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America Divided - I'm right, you're wrong


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On 9/2/2023 at 12:52 AM, August1991 said:

This past summer, a foreigner, I travelled by train (Amtrak) from Chicago to Portland, Oregon. I stopped in Montana

I talked with many Americans.

You Americans are divided. Some of you openly hate Trump. Others shyly like the guy.

America is divided. Canada is to, but not to the same degree. Canuck Libbies are apparently sharper that their American counterparts.

I find your conclusion that some Americans "shyly" like Trump is a sad example of the consequences of the cancel culture. People are afraid to admit their true feelings in public for fear of reprisal. I don't have that fear. I think Trump was, and will be again Gawd willing, the best thing to happen to the USA in a very long time. He showed the elites that they could be snubbed and that we don't need them at all. He ushered in the best economy the USA has ever experienced. No new wars. A properly managed border.

Trump didn't just break the elites' mold...he shattered it. That was a good thing.

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1 minute ago, Nationalist said:

America is divided. Canada is to, but not to the same degree. Canuck Libbies are apparently sharper that their American counterparts.

I find your conclusion that some Americans "shyly" like Trump is a sad example of the consequences of the cancel culture. People are afraid to admit their true feelings in public for fear of reprisal. I don't have that fear. I think Trump was, and will be again Gawd willing, the best thing to happen to the USA in a very long time. He showed the elites that they could be snubbed and that we don't need them at all. He ushered in the best economy the USA has ever experienced. No new wars. A properly managed border.

Trump didn't just break the elites' mold...he shattered it. That was a good thing.

I think Trump supporters are about 50X more vocal about their political beliefs. I’ve never seen a pickup truck flying a five foot Biden flag. I think liberals feel a lot to intimidation about expressing their political beliefs on their cars, shirts, whatever.  
 

I don’t know if Trump supporters fear violence from left wingers but right wing political violence is definitely something real. They’re the ones dying (sometimes literally) to carry guns everywhere. 

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9 minutes ago, Nationalist said:

America is divided. Canada is to, but not to the same degree. Canuck Libbies are apparently sharper that their American counterparts.

I find your conclusion that some Americans "shyly" like Trump is a sad example of the consequences of the cancel culture. People are afraid to admit their true feelings in public for fear of reprisal. I don't have that fear. I think Trump was, and will be again Gawd willing, the best thing to happen to the USA in a very long time. He showed the elites that they could be snubbed and that we don't need them at all. He ushered in the best economy the USA has ever experienced. No new wars. A properly managed border.

Trump didn't just break the elites' mold...he shattered it. That was a good thing.

Trump is the elite.
Trump is the system. 

3 minutes ago, Nationalist said:

No but I see you're still either lying through your teeth, or just a dullard.

Enlighten us as to the NYT’s 1922 editorial proclivities vis a vis Adolph Hitler.  

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15 minutes ago, Rebound said:

I think Trump supporters are about 50X more vocal about their political beliefs. I’ve never seen a pickup truck flying a five foot Biden flag. I think liberals feel a lot to intimidation about expressing their political beliefs on their cars, shirts, whatever.  
 

I don’t know if Trump supporters fear violence from left wingers but right wing political violence is definitely something real. They’re the ones dying (sometimes literally) to carry guns everywhere. 

4039abb222a787712d29a661a4a8cee18fb04e6b.thumb.webp.369283a0d077e3f3af56908e5c2e6af3.webp

 

 

I don't know...It looks like you death-cultists are pretty vocal.

9 minutes ago, Rebound said:

Trump is the elite.
Trump is the system. 

Enlighten us as to the NYT’s 1922 editorial proclivities vis a vis Adolph Hitler.  

Hilarious...more death-cult denial and lies.

Do your own homework Cultist. The facts are rather well known.

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9 minutes ago, Nationalist said:

4039abb222a787712d29a661a4a8cee18fb04e6b.thumb.webp.369283a0d077e3f3af56908e5c2e6af3.webp

 

 

I don't know...It looks like you death-cultists are pretty vocal.

Hilarious...more death-cult denial and lies.

Do your own homework Cultist. The facts are rather well known.

One thing’s for certain: You’re too incoherent to be an AI-generated chatbot. 

Edited by Rebound
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2 minutes ago, Rebound said:

One thing’s for certain: You’re too incoherent to be an AI-generated chatbot. 

Incoherent?

