Military in crises mode.

[Army Guy]

You know it is serious when the CDS spills the beans about current manning numbers, to the point when the entire military will stop all non-essential training and activities to concentrate on recruiting.  

CDS announces there is a crisis in manpower shortages, the number 10,000 short is not realistic, judging by the amount of people leaving the forces and the number of vacancies available, to put this into context the average infantry Bn should have 800 plus people today they are lucky to have 450...

CDS is worried about having the manpower to place soldiers in high intensity warfare...Without a standing army of professional soldiers, The nation risks sending in regular civilians with just basic training into combat, as we have done in all our previous wars. And the result is a very high causality rate an example of that is the new Russian soldiers in Ukraine right now. 

These people will be our sons and daughters, or grandchildren let that sink in... Everything in this country is in crises mode...and the Liberal voters can't see that for what it is. Something needs to be done quickly.

 

 

Edited October 7, 2022 by Army Guy

[Moonbox]

I know a few people who've recently left the Army.  One some sort of artillery piece run over his foot (he recovered and then left a year later) and the other was a logistics officer.  Neither of them had very positive things to say about their experiences, with most of the criticism focusing on a bloated and out-of-touch bureaucracy.  

I looked into it in my 20's and decided against it.  What is asked/expected out of you versus what you earn and the risks associated didn't make a lot of sense.  Why would an infantry recruit want to join and make $30-40k per year in some backwater base when they could literally make that as a shift supervisor at Tim Hortons, or as a low-skill labourer at a factory?  

I know it's not all about the money, but if it's not at least substantially better than low-skill minimum wage, you're only going to attract a small niche of adventurous patriots or the desperate and unemployed.  This permeates up the chain as well, with cream-of-the-crop airforce pilots being heavily outpaid by basic private sector positions.  

[Army Guy]

53 minutes ago, Moonbox said:

I know a few people who've recently left the Army.  One some sort of artillery piece run over his foot (he recovered and then left a year later) and the other was a logistics officer.  Neither of them had very positive things to say about their experiences, with most of the criticism focusing on a bloated and out-of-touch bureaucracy.  

I looked into it in my 20's and decided against it.  What is asked/expected out of you versus what you earn and the risks associated didn't make a lot of sense.  Why would an infantry recruit want to join and make $30-40k per year in some backwater base when they could literally make that as a shift supervisor at Tim Hortons, or as a low-skill labourer at a factory?  

I know it's not all about the money, but if it's not at least substantially better than low-skill minimum wage, you're only going to attract a small niche of adventurous patriots or the desperate and unemployed.  This permeates up the chain as well, with cream-of-the-crop airforce pilots being heavily outpaid by basic private sector positions.  

My son joined 4 Years ago as an Infanteer , and he says things are turning into a large shit show, lack of money for training or courses, discipline is almost nonexistent superiors are afraid of being canceled and look the other way, Equipment is either old or not very effective, made by the cheapest bidder, and the constant need to balance the flow charts, with the right amount of ethic people in the right positions, with a major drive to incorporate the LGBTQ community, in all jobs and ranks. we are so worried about the flow charts we have forgotten what it is they were created for.

Back in the day when i joined, i was clearing 400 bucks every 2 weeks, following in my father's footsteps, In NB, 400 bucks every 2 weeks plus food, and board was a dream... alot of soldiers with families at the time were on food stamps or going to food banks, the media got a hold of that and ran with it, and with great public support things changed. You won't see that again.... today soldiers don't complain too much about pay, Canadians are either the number one or number two country with the highest paid members... After 4 years and receiving your corporals your making 65 K gross... Officers make much more than that. Can't find a job like that here in the Maritimes for a teenager with no experience. 

It was seen to learn a trade, serve your country for a few years and then start life with a little kick start. Not that way today the public does not know enough about the military to give them a chance at jobs, they don't understand military jobs and what translates or transfers over to what they are looking for in a civilian job position. There are exceptions but not many.  

