How Electric Cars Save The Planet

[reason10]

2 hours ago, Boges said:

Look I'm not opposed to LNG extraction. It's a fuel we need. 

But it's hilarious that you're fretting over the Environmental impacts of Lithium mining because it goes towards a "Green" product. But you'll defend the environmental costs of traditional Fossil fuel extraction. 

There are NO environmental costs of fossil fuel extraction in the United States. People live near oil derricks and oil refineries with ZERO health complaints. Same with people living in fracking areas.

But Electric Vehicles pollute with cobalt mines and lithium and they get those products from SLAVE LABOR.

The retards in San Francisco have gone ahead with slave reparations

but don't hold your breath for those fcking HYPOCRITES even mentioning modern day SLAVERY.

[Boges]

53 minutes ago, reason10 said:

You're hiding behind that bullshit "per capita" fairy tale. The United States is being targeted by the EnviroFascists to knock out our fossil fuel facilities and put us in the Stone Age, based on a climate change fairy tale that NO REAL SCIENTIST agrees with. These SAME goose steppers ignore CHINA and it's RECORD HIGHEST POLLUTION AND FOSSIL FUEL USE. It's not about per capital. It's about the goose steppers trying to destroy America.

How is per capita not a relevant statistic? I'll hang up and listen. 

The First world is being targeted because they pollute the most and are most capable of going Green. Which all are actually doing. 

[Boges]

51 minutes ago, reason10 said:

But Electric Vehicles pollute with cobalt mines and lithium and they get those products from SLAVE LABOR.

How do Cobalt mines pollute. I thought your issue is with how it's extracted. 

How many electric devices that you happily use and clothing items you happily wear are made by people in sub-standard working conditions. 

You're only quibbling because Lithium Ion batteries are avenues to pursue a Greener future. 

[reason10]

14 minutes ago, Boges said:

How is per capita not a relevant statistic? I'll hang up and listen. 

The First world is being targeted because they pollute the most and are most capable of going Green. Which all are actually doing. 

Nope. China pollutes the most. And most of America doesn't want to butt screw our economy based on a climate change LIE. America RIGHT NOW is the greenest, most clean powered nation on the planet.

[Boges]

11 minutes ago, reason10 said:

America RIGHT NOW is the greenest, most clean powered nation on the planet.

Cite. 

[reason10]

 

How do Cobalt mines pollute. I thought your issue is with how it's extracted.

https://abcnews.go.com/US/idaho-cobalt-mining-devastated-local-water-revisited-greener/story?id=88754951

Underneath the surface lies the Idaho Cobalt Belt, one of the country’s only large deposits of the critical mineral key to the lithium-ion batteries that power our phones, laptops, and increasingly our vehicles.

Cobalt mining abandoned this mountain range decades ago, after one mine caused devastating effects on the local environment and an entire town, a mountain range in Idaho is now seen as a key location in the country's move towards renewable energy sources

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/the-toll-of-the-cobalt-mining-industry-congo/

Health risks of chronic exposure 

According to the CDC, "chronic exposure to cobalt-containing hard metal (dust or fume) can result in a serious lung disease called 'hard metal lung disease'" – a kind of pneumoconiosis, meaning a lung disease caused by inhaling dust particles. Inhalation of cobalt particles can cause respiratory sensitization, asthma, decreased pulmonary function and shortness of breath, the CDC says.

The health agency says skin contact is also a significant health concern "because dermal exposures to hard metal and cobalt salts can result in significant systemic uptake." 

https://news.mongabay.com/2022/03/climate-positive-high-tech-metals-are-polluting-earth-but-solutions-await/

Mineral extraction consumes gigantic quantities of fresh water and can pollute soil, water and air, while vast open-pit mines drive large-scale land-use change, cause deforestation and threaten biodiversity. Mining, processing and transporting minerals also uses enormous amounts of energy, generating greenhouse gas emissions. In the end, the TCEs themselves may become pollutants when released back into the environment as emissions or waste.

How many electric devices that you happily use and clothing items you happily wear are made by people in sub-standard working conditions. 

I'm not the hypocrite racist AS$ HOLE who is pushing slave reparations for something that happened 200 years before I was born. And people who produce fossil fuel apparently are in very good working conditions, at least according to the animals from Central America, who illegally cross the border into Texas.

You're only quibbling because Lithium Ion batteries are avenues to pursue a Greener future.

That is a STUPID lie. There is no need for a "greener" future because (a) the Earth has over 200 years of oil beneath the surface, (b), it is the CLEANEST form of energy today (compared to the alternative (c) NONE of the goose stepping EnviroFacists will address China, which is the LARGEST POLLUTER IN THE WORLD.