Oddly enough...denial becomes you. Now there's an accomplishment you can be proud of.

@August1991 Sir...the divide in the USA is perfectly exemplified here in this discussion with @Rebound. Most people have known for quite some time...as in all along...that the NYT supported Hitler's rise to power and downplayed the anti-Semitic sentiments of the NAZIs. Yet what we see is pure denial of the fact.

It is impossible to come to a consensus with cultists who will do and say anything in the name of pure hatred of one man.

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32 minutes ago, Nationalist said:

Incoherent?

Oddly enough...denial becomes you. Now there's an accomplishment you can be proud of.

@August1991 Sir...the divide in the USA is perfectly exemplified here in this discussion with @Rebound. Most people have known for quite some time...as in all along...that the NYT supported Hitler's rise to power and downplayed the anti-Semitic sentiments of the NAZIs. Yet what we see is pure denial of the fact.

It is impossible to come to a consensus with cultists who will do and say anything in the name of pure hatred of one man.

In the first place, I have no idea how the NY Times of the 1920’s has anything to do with the NY Times of today. Do you? All those people died long ago. I don’t know if they were conservative, liberal or communist in 1922.  No idea. Do you know? 
 

Second, NY Times has an online archive of every issue since the mid-nineteenth century. So could you show us any of these articles? 

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2 minutes ago, Rebound said:

In the first place, I have no idea how the NY Times of the 1920’s has anything to do with the NY Times of today. Do you? All those people died long ago. I don’t know if they were conservative, liberal or communist in 1922.  No idea. Do you know? 
 

Second, NY Times has an online archive of every issue since the mid-nineteenth century. So could you show us any of these articles? 

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/1922-new-york-times-hitler/

But you knew this...didn't ya.

Its always amusing...and self-satisfying...to shine a light on the Libbie death-cult.

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3 hours ago, Nationalist said:

He showed the elites that they could be snubbed and that we don't need them at all. He ushered in the best economy the USA has ever experienced. No new wars. A properly managed border.

 

By your own telling, you operate on your feelings instead of facts, but that rather neatly illustrates the value and necessity of the "elites." Somebody has to be making informed decisions.

You may feel like it was the best economy ever, but that is so wildly inaccurate as to be laughable. Trump inherited a healthy economy an unwisely tried to goose it by running massive elective deficits, but it didn't really work. Poor ROI, as it never became more than a healthy economy. Take a look at the facts instead of your feelings on this. GDP growth, unemployment, poverty rate--pick whatever you want. It's not the best economy by even a single metric, let alone overall. 

And as for the "properly managed border" illegal crossings went UP dramatically under Trump and deportations went down.

Really, it seems like you just sort of believe whatever Trump says. He's made these claims. The trouble is that he's a compulsive liar who has  always made outlandish and exaggerated claims about his results. 

 

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On 9/9/2023 at 4:41 PM, CdnFox said:

Who? I asked you this before and you weren't able to point to any.  I mean, other than hitler, who?

I missed your query because I don't like reading your abusive responses. You're on semi-ignore.

Berlusconi in Italy

Sarkozy in France

Sebastian Kurz in Austria

And of course Hitler for his first insurrection.

Netanyahu in Israel (not really Europe, but many citizens are from Europe)

So you see there is NOTHING "third world" about holding government leaders accountable for their CRIMES.

You're going to have to find a DIFFERENT LAME EXCUSE for not charging Trump.

And get an education to CURE YOUR IGNORANCE.

 

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On 9/10/2023 at 8:48 AM, CdnFox said:

Hillary was.  Period. 

Typing "period" does not make ^this LIE TRUE.

After Lynch recused herself, Comey was in charge of the decision to indict, and he EXPLAINED why Hillary was not charged.

NO ONE has been charged with the inadvertent misstorage of unmarked classified documents which Hillary did.

Prove Comey wrong. Cite ANYONE who was ever charged with that "crime." I'm sure he knows better than YOU. LMAO

On 9/10/2023 at 8:48 AM, CdnFox said:

So - you could argue she should have been tried AND trump should be tried.  Or you can argue that both shouldn't be.

Dems argue that she shouldn't be because democrat and trump should e because trump and trump is a bad person and anything bad we do to him is justified.

Sorry - it's just hypocrisy.

Nope. See above. You are wrong. AND Trump's theft and misstorage of MARKED classified documents was INTENTIONAL and he is ON RECORD of claiming they were HIS.

