The Left is Destroying Western Civilization

[eyeball]

3 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

You should really think about what that says about you.  

You're just completely filled with yourself aren't you?

You're not very good at this are you?

Edited February 23, 2023 by eyeball

[CdnFox]

1 minute ago, eyeball said:

As I recall we had this 2000 year old moral code, actual laws in some people's minds, that commanded us to do unto others yadda yadda but...instead our forefathers ran around the place changing the subject and saying it really meant doing unto others as they do unto others makes doing it them okay.

Actually you've got it backwards.  I think i said elsewhere the moral code of 'do unto others' is a problem .  It was their adherence to that which caused the issue.

Our forefathers ABSOLUTELY believed that if THEY were a bunch of buckskin wearing "Savages" that they would DESPERATELY want someone to come along and teach them the ways of civilized society. They HONESTLY believed everyone would want to be like the british if they could, if only someone would show them how. Many of them WENT to boarding school or catholic schools.

They literally did unto others as they would want to have done unto themselves. And that's not always a good idea. Turns out what others want and need might be different than what you want or need.

So - swing and a miss there.

[CdnFox]

3 minutes ago, eyeball said:

You're just completely filled with yourself aren't you?

I haven't talked about me at all. This was about you. I can see why you'd want to change the subject tho.

3 minutes ago, eyeball said:

You're not very good at this are you?

Far better than you it would seem   At least i don't spout hatred and racist comments and then have to walk them back when i get called on it as you have.

Do better. Hatred and racism don't help anything

[eyeball]

14 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

Actually you've got it backwards.

Actually I was replying to someone else.

Quote

I think i said elsewhere the moral code of 'do unto others' is a problem.

I'm not surprised you have a problem with it.  Meanwhile I've clearly said many times over the years that doing unto others yadda yadda is like the e=mc2 of how to get along in the world. Unlike e=mc2 it can be taught and understood by the time kids graduate from kindergarten.

[Zeitgeist]

1 hour ago, eyeball said:

Said the guy who routinely passes judgement on the people of today by comparing them to Stalin and Hitler.  You should listen to yourself.

In any case, you have the tiresome habit of attempting to sweep away the need for reconciliation by declaring that everything happened in the past.  I've told you this before, a good number of these injustices and crimes suffered by 1st Nations happened within living memory - I have good friends my age who were raped by teachers in residential and non-residential schools.

All this water will eventually pass under the bridge but just not in our lifetimes.  You have to get over that and if you think you're helping speed the passage of that water by whining that it's not passing fast enough for your liking you're sadly mistaken. The angst you're suffering is entirely self-inflicted.

I have only sympathy and compassion for anyone who suffers rape and other injustices.  Such people are victims deserving of justice.

You on the other hand I have zero sympathy for.  You made some pretty fascistic comments on the health policy front.  You’re a leftist in political rhetoric but pretty totalitarian in your attitudes. I certainly wouldn’t want to work under you.

Edited February 23, 2023 by Zeitgeist

[Dougie93]

7 hours ago, blackbird said:

Your postings sounds like it is just another far out tale. 

more far out than the King James Bible ?

which claims that YHWH,  the deity of the Hebrews,  is the Supreme Being making & shaping reality

both the Creator and the fabric of the universe, who also exists in some infinite other dimension as a human male

yet that the Jews got it all wrong,  and don't in fact know their own God

rather, their God inseminated himself into a human female followed by a miraculous birth

then at the age of thirty three, conspired to have himself Crucified by the Romans

just so He could resurrect himself, throw a giant boulder aside

to then ascend back to His other dimensional "Heaven"

all for the purposes of proving to the Jews that they were worshipping Him in the wrong way

Edited February 23, 2023 by Dougie93

[TreeBeard]

1 hour ago, CdnFox said:

Except it's a lie that their children were taken wasn't it. Until the 20's it was the parents choice.

You think the parents actually gave informed consent?

[Dougie93]

8 hours ago, blackbird said:

  You are making totally nonsensical comments.  

you keep invoking "nonsensical"

while asserting that the universe itself

is an infinitely powerful human male which governs every aspect of your life

if you are going to invoke the Bible as historical fact, logic is not your ally

do you believe in the supernatural or not ?

if yes, then you are in fact asserting that you believe in something inherently nonsensical

you can't sense it, there is no logic to it, it does not obey the laws of physics, etcetera

"And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory."

what does that even mean ?

by common sense, it is complete gibberish

who is the Son of Man ?

nobody knows, including you

thumping the Bible as if it is logic, actually serves the purposes of the godless atheists

because they can easily run circles around you

simply by pointing out that the supernatural and logic are in direct conflict

you are welcome to your superstitious beliefs

but when you invoke them as being logically consistent fact, that is springing a trap on yourself

logic requires proof, and since you have none, the atheists win the argument by default

to wit, if you want to be a successful Evangelical, invoking "nonsensical" is not a winning hand

even in the context of this forum, near as I can tell, you have zero converts, not even close to one

if anything, your ceaselessly dogmatic Bible thumping is counterproductive and alienating

so, no offence, but you actually suck at this, you don't make any headway, quite the opposite

Edited February 23, 2023 by Dougie93

[CdnFox]

1 hour ago, eyeball said:

Actually I was replying to someone else.

