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Conservative Leadership September 10th


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30 minutes ago, Yzermandius19 said:

In Canada people don't agree to disagree

...

On the contrary, we often do.

We live in a federal State.

Trust me, my neighbours in Montreal probably have strong objections to what people do in Alberta.

But we get along.

=====

Whether Roy or Robertson, it's about getting along.

This is partly why I object to Atwood and her badly written nonsense, attractive to the American Left.

 

Edited by August1991
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10 minutes ago, August1991 said:

On the contrary, we often do.

We live in a federal State.

Trust me, my neighbours in Montreal probably have strong objections to what people do in Alberta.

yeah and a lot of people in Quebec call people in Alberta bigots for disagreeing with them

and seek to enforce laws Alberta hates on Alberta

and vice versa

that's not getting along

that dynamic causes more discord

than there would be if they weren't in the same country

trying to jam their clearly conflicting interests down each other's throats

Edited by Yzermandius19
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15 minutes ago, August1991 said:

As the English say, "Good fences make good neighbours."

===

IMHO, this is the basis of our civilised Canadian society. (And fortunately, our southern neighbour is decent too.)

yeah and Canada has shitty fences

America has much better fences

but the Democrats keep trying to tear them down

Edited by Yzermandius19
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3 minutes ago, Yzermandius19 said:

....

America has much better fences

....

Are you sure?

In Canada, we cannot deduct provincial/municipal taxes from our income to decide federal taxes.

In the US, they can. This is SALT (State and Local Taxes).

IOW, when a State imposes a tax, the taxpayer can declare this and reduce the federal tax paid.

Trump tried to abolish this tax system and make it like the Canadian system - each level collects its own tax. 

 

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12 minutes ago, August1991 said:

Are you sure?

In Canada, we cannot deduct provincial/municipal taxes from our income to decide federal taxes.

In the US, they can. This is SALT (State and Local Taxes).

IOW, when a State imposes a tax, the taxpayer can declare this and reduce the federal tax paid.

Trump tried to abolish this tax system and make it like the Canadian system - each level collects its own tax. 

people who live in high tax states shouldn't have to pay less federal taxes

the state should lower their unnecessarily high state taxes

the SALT deduction results in voters being fine with the state having high taxes since they pay the same regardless

it results in more irresponsible state governments by incentivizing bad behavior

and the lower states don't get to benefit as much from having lower taxes because their citizens have to pay more in federal taxes than other states

Trump scrapped that for good reason and Biden brought it back to help out high tax blue states at the expense of low tax red states

the SALT deduction is tearing down the fences not building good ones

Edited by Yzermandius19
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5 minutes ago, Yzermandius19 said:

....

people who live in high tax states shouldn't have to pay less federal taxes

the state should lower their unnecessarily high state taxes

the SALT deduction results in voters being fine with the state having high taxes since they pay the same regardless

it results in more fiscally irresponsible state governments by incentivizing bad behavior

....

Precisely.

This is how it works in Canada. And this is what Trump tried to do for America.

(For any Canadian, this is a big change - GST Mulroney style - and explains in part why Trump lost in 2020.)

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8 minutes ago, August1991 said:

Precisely.

This is how it works in Canada. And this is what Trump tried to do for America.

(For any Canadian, this is a big change - GST Mulroney style - and explains in part why Trump lost in 2020.)

Trump lost because of covid

prior to covid he was going to coast to re-election

without covid there would have been no widespread mail in voting

and without those votes he would have won

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On 8/19/2022 at 4:06 PM, eyeball said:

I don't know why, it was clear enough to James Malthus well over a century ago.

Late reply, but nothing was clear.  Not only could James Malthus not calculate what you're referring to, but his economic theories were proto-industrial and have proven demonstrably false.  He grossly overestimated population growth, grossly underestimated productivity improvements and humanity's ability to adapt.  In short, Malthus' predictions were good for deer but not much else.  

 

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28 minutes ago, Moonbox said:

Late reply, but nothing was clear.  Not only could James Malthus not calculate what you're referring to, but his economic theories were proto-industrial and have proven demonstrably false.  He grossly overestimated population growth, grossly underestimated productivity improvements and humanity's ability to adapt.  In short, Malthus' predictions were good for deer but not much else. 

it's Thomas Malthus

but otherwise correct

the fake environmentalists are driven by this Malthusian doomsday impulse to this day

their viewing humans as a plague spreading too quickly

drives them to support totalitarian measures to punish them for flourishing

using the environment as a smokescreen to try and mask their malevolence

this is how they come to believe in overpopulation myths and are luddites who only see the negatives of technological innovation

and most don't even know who Thomas Malthus was while they repackage his whole way of thinking to try and sell their bullshit today

Edited by Yzermandius19
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49 minutes ago, Moonbox said:

Late reply, but nothing was clear.  Not only could James Malthus not calculate what you're referring to, but his economic theories were proto-industrial and have proven demonstrably false.  He grossly overestimated population growth, grossly underestimated productivity improvements and humanity's ability to adapt.  In short, Malthus' predictions were good for deer but not much else.  

 

All the same it was a pretty good first effort at discussing the sustainability of growth on a global scale.

There's clearly a limit.

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1 hour ago, eyeball said:

All the same it was a pretty good first effort at discussing the sustainability of growth on a global scale.

There's clearly a limit.