 

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1 hour ago, Hodad said:

By your own telling, you operate on your feelings instead of facts, but that rather neatly illustrates the value and necessity of the "elites." Somebody has to be making informed decisions.

You may feel like it was the best economy ever, but that is so wildly inaccurate as to be laughable. Trump inherited a healthy economy an unwisely tried to goose it by running massive elective deficits, but it didn't really work. Poor ROI, as it never became more than a healthy economy. Take a look at the facts instead of your feelings on this. GDP growth, unemployment, poverty rate--pick whatever you want. It's not the best economy by even a single metric, let alone overall. 

And as for the "properly managed border" illegal crossings went UP dramatically under Trump and deportations went down.

Really, it seems like you just sort of believe whatever Trump says. He's made these claims. The trouble is that he's a compulsive liar who has  always made outlandish and exaggerated claims about his results. 

 

Here's some reality for you to choke on...

Quote

Let us examine the success in the first three years of his administration before the coronavirus flattened the economy. The unemployment rate fell less than 4 percent, which was near the lowest in half a century. The inflation rate fell to 1 percent, which was even below the target level set from the Federal Reserve. This has kept the interest rates on mortgages and many other loans down to the lowest level in modern times.

The portion who fell below the poverty line declined to the lowest level ever recorded in 2019. The wealth of households, including their stocks, savings, and real estate, rose to the highest level in history. The Census Bureau saw the median income rise to above $65,000, up by more than $5,000 in three years and double the gains from the last decade.

Almost all of these benefits were most pronounced for minorities, notably Blacks and Hispanics. Liberals counter this record by saying that Trump is now the first president in modern times to lose jobs in four years. This was clearly a result of the pandemic and, unless the left blames Trump for the coronavirus, the critical issue is how well the economy rebounds.

https://thehill.com/opinion/finance/535048-donald-trump-had-an-economic-record-that-will-be-remembered/

Like the typical cowardly cultist...you lie and cheat. Had The Rona not hit, the full 4 years of the Trump Presidency would have finished with insanely good outcomes for all...especially the minorities.

On the other hand...Biden has seen the end of The Rona and has managed to squash any recovery potential with his stupid-ass green bullshit. Inflation is on the rise again, the oil reserves are depleted, the Saudis laugh in his face and the world is now closer to a nuclear war than it ever has been before.

Way t' go Brandon...ya m0ron!

As for you. Pfft...go find another skirt to hide behind. The Rona no longer covers your lyin' bullshit.

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27 minutes ago, robosmith said:

I missed your query because I don't like reading your abusive responses. You're on semi-ignore.

 

It as one line and you respond to my stuff all the time :)  Often before i respond to you  :)

 Your 'semi ignore' sounds more like 'selective hearing; :)

Quote

Berlusconi in Italy

Was never charged for anything to do with his politics. He was charged in connection with his sex parties and taxes. AND - was charged while he was in office, the opposition couldn't interfere.  In fact he was investigated for corruption quite a bit - but never convicted of a thing. Swing and a miss there.

Quote

Sarkozy in France

He's going to jail for activities AFTER he was a politician. He'd already retired and THEN committed the crime and he's not running again. So not really  - no.   That's holding someone who used to be in politics for crimes they did after politics. That's not charging your political opponents with a crime. And even then there was some rumblings about if it was ok, with people finally deciding the guy had nothing to do with politics anymore.

It would be like if stephen harper were to jaywalk today - nobody would claim you shouldn't write him a ticket :)  

 

Quote

Sebastian Kurz in Austria

You mean that thing that happened like two weeks ago :) That they haven't even gone to trial over or formalized the charges?

We'll see.  I doubt that'll go to trial. In any case - so doesn't really count for this mountain of examples you claimed were out there :)  Does it.  It might be an example one day but again the charges came after he'd retired from politics.

 

Quote

And of course Hitler for his first insurrection.

Wasn't a politician at that point :) Wasn't even running for office. That would be like claiming that charging the jan 6 rioters was the same thing.

 

So what you've proven is that it's ENTIRELY third world.  You couldn't come up with a single example of  someone jailing their political opponents before an election or the like. Which is what the dems are desperately doing.

