Canada Must Exit Climate Agreement Immediately

[Yzermandius19]

14 minutes ago, eyeball said:

But that said he still thinks the governed are worse, for wanting to force the government to be answerable to us.

I think the governed are worse because they want the government to take away people's rights to implement centrally planned boondoggles

if they didn't, then the government would be punished by the electorate for doing so instead of rewarded

[eyeball]

8 minutes ago, Yzermandius19 said:

I think the governed are worse because they want the government to take away people's rights to implement centrally planned boondoggles

if they didn't, then the government would be punished by the electorate for doing so instead of rewarded

Christ on a stick...wtf turned you into such a cynical sociopath anyway?

All I can say is I sure hope you don't have the power to actually influence anyone especially anyone in government.

 

[Yzermandius19]

4 minutes ago, eyeball said:

Christ on a stick...wtf turned you into such a cynical sociopath anyway?

you never let reality get in the way of wishful thinking

you simply view people who understand reality as bad people

because you can't handle the truth and want an easy way to justify writing it off

[cougar]

7 hours ago, Nationalist said:

Maybe you should quit taking the word of twits with a long history of being dead wrong?

What twits?  Who is dead wrong?  The constant fires all over the world and the record breaking temperatures each and every new year are some sort of a hoax ???

Why do you even bother posting?  You may call the black white and believe it is.

[Yzermandius19]

2 minutes ago, cougar said:

What twits?  Who is dead wrong?  The constant fires all over the world and the record breaking temperatures each and every new year are some sort of a hoax ???

specific to general fallacy

[eyeball]

2 minutes ago, Yzermandius19 said:

you never let reality get in the way of wishful thinking

you simply view people who understand reality as bad people

because you can't handle the truth and want an easy way to justify writing it off

This is you you're describing, not me. Projection is a helluva drug as you people like to say - stands to reason addicts would know what they're talking about I guess.

[Yzermandius19]

4 minutes ago, eyeball said:

This is you you're describing, not me. Projection is a helluva drug as you people like to say - stands to reason addicts would know what they're talking about I guess.

where is my wishful thinking?

I say your simple "solutions" aren't realistic

you think your simple solutions is like waving a magic wand

it will fix government corruption and save the environment if people just supported your stupid policy proposals

that's wishful thinking

Edited July 25, 2022 by Yzermandius19

[cougar]

1 minute ago, Yzermandius19 said:

you think your simple solutions is like waving a magic wand

it will fix government corruption and save the environment if people just supported your stupid policy proposals

Don't know what proposal Eyeball is making, but this is what the situation looks like:

We need to limit carbon emissions which means we must start producing less of everything and consuming less of everything

- those plastic bags we don't need any more =  tens of thousands of employees making them being out of work

- those recreational vehicles we make, we don't need = tens of thousands of jobless employees

- those trees we cut that we do not have to cut, to save our asses = hundreds of thousands of forestry workers, equipment manufacturers, transportation agencies and government departments shedding redundant employees

- those mines we do not need any more  = hundreds of thousands of jobless

- those pipelines we do not need any more = hundreds of thousands of jobless

.........you can think of further consequences in just about every sector

What do we do with all those jobless people?????

Oh, we don't need those either because they are a burden on our environment and we can't even breathe any more because of so many of them.

But who put us in this messy situation?

Who ever bothered to say as much as "Hey folks, keep your willies in your pants and don't use them that much, unless you want us all to go to hell and go there soon.|"   ??

No. They never said that.  Because to them it is the never ending expansion and "growth" that matters.   They were all dumb as bricks or pretended to be for short term gain within their career spans.

So there will be no solution.  We are left to slowly bake or drown in the floods or die of starvation, or maybe in the next world war caused by climate change, greed of pure stupidity.

[Yzermandius19]

7 minutes ago, cougar said:

Don't know what proposal Eyeball is making, but this is what the situation looks like:

We need to limit carbon emissions which means we must start producing less of everything and consuming less of everything

- those plastic bags we don't need any more =  tens of thousands of employees making them being out of work

- those recreational vehicles we make, we don't need = tens of thousands of jobless employees

- those trees we cut that we do not have to cut, to save our asses = hundreds of thousands of forestry workers, equipment manufacturers, transportation agencies and government departments shedding redundant employees

- those mines we do not need any more  = hundreds of thousands of jobless

- those pipelines we do not need any more = hundreds of thousands of jobless

.........you can think of further consequences in just about every sector

What do we do with all those jobless people?????

Oh, we don't need those either because they are a burden on our environment and we can't even breathe any more because of so many of them.

But who put us in this messy situation?

Who ever bothered to say as much as "Hey folks, keep your willies in your pants and don't use them that much, unless you want us all to go to hell and go there soon.|"   ??