[Moonbox]

31 minutes ago, Army Guy said:

My son joined 4 Years ago as an Infanteer , and he says things are turning into a large shit show, lack of money for training or courses, discipline is almost nonexistent superiors are afraid of being canceled and look the other way, Equipment is either old or not very effective, made by the cheapest bidder, and the constant need to balance the flow charts, with the right amount of ethic people in the right positions, with a major drive to incorporate the LGBTQ community, in all jobs and ranks. we are so worried about the flow charts we have forgotten what it is they were created for.

I am usually supportive of efforts to include minorities, but not at the expense of the overall objective.  Making sure the armed forces is safe for women or gays or whatever is fine, but as in most cases I imagine it goes too far in CAF and the bureaucracy forgets that the overall objective is to maintain combat capability/readiness rather than massage hurt feelings and make sure you have a pinked haired trans person of at least Bgen rank.  

I've a friend who's father used to own a major footwear company and he worked for years trying to secure a contract to supply army boots to the Canadian military.  Perhaps you could attest, but from what I understood the CAF army boot was at the time an ancient, uncomfortable and outdated design.  A more comfortable, more durable, more effective , more customizable and cheaper boot was available, but the archaic and nonsensical design specs for an army mired any attempt to improve it in years of red tape.  They apparently spent years providing reimbursements and orthodics so soldiers could source their own boots and not be trudging around with what they called "hockey pucks taped to your sole".  

31 minutes ago, Army Guy said:

Back in the day when i joined, i was clearing 400 bucks every 2 weeks, following in my father's footsteps, In NB, 400 bucks every 2 weeks plus food, and board was a dream... alot of soldiers with families at the time were on food stamps or going to food banks, the media got a hold of that and ran with it, and with great public support things changed. You won't see that again.... today soldiers don't complain too much about pay, Canadians are either the number one or number two country with the highest paid members... After 4 years and receiving your corporals your making 65 K gross... Officers make much more than that. Can't find a job like that here in the Maritimes for a teenager with no experience. 

You would know better than me.  I was just reading from the CAF website what the starting salary is for recruits .  I just know that here in SW Ontario you could go years without speaking to or even knowing someone (or of someone) in the military.  

31 minutes ago, Army Guy said:

It was seen to learn a trade, serve your country for a few years and then start life with a little kick start. Not that way today the public does not know enough about the military to give them a chance at jobs, they don't understand military jobs and what translates or transfers over to what they are looking for in a civilian job position. There are exceptions but not many.  

My friend whose foot was run over by the artillery piece immediately got a job as a supervisor building wind/solar farms in Northern Ontario and Alberta making $120k+ a year.  The company had such great experience with ex-military that he was asked to recruit any friends or colleagues he knew that had recently left the force as well.  

[I am Groot]

This is what I have heard.

The bases are rotting, the buildings moldy and decrepit. That includes base housing. Many of the postings are in the boonies, where spouses don't want to live. The military moves you around every couple of years for no good reason, and that upsets spouses and kids. The discipline, in a lot of ways, is stupid, demoralizing, bullying, and intransigent. On top of that, the shortage of personnel means many people are working long hours and covering two or more positions. Shipping out in the navy is a constant hassle of covering your duties and the missing other guy's too. The more people leave the harder the remainder have to work. Without overtime or much thanks. And that just leads to more people leaving. And, of course, the equipment is rusting out, obsolete, barely functioning, or missing entirely. People see the good job environment in the country now and ask themselves why the hell they're in the military? It's not like anyone, especially the government, is showing them any thanks or respect, after all.

That's' the retention problem.

The recruitment problem is an ongoing mess (as in ongoing for decades) wherein some bright eyed young thing comes in and signs up, then goes home and eagerly waits their phone call to tell them when the come in and start training. .And waits... and waits... and waits... as weeks turn into months and months turn into a year or more. Sometimes their files simply get lost and they have to start over.

Edited October 6, 2022 by I am Groot

[Aristides]

Fergus has a tattoo? Cool. My ancestor settled there when he immigrated from England in the 1840's.