 

The dems are behaving like a third world nation  - nobody behaves like this.  Trying to jail your political opponent is petty dictator stuff.  And that's what dems are made of :)

But thanks for helping to prove the point :)

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2 hours ago, Nationalist said:

Here's some reality for you to choke on...

Like the typical cowardly cultist...you lie and cheat. Had The Rona not hit, the full 4 years of the Trump Presidency would have finished with insanely good outcomes for all...especially the minorities.

On the other hand...Biden has seen the end of The Rona and has managed to squash any recovery potential with his stupid-ass green bullshit. Inflation is on the rise again, the oil reserves are depleted, the Saudis laugh in his face and the world is now closer to a nuclear war than it ever has been before.

Way t' go Brandon...ya m0ron!

As for you. Pfft...go find another skirt to hide behind. The Rona no longer covers your lyin' bullshit.

 

A. It's absurd that you want to give Trump a mulligan on the economic effects of mishandling the pandemic and only compare the "good years." As if bad things only happened to Trump. You wanna apply the same thinking to Obama and Biden, who inherited massive disasters from their Republican predecessors? Of course you don't. That would be honest, consistent and inconvenient.

B. As I said in the initial post, the record is nothing special even BEFORE the pandemic. Certainly not special enough to justify the massive elective deficits. Again, if you actually look at the facts you can see the both the cumulative and annualized comparisons. 

S&P Obama vs Trump (NASDAQ and DOW quite similar)
image.thumb.png.2bd87b3254eb7b42830b9f79e3a7807a.png

 

GDP
image.thumb.png.ee610bb15763555fd05cd790527fbf21.png

Jobs created

image.thumb.png.5a1e36eaddfc88d1140acd630c545e18.png

^^ As is plain to see, Trupmp NEVER delivered the kind of performance he promise and tried to chase with elective deficit spending. Not even close. He basically coasted and continued the Obama trends without farking it up--until he did fark it up.

If his performance had actually been good, you wouldn't have to dredge us silly metrics isolating minorities--as if Trump ever did anything to advance minority interests. Rather, he sowed racial dissent and division to the degree that white nationalists felt empowered, accepted and encouraged in the MAGA America. They went marching. The drove through crowds. They attacked Black churches and Asian people. He kicked off his campaign with racism, xenophobia and sexism. That's what your movement is built on, and it showed up in the data.

Facts
These trends continued throughout Trump’s presidency, with annual hate crimes remaining around 20% higher during his administration
viii. Other research specifically tied these increases in hate crimes to Trump himself, finding that counties that hosted a Trump rally showed hate crime rates almost double those of similar counties with no rally [1]. 


So let's not pretend that Trump waved a magic wand to bless Black unemployment. ?

I know you're allergic to data and primary sources, but you're not going to reconnect with reality unless you stop googling for opinion pieces to reinforce your bias. 

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3 hours ago, Nationalist said:

Had The Rona not hit, the full 4 years of the Trump Presidency would have finished with insanely good outcomes for all...especially the minorities.

If frogs had wings, they wouldn't thump their butts..... LMAO

Trump completely sabotaged the US COVID response, and utterly destroyed the economy, so your SPECULATION about what "would have" happened means NOTHING. Duh

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3 hours ago, CdnFox said:

It as one line and you respond to my stuff all the time :)  Often before i respond to you  

 Your 'semi ignore' sounds more like 'selective hearing

 

Nope, I ignore a lot of your bullshit for days. But sometimes I stumble over it and then too late to ignore.

 

Quote

Was never charged for anything to do with his politics. He was charged in connection with his sex parties and taxes. AND - was charged while he was in office, the opposition couldn't interfere.  In fact he was investigated for corruption quite a bit - but never convicted of a thing. Swing and a miss there.

He's going to jail for activities AFTER he was a politician. He'd already retired and THEN committed the crime and he's not running again. So not really  - no.   That's holding someone who used to be in politics for crimes they did after politics. That's not charging your political opponents with a crime. And even then there was some rumblings about if it was ok, with people finally deciding the guy had nothing to do with politics anymore.

It would be like if stephen harper were to jaywalk today - nobody would claim you shouldn't write him a ticket :)  

 

You mean that thing that happened like two weeks ago :) That they haven't even gone to trial over or formalized the charges?

We'll see.  I doubt that'll go to trial. In any case - so doesn't really count for this mountain of examples you claimed were out there :)  Does it.  It might be an example one day but again the charges came after he'd retired from politics.