Actually still had it backwards

1 hour ago, eyeball said:

I'm not surprised you have a problem with it.  Meanwhile I've clearly said many times over the years that doing unto others yadda yadda is like the e=mc2 of how to get along in the world. Unlike e=mc2 it can be taught and understood by the time kids graduate from kindergarten.

And as we can see you were wrong. Unless you're saying the residential schools are a GOOD thing. They're a direct result of 'do unto others'.

Wow. You really AREN'T very good at this are you.

[eyeball]

1 hour ago, CdnFox said:

...i don't spout hatred and racist comments and then have to walk them back when i get called on it as you have.

Show me, precisely, where I spouted hatred and racism - word for word please.

[CdnFox]

27 minutes ago, TreeBeard said:

You think the parents actually gave informed consent?

You think they didn't? What, you think that first nations people are just too stupid to understand things?  Too dumb to ask questions, and just let their kids go there without a single thought? Because they're first nations? That's a pretty racist question.

Despite what you may think first nations people are not stupid. And many visited the schools, and of course most of the kids got to go home over summer and the parents could speak to them then.

So they were as informed as anyone could be.

[CdnFox]

2 minutes ago, eyeball said:

Show me, precisely, where I spouted hatred and racism - word for word please.

I did. I pointed it out when you attempted to change your tune. You're not one of those losers who just keeps asking people to point the same thing out again and again and again as some sort of pathetic failed debate technique are you?

[Zeitgeist]

44 minutes ago, TreeBeard said:

You think the parents actually gave informed consent?

You need to read histories on this because it’s complicated.  The main reason for having residential schools was that it was economically impossible to build day schools for every far-flung remote community.  It still is, which is why residential schools still exist but now under Indigenous instruction (depression, drug abuse, and suicide persist at these cites).

Indian Act agents collected students who didn’t attend because education was deemed mandatory and many Indigenous parents did support this to some extent.   Kids could get out of attending school if there was work to be done in the reserve or community.

Abuse took place in most schools, committed by some individuals.  There were also good people working in all schools, including residential schools. Discipline was much harsher than today in all schools.

 I’m sure more abuse took place in residential schools due to racism and opportunity.   Underfunding and overcrowding created added health problems.  There was clearly a mandate to educate Indigenous from the public and conditions in Indigenous communities generally were substantially worse than in settler communities.  Was it generally better to provide education and literacy than not?  How should it have been done differently and was the settler population that provided education equipped to know and do better?  Clearly, abusers are bad. 

Edited February 23, 2023 by Zeitgeist

[CdnFox]

6 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

 

Indian Act agents collected students who didn’t attend because education was deemed mandatory and many Indigenous parents did support this to some extent.   Kids could get out of attending school if there was work to be done in the reserve or community.

It wasn't manditory till the 20's, and even then as you say could be excused. So the program was in place a long time, enough for several generations to get through the system, before they were 'forced' to.

6 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

Abuse took place in most schools, committed by some individuals.  There were also good people working in all schools, including residential schools. Discipline was much harsher than today in all schools.

A friend of mine noted that when he grew up about  80 years ago in a catholic orphanage in quebec the discipline and conditions were about the same as described. I don't think it had much to do with first nations, i think that's just how they were.

Compare that to the nazi-level food starvation experiments in sask residential schools. I have no idea why THAT's not the hot topic when it comes to residential schools.

 

Edited February 23, 2023 by CdnFox

[TreeBeard]

18 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

You think they didn't? What, you think that first nations people are just too stupid to understand things?  Too dumb to ask questions, and just let their kids go there without a single thought? Because they're first nations? That's a pretty racist question.

Despite what you may think first nations people are not stupid. And many visited the schools, and of course most of the kids got to go home over summer and the parents could speak to them then.

So they were as informed as anyone could be.

Says the guy who was in favour of educating the “savages”.  
 

You don’t have to be dumb to be fooled by a government that took your land and shoved you onto reservations.  
 

Looking at the ideal situations that happened at the time, even if it was the majority of the time, downplays the atrocities that did take place.  “They got to see their parents on summer break”. 

Edited February 23, 2023 by TreeBeard

[eyeball]

1 hour ago, Zeitgeist said:

I have only sympathy and compassion for anyone who suffers rape and other injustices.  Such people are victims deserving of justice.

Yes but you clearly feel like you're a victim too or that you've unfairly had to reconcile more than others have. Try putting yourself in a commercial fisherman's gumboots and see how you like reconciliation.

I became reconciled to reconciliation in a far more direct way as a fisherman and as a next door neighbour with a property line that actually abuts a 1st Nation reserve now better known as a territory.  It took time but I'm in a better place all around because I also learned why reconciliation is required and what it is that happened or didn't happen as the case may be that left me more exposed to liability than you can probably even imagine.