Went to the Edinburgh Tattoo in 2015. Maybe the best show I have ever seen.

 

 

 

PS: Pre Trump, before the world went nuts.

Fergus is a beautiful historic town BTW.

Edited October 7, 2022 by Aristides

[Army Guy]

4 hours ago, Moonbox said:

1.  I am usually supportive of efforts to include minorities, but not at the expense of the overall objective.  Making sure the armed forces is safe for women or gays or whatever is fine, but as in most cases I imagine it goes too far in CAF and the bureaucracy forgets that the overall objective is to maintain combat capability/readiness rather than massage hurt feelings and make sure you have a pinked haired trans person of at least Bgen rank.  

2... I've a friend who's father used to own a major footwear company and he worked for years trying to secure a contract to supply army boots to the Canadian military.  Perhaps you could attest, but from what I understood the CAF army boot was at the time an ancient, uncomfortable and outdated design.  A more comfortable, more durable, more effective , more customizable and cheaper boot was available, but the archaic and nonsensical design specs for an army mired any attempt to improve it in years of red tape.  They apparently spent years providing reimbursements and orthodics so soldiers could source their own boots and not be trudging around with what they called "hockey pucks taped to your sole".  

3...You would know better than me.  I was just reading from the CAF website what the starting salary is for recruits .  I just know that here in SW Ontario you could go years without speaking to or even knowing someone (or of someone) in the military.  

4...My friend whose foot was run over by the artillery piece immediately got a job as a supervisor building wind/solar farms in Northern Ontario and Alberta making $120k+ a year.  The company had such great experience with ex-military that he was asked to recruit any friends or colleagues he knew that had recently left the force as well.  

1... No company or organization should be run by flow charts alone, it leaves behind those with the education and experience that can and does save lives. The government needs to stay out of basic military matters, and its interference only complicates things a million times over. 

2. Our basic combat boot replicated the Kodiac work boot, with the thin sole and v pattern tread, the ones that we used to Bumper shine cars as a kid. Soldiers would pay to have those boots resoled, with vibram soles, but yes changing anything in the military is very complicated, EXFLYER worked in Ottawa, and he does not paint a pretty picture, it is designed that way to make purchasing almost impossible. Political requirements such as creating jobs, off sets, etc, take priority over military needs and wants. Today soldiers are paid to purchase their own boots or given a choice of several types, much better than when i joined. when we used to purchase more than 1/2 our equipment becasue the issued stuff just sucked, Afghanistan most purchased American plate carriers and tac vests as ours only held 5, 30 round magazines, politicians had said we did not need more than 5 mags, troops normally carried 10 or more mags on extended ops way more than that.

3. Yes recruits do not get a very good wage, but in 4 years' time and a lot of training they will be making 65 k a year or more. Not many people join the military to get rich, it is more of serving your nation, working alongside the best Canadians this country has to offer, who would risk and give their life for you or anyone in uniform. that and you get to do all the cool stuff, fly in helicopters at tree top level, blow stuff up, fire weapons one could only dream off, drive most military machines form IFV to Tanks, get to do domestic ops (helping Canadians during tough times) and also help people from other nations that need a helping hand. The money is nice but i think for me it played a secondary role. 

4. When i retired i went to dozens of job interviews, even had a professional resume writer do my resume up. One guy asked me why the military guys were always yelling at people, he seen to many movies, they thought most of my resume was fake becasue of the qualifications i had, hundreds of troops multimillion of dollars' worth of equipment, i got more your overqualified than anything. all i wanted was a relaxed in a no responsibility job, where no one reported to me. I got alot of negative feedback about sorry we don't hire military guys, or you guys are too rigid.  or the best one was what did you do in the army, i would have to lie becasue killing bad guys was not an acceptable answer, more like i was a clerk or logistic guy. 

[Moonbox]

10 minutes ago, Army Guy said:

1... No company or organization should be run by flow charts alone, it leaves behind those with the education and experience that can and does save lives. The government needs to stay out of basic military matters, and its interference only complicates things a million times over. 

