Conservative Leadership September 10th

[Michael Hardner]

"this lady on the internet said stuff"

[August1991]

The federal Conservative method involves second choices: preference votes. Votes are weighted by riding.

IMHO, according to this federal Conservative method, it is a choice between Charest and Poilievre. Only these two have a chance to win.

====

I reckon that if Charest wins, the Conservative Party (and Canada) will dissolve. Too many people will say, enough is enough. 

If Poilevre wins, the Conservatives will never form a federal government.

 

 

[Zeitgeist]

4 hours ago, August1991 said:

The federal Conservative method involves second choices: preference votes. Votes are weighted by riding.

IMHO, according to this federal Conservative method, it is a choice between Charest and Poilievre. Only these two have a chance to win.

====

I reckon that if Charest wins, the Conservative Party (and Canada) will dissolve. Too many people will say, enough is enough. 

If Poilevre wins, the Conservatives will never form a federal government.

 

 

The world Charest is addressing doesn’t exist anymore.  Freedom is in peril, but many elderly think it’s just the government keeping them safe.  There’s a much bigger agenda being pushed.  Trudeau thought he could push it through and look smart on the world stage.  Instead, he looks like a privileged tyrant who doesn’t respect the real concerns and rights of all Canadians.  The excuses for oppression should be clear by now: public health and safety, climate change.  Unfortunately many Canadians are still under a spell of fear sold by government, state-funded media, and international bodies.

Poilievre is tuned into what’s at stake and has the intelligence, strength, and experience to mitigate these threats to the liberal-democratic nation state of Canada. However, I say mitigate because those threats will persist. If Poilievre or someone like him doesn’t win soon, I’m not hopeful for freedom in Canada.  

Edited June 9, 2022 by Zeitgeist

[Michael Hardner]

2 hours ago, Zeitgeist said:

1.  There’s a much bigger agenda being pushed.  Trudeau thought he could push it through and look smart on the world stage.  ... The excuses for oppression should be clear by now: public health and safety, climate change.  

2. Poilievre is tuned into what’s at stake and has the intelligence, strength, and experience to mitigate these threats to the liberal-democratic nation state of Canada. However, I say mitigate because those threats will persist. If Poilievre or someone like him doesn’t win soon, I’m not hopeful for freedom in Canada.  

1.  The majority of Canadians believes Climate Change is happening and even a majority of Albertans support climate action.  This noise about "global agendas" is anti-democratic bullshit and it will kill the Conservative Party as Auguste points out.

2. He's a young know-nothing who has never had a job outside government and has convinced the cult that he will promote their concerns.  In reality, he would throw you under the bus and in fact would have to in order to win.  Plus he buys Bitcoin and therefore promotes it to Canadians.

If you drop out of the political process that would be fine, but I would much rather you accept the views of Canadians who have an equal say in this.

[Zeitgeist]

17 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

1.  The majority of Canadians believes Climate Change is happening and even a majority of Albertans support climate action.  This noise about "global agendas" is anti-democratic bullshit and it will kill the Conservative Party as Auguste points out.

2. He's a young know-nothing who has never had a job outside government and has convinced the cult that he will promote their concerns.  In reality, he would throw you under the bus and in fact would have to in order to win.  Plus he buys Bitcoin and therefore promotes it to Canadians.

If you drop out of the political process that would be fine, but I would much rather you accept the views of Canadians who have an equal say in this.

Charest will spin his wheels tinkering at the edges.  Trudeau has created structural deficits and installed activist Bank of Canada and other technocrats.  Oil regulation, overspending, and restrictions are choking creativity and causing inflation to skyrocket.  Carbon taxes add insult to injury.  Identity politics are another shitshow.  Charest wouldn’t challenge much of this.   Canadians are losing living standards and freedom because of a puritanical interventionist fight against unquantifiable human-caused climate change and a public health crusade that is now overblown and heavily politicized. 

[Michael Hardner]

13 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

1. Charest will spin his wheels tinkering at the edges.  Trudeau has created structural deficits and installed activist Bank of Canada and other technocrats.  

2. Oil regulation, overspending, and restrictions are choking creativity and causing inflation to skyrocket.  Carbon taxes add insult to injury.  Identity politics are another shitshow.  Charest wouldn’t challenge much of this.  

3. Canadians are losing living standards and freedom because of a puritanical interventionist fight against unquantifiable human-caused climate change and a public health crusade that is now overblown and heavily politicized. 