When the economy went from horse driven vehicles (which polluted EVERY town they rode into and required ACRES of hay for fuel) to the internal combustion engine (which got its fuel from deep in the ground of a small area of land), there were no major government mandates. The FREE MARKET was all that was needed.

This push toward these firebombs

is not driven by the FREE MARKET, but rather by junk science and an unelected FASCIST Democrat government.

 

Edited March 22, 2023 by reason10

[reason10]

7 minutes ago, Boges said:

Cite. 

Name another country anywhere that powers so  many homes and cities with air as clean as the US, (which is in our laws)

There are third world countries with ZERO energy production and there is CHINA which is the worst. Show a country as large and important as the United States with cleaner skies and waterways.

[Boges]

Just now, reason10 said:

Name another country anywhere that powers so  many homes and cities with air as clean as the US, (which is in our laws)

There are third world countries with ZERO energy production and there is CHINA which is the worst. Show a country as large and important as the United States with cleaner skies and waterways.

Canada, France, Denmark. 

Edited March 22, 2023 by Boges

[reason10]

35 minutes ago, Boges said:

How is per capita not a relevant statistic? I'll hang up and listen. 

The First world is being targeted because they pollute the most and are most capable of going Green. Which all are actually doing. 

Per capita as a math term. It doesn't measure ACTUAL output. People in China are not getting lung cancer and emphysema based on "per capita" amounts. They are getting sick on the pollution itself.

Right now, the bluest states in America have the most polluted skies. No way Miami or Tampa or Orlando or Jacksonville COMBINED can equal the smog from Los Angeles.

[reason10]

1 minute ago, Boges said:

Canada, France, Denmark. 

They do not power the HUGE number of homes and buildings as the United States.

Most of Canada is frozen wilderness. Probably New York State has more homes needing power than most of Canada's wilderness.

[Boges]

12 minutes ago, reason10 said:

is not driven by the FREE MARKET, but rather by junk science and an unelected FASCIST Democrat government.

Well this is the faulty premise in your argument. See the other EV thread. Governments only do things that get them elected. 

If you question democracy, that's a different debate. BUT, for example, A Carbon Tax lost Liberals elections 15 years ago. Now it can get them elected and force Conservative Politicians to have some sort of Climate plan. 

Governments in Democracies can't unilaterally act, if Climate policy was a political loser, politicians wouldn't have them. 

Edited March 22, 2023 by Boges

[Boges]

3 minutes ago, reason10 said:

Per capita as a math term. It doesn't measure ACTUAL output. People in China are not getting lung cancer and emphysema based on "per capita" amounts. They are getting sick on the pollution itself.

Right now, the bluest states in America have the most polluted skies. No way Miami or Tampa or Orlando or Jacksonville COMBINED can equal the smog from Los Angeles.

Los Angeles is the second largest city in the country. 

You don't really comprehend Demographics well, do you? 

[Boges]

2 minutes ago, reason10 said:

They do not power the HUGE number of homes and buildings as the United States.

Most of Canada is frozen wilderness. Probably New York State has more homes needing power than most of Canada's wilderness.

And Canada exports power to the US. So now you want to make the Per Capita argument that America's size makes it the greenest country, despite many parts clinging to Coal for electricity generation. 

[reason10]

On 3/22/2023 at 12:50 PM, Boges said:

Canada, France, Denmark. 

 

Are you suggesting that Canada, France and Denmark have NO automobiles and use ZERO fossil fuel sources for power? Are you suggesting all three exist solely on horseback, powered by solar and wind farms?

[Boges]

On 8/19/2023 at 1:37 PM, reason10 said:

 

Are you suggesting that Canada, France and Denmark have NO automobiles and use ZERO fossil fuel sources for power? Are you suggesting all three exist solely on horseback, powered by solar and wind farms?

No. But for Electricity generation they've mostly cut out coal and Natural Gas is a far cleaner fossil fuel. These countries also use lots of Nuclear and Hydro. 

[TreeBeard]

As a young lad, conservative leaning folks hated paying for gas.  Why are their brethren, the torch bearers for the conservative movement, so against EVs just on principal?  

[sharkman]

And here’s a newish study on the impact EV cars and green energy are having:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-12545855/Devastating-transition-green-energy-metal-mining-23-million-people-toxic-waste-rivers-polluted-farmland.html

The researchers found that 23 million people worldwide, as well as 5.72 million in livestock, over 16 million acres of irrigated farmland and over 297,800 miles worth of rivers have been contaminated by mining's toxic byproducts seeping into the water.

This metal mining includes many so-called 'rare earth elements' essential to the manufacture of high-tech electronics, solar cells, wind turbines and all the batteries needed to store sustainable 'green' energy.

