Time to Declare Endemic

[Aristides]

18 minutes ago, Goddess said:

Yes, we all know that.

Why are more and more vaccinated people needing covid hospital care?

They are vaccinated, yes?

Even calculating in the supposed 91-96% efficacy of the vaccines, that would mean that there should only be about 8% at the most.

We  know Omricon has changed that, just like it has changed the effectiveness of monoclonal antibody treatments. Efficacy is still high with boosters, particularly a Moderna booster for Pfizer. 

My daughter just got her booster. She has now had AZ, Pfizer and Moderna. She probably has the best protection from serious disease of all.

Edited January 27, 2022 by Aristides

[myata]

1 hour ago, Aristides said:

The percentage is climbing but they also represent over 80% of the population.

You keep repeating stubbornly an argument that does not exist. A somewhat higher or lower risk of a condition is not acceptable or sufficient grounds for infringements of individual rights. The standard is much higher. If we applied the same arguments in the past we would be living in a health authoritarian condition for decades already with a slew of mandated behaviors and policies, adding new ones regularly.

[Goddess]

1 hour ago, Aristides said:

We  know Omricon has changed that

Yes, the vaccinations are apparently not useful against Omicron. 

Which makes me wonder about this:

1 hour ago, Aristides said:

My daughter just got her booster. She has now had AZ, Pfizer and Moderna. She probably has the best protection from serious disease of all.

And increasing numbers of vaccinated are ending up in hospital - up to 80% in highly vaxxed areas.

This is the circular (il)logic that makes no sense.

Edited January 27, 2022 by Goddess

[dialamah]

9 minutes ago, Goddess said:

And increasing numbers of vaccinated are ending up in hospital - up to 80% in highly vaxxed areas.

That would be your clue.

[Aristides]

1 minute ago, Goddess said:

Yes, the vaccinations are apparently not useful against Omicron. 

Which makes me wonder about this:

This is the circular (il)logic that makes no sense.

The number show they are keeping people out of hospitals to a large degree.  The BCCDC chart I linked showed 40.2 per 100K unvaxxed in hospital vs 10 for vaxxed. Even bigger difference in ICU. A majority of vaccinated adults still haven't had a booster.

[Goddess]

Just now, dialamah said:

That would be your clue.

Yup. Definitely a clue.

[myata]

We're now officially at the level of "boosted". Yep, just read this is what it's called, at 40.something %.

Has anyone wondered where it's going, from here? Are we heading to double-triple "boosted"? Quad-boosted still OK but then we'll need to switch to numericals, like 23-boosted. Other ideas? Did someone say, exit plan? How to coexist with Covid and not turn into a health-authoritarian state run by hands by a caste of self-appointed "experts" paying to themselves for repeatedly beating their own records in cases and you name it? We are heading into year 3 of the pandemic. Sure it's still too early to ask these questions?

[Aristides]

14 minutes ago, myata said:

We're now officially at the level of "boosted". Yep, just read this is what it's called, at 40.something %.

Has anyone wondered where it's going, from here? Are we heading to double-triple "boosted"? Quad-boosted still OK but then we'll need to switch to numericals, like 23-boosted. Other ideas? Did someone say, exit plan? How to coexist with Covid and not turn into a health-authoritarian state run by hands by a caste of self-appointed "experts" paying to themselves for repeatedly beating their own records in cases and you name it? We are heading into year 3 of the pandemic. Sure it's still too early to ask these questions?

Might mean annual shots. They are talking about combining it with the flu shot in future. Viruses don't give the kind of guarantees you seem to want and expect. 

[-TSS-]

How do you get people to accept a jab once a year? By saying first that they must have one every three months but then saying perhaps once a year would be enough. 

[myata]

3 hours ago, Aristides said:

Viruses don't give the kind of guarantees you seem to want and expect. 

I'm not asking anything of viruses they aren't even intelligent unlike some of us. But by all means, please feel free to inject whatever you like however often you like into yourself and then please very kindly, keep it to yourself can you? We can live in harmony that way, you know?

[eyeball]

11 minutes ago, myata said:

I'm not asking anything of viruses they aren't even intelligent unlike some of us. But by all means, please feel free to inject whatever you like however often you like into yourself and then please very kindly, keep it to yourself can you? We can live in harmony that way, you know?

No unfortunately we can't.  I think the unvaccinated, notwithstanding the miniscule number of people with legitimate medical reasons for being exempt, should stay in their basements - it's their turn.  I have no issues with the government providing them with benefits to support their decision - I think doing that would be the least expensive way to protect society.  

[Zeitgeist]

47 minutes ago, eyeball said:

No unfortunately we can't.  I think the unvaccinated, notwithstanding the miniscule number of people with legitimate medical reasons for being exempt, should stay in their basements - it's their turn.  I have no issues with the government providing them with benefits to support their decision - I think doing that would be the least expensive way to protect society.  

Draconian and unnecessary to protect the vulnerable and our healthcare system.  The vulnerable have ample protections at their disposal.  Our ICU’s are not overwhelmed.  Take your despotic measures and apply them to yourself, Master.  

[eyeball]

2 hours ago, Zeitgeist said:

Draconian and unnecessary to protect the vulnerable and our healthcare system.  The vulnerable have ample protections at their disposal.  Our ICU’s are not overwhelmed.

That's an opinion that doesn't mesh with what health authorities are reporting or with what experts are advising them.

Quote

Take your despotic measures and apply them to yourself, Master.

