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Time to Declare Endemic


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5 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

It ends when the public finally, in fits of rage, pressures governments to end all restrictions.

Most of the population is still following. If people have food, shelter and entertainment, the pressures will not rise. 

I do agree that there has been a switch with millennial and gen z into questioning the measures and mandates taken. Interestingly enough the younger generation is more fed up with the regulations than the older generation. 

Those responsible do need a "they made us end the restrictions" type of deal. 

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1 minute ago, Winston said:

Let's say you are right. 

I do not see a future where the unvaccinated will be thanked or even considered, maybe in a documentary, not unlike the social dilemma. ( no offence) 

The worst case scenario for me is if the many doctors and scientists raising the alarm are correct and the vaccinated start dropping like flies a few years from now from a variety issues because their immune systems have been ruined by repeated covid vaccines and boosters.  If the vaccinated children cannot have children and are left in such unhealthy states they can barely function.

That scares me more than the camps.

I don't know why the authorities are absolutely rabidly desperate to vaccinate every single person on earth.  It's clearly not about science.  What the political end game here is....I don't know.  But I do know that none of this is in the citizen's best interest.

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8 minutes ago, Goddess said:

The worst case scenario for me is if the many doctors and scientists raising the alarm are correct and the vaccinated start dropping like flies a few years from now from a variety issues because their immune systems have been ruined by repeated covid vaccines and boosters.  If the vaccinated children cannot have children and are left in such unhealthy states they can barely function.

That scares me more than the camps.

I don't know why the authorities are absolutely rabidly desperate to vaccinate every single person on earth.  It's clearly not about science.  What the political end game here is....I don't know.  But I do know that none of this is in the citizen's best interest.

This is based on what exactly? 

The political end game is usually about power.

Most of these measures that were taken can be tailored to other "critical" issues plaguing the planet. 

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27 minutes ago, Goddess said:

The worst case scenario for me is if the many doctors and scientists raising the alarm are correct and the vaccinated start dropping like flies a few years from now from a variety issues because their immune systems have been ruined by repeated covid vaccines and boosters.  If the vaccinated children cannot have children and are left in such unhealthy states they can barely function.

That scares me more than the camps.

I don't know why the authorities are absolutely rabidly desperate to vaccinate every single person on earth.  It's clearly not about science.  What the political end game here is....I don't know.  But I do know that none of this is in the citizen's best interest.

Your hysteria goes well with your cramps.

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28 minutes ago, Winston said:

Most of the population is still following. If people have food, shelter and entertainment, the pressures will not rise. 

I do agree that there has been a switch with millennial and gen z into questioning the measures and mandates taken. Interestingly enough the younger generation is more fed up with the regulations than the older generation. 

Those responsible do need a "they made us end the restrictions" type of deal. 

"Most of the population is still following. If people have food, shelter and entertainment, the pressures will not rise."

Is that Stalin?

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26 minutes ago, H B Lowrey said:

"Most of the population is still following. If people have food, shelter and entertainment, the pressures will not rise."

Is that Stalin?

It illustrates the arrogance and cynicism of governments that impose draconian restrictions and mandates, thinking they can get away with it if people have a few staples.  Sadly, he may be right.  I question how much Canadians value freedom.  They used to. 

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7 hours ago, Zeitgeist said:

They used to. 

Now is the time to revisit many truths that we thought solid and obvious, and this is an interesting one. How can we confirm that that's what they used to value, objectively and factually? Valuing freedom means critical analysis and questioning of what's going on around; it means watching, seeing and standing up to abuses of power; it means holding authorities transparent and accountable in all matters. It means objective and critical review of our public assets and instruments, and fixing, updating and modernizing them as and whenever necessary. Is that what we used to do and be, but forgot now? Or it just never happened, a story we like to tell to ourselves for so long that began believing it, genuinely and sincerely?

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15 minutes ago, myata said:

Now is the time to revisit many truths that we thought solid and obvious, and this is an interesting one. How can we confirm that that's what they used to value, objectively and factually? Valuing freedom means critical analysis and questioning of what's going on around; it means watching, seeing and standing up to abuses of power; it means holding authorities transparent and accountable in all matters. It means objective and critical review of our public assets and instruments, and fixing, updating and modernizing them as and whenever necessary. Is that what we used to do and be, but forgot now? Or it just never happened, a story we like to tell to ourselves for so long that began believing it, genuinely and sincerely?

