CdnFox Posted February 22, 2023 Report Share Posted February 22, 2023 18 minutes ago, Moonbox said: Even that's not right, because the New Testament as a singular entity didn't even exist until it was compiled together and formalized...by clerics throughout the Roman Empire. That would be the 'holy roman empire' - the byzantine which existed AFTER christianity was founded and which was based on Christianity. Not the 'romans'. And even then they didn't 'write' it. As you say, collection of letters and stories from other people that were compiled. Paul wasn't a roman for example. So the idea that the bible was written by the romans' is pretty crazy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CdnFox Posted February 22, 2023 Report Share Posted February 22, 2023 4 minutes ago, Moonbox said: Proof is there...sure. In your own little world. If you want to call reality my world (rather than yours) then sure. 4 minutes ago, Moonbox said: That's sort of like the bubbas saying, "We speak American here". You can't be Roman unless you spoke Latin, sort of like you can't be Canadian if you speak French...or something? Is that how this works? It's not remotely close to that tho is it. If the Canadian gov't wrote a document they wouldn't write it in chinese and then translate it to english. If some chinese people who lived in Canada wrote a document and someone else translated it into english you wouldn't say "canada wrote this". 4 minutes ago, Moonbox said: Roman Citizens were Roman Citizens. It didn't matter if you were born in Gaul, or Spain, or Africa. AHhh... no. No, a person born in gaul under the romans was not automatically a roman citizen. In fact it wouldn't be till 200 years later that gauls were granted citizenship other than specific cases. 4 minutes ago, Moonbox said: No, I'm saying your argument was shit. Yes - just like you say that rome wrote the bible, that murder is the same everywhere, and a bunch of other similarly intelligent things Which is why you have to keep going back and changing your story. Read a book kid. Then we can talk. Christians have a distinct and unique moral value set. And our country was based on it Sorry for the incovenience to your preconceived ideas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TreeBeard Posted February 22, 2023 Report Share Posted February 22, 2023 (edited) 37 minutes ago, Moonbox said: Even that's not right, because the New Testament as a singular entity didn't even exist until it was compiled together and formalized...by clerics throughout the Roman Empire. Before that, it was a collection of letters, writings, word-of-mouth stories and anonymously written gospels etc that spread around and were translated, interpreted and re-translated and re-interpreted for centuries. The first record mention of the Gospels, for example, came from France, something like 200 years after Jesus. Well, it was written in Palestine, even if it was in pieces and even if it was later compiled elsewhere. It was written anywhere from 70CE to 120CE depending on which book. To think the writings came from far and wide isn’t the case, as far as I know. The writings seem to originate in Palestine over that time, but I stand to be corrected; I’m no expert. Edited February 22, 2023 by TreeBeard 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackbird Posted February 22, 2023 Author Report Share Posted February 22, 2023 2 hours ago, TreeBeard said: With @blackbird It went from “I’m for free speech like in USA” to “movies insulting Jesus should be banned” to “kids swearing in McDonalds should be arrested”. We know who definitely doesn’t want Canadians to have free expression. Here you are just after you accused me of falsely saying you were lying and I apologized. Now you're back at twisting the truth and adding things to what I said. I never said "kids swearing in McDonalds should be arrested". I suggest people swearing in places like McDonalds should be fined. Being fined for illegal parking or using fowl language in a public place is not the same as being arrested. Or people using fowl language could also be kicked out and if necessary, banned from an establishment, either temporarily or permanently. I support freedom of speech as a basic right. That doesn't include hate speech that incites violence or profane or obscene language. Freedom of speech includes the right to oppose or criticize false ideology or false religion in a rational way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonbox Posted February 22, 2023 Report Share Posted February 22, 2023 5 minutes ago, CdnFox said: That would be the 'holy roman empire' - the byzantine which existed AFTER christianity was founded and which was based on Christianity. Not the 'romans'. Again, no. The Holy Roman Empire had nothing to do with the Romans, or the Greeks. The Eastern Roman Empire was the continuation of the Roman one. They moved the capital of the whole thing from Rome to Constantinople, because most of the administrative needs (and wars) were out there and the whole thing was too hard to govern from Rome proper. They never referred to themselves as Byzantines. They referred to themselves as Roman, and subscribed to Roman Law, traditions and culture, which continued to evolve over time. 5 minutes ago, CdnFox said: And even then they didn't 'write' it. As you say, collection of letters and stories from other people that were compiled. Paul wasn't a roman for example. No, but when the Bible was compiled centuries later, we really don't know what what Paul said, nor do we even know ho wrote many of the "books". We instead got translations and interpretations of translations and interpretations, and nothing was formally codified or compiled until the Synods of Hippo (in Roman North Africa, by Roman Bishops) where we got the first approved and canonical "Bible". 