No doubt.  

10 minutes ago, Army Guy said:

2. Our basic combat boot replicated the Kodiac work boot, with the thin sole and v pattern tread, the ones that we used to Bumper shine cars as a kid. 

Yeah my friend's dad was the owner of Kodiak, but from hearing him tell he went through hell trying to get a better/cheaper and more modern boot as the standard and it was like talking to walls.  

10 minutes ago, Army Guy said:

4. When i retired i went to dozens of job interviews, even had a professional resume writer do my resume up. One guy asked me why the military guys were always yelling at people, he seen to many movies, they thought most of my resume was fake becasue of the qualifications i had, hundreds of troops multimillion of dollars' worth of equipment, i got more your overqualified than anything. all i wanted was a relaxed in a no responsibility job, where no one reported to me. I got alot of negative feedback about sorry we don't hire military guys, or you guys are too rigid.  or the best one was what did you do in the army, i would have to lie becasue killing bad guys was not an acceptable answer, more like i was a clerk or logistic guy. 

That's unfortunate, given western soldiers are trained to be flexible, innovative and resilient.  Imagine thinking that people trained to make decisions and solve problems in literally the harshest and most dangerous conditions are "too rigid'.  Makes you want to slap someone.  

[Moonlight Graham]

Some of the inclusiveness/diversity efforts are to create a safer and more welcoming environment for today's youth to recruit.  You can't fill an army filled with straight white male kids anymore.  POC may see it as not very welcoming to racial minorities, nor women (like the recent sexual harassment scandals).  They need a culture change and are trying.

This government is an embarrassment to our military.  They have their priorities shoved up their bottoms.  They are the definition of decadence.  They're too busy signaling their virtue.  Some of the people at the top are an embarrassment too, looking at the sexual harassment scandals.  At least this government is good at women's rights so they can help fix that problem.

If this were 40 years ago and we didn't have many women in the military would we even have a military?  What would the numbers be like?

 

[Army Guy]

4 hours ago, I am Groot said:

This is what I have heard.

The bases are rotting, the buildings moldy and decrepit. That includes base housing. Many of the postings are in the boonies, where spouses don't want to live. The military moves you around every couple of years for no good reason, and that upsets spouses and kids. The discipline, in a lot of ways, is stupid, demoralizing, bullying, and intransigent. On top of that, the shortage of personnel means many people are working long hours and covering two or more positions. Shipping out in the navy is a constant hassle of covering your duties and the missing other guy's too. The more people leave the harder the remainder have to work. Without overtime or much thanks. And that just leads to more people leaving. And, of course, the equipment is rusting out, obsolete, barely functioning, or missing entirely. People see the good job environment in the country now and ask themselves why the hell they're in the military? It's not like anyone, especially the government, is showing them any thanks or respect, after all.

That's' the retention problem.

The recruitment problem is an ongoing mess (as in ongoing for decades) wherein some bright eyed young thing comes in and signs up, then goes home and eagerly waits their phone call to tell them when the come in and start training. .And waits... and waits... and waits... as weeks turn into months and months turn into a year or more. Sometimes their files simply get lost and they have to start over.

For the most part the buildings are in decent shape , they been modernized to make them livable, but most PMQ's or married quarters were built in the early 50"s when family space in a home was not that large. and they are building new infra structure, but that is a rare thing, there is just not enough funding available.

todays posting for NCO's is 6 to 12 years, officers move around a lot faster, 2 to 4 years, and yes there are many postings that you won't see in Canada's travel guides. but to be fair there are overseas postings 3 to 5 years, posting in the states, so not all of them are bad.

Discipline is tough or it used to be, we all need to remember these men and women will go into combat and may be asked to give their lives for the collective, and normally their is no time to explain why. ther might be some mild hazing still going on, nothing like what got the Airborne disbanded, and Bullies don't last long.

