Russian Army collapsing - the unsurprising failure of a police-state

[WestCanMan]

9 hours ago, DUI_Offender said:

Well Ukraine could have given 1/3 of their territory and installed a Kremlin-friendly leader to power in order to avoid war, but as we ahve seen throughout history, appeasement almost never works.

This is an absolute horrible take. First off, it is Zelenskyy. Secondly, do you know anything of the history of the Ukraine?  Russia has been invading and occupying the countr

 

 

Ask the majority of the Ukrainian population this.  They are literally fighting for the lives, in order to preserve the sovereignty of their country.  I have not seen a conflict so cut and dry as to how is the bad guy and who is the good guy as the Russia-Ukraine War.  It boggles the mind how some here are rooting for a dictator, who is heel bent on destroying an ethnic group and nation. 

History will be kind to Zelenskyy and the courageous men who fought the Russian aggressors.

 

As opposed to the Kremlin propaganda that you are spoon fed?

This is ALL about Ukraine's push to join NATO. If he didn't do that, there would have been no war. 

"Not one inch past Germany" turned into "NATO all up in Russia's grille". Obama/Biden issue was all about this from '09 to 2016 and then again from 2021-now. 

Play stupid games, win stupid prizes. 

Putin is a liar and a bully and a murderer and a lot of other things, but this war isn't about those things, it's about NATO aggression. 

I was in NATO myself. I was in the Canadian navy for 3 years. I was trained to kill Russians. But we were never told that we'd be the a-holes. 

[Aristides]

13 minutes ago, WestCanMan said:

This is ALL about Ukraine's push to join NATO. If he didn't do that, there would have been no war. 

"Not one inch past Germany" turned into "NATO all up in Russia's grille". Obama/Biden issue was all about this from '09 to 2016 and then again from 2021-now. 

Play stupid games, win stupid prizes. 

Putin is a liar and a bully and a murderer and a lot of other things, but this war isn't about those things, it's about NATO aggression. 

I was in NATO myself. I was in the Canadian navy for 3 years. I was trained to kill Russians. But we were never told that we'd be the a-holes. 

Countries apply to join NATO, no one forces them. Considering what has happened, it's obvious Ukraine should have joined NATO, they would have never been invaded if they had been a member.

If Putin invaded to keep countries out of NATO he really f****d up because he got two new members on his northern border. Two new members with very capable militaries.

As well as weakening his own military, this war has shown how inept it is.

Edited November 28, 2023 by Aristides

[WestCanMan]

5 minutes ago, Aristides said:

Countries apply to join NATO, no one forces them. Considering what has happened, it's obvious Ukraine should have joined NATO, they would have never been invaded if they had been a member.

If Putin invaded to keep countries out of NATO he really f****d up because he got two new members on his northern border. Two new members with very capable militaries.

As well as weakening his own military, this war has shown how inept it is.

You only see the world from the end of your own nose. 

If Canada tried to join a military alliance with America's enemies, we would be invaded and that's that. The ink wouldn't be dry before the concept of Canada was a distant memory. 

This is Biden/Zelenski's war. Ukraine lost territory. End of story. 

[Aristides]

12 minutes ago, WestCanMan said:

You only see the world from the end of your own nose. 

If Canada tried to join a military alliance with America's enemies, we would be invaded and that's that. The ink wouldn't be dry before the concept of Canada was a distant memory. 

This is Biden/Zelenski's war. Ukraine lost territory. End of story. 

Why would we do that unless we thought we were already in danger of being invaded by the US? Russia had already annexed Crimea and was actively carrying on a proxy invasion in Donbas.  Ukraine had every reason to want to be a NATO member.

I don't know what world you live in.

Edited November 28, 2023 by Aristides

[WestCanMan]

33 minutes ago, Aristides said:

Why would we do that unless we thought we were already in danger of being invaded by the US? Russia had already annexed Crimea and was actively carrying on a proxy invasion in Donbas.  Ukraine had every reason to want to be a NATO member.

I don't know what world you live in.

Russia annexed Crimea because Biden and Obama were talking about Ukraine joining NATO all the way back in 2009. Period.

Part of the reason that Biden was even in Ukraine "helping them get rid of the corruption in their country" was so that they could eventually join NATO. The US was investing heavily in shoving NATO up Russia's ass when Obama was president. 

That's the world that we all live in, regardless of what you want to believe. 

I get that you personally dislike Putin. I get that he's a dictator. I get that Russia is, now more than ever before, an actual enemy of our country and of Canadians. But that doesn't alter the facts one bit. Russia didn't just do a land grab for no reason.

CRIMEA AS A PART OF NATO DOES NOT WORK FOR RUSSIA. NATO IN EASTERN UKRAINE DOES NOT WORK FOR RUSSIA. RUSSIA HAD NO CHOICE BUT GO TO WAR TO PREVENT THAT. 