Hey give me break, the title simply comes with the job and in actual fact my underlings like to use it in a mocking tone and genuflect in an often exaggerated scornful manner, it's really not all it's cracked up to be.  I'm actually surprised the term hasn't been stricken from its official and industrial use given the day and age we're in. Maybe I could make it a human rights case based on the way it's used to humiliate ME.

Imagine that a despot advocating for his own dethronement.  They just don't make us lefties the way they used to.

Edited January 28, 2022 by eyeball

[myata]

9 hours ago, eyeball said:

No unfortunately we can't. 

That makes the owner of this statement a b-word and, if any coercion is involved, e-word. Done, stamp. No , there's no way around it because that's what bigots and extremists of all kinds and shades say, and do. And they always have a strong solid justification. As long as it cannot be questioned and no explanation needs to be given.

[myata]

16 hours ago, Aristides said:

The percentage is climbing but they also represent over 80% of the population.

70% in hospital with 80% in the society doesn't look like a strong protection. And this is an objective reality. Now you can take 5 anecdotal stories from the 70% group, or from the 30% one and "prove" or illustrate, on the corresponding level of objectivity, two mutually contradictory points. It's been a while since our media has figured out this innocent trick.

Also for most of the age groups it has barely been, or hasn't even been six months after full vaccination. Also an objective fact.

[Goddess]

Trudeau says it's 90% vaxxed.  These ones vaccinated are making up 80% of hospitalizations.

In what world is this a good thing?

In what world does this say the vaccines are working?

How did we allow them to demonize coughs and sniffles, but normalize heart attacks, myocarditis and heart inflammation?

[Goddess]

Here is another whistleblower testifying before the Senate

(9) Facebook

[myata]

European leaders are considering endemic end of the pandemic. The inevitable point is, we just have to learn to coexist with Covid as with flu, common cold and other common infections. Focus on treatment and management of the disease, not the people.

Let me venture a scenario. When most of the peer countries if not almost everyone on the globe have returned to and lived normal, post-pandemic lives for months if not years; and it's no longer possible to deny in broad daylight, it will be discovered by our enlightened bureaucracy, talked about by the talking heads as an interesting idea, and with time and much "out of abundance of caution" the restrictions and mandates would begin going.

Of course, those countries that are doing it now, not to mention, from the early day but that time would way ahead maybe lightyears in the effectiveness of treatments and management. But that we had always so not to worry, nothing new here.

And I can't see any other realistic way out of this within reasonable time. Can you?

[blackbird]

21 hours ago, myata said:

Some interesting quotes on ending mask and passport mandates (BBC). Mandatory masks are gone including in schools, immediately.

"We must learn to live with Covid in the same way we live with flu"

Looking ahead, Mr Johnson said the government would set out its long-term strategy for living with coronavirus.

Governments have no unlimited privileges to impose restrictions on citizens whenever they like and for however long they wants. All and any restriction must be necessary, accountable and proven to be effective.

This is also an important, even critical test for reason-based democratic governance. If the cases remain under control and no disaster ensues it would be difficult to deny that restrictive policies are unnecessary; not effective and are dragged out beyond reasonable and justifiable artificially, with no oversight or accountability.

 

 

 

The UK under Boris Johnson has been an unmitigated Covid disaster with a huge loss of lives.  I wouldn't trust anything BJ says or does.  He is now under huge pressure to resign after holding parties during Covid restrictions while everyone else was locked down.  We are still in the middle of the pandemic and it still seriously harms a lot of people.  Masks, vaccination, and social distancing still make a lot of sense and will for the undetermined future.  

[myata]

5 minutes ago, blackbird said:

Masks, vaccination, and social distancing still make a lot of sense and will for the undetermined future. 

Until and unless convincing objective evidence is provided, reviewed and discussed would it be too much to ask to qualify it with a brief but informative addition: "to me"?

Edited January 28, 2022 by myata

[Aristides]

16 hours ago, -TSS- said:

How do you get people to accept a jab once a year? By saying first that they must have one every three months but then saying perhaps once a year would be enough. 

This is a brand new virus, has it never occurred to you that at this point we can be nothing but reactive? Humans are not in control.

[myata]

14 minutes ago, Aristides said:

This is a brand new virus,

It is not a "brand new" virus, four types of common cold viruses are of the same type. Human immune system is capable of defending against it in a great majority of cases. Get back to managing the disease, stop managing people - it was not in the job description.

[Aristides]

57 minutes ago, myata said:

It is not a "brand new" virus, four types of common cold viruses are of the same type. Human immune system is capable of defending against it in a great majority of cases. Get back to managing the disease, stop managing people - it was not in the job description.

It's a new one bud. A 2022 Cadillac is not the same as a 1922 Cadillac but they are both Cadillacs. 

Manage the disease, protect the vulnerable. Bullshit phrases with no substance behind them.

Edited January 28, 2022 by Aristides

[Goddess]

The inventor of the PCR test vehemently opposed his test being used the way it is right now.  He insisted it was not designed to do what the government wants it to do.

He said the reason they do not work for testing for covid is because the human body has over 380 trillion viruses in it.  Of those, about 23% of them are coronaviruses.

Which explains all the false positives.

 

[myata]

10 minutes ago, Aristides said:

Bullshit phrases with no substance behind them.

Sure you have a better solution, just chainsaw everything in sight. Someone sane could ask have you at least tried to think first but too late for that.