No. They never said that.  Because to them it is the never ending expansion and "growth" that matters.   They were all dumb as bricks or pretended to be for short term gain within their career spans.

So there will be no solution.  We are left to slowly bake or drown in the floods or die of starvation, or maybe in the next world war caused by climate change, greed of pure stupidity.

you're not pro-environment

you're just anti-human

you want to them to lose their jobs and die

meanwhile your proposals don't help the environment at all

you are a prime example of everything wrong with the environmental movement

Edited July 25, 2022 by Yzermandius19

[cougar]

6 minutes ago, Yzermandius19 said:

you're not pro-environment

you're just anti-human

you want to them to lose their jobs and die

meanwhile your proposals don't help the environment at all

you are a prime example of everything wrong with the environmental movement

I see, asking of others to be responsible with their dicks is anti-human.

Then so be it!  I am anti-human, but also discriminatory and racist!  ?

[Yzermandius19]

49 minutes ago, cougar said:

I see, asking of others to be responsible with their dicks is anti-human

motte and bailey

you're against human life and prosperity

you openly want less of both and wish to use government force to achieve both

that is the actual goal of your policies

you can try and reframe blatant evil all you want

no rational person buys your excuses

Edited July 25, 2022 by Yzermandius19

[Iceni warrior]

4 hours ago, eyeball said:

Christ on a stick...wtf turned you into such a cynical sociopath anyway?

 

 

Years spent arguing on internet forums instead of going out and getting laid.

 

[Nationalist]

5 hours ago, cougar said:

What twits?  Who is dead wrong?  The constant fires all over the world and the record breaking temperatures each and every new year are some sort of a hoax ???

Why do you even bother posting?  You may call the black white and believe it is.

The axis of the planet has changed and the planet is on a closer orbital path than normal. But in your immense sense of hubris, you figure man is warming the climate enough to cause planetary warming. 

And so you figure...with very flimsy theories...that all mankind need bow to your insanity by self imposed suffrage. 

To which I rationally respond...

You go suffer. Go out to the wilderness and pitch a tent.

See ya next spring...maybe...

Edited July 25, 2022 by Nationalist

[Michael Hardner]

1 hour ago, Nationalist said:

The axis of the planet has changed and the planet is on a closer orbital path than normal. 

Oh FFS... Nothing like an internet know-it-all writing a single sentence to dismiss years of intelligent research.

Seriously... your conspiracy thinking is arrogant and takes the discussion backwards.  

[Zeitgeist]

If current and past human activity is causing climate change on a scale that will actually lead to human extinction (unverifiable) AND we can prevent this through changing our behaviour (unverifiable) AND changing our behaviour doesn’t cause much human suffering (unverifiable), then of course we should change our behaviour.

We don’t know how much human behaviour is impacting climate change or if increasing global temperature is an inevitable part of our cyclical interglacial trajectory.  We may be accelerating change, but it’s unclear how much or whether taking human impacts out of the equation would have a substantial impact.

If we run with the assumption that human impacts are making the difference between a change in climate that will destroy humanity and one that will not, it is unclear whether anything that we do to reduce the human impacts will alter our present course.  The CO2 in the atmosphere that’s impacting our current climate change is already in the pipeline.  Unless we plant millions of trees and paint civilization white overnight, and/or find some new way to suck up all the CO2, our trajectory is set even if all greenhouse gas emissions ended immediately.

I believe that the most we can realistically do and should do is change how we build and power our society.  It’s mostly about regulations, building codes, and investing in green energy sources that can actually power our industry, heat our homes, and keep the lights on. There are cost effective simple changes that make a big difference, such as switching to LED’s.

However, if taking on this decades and probably centuries-long fight against human made climate change is going to curtail human freedom, lower living standards, and/or make the poor and middle class poorer, I’m not on board with that.  We simply don’t know enough about our human impacts on climate change and how much we can reduce them to justify totalitarian reductions of human freedoms and lowering living standards, especially when we know that the fastest path to reducing family size is education and economic opportunity.

Natural expected demographic population drops and reasonable pushes for technological development will likely do just as much or more to reduce human made climate change.  Healthy competition in a free market will drive technological development with reasonable policy pushes.

Free markets, human rights, economic opportunity, and moderate policy changes, NOT top down totalitarian mandates and restrictions.  

Edited July 25, 2022 by Zeitgeist

[Michael Hardner]

3 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

 

Free markets, human rights, economic opportunity, and moderate policy changes, NOT top down totalitarian mandates and restrictions.  

I agree with a lot of your post but... we have seen that temperatures are rising more slowly thanks to CO2 growth than the worst predictions from 30 years ago.

Also, saying 'no top down ' mandates isn't realistic.  Governments exist for a reason, and most people want something done.

[Nationalist]

22 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

Oh FFS... Nothing like an internet know-it-all writing a single sentence to dismiss years of intelligent research.