Well Canada used to have and arguably retains excellence in agricultural, resource development,, telecommunications, biomedical, A.I. technology, and many other fields.  Third country to first put a satellite in space, third most capable military at end of WW2, inventors of insulin, telephone, smart phone, and for a short time, the fastest aircraft.  Canada has (had?) a highly skilled and educated workforce , including the best public education system in the English speaking world.  Trailblazers in peacekeeping, yada yada.  We have legacy democratic institutions adopted from British parliamentary democracy and strengthened by representative reforms and a constitution.

However, all of that is in jeopardy now.  Our systems are highly compromised by pandemic measures.  Our freedom is seriously and perhaps irreparably damaged. 

Edited by Zeitgeist
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10 hours ago, Winston said:

I want raw data so hopefully I can come to the same conclusion, this way I know exactly why I hold a stance and can discuss using the raw data.

"so why only skepticism of official sources and not the wing nut ones others post here?" - Why bother? wing nut posts are silly and can just be ignored unless they point to official data. If you have noticed I try to only post official data. 

I would also say that official data requires a higher level of accuracy to their statement, because most people trust their conclusions and their records. If an official source fails to provide accurate statements or fails to provide correct recommendations, the public will distrust official sources. 

What raw data do you want? Raw data means it hasn't been verified. There is no way VAERS or the CDC can verify every report it gets, there are millions of them coming from sources everywhere. If I have a big problem with VAERS is that it seems to give the same weight to individual reports as it does to reports from medical professionals and hospitals. VAERS is like a weathervane that gives wind direction but not velocity. It can tell you where there might be issues but their actual numbers are not reliable because they are not vetted. The same might be said about the CDC's report on long term effects of the virus itself and that is why they don't give actual numbers. This is what they are seeing from the reports they are getting. Are you saying they are not seeing this and why do you think you are in a position or have the qualifications to know better?

What I find stunning (and somewhat hilarious) is how people will cherry pick VAERS to claim how bad vaccines are  but totally ignore the CDC when in comes to long term effects and symptoms from the virus itself, while still claiming to be objective. It's the same bloody organization.

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11 hours ago, Winston said:

This is based on what exactly? 

The political end game is usually about power.

Most of these measures that were taken can be tailored to other "critical" issues plaguing the planet. 

From the beginning of this, well respected doctors and scientists in immunology and virology were pointing to data and studies that showed the vaccines would not just be ineffective, but would actually damage people's immune systems.  At the time, I took it with a grain of salt, as other scientists were saying No, the vaccines would stop the spread and transmission of covid.  The government was telling us that vaccines would be the answer, no early treatment was being allowed.  I waited to see what would happen.

It appears that the "dissenting" scientists and virologists were correct.  The vaccines are not stopping spread or transmission.  More and more vaxxed people are in hospital and ICU, all over the world, those numbers are rising.  People are waking up and realizing that the vaxxed seem to be getting sicker and sicker.

With no mechanisms in place to tell what or if the adverse reactions and deaths are (which I find completely irresponsible and even criminal), vaccine injuries and deaths can be passed off as merely "coincidental".  Heart attacks in children now seen as normal. Insurance companies and funeral homes raising the alarm on increases in deaths under age 40 are ignored by both the public and governments.  Big Pharma, of course, doesn't care, they are immune from any responsibility.

It's your last sentence that is also concerning - where is all this headed?

Many are talking of leaving Canada or have already left, it's no longer a democracy, heading down dictatorship paths.  A family just died, frozen in the cold, trying to get out of Canada. Never in a million years did I ever think I'd see that.  We used to be the envy of the world.  

Other countries opening up, Trudeau making it clear that that is NOT going to happen any time soon here.

Edit:  When my sister had her vaccine  injury and I saw how that was mishandled and ignored, I dug deeper and found there are many more like her.  It's frightening what is happening to people and again - no mechanism to report these things.

Edited by Goddess
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12 hours ago, Winston said:

The political end game is usually about power.