When you take in all the reasons sections of 10 are under manned your looking at bored, nothing challenging to do so they quit, sick or unfit for training, family issues, babies, military courses, holidays, your whittled down to 4 or 5 guys , but the workload is the same, so yea they are working hard and burn out is happening. Over time no such thing, you might get lucky and get a few free days off after a long deployment or exercise.

Equipment is old some of it really old, or not enough of it to go around, i can remember just before i retired the LSVW we had the floors were so rotted you could see the ground, that was in 2014, they still have not replaced them today. Most of the wheel vehicle fleet is that way, with exception of the new trucks to replace the MLVW...lots of horror stories about equipment. 

that's the new standards, that place extra weight on the system, if a recruit comes in and can not perform the minimum standard for PT, then they can be placed on what we use to call fat camp, here each recruit is give one mission get fit enough to pass the minimum requirement, trust me it is not that hard, i still do it at 59. these fat camp people along with anyone who gets injured are holding spots up, until they either quit on their own, or it takes them a long time to heal or get fit... until that happens they are taking a spot for someone else. 

and recruiting is normally pretty busy, and they are human, and make mistakes, shit happens, but there is only so much funding and so much time. And with less and less of it to go around things get cut, like unit training, or needed courses all have a dollar value, it use to be we were training 8 months out of the year, divorces were through the roof, now a soldier might get luck and train 30 days out of the whole year.. and when they get bored by not training or being challenged, they lose interest and quit. Combine it all and you get a perfect storm. But this is not just a DND problem it is with every government department like RCMP, Coast Guard, CSIS, etc. 

shit 6 drunken Russians in a rowboat armed with old muskets could pose a security threat today. 

[Moonlight Graham]

When you talk to soldiers, they get some discounts on everyday stuff like restaurants, movie tickets, travel etc for being in the military.  You hear them talk about when they go down to the US for vacation and how the Americans honour their discounts even as Canadians, and how many more businesses and organizations give them the discounts.  They respect their soldiers a lot more in the US.

My grandfather said he'd never use the discounts, he didn't serve for freebies.  He'd never go to the Legion, a bunch of drunken idiots they mostly were he said.  But I don't begrudge any soldier for taking advantage of the meager benefits they're offered, they deserve it.

[Army Guy]

3 minutes ago, Moonlight Graham said:

Some of the inclusiveness/diversity efforts are to create a safer and more welcoming environment for today's youth to recruit.  You can't fill an army filled with straight white male kids anymore.  POC may see it as not very welcoming to racial minorities, nor women (like the recent sexual harassment scandals).  They need a culture change and are trying.

This government is an embarrassment to our military.  They have their priorities shoved up their bottoms.  They are the definition of decadence.  They're too busy signaling their virtue.  Some of the people at the top are an embarrassment too, looking at the sexual harassment scandals.  At least this government is good at women's rights so they can help fix that problem.

If this were 40 years ago and we didn't have many women in the military would we even have a military?  What would the numbers be like?

 

One has to balance a lot of things in the military, and while having a diverse organization at every level may be important in some jobs, one has to prioritize what you want it to do, if we where handing out teddy bears and blankets then yes it would play a major role, but most of the military job is to close with and destroy our nations enemies, lives are at risk everyday, be it training or on deployment. i would suggest hiring and promoting on merit, experience and job knowledge.

 Alot of immigrants come from nations where their military is used as a policing force and they fear it, so yes they are not interested in a carear in the military. Women have never had equal rights in any company or organization, with a few exceptions like nursing, teachers, in the military the government split the military into male and female groups each having very different standards, both getting the same pay but not performing the same work, this is a source of contention among men. example in Afghanistan my ruck sack weighed in at 140 lbs, most women do not weigh in at that weight, so most cannot accomplish that task, but that load has to be carried by someone... trust me carring 140 lbs all day and most of the night kicked my ass...there are exceptions to the rules I've gone into combat with some very physical women that pulled their weight regardless of condition or environment, so it can be done, they have paved that road already... but in the combat arms trades there should be one standard, and one only make it, then fine welcome aboard, can't then pick another job or trade, like support. I to believe in women rights, but I'm also a firm believer one person one kit, you carry your load or find another job, my life depends on it...that's not promoting a poisoned work environment that's preserving life.