 

Wasn't a politician at that point :) Wasn't even running for office. That would be like claiming that charging the jan 6 rioters was the same thing.

 

So what you've proven is that it's ENTIRELY third world.  You couldn't come up with a single example of  someone jailing their political opponents before an election or the like. Which is what the dems are desperately doing.

 

The dems are behaving like a third world nation  - nobody behaves like this.  Trying to jail your political opponent is petty dictator stuff.  And that's what dems are made of :)

But thanks for helping to prove the point :)

Trump's crimes were not "anything to do with his politics," except for his first impeachment and he was not indicted for that.

They were business crimes, election coercion crimes, obstruction of justice crimes, and obstruction of official proceedings conspiracy crimes.

But that's not the point. He is a former POTUS who is charged with crimes just like any other citizen. Nothing third world about that and you're going to have eat it. Duh

 

 

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20 minutes ago, Hodad said:

 

A. It's absurd that you want to give Trump a mulligan on the economic effects of mishandling the pandemic and only compare the "good years." As if bad things only happened to Trump. You wanna apply the same thinking to Obama and Biden, who inherited massive disasters from their Republican predecessors? Of course you don't. That would be honest, consistent and inconvenient.

B. As I said in the initial post, the record is nothing special even BEFORE the pandemic. Certainly not special enough to justify the massive elective deficits. Again, if you actually look at the facts you can see the both the cumulative and annualized comparisons. 

S&P Obama vs Trump (NASDAQ and DOW quite similar)
image.thumb.png.2bd87b3254eb7b42830b9f79e3a7807a.png

 

GDP
image.thumb.png.ee610bb15763555fd05cd790527fbf21.png

Jobs created

image.thumb.png.5a1e36eaddfc88d1140acd630c545e18.png

^^ As is plain to see, Trupmp NEVER delivered the kind of performance he promise and tried to chase with elective deficit spending. Not even close. He basically coasted and continued the Obama trends without farking it up--until he did fark it up.

If his performance had actually been good, you wouldn't have to dredge us silly metrics isolating minorities--as if Trump ever did anything to advance minority interests. Rather, he sowed racial dissent and division to the degree that white nationalists felt empowered, accepted and encouraged in the MAGA America. They went marching. The drove through crowds. They attacked Black churches and Asian people. He kicked off his campaign with racism, xenophobia and sexism. That's what your movement is built on, and it showed up in the data.

Facts
These trends continued throughout Trump’s presidency, with annual hate crimes remaining around 20% higher during his administration
viii. Other research specifically tied these increases in hate crimes to Trump himself, finding that counties that hosted a Trump rally showed hate crime rates almost double those of similar counties with no rally [1]. 


So let's not pretend that Trump waved a magic wand to bless Black unemployment. ?

I know you're allergic to data and primary sources, but you're not going to reconnect with reality unless you stop googling for opinion pieces to reinforce your bias. 

 

LOL...so full of it.

12 minutes ago, robosmith said:

If frogs had wings, they wouldn't thump their butts..... LMAO

Trump completely sabotaged the US COVID response, and utterly destroyed the economy, so your SPECULATION about what "would have" happened means NOTHING. Duh

Riiight. So full of it.

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9 minutes ago, Nationalist said:

LOL...so full of it.

Riiight. So full of it.

So, you're running on empty AGAIN; bankruptcy as USUAL. LMAO

You're completely IGNORANT about all the things Trump did which made the pandemic much worse here.

At the top of the list are the TWO travel bands which were so badly BUNGLED they were super-spreader events.

I'll bet you missed Trump's confession given to Woodward ON TAPE because FOS LIES didn't report it.

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15 minutes ago, robosmith said:

Nope, I ignore a lot of your bullshit for days. But sometimes I stumble over it and then too late to ignore.

 

LOL - so if you read it and it scares you then you just keep going  :)   Fair enough :)  

Quote

Trump's crimes were not "anything to do with his politics," except for his first impeachment and he was not indicted for that.

Sure they were - his very first 'crime'  was 'russian collusion' which the left and the dems sicced the FBI on him for.

And now years later they're still trying to pin crimes on him.  It's been non stop.

 

Quote

But that's not the point. He is a former POTUS who is charged with crimes

He's a candidate for the presidency.  Hell even nancy, who was so obviously guilty it hurt to watch them twist around the fact, wasn't charged.

 

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