No, it was not a good take.  He was a misanthropic, and out-of-touch cleric who argued that poor people were like animals and that allowing them to reproduce would doom us all.  His theories weren't just categorically wrong (proven false).  They were also wrong (shameful).  The theory of lebenstraum was based on the same thinking - Hitler argued that increased farming intensity/improved management couldn't keep up with a growing population, thus Germany needed to expand eastward.  That's not to say that Malthusianism is bad theory because Hilter believed it.  It's bad for the same reason that institutional eugenics are. 

Going back to our original point, calculating environmental impact costs from an economic sense is very difficult (almost impossible).  Aside from explicit cleanup costs or things like that, you are just making wild guesses and basing your numbers on a lot of nebulous assumptions.

Sustainable growth is vital for the health of the planet, but the numbers behind it are not always clear.  I don't say that as a climate change denier or anything like that, but there are a lot of alarmists who lead us into bad/wasteful decisions because of questionable theory/math/economics (see Dalton McGuinty's Green Energy Plan).   

 

Edited by Moonbox
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10 hours ago, Moonbox said:

Sustainable growth is vital for the health of the planet, but the numbers behind it are not always clear.  I don't say that as a climate change denier or anything like that, but there are a lot of alarmists who lead us into bad/wasteful decisions because of questionable theory/math/economics (see Dalton McGuinty's Green Energy Plan).

Following the Cornucopians is probably a lot more fun alright.

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On 8/26/2022 at 6:01 AM, Yzermandius19 said:

Trump lost because of covid

prior to covid he was going to coast to re-election

without covid there would have been no widespread mail in voting

and without those votes he would have won

Trump's change to SALT - changing the tax system - was a factor.

Mulroney lost because of the GST.

====

Here's a challenge to a sitting politician:

Impose a consumption tax - and then get re-elected.

(They all have big egos. Whata challenge.... )

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1 hour ago, August1991 said:

Trump's change to SALT - changing the tax system - was a factor.

not really

it only really cost him in deep blue states he wasn't going to win anyway

I wouldn't even have SALT in the top 20 things that hurt him the most in 2020

also Mulroney never lost

Kim Campbell did

the whole Trump-Mulroney comparison is just way off base

Edited by Yzermandius19
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On 8/26/2022 at 6:01 AM, Yzermandius19 said:

Trump lost because of covid

prior to covid he was going to coast to re-election

without covid there would have been no widespread mail in voting

and without those votes he would have won

Without covid it would not have been so blindingly obvious to almost everyone how little interest Trump had in the health and welfare of Americans.

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On 8/26/2022 at 4:50 AM, Yzermandius19 said:

yeah and a lot of people in Quebec call people in Alberta bigots for disagreeing with them

and seek to enforce laws Alberta hates on Alberta

and vice versa

that's not getting along

that dynamic causes more discord

than there would be if they weren't in the same country

trying to jam their clearly conflicting interests down each other's throats

Quebec does whatever it wants and expects the rest of the country to eat shit.  Well now there’s a new separatist shit disturber in town, and it may mean less transfer payments to Quebec.  ?

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6 hours ago, I am Groot said:

Without covid it would not have been so blindingly obvious to almost everyone how little interest Trump had in the health and welfare of Americans.

fake news

without covid there would have been no universal mail in ballots

covid wouldn't have been such a big issue 

and the people wouldn't have idiotically blamed Trump for the pandemic just because it happened while he was POTUS

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3 hours ago, Yzermandius19 said:

fake news

without covid there would have been no universal mail in ballots

covid wouldn't have been such a big issue 

and the people wouldn't have idiotically blamed Trump for the pandemic just because it happened while he was POTUS

He wasn't blamed for causing the pandemic just making it a lot worse than it needed to be.

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7 hours ago, eyeball said:

He wasn't blamed for causing the pandemic just making it a lot worse than it needed to be.

he was blamed for both when neither are true

Trump barely lost even under the best possible circumstances for Democrats

without the stars lining up just so, they can't even make it close

Edited by Yzermandius19
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5 hours ago, Yzermandius19 said:

he was blamed for both when neither are true

There's little doubt COVID was worse than it needed to be under Trump, this was true just about anywhere that assertively right wing attitudes were predominant.

Of course it could be argued conservative politicians were simply following the orders of their constituents but I think that dynamic works the other way and conservative constituents are more prone to following their leaders wishes.

Yes yes I know, projection is a helluva drug ?

Edited by eyeball
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12 minutes ago, eyeball said:

There's little doubt COVID was worse than it needed to be under Trump, this was true just about anywhere that assertively right wing attitudes were predominant.

Of course it could be argued conservative politicians were simply following the orders of their constituents but I think that dynamic works the other way and conservative constituents are more prone to following their leaders wishes.

Yes yes I know, projection is a helluva drug ?

Florida had the best overall approach, keeping the economy open, providing vaccines and anti-virals, and maintaining individual rights.

 I just hope Canadians understand how much their liberties continue to be violated with programs like ArriveCAN, which as Lewis points out, are the result of Canada signing onto a WEF digital travel ID program.  Canada may no longer be a sovereign country because of Trudeau’s undermining of rights and freedoms.  In advance of your retort, Eyeball, let’s be clear that I consider government sycophants like you partly to blame.

 

Edited by Zeitgeist
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10 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

In advance of your retort, Eyeball, let’s be clear that I consider government sycophants like you partly to blame.

And yet you're the one who would protect the privilege of politicians to be feted in secret behind closed doors by lobbyists from the same Big Pharmas, Media, Tech yadda yadda yadda that you're so paranoid is behind your enslavement.

This is what makes you a loon. You know full well governments and lobbyists would recoil in horror from my ideas on forcing transparency and accountability but I'm the sycophant. Lol!

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