and child and youth workers can continue to make secret arrangements with kids behind parents’ backs.  It’s too late for family life in Canada.  The state is raising and renaming your kids.  If you push back, the Children’s Aid Society or courts can scoop your kids like they infamously did with native kids.

The other day a friend of mine transferred her kids to another school in Ontario.  The first question the administration asked her kids, without asking the parent, was, “How do you identify?   What pronouns do you use?” The presumption was that this was their highest priority and it didn’t involve parents.  Dress it up however you want, (pun intended), raising such questions with kids is leading.  It assumes agreement with the highly contestable idea that one can change one’s gender through language and that it’s no big deal and is actually advisable to have this explicitly offered by the school. It’s offensive to at least have the population and has no clear basis in science.  It violates the religious beliefs of millions, which is unconstitutional.

Introducing such ideas to children adds confusion to an already confusing time of life as natural hormones kick in and kids transition to adulthood.  Most kids have a hard enough time working through these natural changes and understanding what’s happening in their bodies.  There should be massive class action law suits against school boards and governments that push this ideology in schools.  It has nothing to do with accepting trans kids.  If kids start talking about being another gender without prompting or questioning from educators, they should listen and assure them that they have time to think through how they feel and what they want.  Parents should be part of that conversation unless there’s reason to suspect abuse.  Most parents take more of an interest in their own kids’ well-being than anyone else.  Of course!

Edited September 23, 2023 by Zeitgeist

[Michael Hardner]

8 minutes ago, OftenWrong said:

1. Quite sure it's mandatory to give all children in Canada an education.
2. Parents are allowed to teach at home or make their own private school, but it has to meet provincial standards. You have to teach the curriculum.
3. I think that's all parents are asking teachers to do here. Stop this extra-curricular stuff
4. Also that no adult should have a secret with any child that their parents don't know about.

 

1. I said "sometimes" not all the time.
2.I did a one-minute Google check: BC, Alberta, Saskatchewan, Manitoba, Ontario and Nunavut allow you to opt out of sex ed.  I stopped there and didn't look further.
3. It's so unspecific and un-informed and the message from the marchers so so blurry as to be meaningless.  They want "SOGI out of education" ... what does that mean then ?  Could mean anything.  Furthermore most parents are ok with most of what is taught and only want tweaks.  The march absolutely exists on things being unclear both in the perceptions of the participants and the message being conveyed.
4. something like 85% of parents support being informed of children's choices on prounouns etc.  I would also ask them to include counselling in that meeting.  But the support at that level would mean a majority of NDP and Liberal parents too.  The controversy is much smaller than it would seem.  As for "any secret" ... some of that isn't in the education system.  If a 16 year old girl asks a teacher how she can have an abortion the teacher has to respect the legal rights to the child to privacy as far as I know.

I do appreciate that I'm learning a lot about the system via this process, but the anger is aggravating when you consider that it's largely based on misinformation and not directed anywhere that can make change.... sometimes directed at calling people 'groomers' for doing their jobs.  That's disgusting to me and makes me want to give the marchers no quarter.

[blackbird]

The Central Okanogan School Board has a webpage describing their policy on SOGI 123 (Sexual Orientation and Gender Identity).  

They state "Informing people about the experience of someone else will not make them gay or straight, since these are not choices. As children mature, they will self-identify on their own terms about whether they are gay, lesbian, straight, bisexual, or transgender –"

Right there they tell the biggest lie or falsehood, however you wish to view it.  They claim being gay or straight is not a choice.  This is completely false.  There is no scientific proof that people are born gay.  There are no gay genes or DNA.  It is absolutely a choice.  The reasons why it is chosen may be unclear, but the idea people are born this way is a complete myth which is widely believed and propagated.  It is the underlying excuse that backs up the brainwashing of kids in schools.  The onus is not on me or any citizen to prove them wrong.  The onus is on the people who are forcing this agenda on society to prove what they are doing is legitimate.  Lying is not proof of anything.

Edited September 23, 2023 by blackbird

[Zeitgeist]

12 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

1. I said "sometimes" not all the time.
2.I did a one-minute Google check: BC, Alberta, Saskatchewan, Manitoba, Ontario and Nunavut allow you to opt out of sex ed.  I stopped there and didn't look further.
3. It's so unspecific and un-informed and the message from the marchers so so blurry as to be meaningless.  They want "SOGI out of education" ... what does that mean then ?  Could mean anything.  Furthermore most parents are ok with most of what is taught and only want tweaks.  The march absolutely exists on things being unclear both in the perceptions of the participants and the message being conveyed.
4. something like 85% of parents support being informed of children's choices on prounouns etc.  I would also ask them to include counselling in that meeting.  But the support at that level would mean a majority of NDP and Liberal parents too.  The controversy is much smaller than it would seem.  As for "any secret" ... some of that isn't in the education system.  If a 16 year old girl asks a teacher how she can have an abortion the teacher has to respect the legal rights to the child to privacy as far as I know.

I do appreciate that I'm learning a lot about the system via this process, but the anger is aggravating when you consider that it's largely based on misinformation and not directed anywhere that can make change.... sometimes directed at calling people 'groomers' for doing their jobs.  That's disgusting to me and makes me want to give the marchers no quarter.

What makes you think most parents are okay with SOGI?  The polls say otherwise.

Hardner, I think you’re in league with groomers, perhaps unwittingly.