5 minutes ago, CdnFox said: So the idea that the bible was written by the romans' is pretty crazy Except it's not. ?♂️ 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonbox Posted February 22, 2023 Report Share Posted February 22, 2023 10 minutes ago, TreeBeard said: Well, it was written in Palestine, even if it was in pieces and even if it was later compiled elsewhere. We don't even have authors for a lot of it, so we actually have no idea. The first mention of the gospels came from a France (or Gaul). The "compilation" can't be disregarded either, because that's where officials canonized the teachings and made them "official", including what they agreed to, omitting what they found unhelpful, interpreting things in the ways that best suited their needs. That the New Testament varied so much by denomination is all of the evidence that we need that we're not likely getting reliable versions of whatever the apostles were saying in Palestine hundreds of years prior. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TreeBeard Posted February 22, 2023 Report Share Posted February 22, 2023 (edited) 15 minutes ago, blackbird said: Here you are just after you accused me of falsely saying you were lying and I apologized. Now you're back at twisting the truth and adding things to what I said. I never said "kids swearing in McDonalds should be arrested". I suggest people swearing in places like McDonalds should be fined. Being fined for illegal parking or using fowl language in a public place is not the same as being arrested. Or people using fowl language could also be kicked out and if necessary, banned from an establishment, either temporarily or permanently. I support freedom of speech as a basic right. That doesn't include hate speech that incites violence or profane or obscene language. Freedom of speech includes the right to oppose or criticize false ideology or false religion in a rational way. I apologize…. Fined for swearing. You are for free speech as long as it doesn’t offend you or the Jesus. Got it. What should happen to them when they haven’t paid their 67 swearing fines? Edited February 22, 2023 by TreeBeard 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonbox Posted February 22, 2023 Report Share Posted February 22, 2023 23 minutes ago, CdnFox said: It's not remotely close to that tho is it. If the Canadian gov't wrote a document they wouldn't write it in chinese and then translate it to english. No kidding. They'd write in English or they'd write in French, just like the Romans would write it in Latin or write it in Greek, depending on who they were communicating with. ? 23 minutes ago, CdnFox said: AHhh... no. No, a person born in gaul under the romans was not automatically a roman citizen. In fact it wouldn't be till 200 years later that gauls were granted citizenship other than specific cases. Nobody said everyone was a Roman citizen. The majority living in City of Rome didn't even have citizenship. Once again you're just making up something to argue against. The point was that if you were a Roman Citizen, you were a Roman Citizen. It didn't matter if you were a Berber, or an Egyptian, or an Iberian. The Citizenship was all that mattered. 27 minutes ago, CdnFox said: Christians have a distinct and unique moral value set. And our country was based on it Sorry for the incovenience to your preconceived ideas. Except that's once again self-evidently false. Morality varies greatly across Europe, North America and anywhere else that Christianity expanded. Most of the "values" you would refer to exist outside of that, and existed before it, and similarly most of the moral "failures" you'd try referring to would have Christian equivalents. Everyone was cool with murder in Japan and Rome, however. It was only when the Bible came along that this stopped. Yup yup. ? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CdnFox Posted February 22, 2023 Report Share Posted February 22, 2023 14 minutes ago, Moonbox said: Again, no. The Holy Roman Empire had nothing to do with the Romans, or the Greeks. Keep digging your hole kiddo For the time period and the activities you're talking about you're referring to the byzantine which became the holy roman empire in around the 900's. The byzantine was the eastern roman empire initially till it split. Once again you display a remarkable lack of knowledge. You're probably a nice kid but you just clearly don't know what you're talking about. It would be like someone claiming that einstein invented physics. Sorry kid you're just so wrong it's comical Next time do a bit of research first. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackbird Posted February 22, 2023 Author Report Share Posted February 22, 2023 1 hour ago, Moonbox said: The first record mention of the Gospels, for example, came from France, something like 200 years after Jesus. Not correct. There were early Christians that lived in the Apostolic age before 100 A.D. and experts say the New Testament was essentially completed before 100 A.D. Some of the New Testament books were addressed to the Christian churches that existed in places that the Apostle Paul had travelled to. Nothing to do with France. "The Date of the New Testament Writings: Internal Evidence Critics claim that the Gospels were written centuries after the lifetimes of the eyewitnesses. This would allow for myths about Jesus' life to proliferate. Were the Gospels written by eyewitnesses as they claim, or were they written centuries later? The historical facts appear to make a strong case for a first century date. Jesus' ministry was from A.D. 27-30. Noted New Testament scholar, F.F. Bruce, gives strong evidence that the New Testament was completed by A.D. 100. Most writings of the New Testament works were completed twenty to forty years before this. The Gospels are dated traditionally as follows: Mark is believed to be the first gospel written around A.D. 60. Matthew and Luke follow and are written between A.D. 60-70; John is the final gospel, written between A.D. 90-100." The Historical Reliability of the Gospels | Bible.org Of course copies were made and distributed around the Roman world in the centuries following the Apostolic age. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CdnFox Posted February 22, 2023 Report Share Posted February 22, 2023 2 minutes ago, Moonbox said: No kidding. They'd write in English or they'd write in French, just like the Romans would write it in Latin or write it in Greek, depending on who they were communicating with. ? Nope - romans would write it in latin. Greeks living in rome would write it in greek 2 minutes ago, Moonbox said: Nobody said everyone was a Roman citizen. You LITERALLY DID. You claimed it didn't matter where in the empire you were born, you were a citizen. ONCE AGAIN changing what you said when you realize you're wrong. 2 minutes ago, Moonbox said: The majority living in City of Rome didn't even have citizenship. You literally claimed otherwise. But if they're just living in the city and they are not citizens - then they're not romans are they. 2 minutes ago, Moonbox said: Once again you're just making up something to argue against. ROFLMAO - It was YOUR point!!!! LOL!!!! YOU were the one who made the claim!!! I literally just responded to you!!! HAHAHAHA!! Well at least you're admitting your point was nonsense I guess that's progress sort of You - 'this thing is true and relevant" Me - "its' not true. Here's the facts" You - "Oh - well - it wasn't relevant anyway and you're a bad person for bringing it up!" LOL - I'll give you this, you're not right very much, but by god you're entertaining Quote Except that's once again self-evidently false. No, you're just self-evidently delusional. And apperently not familiar with what 'self evident' means. The values of christianity are distinguishable from other religions and cultures (possible exception of the jews for obvious reasons). That's pretty obvious. Most other religions don't agree with the christinan beliefs. Muslims don't. Bhuddists dont'. Christianity is unique. Most of the religions are for that matter but christianity is. It was not written by the romans, it was not simply stealing all the roman morals, sorry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonbox Posted February 22, 2023 Report Share Posted February 22, 2023 56 minutes ago, CdnFox said: Nope - romans would write it in latin. Greeks living in rome would write it in greek What about Egyptians? They spoke Greek, so I guess they weren't Egyptians? Gauls spoke Latin, so I guess they weren't Gauls. Britons too - not actually Britons - they were Romans because they spoke and wrote Latin? Gosh, It's almost like there's more to your identity than the language you speak! ...but of course not. If you spoke Greek you couldn't be Roman, just like you can't be American if you speak Spanish...or something like that. ? 56 minutes ago, CdnFox said: You LITERALLY DID. You claimed it didn't matter where in the empire you were born, you were a citizen. I LITERALLY DID NOT: ? Again, you just sort of invent what you want to argue against, rather than what anyone's actually saying. 56 minutes ago, CdnFox said: That's pretty obvious. Most other religions don't agree with the christinan beliefs. Muslims don't. Bhuddists dont'. Christianity is unique. Most of the religions are for that matter but christianity is. Yeah we know. Only Christianity had the proper morals to condemn murderers, rapists, thieves etc. Japan certainly didn't, as you say, until the Christians came along. It's a wonder that civilization survived before the Bible. ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CdnFox Posted February 22, 2023 Report Share Posted February 22, 2023 3 minutes ago, Moonbox said: What about Egyptians? They spoke Greek, so I guess they weren't Egyptians? Gauls spoke Latin, so I guess they weren't Gauls. Britons too - not actually Britons - they were Romans because they spoke and wrote Latin? Gosh, It's almost like there's more to your identity than the language you speak! ...but of course not. If you spoke Greek you couldn't be Roman, just like you can't be American if you speak Spanish...or something like that. ? I LITERALLY DID NOT: ? Again, you just sort of invent what you want to argue against, rather than what anyone's actually saying. Yeah we know. Only Christianity had the proper morals to condemn murderers, rapists, thieves etc. Japan certainly didn't, as you say, until the Christians came along. It's a wonder that civilization survived before the Bible. ? Soooo lets see here..... lying about what you said, lying about what I said, rediculous statements that have nothing to do with the discussion to date, and delusional comments that you can't back up.' Yep, all there. That's definitely one of your posts all right Lying won't help your case kid. And i've addressed and answered all of that before. You just repeat it hoping if you do it enough by magic the answers will somehow change and you'll be right. They won't. You're not. And at this point i'm just laughing at you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hardner Posted February 22, 2023 Report Share Posted February 22, 2023 Is this the weirdest thread drift ever ? I'm throwing my challenge flag to go upstairs to the booth.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
herbie Posted February 22, 2023 Report Share Posted February 22, 2023 Good God the usual nitpicking BS barely relevant to the subject. Objecting to some singer that inserts a word in the anthem rather than jazzing it up to something barely recognizable. Jimi Hendrix did that 50 years ago, everyone since is a peepee-poor mimic. That makes her 'left'? Implying Canadian content regs are subsidies and therefore 'left'. Condemning the CBC for costing money while they handout multiples of it's budget to private Telcos to do their job? Cagey Bee sez: You mek me laff comrades...hwah hwah hwah.! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
herbie Posted February 22, 2023 Report Share Posted February 22, 2023 Stupid f^^^ers whining about censorship on a website that won't let you post p-iss poor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonbox Posted February 22, 2023 Report Share Posted February 22, 2023 1 hour ago, CdnFox said: Soooo lets see here..... lying about what you said, lying about what I said, rediculous statements that have nothing to do with the discussion to date, and delusional comments that you can't back up.' I quoted exactly what I said, and it came from YOUR quote of me. Telling me I'm lying about that is...well it's retarded. ?♂️ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I am Groot Posted February 22, 2023 Report Share Posted February 22, 2023 5 hours ago, Michael Hardner said: 2. Yeah, I heard people telling the Convoy Truckers to be grateful for Canada too. It's pretty subjective as to what should be said and what shouldn't be. You don't like Black History Month, for example. It's definitely your right to say that. There's a difference between Truckers condemning the government vs this twat condemning the entire country and its legitimacy. And I don't like Black history month (in Canada) because its nothing but a performative virtue-signaling tribute to the American culture wars. It makes no sense to have such a thing here. 5 hours ago, Michael Hardner said: I feel it's very odd when you tell people that they should be grateful to get welfare because they're impoverished. Free trade killed manufacturing jobs and sent some people into poverty... should they be grateful that their government gives them welfare ? Not sure on that. I don't think, given her parents came from Jamaica and lived in the Jane/Finch area of Toronto, that free trade was responsible for their poverty. 5 hours ago, Michael Hardner said: 4. Don't say bad things about Canada if you are an immigrant, yes I got that already. Immigrants should feel free to criticize something the government is doing. Condemning the existence of Canada as a state is something entirely different. If you don't believe Canada should even exist then why are you here? 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CdnFox Posted February 22, 2023 Report Share Posted February 22, 2023 10 minutes ago, Moonbox said: I quoted exactly what I said, and it came from YOUR quote of me. Telling me I'm lying about that is...well it's retarded. ?♂️ You were lying entirely. I guess you think telling the truth is retarded. Which actually explains a lot Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dougie93 Posted February 22, 2023 Report Share Posted February 22, 2023 (edited) 4 hours ago, TreeBeard said: Well, it was written in Palestine, even if it was in pieces and even if it was later compiled elsewhere. It was written anywhere from 70CE to 120CE depending on which book. To think the writings came from far and wide isn’t the case, as far as I know. The writings seem to originate in Palestine over that time, but I stand to be corrected; I’m no expert. the Greeks translated the Bible into Greek from Coptic Coptic being an Egyptian language, suggesting that the Gospels were actually written in Egypt bearing in mind that at the time, Egypt is Roman Alexandria at the time is second only to Rome itself, Alexandria was the centre of Roman academia if you were a Roman writing important books, you would have been in Alexandria