Seriously... your conspiracy thinking is arrogant and takes the discussion backwards.  

Fuck your discussion Mike.

You tweenkie-ass zombies would trash the entire world economy on wildly flimsy theories.

Find a REAL source of energy that satisfies all our needs and is "green"...and we'll talk.

Until then...take your flimsy theories and go peddle them at Gore's home...where the carbon footie-print of 1 family is 20 times that of the average family.

You been had.

[Zeitgeist]

26 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

I agree with a lot of your post but... we have seen that temperatures are rising more slowly thanks to CO2 growth than the worst predictions from 30 years ago.

Also, saying 'no top down ' mandates isn't realistic.  Governments exist for a reason, and most people want something done.

Your first paragraph illustrates the crisis fear panic that we must avoid because it’s often overblown and leads to bad policies.

On your second paragraph I won’t compromise one iota. No government should violate constitutional rights or reduce living standards and opportunities for any reason. I did not support government mandates and restrictions during Covid and I won’t support them for any future perceived “crisis”. I do not like green eggs and ham; I do not like them in a can. No leader should ever be able to strip us of constitutional rights.  Keep the totalitarians out of office.  Keep the unelected global utopian ideologues away from our democracy.  

Edited July 25, 2022 by Zeitgeist

[Army Guy]

22 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

I agree with a lot of your post but... we have seen that temperatures are rising more slowly thanks to CO2 growth than the worst predictions from 30 years ago.

Also, saying 'no top down ' mandates isn't realistic.  Governments exist for a reason, and most people want something done.

Most people want a lot of things, I want to be a billionaire, and own the next playboy mansion, but I'm too damn lazy to do the work. But if putting a tax on fossil fuels and then giving it all back at the end of the year is the people's idea of doing something, anything, well it is not much of a crisis or emergency, is it?  

[Michael Hardner]

28 minutes ago, Nationalist said:

1. Fuck your discussion Mike.

2. wildly flimsy theories.

 

1. ??? And yet here you are... The heart wants what it wants Nat 

2. Like... the earth is warming due to a changing axis and everybody missed that...

 

 

 

[Nationalist]

9 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

1. ??? And yet here you are... The heart wants what it wants Nat 

2. Like... the earth is warming due to a changing axis and everybody missed that...

 

 

 

I live on facts Mike. I see no facts that justify this attack on ONLY western nations' economies and societies. None. Zero. Nada. How is it India and China get a pass? How is it the IMF and World Bank will refuse to fund industrialization of most African nations, if they build relatively cheap coal burning generators and provide their nations with stable power?

Like...you IGNORE the physical changes that are obvious, so you can pontificate about something that is a natural occurrence. This has happened before and it'll happen many times again. But no...your vaunted institutions...most of which have been proven liars, need be believed because...

"AHHH!!! WE ALL GONNA DIIIEEE!!!"

Fear is a poor security blankie Mikey.

Edited July 25, 2022 by Nationalist

[eyeball]

8 hours ago, Yzermandius19 said:

where is my wishful thinking?

I say your simple "solutions" aren't realistic

you think your simple solutions is like waving a magic wand

it will fix government corruption and save the environment if people just supported your stupid policy proposals

that's wishful thinking

So you figure is everything is just fine as is - there's nothing to fix so there's no need for solutions?

[eyeball]

7 hours ago, cougar said:

Don't know what proposal Eyeball is making,

Same as always, putting an end to in-camera lobbying -- opening up the chambers to the public when issues under discussion affect the public's domain.

It seems that conservatives think making governments transparent and accountability constitute authoritarianism and an attack on free speech.

Edited July 25, 2022 by eyeball

[cougar]

11 hours ago, Yzermandius19 said:

you're against human life and prosperity

you openly want less of both and wish to use government force to achieve both

 

"Prosperity" ????!!!!!  Adding another 2-3 billion human bodies, putting them in trucks or airplanes while all of us keep gasping for air, burning in the heat or drowning in floods is your interpretation of prosperity???? !!!!!

Show me how this improves MY LIFE ???   When I can tell you a million ways how it makes it worse!

[cougar]

6 hours ago, Nationalist said:

The axis of the planet has changed and the planet is on a closer orbital path than normal. But in your immense sense of hubris, you figure man is warming the climate enough to cause planetary warming. 

And so you figure...with very flimsy theories...that all mankind need bow to your insanity by self imposed suffrage. 

To which I rationally respond...

You go suffer. Go out to the wilderness and pitch a tent.

See ya next spring...maybe...

Changed???  And who exactly measured that?  Must have changed by quite a bit in the past 10 years to cause this dramatic change in our climate.  If this is the case, the Earth may have no more than 10 years left to live.

You ask ME to go suffer????  No, I will send all those rapidly multiplying rabbits with 4 kids and over to go suffer.   Not my problem they chose to breed like that.