Yeah, I get that CNN wants you to believe that Ukraine was only invaded because Putin is a weally bad guy, but CNN doesn't own your f'ing brain. You do. WTF would you do if you were Russia (not Putin but RUSSIA) and NATO was going to be in Crimea, so you'd lose your Sevastopol naval base there which dominates the Black Sea... American subs and ships would be operating from there...

You see the world through the eyes of a child. Obama/Biden's plan for NATO in Crimea and Ukraine is WAYYYYYY across Russia's red line. 

All that you're saying when you keep posting is that you don't have a f'ing clue why wars are fought, and what kind of consequences there are for sticking a military alliance in someone's face. 

I still have close friends who will die if end up at war with Russia. I don't treat this like a series of CNN/Putin talking points. It's real life, with real consequences and real wars. Stop thinking like a keyboard warrior and act like Canadian lives depend on us doing the right thing.

"NOT ONE INCH EASTWARD" (Past Germany). I got out of the Navy just after that. I was getting out when the Berlin wall was coming down. I actually had plans to go there with some of my friends after we got out, but two of them chickened out and stayed in the navy. 

That was a great time. The cold war was ramping down, bigtime. FFWD to 2009, suddenly it's a shitshow again because of hawkish Demonrat policies. The Dems and everyone dumb enough to support this can go straight to hell. 

We poked the bear, buh-bye Crimea and the Donbas. Play stupid games, win stupid prizes. 

"NOT ONE MORE F'ING DOLLAR FOR UKRAINE, learn to be better neighbours."

Edited November 28, 2023 by WestCanMan

[WestCanMan]

The flow of mney to Ukraine doesn't even end when this war is over. Ukraine has to be rebuilt, and the folks who egged Zelenski on will be obliged to help him put his country back together. 

Will we even do that, or will someone else be their sugar daddy? China loves giving out megabucks with a sweet deal on the back end for themselves. Will Russia be their heroes? Do we have enough money left to give away to prevent Ukraine from drifting further eastwards in their line of thinking? 

This was a joke. An expensive, deadly joke. 

[Aristides]

52 minutes ago, WestCanMan said:

Russia annexed Crimea because Biden and Obama were talking about Ukraine joining NATO all the way back in 2009. Period.

Part of the reason that Biden was even in Ukraine "helping them get rid of the corruption in their country" was so that they could eventually join NATO. The US was investing heavily in shoving NATO up Russia's ass when Obama was president. 

That's the world that we all live in, regardless of what you want to believe. 

I get that you personally dislike Putin. I get that he's a dictator. I get that Russia is, now more than ever before, an actual enemy of our country and of Canadians. But that doesn't alter the facts one bit. Russia didn't just do a land grab for no reason.

CRIMEA AS A PART OF NATO DOES NOT WORK FOR RUSSIA. NATO IN EASTERN UKRAINE DOES NOT WORK FOR RUSSIA. RUSSIA HAD NO CHOICE BUT GO TO WAR TO PREVENT THAT. 

Yeah, I get that CNN wants you to believe that Ukraine was only invaded because Putin is a weally bad guy, but CNN doesn't own your f'ing brain. You do. WTF would you do if you were Russia (not Putin but RUSSIA) and NATO was going to be in Crimea, so you'd lose your Sevastopol naval base there which dominates the Black Sea... American subs and ships would be operating from there...

You see the world through the eyes of a child. Obama/Biden's plan for NATO in Crimea and Ukraine is WAYYYYYY across Russia's red line. 

All that you're saying when you keep posting is that you don't have a f'ing clue why wars are fought, and what kind of consequences there are for sticking a military alliance in someone's face. 

I still have close friends who will die if end up at war with Russia. I don't treat this like a series of CNN/Putin talking points. It's real life, with real consequences and real wars. Stop thinking like a keyboard warrior and act like Canadian lives depend on us doing the right thing.

"NOT ONE INCH EASTWARD" (Past Germany). I got out of the Navy just after that. I was getting out when the Berlin wall was coming down. I actually had plans to go there with some of my friends after we got out, but two of them chickened out and stayed in the navy. 

That was a great time. The cold war was ramping down, bigtime. FFWD to 2009, suddenly it's a shitshow again because of hawkish Demonrat policies. The Dems and everyone dumb enough to support this can go straight to hell. 

We poked the bear, buh-bye Crimea and the Donbas. Play stupid games, win stupid prizes. 

"NOT ONE MORE F'ING DOLLAR FOR UKRAINE, learn to be better neighbours."