Rome was the city of commerce & war, while Alexandria was where the Romans kept their Library even if the events took place in Judea, it is unlikely that the books were written there the Judeans had no particular love for Jesus, it was the Romans who adopted Him not the Jews the Roman academic langauge was not Latin, when it came to academics, the Romans used Greek the Romans were Greeks who migrated to Italy so Romans who were literate, were educated by Greeks in Greek so it went from Judea to Egypt, where it was written in Coptic, then translated into Greek by Romans and thus was the undoing of the Pagan slave Empire Tiberius Caesar crucifies Jesus for treason 280 years later, Constantine Caesar converts the Empire to Christianity Edited February 22, 2023 by Dougie93 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hardner Posted February 22, 2023 Report Share Posted February 22, 2023 24 minutes ago, I am Groot said: 1. There's a difference between Truckers condemning the government vs this twat condemning the entire country and its legitimacy. 2. And I don't like Black history month (in Canada) 3. It makes no sense to have such a thing here. 4. I don't think, given her parents came from Jamaica and lived in the Jane/Finch area of Toronto, that free trade was responsible for their poverty. 1. That's your take on this. She changed one word to remind people of where we came from. 2. Yes we know. 3. Black people are mistreated throughout the European countries and colonies. Just because America ended slavery 39 years or so later isn't a big enough difference for us to feel smug IMO. 4. It was an analogy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackbird Posted February 22, 2023 Author Report Share Posted February 22, 2023 9 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said: 3. Black people are mistreated throughout the European countries and colonies. " Slavery was abolished in the (British) colonies by buying out the owners in 1833 by the Slavery Abolition Act 1833." - Wikipedia Canada officially came into existence in 1867. " The courts, to varying degrees, rendered slavery unenforceable in both Lower Canada and Nova Scotia. In Lower Canada, for example, after court decisions in the late 1790s, the "slave could not be compelled to serve longer than he would, and... might leave his master at will." Upper Canada passed the Act Against Slavery in 1793, one of the earliest anti-slavery acts in the world." -Wikipedia Slavery was almost non-existent in Canada and even that ended about two hundred years ago. So there is no justification for making a great to-do out about the subject in Canada. This woman doesn't know beans about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TreeBeard Posted February 22, 2023 Report Share Posted February 22, 2023 49 minutes ago, Dougie93 said: the Greeks translated the Bible into Greek from Coptic LOL That is just all sorts of wrong! No, the New Testament certainly wasn’t written originally in Coptic. The NT was originally written in Greek, but not by people from Greece. It did get translated into Coptic. Wiki has references for you. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Language_of_the_New_Testament Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dougie93 Posted February 22, 2023 Report Share Posted February 22, 2023 (edited) 21 minutes ago, TreeBeard said: LOL That is just all sorts of wrong! No, the New Testament certainly wasn’t written originally in Coptic. The NT was originally written in Greek, but not by people from Greece. It did get translated into Coptic. Wiki has references for you. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Language_of_the_New_Testament you said the Bible the Bible starts with the Old Testament tho it's unlikely that the New Testament was written in Judea again, the Jews do not worship Jesus, Christianity is a Roman religion Jesus was not important to the people in Judea, they took very little notice of Him Jesus was only important to the Romans, who did not actually live in Judea, except for the army Judea was occupied territory, the military frontier, it wasn't even safe for Roman scholars to live there there is no historical evidence that Jesus existed there is even less evidence that Matthew, Mark Luke & John were real people or even that they wrote the Gospels, it's entirely circular with no corroboration at all Edited February 22, 2023 by Dougie93 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TreeBeard Posted February 22, 2023 Report Share Posted February 22, 2023 15 minutes ago, Dougie93 said: you said the Bible the Bible starts with the Old Testament tho it's unlikely that the New Testament was written in Judea again, the Jews do not worship Jesus, Christianity is a Roman religion Jesus was not important to the people in Judea, they took very little notice of Him Jesus was only important to the Romans, who did not actually live in Judea, except for the army Judea was occupied territory, the military frontier, it wasn't even safe for Roman scholars to live there We were discussing the NT. But, the bible was originally Hebrew, for the most part. Some parts were Aramaic. Coptic was not one of the languages. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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