 I agree that if a 16 year old girl comes to a teacher and asks, “How do I get an abortion?”, medical privacy protects that disclosure.  However, if the teacher then answers the question with a direction on where to go to get an abortion, now the educator is overstepping boundaries by playing the role of medical practitioner and moral or immoral (depending on your beliefs) guide.  As an educator I would say that the decision to have an abortion is one made by the person choosing to get or not get an abortion, no one else’s.  Getting an abortion as a procedure is something one goes to a hospital or doctor to get.  It’s got zero to do with the school, unless of course it’s a religious school that has a specific and constitutionally protected religious perspective.  

Edited September 23, 2023 by Zeitgeist

[blackbird]

48 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

2.I did a one-minute Google check: BC, Alberta, Saskatchewan, Manitoba, Ontario and Nunavut allow you to opt out of sex ed.  I stopped there and didn't look further.

This is clearly false.  I am not sure what you mean by "sex ed", but the SOGI 123 curriculum (sexual orientation and gender identity) is mandatory in B.C. by the Ministry of Education.

Sexual Orientation and Gender Identity (SOGI) in schools | BC Gov News

 

Edited September 23, 2023 by blackbird

[Nexii]

31 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

What makes you think most parents are okay with SOGI?  The polls say otherwise.

Hardner, I think you’re in league with groomers, perhaps unwittingly.

 I agree that if a 16 year old girl comes to a teacher and asks, “How do I get an abortion?”, medical privacy protects that disclosure.  However, if the teacher then answers the question with a direction on where to go to get an abortion, now the educator is overstepping boundaries by playing the role of medical practitioner and moral or immoral (depending on your beliefs) guide.  As an educator I would say that the decision to have an abortion is one made by the person choosing to get or not get an abortion, no one else’s.  Getting an abortion as a procedure is something one goes to a hospital or doctor to get.  It’s got zero to do with the school, unless of course it’s a religious school that has a specific and constitutionally protected religious perspective.  

I feel there's probably something wrong with SOGI given the big gap between support for affirmation (80%) and the curriculum (50%). If anything I would expect these numbers to be flipped.

I don't see why sex ed courses can't just be optional courses available at various ages? Why do they have to be part of the core curriculum? I was always kind of mixed on them as a young teen. To be honest, it's kinda awkward being taught this stuff by someone who isn't a relative. And by the age you get to the course you already know most of it. 

[CdnFox]

2 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

2.I did a one-minute Google check: BC, Alberta, Saskatchewan, Manitoba, Ontario and Nunavut allow you to opt out of sex ed.  I stopped there and didn't look further.

But not 'pride day events' unless you keep your kids home, and they will discuss 'gender issues' outside of sex ed classes.

It is EXTREMELY disingenuous of you to suggest that somehow being able to opt out of sex ed means that the kids won't get taught the same things under another class name. Many of the more "graphic" books come up in english class for example.

[Zeitgeist]

1 hour ago, Nexii said:

I feel there's probably something wrong with SOGI given the big gap between support for affirmation (80%) and the curriculum (50%). If anything I would expect these numbers to be flipped.

I don't see why sex ed courses can't just be optional courses available at various ages? Why do they have to be part of the core curriculum? I was always kind of mixed on them as a young teen. To be honest, it's kinda awkward being taught this stuff by someone who isn't a relative. And by the age you get to the course you already know most of it. 

I think that the essentials are teaching young people what they need to know to protect themselves against predators and to know the consequences of sex in terms of STDs and pregnancy. That means knowing the reproductive systems and cycle, particularly what ovulation is, when it occurs, and how pregnancy happens. Kids should know to how to avoid predatory behaviour and how to report it at an early age.  They only need to know the reproductive information just before the age at which reproduction can occur.  STD information can come at the same time.  Everything to do with gender expression and the variety of sexual proclivities can be left for later ages. Some would say 18, others 16.  I’d say for sure it should stay out of elementary school and the adolescent hormonal changes of gr. 6-10.  The senior years of high school are probably fine in Health and Phys. Ed. curriculum, but it’s hard to leave out value judgements that violate personal views.  Scientific description, and where there isn’t clear consensus, presenting different perspectives, is important. 

Edited September 23, 2023 by Zeitgeist

[Michael Hardner]

2 hours ago, Zeitgeist said:

1. What makes you think most parents are okay with SOGI?  The polls say otherwise.

2. Hardner, I think you’re in league with groomers, perhaps unwittingly.

3. I agree that if a 16 year old girl comes to a teacher and asks, “How do I get an abortion?”, medical privacy protects that disclosure.  However, if the teacher then answers the question with a direction on where to go to get an abortion, now the educator is overstepping boundaries by playing the role of medical practitioner and moral or immoral (depending on your beliefs) guide.  As an educator I would say that the decision to have an abortion is one made by the person choosing to get or not get an abortion, no one else’s.  Getting an abortion as a procedure is something one goes to a hospital or doctor to get.  It’s got zero to do with the school, unless of course it’s a religious school that has a specific and constitutionally protected religious perspective.  

1. Based on polls over the curriculum BEFORE Ford revised it.

2. So you're here accusing me of supporting child molesters then right? It's a really great way to not debate people to basically call them monsters.

3. If the teacher directs them to resources including counselors,Planned Parenthood among other options, then that's aligned with their civic obligations in my books.  

 

[TreeBeard]

2 hours ago, blackbird said:

They claim being gay or straight is not a choice.  This is completely false. 

When did you choose to be straight?

Do you think you could choose to be attracted to the same sex tomorrow?