Russia invasion of Ukraine had nothing to do with NATO, Russia didn't even mention it as a reason for annexing Crimea or Donbas. It was all about taking back what Russia considered to be theirs and protecting so called ethnic Russians. Since then they have also occupied all the territory  between Donbas and Crimea and would dearly like to take Odessa as well to completely isolate what remains of Ukraine from the Black Sea and Sea of Azov. This has never been about anything but blatant aggression against a neighbour. Russia invaded Ukraine, I don't know how many times that needs to be said. Maybe Russia should learn to be a better neighbour so their neighbours don't feel the need to join a NATO to protect themselves from Russia. They lived under the Soviet yoke for almost 50 years and know what Russia is all about far  better than you or I.

Edited November 28, 2023 by Aristides

[taxme]

22 hours ago, DUI_Offender said:

You are like a horrible take machine.

 

Come back to the forum that Wilbur is a moderator at. We all respect you there.

What a comeback? What's the matter? Run out of lies and bullshit to post here now? 

[sharkman]

12 hours ago, DUI_Offender said:

Well Ukraine could have given 1/3 of their territory and installed a Kremlin-friendly leader to power in order to avoid war, but as we ahve seen throughout history, appeasement almost never works.

This is an absolute horrible take. First off, it is Zelenskyy. Secondly, do you know anything of the history of the Ukraine?  Russia has been invading and occupying the countr

 

 

Ask the majority of the Ukrainian population this.  They are literally fighting for the lives, in order to preserve the sovereignty of their country.  I have not seen a conflict so cut and dry as to how is the bad guy and who is the good guy as the Russia-Ukraine War.  It boggles the mind how some here are rooting for a dictator, who is heel bent on destroying an ethnic group and nation. 

History will be kind to Zelenskyy and the courageous men who fought the Russian aggressors.

 

As opposed to the Kremlin propaganda that you are spoon fed?

Now you may be getting the picture…

[DUI_Offender]

59 minutes ago, taxme said:

What a comeback? What's the matter? Run out of lies and bullshit to post here now? 

Don't take this the wrong way, but you remind me of head cheese.

You see, I am an uncircumcised man. And if I miss a shower, under my foreskin, I sometimes get this pasty white, foul smelling material.  If this happens, I immediately need to wash the "head cheese" under the foreskin of my penis to keep it clean.

You remind me of head cheese, since I have a urge to shower, and wash my genitalia when I read your posts.

[DUI_Offender]

2 hours ago, WestCanMan said:

The flow of mney to Ukraine doesn't even end when this war is over. Ukraine has to be rebuilt, and the folks who egged Zelenski on will be obliged to help him put his country back together. 

Will we even do that, or will someone else be their sugar daddy? China loves giving out megabucks with a sweet deal on the back end for themselves. Will Russia be their heroes? Do we have enough money left to give away to prevent Ukraine from drifting further eastwards in their line of thinking? 

This was a joke. An expensive, deadly joke. 

Once again, you spell his name wrong. Perhaps I can order you a "Spelling for 5th Graders"  kit.

If America builds up Ukraine to the point where they are a strong democracy, it will be very beneficial for America, just like they did with Germany, Japan, and Korea after WW2.  

PS....The reason for the Russian aggression into the Ukraine, was that they were drifting towards the West, not the east. I'm not sure where you get your information, or what obscure YouTube videos you ahve been watching, but maybe try legitimate news sources, to understand the conflict.

[DUI_Offender]

3 hours ago, WestCanMan said:

You only see the world from the end of your own nose. 

If Canada tried to join a military alliance with America's enemies, we would be invaded and that's that. The ink wouldn't be dry before the concept of Canada was a distant memory. 

This is Biden/Zelenski's war. Ukraine lost territory. End of story. 

I love it when grown men with a Grade 9 education level, pretend they know political issues. 

I suggest getting your GED, then enrolling in some history courses at your local college. It may take you a couple of years, but at least you will be able to debate with people here, who actually understand geopolitics.

 

 

Edited November 28, 2023 by DUI_Offender

[WestCanMan]

2 hours ago, Aristides said:

Russia invasion of Ukraine had nothing to do with NATO, 

Then why was Russia's condition for ending the war "agree that you'll never join NATO"?

Kinda weird, hey? 

[Aristides]

4 minutes ago, WestCanMan said:

Then why was Russia's condition for ending the war "agree that you'll never join NATO"?

Kinda weird, hey? 

You mean they will leave all the territory they have occupied if Ukraine agrees not to join NATO? Must have missed that little gem.

[WestCanMan]

35 minutes ago, DUI_Offender said:

Once again, you spell his name wrong. Perhaps I can order you a "Spelling for 5th Graders"  kit.

It's a foreign name, I've seen it spelled with 2 y's at the end, one y, an i, an iy, I really don't care. 

Quote

If America builds up Ukraine to the point where they are a strong democracy, it will be very beneficial for America, just like they did with Germany, Japan, and Korea after WW2.  

PS....The reason for the Russian aggression into the Ukraine, was that they were drifting towards the West, not the east. I'm not sure where you get your information, or what obscure YouTube videos you ahve been watching, but maybe try legitimate news sources, to understand the conflict.