 

[OftenWrong]

21 hours ago, sharkman said:

And here’s a newish study on the impact EV cars and green energy are having:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-12545855/Devastating-transition-green-energy-metal-mining-23-million-people-toxic-waste-rivers-polluted-farmland.html

The researchers found that 23 million people worldwide, as well as 5.72 million in livestock, over 16 million acres of irrigated farmland and over 297,800 miles worth of rivers have been contaminated by mining's toxic byproducts seeping into the water.

This metal mining includes many so-called 'rare earth elements' essential to the manufacture of high-tech electronics, solar cells, wind turbines and all the batteries needed to store sustainable 'green' energy.

 

"Look away, Dixieland."  

[Stark22]

This study is an important reminder that the transition to clean energy is not completely harmless.

[eyeball]

On 8/28/2023 at 7:01 PM, TreeBeard said:

As a young lad, conservative leaning folks hated paying for gas.  Why are their brethren, the torch bearers for the conservative movement, so against EVs just on principal?  

EV's are green therefore woke.

[Boges]

On 9/26/2023 at 1:14 PM, sharkman said:

And here’s a newish study on the impact EV cars and green energy are having:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-12545855/Devastating-transition-green-energy-metal-mining-23-million-people-toxic-waste-rivers-polluted-farmland.html

The researchers found that 23 million people worldwide, as well as 5.72 million in livestock, over 16 million acres of irrigated farmland and over 297,800 miles worth of rivers have been contaminated by mining's toxic byproducts seeping into the water.

This metal mining includes many so-called 'rare earth elements' essential to the manufacture of high-tech electronics, solar cells, wind turbines and all the batteries needed to store sustainable 'green' energy.

 

Buried in this article: 

Quote

 

But these heavy investments in initial overhead are dwarfed by the repeated volume of fossil fuels currently mined today to meet present and growing energy demands. 

As of 2021, over 7.5 billion tons of coal were extracted from the ground, wreaking havoc on local people and environments from Sydney Australia's Royal National Park, to coal-rich Inner Mongolia in China and more.

This is a whopping 25 times the current estimates of the metal mining needed for a clean energy revolution by 2040, according to projections from the Paris-based International Energy Agency (founded during the 1970s oil crisis by the OECD).

 

And EV people seem unbothered by the ecological issues presented by the continued burning of fossil fuels. 

There are already alternatives to the many metals required for battery production being developed. 

[eyeball]

The key to making EV work more sustainably, mind you we could do the same with conventional cars, is complete hands free automation and discouraging private vehicle ownership in densely populated areas. IE you simply google up a car and have it pick you up, drop you off before its takes off to pick up it's next passenger(s).

Completely replacing every privately owned conventional car with an EV car isn't necessary.  We have an opportunity here to both use less resources plus reduce clogged roads.

[herbie]

On 3/20/2023 at 11:11 AM, impartialobserver said:

Except that the supply of lithium that demands no processing is far, far lower than that of oil.

The deposit you referred to is turning out to be the largest deposit on the planet so far. And with battery tech advancing so rapidly, who knows if lithium will remain in such high demand. Toyota is claiming battery charging time will drop to 10 minutes by 2027,

[Aristides]

On 3/22/2023 at 8:20 AM, reason10 said:

You're hiding behind that bullshit "per capita" fairy tale. The United States is being targeted by the EnviroFascists to knock out our fossil fuel facilities and put us in the Stone Age, based on a climate change fairy tale that NO REAL SCIENTIST agrees with. These SAME goose steppers ignore CHINA and it's RECORD HIGHEST POLLUTION AND FOSSIL FUEL USE. It's not about per capital. It's about the goose steppers trying to destroy America.

Why shouldn't every Chinese and Indian have the right to emit as much CO2 as the average North American? What makes us so special that we can each use far more of the earths resources than anyone else? 

All the stuff we buy from China and other Asian countries that is shipped half way around the world doesn't happen without emissions.

[reason10]

On 10/20/2023 at 10:22 AM, Aristides said:

Why shouldn't every Chinese and Indian have the right to emit as much CO2 as the average North American? What makes us so special that we can each use far more of the earths resources than anyone else? 

All the stuff we buy from China and other Asian countries that is shipped half way around the world doesn't happen without emissions.

What resources are we using? Can you even NAME ONE? (While you sit there drooling all over your keyboard, we already know you can't.)

Maybe you should be asking why termites should have as much right to emit as much CO2 into the atmosphere, SINCE THEY EMIT MORE THAN ALL HUMAN ACTIVITY COMBINED.

And maybe you should be asking why CO2 is even an issue when it takes up LESS THAN A FUGGING PERCENTAGE POINT OF ALL GREENHOUSE GASSES?

Name the resources. Or admit you are stupid.

A. or B.

Just like the school you dropped out of.