Nowadays I sit back and laugh at the way you people carry on about big governments and big corporate interests colluding to screw us and native people alike over.   You sound like me 25 35 years ago when I woke up to this but of course in those days people such as you would be calling me a commie for trying to point it out.

Now you call me a Nazi for laughing you.

?

Edited February 23, 2023 by eyeball
25 years I said? Time sure flies when you're having fun.

[eyeball]

18 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

I did. 

Bullshit you did. Either quote the post highlight the words I said or go perch and rotate.

[CdnFox]

2 minutes ago, TreeBeard said:

Says the guy who was in favour of educating the “savages”.

Sorry - are you calling them savages now? I sure didn't.  Dude - you're starting to walk over a line

2 minutes ago, TreeBeard said:

 

You don’t have to be dumb to be fooled by a government that took your land and shoved you onto reservations. 

So you're saying they were dumb to have their land taken? 

One has nothing to do with the other. I see you can't address the point. Obviously they were informed.

2 minutes ago, TreeBeard said:

 

Looking at the ideal situations that happened at the time, even if it was the majority of the time, downplays the atrocities that did take place.  “They got to see their parents on summer break”. 

No it doesn't - that's insane leftist claptrap. The fact that some things were "Ideal" as you phrase it does in no way take away from the horror of the atrocities. Why would it? If 80 percent of a person's life was great and then they were killed horribly by the nazis, would that some how make the holocaust any less of a horrible thing?

Speaking the truth is always desirable. Whether it's convenient to your narrative or not. Fact is the first nations frequently visited teh schools, the kids went home in the summers and talked with their parents, there was plenty of information and this is something the first nations wanted. They made informed decisions. The fact there were some monsters lurking at some of these places is not an issue of 'informed' decisions.

[eyeball]

27 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

Actually still had it backwards. And as we can see you were wrong. Unless you're saying the residential schools are a GOOD thing.

Unless, WTF do you mean unless?  You sound like you doubt yourself now. Is that the topic now your doubt, or something else?

Maybe the hallucination you're having this discussion with knows wtf you're talking about but it doesn't look like you do.

[eyeball]

27 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

You're not one of those losers who just keeps asking people to point the same thing out again and again and again as some sort of pathetic failed debate technique are you?

Not at all but I'm pretty sure you're the type of loser who resorts to this when asked to explain WTF they're thinking.

 

[eyeball]

22 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

Clearly, abusers are bad. 

So how does bringing up the bad behaviour of the victim's ancestors mitigate our ancestor's bad behaviour?  Unpack that for me please.  Of all the reasons to eschew reconciliation this reason in particular seems the most retarded, especially in light of our awareness that doing unto others as we'd have them do unto us is the appropriate course of action in virtually every other circumstance.

I sat in on a few treaty talks and I don't recall anyone ever using whataboutism as a reason to dial back reconciliation.

[CdnFox]

48 minutes ago, eyeball said:

 

 

Kinda looks like your attempts to explain all the things you've said you later regret.

Anyway - like i said, hatred and racism are bad things, you should probably try to avoid them moving forward.

[blackbird]

"The Bible tells us that Socialism is slavery and thievery. And anybody who has lived under Socialism can confirm it. Socialism destroys the Biblical work ethic and confiscates assets earned by producers and gives them to non-producers. This de-motivates producers and creates a cycle of sloth, poverty and dependence."

What Does the Bible Say About Socialism? – Faith Founded on Fact

Have you investigated the King James Bible and learned about Jesus Christ, the Savior?  He came into the world, suffered and died for your sins and mine.  Call upon Jesus Christ to be your Savior and believe the gospel that he died for your sins and rose from the dead and you will be saved. 

Edited February 23, 2023 by blackbird

[CdnFox]

41 minutes ago, eyeball said:

I sat in on a few treaty talks and I don't recall anyone ever using whataboutism as a reason to dial back reconciliation.

So you're saying that when two groups are reconciling, only one group should ever be allowed to bring up issues in the past?

I'm not sure you know what reconciliation is

[Dougie93]

21 minutes ago, blackbird said:

"The Bible tells us that Socialism is slavery and thievery. And anybody who has lived under Socialism can confirm it. Socialism destroys the Biblical work ethic and confiscates assets earned by producers and gives them to non-producers. This de-motivates producers and creates a cycle of sloth, poverty and dependence."

What Does the Bible Say About Socialism? – Faith Founded on Fact

Have you investigated the King James Bible and learned about Jesus Christ, the Savior?  He came into the world, suffered and died for your sins and mine.  Call upon Jesus Christ to be your Savior and believe the gospel that he died for your sins and rose from the dead and you will be saved. 

Socialism is a product of the German Christian Gnostic Georg Wilhelm Friedrich Hegel

Marx was simply his Young Hegelian protege

Socialism is in fact a product of Christianity

Socialism is derived from the Gnostic sect of Christianity

Gnostic from "gnosis", an Ancient Greek word meaning "ultimate knowledge"

the Swabian (South German) Christians are the ones who invented it

but furthermore,

how would the Bible possibly comment on an ideology which did not come about until 1900 years after the Gospels ?