Good luck with that. 

[WestCanMan]

35 minutes ago, DUI_Offender said:

I love it when grown men with a Grade 9 education level, pretend they know political issues. 

I suggest getting your GED, then enrolling in some history courses at your local college. It may take you a couple of years, but at least you will be able to debate with people here, who actually understand geopolitics.

I love it when leftards try to base an entire argument on ad-hominem attacks and sandbox insults. 

[WestCanMan]

4 minutes ago, Aristides said:

 if Ukraine agrees not to join NATO? Must have missed that little gem.

Ummmm... you do see the part about "if Ukraine agrees not to join NATO", right?

You just wrote it.

I thought you said that Russia's invasion had nothing to do with that? Why does it suddenly matter to them? Weird, hey? Dumbass.  

[Aristides]

36 minutes ago, WestCanMan said:

Ummmm... you do see the part about "if Ukraine agrees not to join NATO", right?

You just wrote it.

I thought you said that Russia's invasion had nothing to do with that? Why does it suddenly matter to them? Weird, hey? Dumbass.  

So Russia offered to leave all the territory it has occupied if Ukraine promises not to join NATO.

Need a link for that.

[WestCanMan]

Just now, Aristides said:

So Russia offered to leave all the territory it has occupied if Ukraine promises not to join NATO.

Need a link for that.

You said that Ukraine's threat to join NATO had nothing to do with Russia's invasion. Remember? 

Do you understand why Russia would need to keep all of that territory if Ukraine does join NATO? Do I have to f'ing spell this out for you? Should I write it with crayons? Draw you a picture? 

[Aristides]

1 minute ago, WestCanMan said:

You said that Ukraine's threat to join NATO had nothing to do with Russia's invasion. Remember? 

Do you understand why Russia would need to keep all of that territory if Ukraine does join NATO? Do I have to f'ing spell this out for you? Should I write it with crayons? Draw you a picture? 

So you are saying they will give the territory back if Ukraine promises not to join NATO. If that is all they are concerned about, they should give it back. No?

[WestCanMan]

Just now, Aristides said:

So you are saying they will give the territory back if Ukraine promises not to join NATO. If that is all they are concerned about, they should give it back. No?

I never said anything about giving the territory back, you did. I just quoted you. 

Russia did need Ukraine to swear off NATO though if they wanted peace. Are you unaware of that?

[Aristides]

9 minutes ago, WestCanMan said:

I never said anything about giving the territory back, you did. I just quoted you. 

Russia did need Ukraine to swear off NATO though if they wanted peace. Are you unaware of that?

So Russia should keep the territory and have Ukraine promise not to join NATO, leaving them naked to another invasion. 

Give me one reason Ukraine would be suicidal and crazy enough to agree to something like that? Then might as well surrender their whole country now. 

[WestCanMan]

57 minutes ago, Aristides said:

So Russia should keep the territory and have Ukraine promise not to join NATO, leaving them naked to another invasion. 

Give me one reason Ukraine would be suicidal and crazy enough to agree to something like that? Then might as well surrender their whole country now. 

A lot of Russians have died now. Ditto for Ukrainians. The options that were on the table before this started aren't necessarily there anymore. 

I don't know what both sides can/will do, but I know that it will get a lot worse before it gets better if Ukraine doesn't cease and desist with NATO for the time being. 

Will Ukraine likely benefit from this? No. 

[Aristides]

Just now, WestCanMan said:

A lot of Russians have died now. Ditto for Ukrainians. The options that were on the table before this started aren't necessarily there anymore. 

I don't know what both sides can/will do, but I know that it will get a lot worse before it gets better if Ukraine doesn't cease and desist with NATO for the time being. 

Will Ukraine likely benefit from this? No. 

Ukraine has every reason to want NATO membership and Russia has given it to them. Putin's word has been shown to be worth nothing and Ukraine would be foolish to ever take it again.

Quote

Putin claims Russia's plans "are not to occupy Ukraine" 

In an early morning address on national television, Russian President Vladimir Putin said: “Our plans are not to occupy Ukraine, we do not plan to impose ourselves on anyone."

Early Thursday morning, Putin said his troops will take military action in Donbas, the area of eastern Ukraine that contains the separatist-held regions of Donetsk and Luhansk which he recognized as independent on Monday.

Yet their first target was Kyiv itself.

[WestCanMan]

30 minutes ago, Aristides said:

Ukraine has every reason to want NATO membership and Russia has given it to them. Putin's word has been shown to be worth nothing and Ukraine would be foolish to ever take it again.

Yet their first target was Kyiv itself.

Was it really?

Maybe they just moved that way to draw the Ukrainian army north so that they could gain ground in the south more easily. They sure gave that ground up in a hurry, and they never sought to reclaim it...