1.  Some of this is true but much is reversible.  
2. There are things that could be changed and other changes implemented to mitigate.
3  Blaming Climate Change for our situation is misguided at best and disinfo at worst.  It's basic facts that tell us that the Carbon Tax is not causing inflation and yet people repeat this again and again ?  If we can't have quality dialogue then we will be fixing the wrong things over and over.

Yes, we could pause the Carbon Tax to help.  Yes, our Energy industry is at risk but let's talk real.

[Zeitgeist]

2 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

1.  Some of this is true but much is reversible.  
2. There are things that could be changed and other changes implemented to mitigate.
3  Blaming Climate Change for our situation is misguided at best and disinfo at worst.  It's basic facts that tell us that the Carbon Tax is not causing inflation and yet people repeat this again and again ?  If we can't have quality dialogue then we will be fixing the wrong things over and over.

Yes, we could pause the Carbon Tax to help.  Yes, our Energy industry is at risk but let's talk real.

Crippling fuel costs, debt levels, and mandates are real.   We’ll never know to what extent humans are impacting climate change and whether the threats posed to humanity by it are grave.  The threats of natural disasters have always existed.  Humans have become better at adapting.  We have to live with Covid as we do colds and flu’s.  Protections are widely available to those who want them.  We have to stop destroying our economy, mental health, and freedoms for causes without serious immediate impact.  

[Michael Hardner]

36 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

1.  We’ll never know to what extent humans are impacting climate change...
 2.  We have to stop destroying our economy, mental health, and freedoms for causes without serious immediate impact.  

1. Well it's significant... to say we don't know the exact extent is not pertinent really.  
2. Well Covid and Climate Change have petty immediate consequences by any measure.

[Zeitgeist]

19 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

1. Well it's significant... to say we don't know the exact extent is not pertinent really.  
2. Well Covid and Climate Change have petty immediate consequences by any measure.

Not as much as an extremely high cost of living and the toll on finances and mental health, costs we’ll pay for decades to come.  

[ironstone]

According to Candace Malcolm the Conservative leadership race has brought in over 600,000 new members that will vote in the fall. For the sake of comparison there were 174,000 in the Conservative 2020 leadership race and 104,000 for the Liberals when Trudeau won.

Trudeau and Singh should be shaking in their boots over Conservative membership numbers | True North (tnc.news)

Now this is of course no guarantee that the Conservatives will form the next government  or even that Trudeau won't get at least another minority thanks to the very favourable concentration of votes and seats for Trudeau. But at the very least it should get his attention and his supporters in the MSM will be stepping up the level of attacks against the Conservative party.

Given that Trudeau and Singh are now partners three years will seem like an eternity.

[Michael Hardner]

4 hours ago, Zeitgeist said:

Not as much as an extremely high cost of living and the toll on finances and mental health, costs we’ll pay for decades to come.  

Well, yes of course it's less. That's why people are willing to spend money on it.

[Army Guy]

10 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

1.  The majority of Canadians believes Climate Change is happening and even a majority of Albertans support climate action.  This noise about "global agendas" is anti-democratic bullshit and it will kill the Conservative Party as Auguste points out.

2. He's a young know-nothing who has never had a job outside government and has convinced the cult that he will promote their concerns.  In reality, he would throw you under the bus and in fact would have to in order to win.  Plus he buys Bitcoin and therefore promotes it to Canadians.

If you drop out of the political process that would be fine, but I would much rather you accept the views of Canadians who have an equal say in this.

1. That's bullshit mike, sure Canadians believe in climate change is real, but not enough to invest anything of value into it. that is not the definition of support...if they supported climate change Emergency liberals would have been gone long ago, and the greens would be in...

2. Your right PP should not be able to win, and yet Justin who has performed much worse in every case and has managed to pull off 3 victories, all the while bullshitting even the best. How do we explain those facts?

He may not be every conservative first choice, but you don't need a crystal ball or magic to know he is going to be the main man come the fall. I can tell you this he can not manage to screw things up any worse than the liberals have. You can protest vote if you like that is your right, and choice, but thinking that Justin is going to do better, is wishful thinking because protest voting is always the smart and mature thing to do. Most call it pouting.  

[Michael Hardner]

1 hour ago, Army Guy said:

1.  if they supported climate change Emergency liberals would have been gone long ago, and the greens would be in...

2. Your right PP should not be able to win, and yet Justin who has performed much worse in every case and has managed to pull off 3 victories, all the while bullshitting even the best. How do we explain those facts?