Sexual scandals are not just a military problem, it is a Canadian problem across the board, the military is high profile, but they have had the same issues with RCMP, Coast Guard, CSIS, police forces across the country, fire halls, hospitals, you get the point. The government is not going to fix the problem, not with solutions they have come up with already, allowing soldiers to have long hair of any color wear facial jewery, males can have man buns or wear dress... this solution, is not going to attract more recruits it is going to increase the shortage as more are getting out.

40 years ago, our military numbers sat at around 93,k women today only make up less that 15 % of the total force. 

[Moonlight Graham]

3 minutes ago, Army Guy said:

One has to balance a lot of things in the military, and while having a diverse organization at every level may be important in some jobs, one has to prioritize what you want it to do, if we where handing out teddy bears and blankets then yes it would play a major role, but most of the military job is to close with and destroy our nations enemies, lives are at risk everyday, be it training or on deployment. i would suggest hiring and promoting on merit, experience and job knowledge.

 Alot of immigrants come from nations where their military is used as a policing force and they fear it, so yes they are not interested in a carear in the military. Women have never had equal rights in any company or organization, with a few exceptions like nursing, teachers, in the military the government split the military into male and female groups each having very different standards, both getting the same pay but not performing the same work, this is a source of contention among men. example in Afghanistan my ruck sack weighed in at 140 lbs, most women do not weigh in at that weight, so most cannot accomplish that task, but that load has to be carried by someone... trust me carring 140 lbs all day and most of the night kicked my ass...there are exceptions to the rules I've gone into combat with some very physical women that pulled their weight regardless of condition or environment, so it can be done, they have paved that road already... but in the combat arms trades there should be one standard, and one only make it, then fine welcome aboard, can't then pick another job or trade, like support. I to believe in women rights, but I'm also a firm believer one person one kit, you carry your load or find another job, my life depends on it...that's not promoting a poisoned work environment that's preserving life.

Sexual scandals are not just a military problem, it is a Canadian problem across the board, the military is high profile, but they have had the same issues with RCMP, Coast Guard, CSIS, police forces across the country, fire halls, hospitals, you get the point. The government is not going to fix the problem, not with solutions they have come up with already, allowing soldiers to have long hair of any color wear facial jewery, males can have man buns or wear dress... this solution, is not going to attract more recruits it is going to increase the shortage as more are getting out.

40 years ago, our military numbers sat at around 93,k women today only make up less that 15 % of the total force. 

Yes I agree with all of this.   I'm not saying hire based on diversity or hire women and lower standards, i'm saying the culture needs to be changed, in terms of how these people are treated in the military and it's not the white boys club anymore, so that anyone who wants to join will feel welcomed if they can do the job.  But I'm sure there are many reasons for the recruiting problem.

I've worked with all men in the trades, a lot of them can be pigs.  Not all of course.

[Army Guy]

20 minutes ago, Moonlight Graham said:

When you talk to soldiers, they get some discounts on everyday stuff like restaurants, movie tickets, travel etc for being in the military.  You hear them talk about when they go down to the US for vacation and how the Americans honour their discounts even as Canadians, and how many more businesses and organizations give them the discounts.  They respect their soldiers a lot more in the US.

My grandfather said he'd never use the discounts, he didn't serve for freebies.  He'd never go to the Legion, a bunch of drunken idiots they mostly were he said.  But I don't begrudge any soldier for taking advantage of the meager benefits they're offered, they deserve it.

It is true many organizations do offer soldiers discounts, mostly 10% off, every bit counts, and it is much welcomed, many other government benefits were taken away, like married housing was discounted well below the market value off base, people complained and now housing is at the same cost as downtown, they used to have medical and dental for dependance free of charge, someone complained and that was cut. Canex use to have a good discount on food, cars, furniture now it is all price to be competitive with downtown. 