3. He may not be every conservative first choice, but you don't need a crystal ball or magic to know he is going to be the main man come the fall.

4. I can tell you this he can not manage to screw things up any worse than the liberals have.

5. You can protest vote if you like that is your right, and choice, but thinking that Justin is going to do better, is wishful thinking because protest voting is always the smart and mature thing to do. Most call it pouting.  

1. If they were against it then the Conservatives would have majority after majority right ?
2. Gee I don't know
3. What happens this fall ?  Do you mean Hallowe'en costumes ?
4. There are plenty of countries worse off than us.  Do you think Canadian $ bitcoin is a safe bet ?
5.  I'm not a Liberal but how is voting for a sitting government a 'protest vote' ?

[Army Guy]

17 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

1. If they were against it then the Conservatives would have majority after majority right ?
2. Gee I don't know
3. What happens this fall ?  Do you mean Hallowe'en costumes ?
4. There are plenty of countries worse off than us.  Do you think Canadian $ bitcoin is a safe bet ?
5.  I'm not a Liberal but how is voting for a sitting government a 'protest vote' ?

1... I did not say they are against it, the majority are all for climate change as long as it does not cost anything...What the liberals have is a plan that barely meets the requirements, my point was if Canadians were serious about climate change emergencies they would have demanded much more be done. 

4... that's the standard now, at least we are not in last place those are some very high standards mike. No, i don't think bit coin is a safe bet, PP is not my first choice, but it seems that is pretty much already decided by now

5. I know you a conservative mike or so you keep saying,  but like some conservatives on here they hate PP, (perhaps hate is too much) "really dislike", and are not voting Conservative, which pretty much is a protest vote. 

 

[Michael Hardner]

19 minutes ago, Army Guy said:

1... I did not say they are against it, the majority are all for climate change as long as it does not cost anything...What the liberals have is a plan that barely meets the requirements, my point was if Canadians were serious about climate change emergencies they would have demanded much more be done. 

2... PP is not my first choice 

3. I know you a conservative mike 

 

1. Again - why didn't Scheer, Harper win majorities time after time ?  You are still saying nobody wants to pay for Climate Change even pennies per litre...
2. Ok
3. Thanks

[Army Guy]

11 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

1. Again - why didn't Scheer, Harper win majorities time after time ?  You are still saying nobody wants to pay for Climate Change even pennies per litre...
2. Ok
3. Thanks

It was time for a change, it is how politics works, just like it is Justin's time to go because the people conservatives and liberals want change. 

First off it is not pennies per liter when you take into account all the other federal taxes on fuel. The main objective here was to make fossil fuel expensive to make us think twice about using it, and then return all those extra pennies back to users at tax time...in comes the war on Ukraine and we are seeing fossil fuel prices never seen before, prices that carbon taxes would not see for another decade, do you think we are driving any less...I mean I was paying 2.65 for diesel still needed to get to work and back, that's close to 300.00 to fill my tank every 2 weeks. 

My point is the whole premise of the liberal's carbon tax was to get us to drive and use less fossil fuels, that portion is a failure, next to the idea of taxing someone and then returning that money at the end of the year, well is another failure...That taxes could have been used to invest into clean energy sources, and green tech like better car batteries, i could list a million things, nope giving it back to the user was the best they could come up with... my grandson and his kindergarten class could come up with a better plan. And that was the plan Canadians sank their teeth into...Conservatives could have done better and failed. 

[Michael Hardner]

23 minutes ago, Army Guy said:

1. it is Justin's time to go because the people conservatives and liberals want change. 

2. First off it is not pennies per liter when you take into account all the other federal taxes on fuel.

3. The main objective here was to make fossil fuel expensive to make us think twice about using it, and then return all those extra pennies back to users at tax time...
 

1. People were thankful that Harper served during a major economic problem but they never loved him, which is similar to Trudeau.
2. That's not a Carbon Tax issue then.
3. To spend the money planting trees etc. I thought.  No ?

[August1991]

On 6/9/2022 at 2:57 PM, ironstone said:

According to Candace Malcolm the Conservative leadership race has brought in over 600,000 new members that will vote in the fall. For the sake of comparison there were 174,000 in the Conservative 2020 leadership race and 104,000 for the Liberals when Trudeau won....

Good point. I noted this too.

[Army Guy]

On 6/10/2022 at 5:38 PM, Michael Hardner said:

1. People were thankful that Harper served during a major economic problem but they never loved him, which is similar to Trudeau.
2. That's not a Carbon Tax issue then.
3. To spend the money planting trees etc. I thought.  No ?

1... Well, mike you are one of the few that are thankful for Justin...what should we be thankful for exactly...

2... Well if we are being honest, then it is not a few pennies a liter just for carbo taxes. and it is going to continue to grow, until the fuel is where we see it priced now, according to the experts. a tad more than a few pennies...

3.... now that is some low-hanging fruit mike... I feel we are about to turn the corner on this climate change thing. And i originally thought it was a good project, I mean it could have been worse right. But the photo op is over, and i think it is safe to say, the goal is out of reach right now. 

Was this project even being funded by carbon taxes or just regular government funding which looked good? i don't suppose you have any more projects that we can attribute to carbon taxes.

Look I am a conservative, but would love to see our country do something about OUR emissions with projects that are not lipstick on a pig, but meaningful and address these calls of emergency climate crises, right now it looks no body cares we go through the motions, and then do nothing or as little as we can get away with... let's not cry the sky is falling and then sit around watching it fall.  

2 years after Trudeau pledged to plant 2 billion trees, only 8.5 million have been planted | CBC News

[eyeball]

2 hours ago, Army Guy said:

1... Well, mike you are one of the few that are thankful for Justin...what should we be thankful for exactly...

Speaking for myself I've come to be grateful that he's not Trump.  I never voted for him in the past and that gratitude is certainly not enough to make me vote for him in the future but it's something, especially when hard-boiled ingrates are trying to convince me he's actually Hitler.  I mean if I was asked the same question about Trump I'd be grateful that he wasn't Hitler.

Does that make sense?

[Zeitgeist]

1 hour ago, eyeball said:

Speaking for myself I've come to be grateful that he's not Trump.  I never voted for him in the past and that gratitude is certainly not enough to make me vote for him in the future but it's something, especially when hard-boiled ingrates are trying to convince me he's actually Hitler.  I mean if I was asked the same question about Trump I'd be grateful that he wasn't Hitler.

Does that make sense?

Trump was far better for America than Trudeau is for Canada.  I didn’t like Trump as a person and I didn’t like some of his policies, but he kept Russia onside, fuel and the cost of living low, and defended the idea of America.  Trudeau seems to hate Canada because he’s constantly apologizing for it.  There’s no end to his inflationary debt spending on government programs that stifle freedom.  

[Queenmandy85]

I'm not sure what the issue is with the carbon tax. The purpose is to get people to lower emissions. It is like the GST. It is a voluntary tax. You reduce your tax burden by consuming less. The alternative is rationing. As we saw in the Second World War, rationing works, but it is expensive and draconian. That is where we are headed though.

The other alternative is to throw your decendents into the oven and put it on broil. Actually, they will die of thirst before that.

[Zeitgeist]

52 minutes ago, Queenmandy85 said:

I'm not sure what the issue is with the carbon tax. The purpose is to get people to lower emissions. It is like the GST. It is a voluntary tax. You reduce your tax burden by consuming less. The alternative is rationing. As we saw in the Second World War, rationing works, but it is expensive and draconian. That is where we are headed though.

The other alternative is to throw your decendents into the oven and put it on broil. Actually, they will die of thirst before that.

If climate change is a real threat, it’s mostly out of our hands.  Carbon taxes do nothing but add to the cost of living.  We have no choice but to use energy to exist.  Carbon taxes are existence taxes.  You can’t prove the extent of human made climate change and the amount of greenhouse gases already in the atmosphere have charted our course for the next century.  Painting everything white reflects more heat back into space.  Forests absorb CO2, so intensive tree-planting helps.  Green tech simply cannot supply our energy needs.  Nuclear can help.  Carbon taxes are stupid.  

[Queenmandy85]

1 hour ago, Zeitgeist said:

If climate change is a real threat, it’s mostly out of our hands.  Carbon taxes do nothing but add to the cost of living.  We have no choice but to use energy to exist.  Carbon taxes are existence taxes.  You can’t prove the extent of human made climate change and the amount of greenhouse gases already in the atmosphere have charted our course for the next century.  Painting everything white reflects more heat back into space.  Forests absorb CO2, so intensive tree-planting helps.  Green tech simply cannot supply our energy needs.  Nuclear can help.  Carbon taxes are stupid.  

Is this what you learned in your physics classes?

[Michael Hardner]

21 minutes ago, Queenmandy85 said:

Is this what you learned in your physics classes?

I can't get past the contradictionns in the post.

We can't do anything, taxes are stupid and here are some things that help...