America is a lot more patriotic than Canada, and that transfers on how the public treats them, but they are having some of the same problems we are having in regard to vets, and mental health issues, it is private organizations that are picking up the slack, even in Canada there is a lot of private organizations that are doing more for our vets than the government is doing on a good day. I will note Veterans affairs has treated me like a million bucks, but not all vets have the same outcome, PTSD is a bitch, and it can turn someone into a bumhole very quickly.

 

[Army Guy]

4 minutes ago, Moonlight Graham said:

Yes I agree with all of this.   I'm not saying hire based on diversity or hire women and lower standards, i'm saying the culture needs to be changed, in terms of how these people are treated in the military and it's not the white boys club anymore, so that anyone who wants to join will feel welcomed if they can do the job.  But I'm sure there are many reasons for the recruiting problem.

I've worked with all men in the trades, a lot of them can be pigs.  Not all of course.

I agree there are many things in the military that need to be changed, the culture needs to be tweaked, remember these guys a A type and don't adapt well to normal settings that most Canadians are use to, one of those things is bring back one standard, which will cut alot of problems with women not being treated as equals, when they don't perform to the same physical standard. I will give credit where credit is due, most women in the combat arms have proven themselves beyond a shadow of doubt, but whatever inroads they have made are also taken down by women who don't even try and play I'm a women card. 

It is a white boy's organization, becasue that who is drawn into it. it is getting better, meaning it has more ethic cultures in it now, but i think those are 2 and or 3 rd generation Canadians with ethnic backgrounds.  If you notice the DND commercials they are diverse, and in some cases they are looking at specific ethics groups and sex such as some job adds will say if you're a black woman you'll be given priority status. Which is keeping up with the flow charts. I personally don't care if your green with massive warts on your bits, i want to know can you fight and can i trust you with my life. 

My father used to say it takes all kinds to make a village, and some where pigs are included, and Canadians have not conquered that yet. 

[August1991]

9 hours ago, Army Guy said:

You know it is serious when the CDS spills the beans about current manning numbers, to the point when the entire military will stop all non-essential training and activities to concentrate on recruiting.  

....

I don't know about Canada's situation but I have my own perspective.

====

As Trudeau Jnr famously said, "I'll whip it out."

For politicians when they meet, it's how much each can order up/control. Usually it's the money they can spend. Biden has a large GDP that he can tax, take a share of.

But it's also the number of young men willing to join - the ultimate tax.

 

[Army Guy]

13 hours ago, August1991 said:

I don't know about Canada's situation but I have my own perspective.

====

As Trudeau Jnr famously said, "I'll whip it out."

For politicians when they meet, it's how much each can order up/control. Usually it's the money they can spend. Biden has a large GDP that he can tax, take a share of.

But it's also the number of young men willing to join - the ultimate tax.

 

This is one of the missing pieces that this nation lacks, the majority of Canadians don't have any knowledge of their own military or how it works, nor could they be bothered to learn something about it. 

Justin is all that and a basket of turd, all words no action. 

Without the public approval nothing will ever change in that regard, thanks for your concern. 

In order to attract men and women one needs to at least pretend that national defense is a thing, and not just a place to spend tax dollars.  

[August1991]

On 10/7/2022 at 1:20 PM, Army Guy said:

....

In order to attract men and women one needs to at least pretend that national defense is a thing, and not just a place to spend tax dollars.  

When Putin ordered up, commissioned - he was showing what Russia is capable of doing.

As Putin famously said about North Korea, "They will eat grass."

=====

Federal America is willing to borrow another $60 billion from the Chinese and send these munitions to Ukraine, but are ordinary Americans willing to eat grass.

In 1941, ordinary Americans did not eat grass.

[Dougie93]

On 10/7/2022 at 1:20 PM, Army Guy said:

This is one of the missing pieces that this nation lacks, the majority of Canadians don't have any knowledge of their own military or how it works, nor could they be bothered to learn something about it.

in fairness, DND does an absolutely pathetic job of communicating with the public

DND is highly secretive, trying hide what it is doing from Canadians, keeping everything close to the vest

then the Canadian media trashes the military constantly, only focusing only on any scandals they can gin up

then the government itself has now declared the military to be an inherently "racist misogynist" institution

then they wonder why they can't fill the ranks with recruits

[Army Guy]

CDS repeats what he has been trying to tell Canadians for years now, the military is so short on people they can't come up with instructors to teach the new generation their numbers of only being short 10k are bull crap. To be that short enough to be in crises mode, it is much larger than that.

It seems everything in this country needs to be fixed, but liberal voters can't see that, they are more interested in Climate change, gender identity, being woke, and shouting down anything not in the liberal boathouse. If there was ever a time for Canadians to band together it is now, send our politicians a clear message get to work or get out. A guy can dream can he not. 

Jesse Kline: Armed Forces admit there's no one left to use its rusted out gear (msn.com)

Edited October 12, 2022 by Army Guy

[Dougie93]

9 hours ago, Army Guy said:

It seems everything in this country needs to be fixed, but liberal voters can't see that,

no, liberal voters think everything needs to be fixed as well

they have simply adopted the religion of Social Justice

so fixing things to them, consists of obsessing ceaselessly about race & gender

so that is how they are fixing things

[Dougie93]

9 hours ago, Army Guy said:

If there was ever a time for Canadians to band together it is now

Canadians are banding together, under the banner of Social Justice & Environmentalism

the purpose of the military therein, is simply to support the ongoing hysterical moral panic

and the military is embracing it, the military has gone totally woke, pandering to the mob

so careful what you wish for

[myata]

Healthcare too. Clean water crisis decades from fixing if ever. Tax rate among the highest in the developed world. MP salary, too.

[ExFlyer]

On 10/6/2022 at 10:29 PM, Moonlight Graham said:

Some of the inclusiveness/diversity efforts are to create a safer and more welcoming environment for today's youth to recruit.  You can't fill an army filled with straight white male kids anymore.  POC may see it as not very welcoming to racial minorities, nor women (like the recent sexual harassment scandals).  They need a culture change and are trying.

This government is an embarrassment to our military.  They have their priorities shoved up their bottoms.  They are the definition of decadence.  They're too busy signaling their virtue.  Some of the people at the top are an embarrassment too, looking at the sexual harassment scandals.  At least this government is good at women's rights so they can help fix that problem.

If this were 40 years ago and we didn't have many women in the military would we even have a military?  What would the numbers be like?

 

As an old timer ex military, I can assure you that we did have more than just white straight males, in the Air Force anyway. I had a crew of aircraft mechanics that were 50% women. Great techs too, Still friends after all these years

Problem/issues with women in the aviation trades is that they did not stick around long for various reasons and marriage and kids were priority. If they stayed, being deployed was also a big reason for them getting out.

There were always a lot of women in the logistics, administration and medical and several other fields. Yes, there were (and are) few in the combat occupations but, the physicality of those occupations makes it difficult for most of them but as a whole, there were always women in the Military.

[Nationalist]

On 10/6/2022 at 10:29 PM, Moonlight Graham said:

Some of the inclusiveness/diversity efforts are to create a safer and more welcoming environment for today's youth to recruit.  You can't fill an army filled with straight white male kids anymore.  POC may see it as not very welcoming to racial minorities, nor women (like the recent sexual harassment scandals).  They need a culture change and are trying.

This government is an embarrassment to our military.  They have their priorities shoved up their bottoms.  They are the definition of decadence.  They're too busy signaling their virtue.  Some of the people at the top are an embarrassment too, looking at the sexual harassment scandals.  At least this government is good at women's rights so they can help fix that problem.

If this were 40 years ago and we didn't have many women in the military would we even have a military?  What would the numbers be like?

 

The Canadian military has been morphed into a virtue signalling, lame-ass group of SJWs.

Its an embarrassment and likely couldn't defend a house...let alone a nation.