In a complacent and self-absorbed society an easy exit out of an authoritarian situation may not exist. Even if formal checks and balances on the authority existed, many examples in history demonstrated that they can be compromised, some easier than others but still most over sufficient time. And in this country we have very few of those, just never thought it would be necessary. How can we expect and hope that those entrenched in their supreme and unaccountable roles to impose "a greater good", dictate and mandate to understand and accept a different reality? It wouldn't be reasonable, from that perspective, and neither productive, for the purported "good" and for private interests, status, position, compensation etc. It cannot just happen by itself. And the further and deeper it goes, the less likely it would be to return to the normal.

On every loop of the pandemic trajectory so far we've been adding new restrictions: lockdowns, masks, vaccination, mass-injecting children (cannot be called "vaccination" in professional honesty because for them the problem factually does not exist) now talking about ongoing, open end boosting. How can a caste of entitled bureaucrats with no checks or accountability, nor feedback from the society or the reality itself begin relaxing and abandoning restrictions, what would it take, or is it even possible? I don't know. But can't see a clear, logical path to how it could either.

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2 hours ago, Goddess said:

The vaccines are not stopping spread or transmission.  More and more vaxxed people are in hospital and ICU, all over the world, those numbers are rising.  People are waking up and realizing that the vaxxed seem to be getting sicker and sicker.

It just ain't true.
 

Quote

Breakthrough COVID Cases Overwhelmingly Mild for Vaccinated People: Study

The new review -- by researchers at the U.S. National Institutes of Health -- found that vaccinated adults who got breakthrough infections rarely got severely ill. Respiratory failure, the need for treatment in an intensive care unit, and death were also very rare.

https://www.usnews.com/news/health-news/articles/2022-01-07/breakthrough-covid-cases-overwhelmingly-mild-for-vaccinated-people-study

Note this study involved the more dangerous Delta variant. Stands to reason the outcomes for vaccinated people infected with omicron will fare even better.

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22 minutes ago, eyeball said:

It just ain't true.
 

Note this study involved the more dangerous Delta variant. Stands to reason the outcomes for vaccinated people infected with omicron will fare even better.

It ain't untrue. All over the world, like Israel, UK, Canada, US - up to 80% are vaxxed.

You've been shown the data and the hospital and ICU stats, over and over again.

Did you read the actual study?  Or just the news article?  Did you just quickly Google to find something, anything, that says what you want it to say?

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27 minutes ago, eyeball said:

It just ain't true.
 

Note this study involved the more dangerous Delta variant. Stands to reason the outcomes for vaccinated people infected with omicron will fare even better.

From your link:

Quote

For every 10,000 vaccinated patients who developed COVID, 1.5 died, and 18 had severe outcomes, according to the study. 

If 20 people for every 10,000 AFTER VACCINATION are dying and having severe outcomes - you know that's not a good average for a vaccine, right?

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3 minutes ago, Goddess said:

From your link:

If 20 people for every 10,000 AFTER VACCINATION are dying and having severe outcomes - you know that's not a good average for a vaccine, right?

I haven't got a clue. All I know is that everytime I hear some anti-vaxxer voicing their conviction that vaccines are useless there's no end to the number of people, doctors, studies, experts et al shaking their heads at it.

It's just the way it is with you people. Its just futile, mindless, uninformed, misinformed denial. Denialism surrounds COVID the same way it surrounds climate change. By the same people for much the same reason near as I can tell.

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15 minutes ago, Goddess said:

From your link:

If 20 people for every 10,000 AFTER VACCINATION are dying and having severe outcomes - you know that's not a good average for a vaccine, right?

Of course you deliberately ignore this bit.

Quote

 All of those who had worse outcomes had at least one risk factor leaving them vulnerable to severe COVID, and almost 8 in 10 of those who died had four or more.

 

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23 minutes ago, eyeball said:

I haven't got a clue. All I know is that everytime I hear some anti-vaxxer voicing their conviction that vaccines are useless there's no end to the number of people, doctors, studies, experts et al shaking their heads at it.

It's just the way it is with you people. Its just futile, mindless, uninformed, misinformed denial. Denialism surrounds COVID the same way it surrounds climate change. By the same people for much the same reason near as I can tell.

You’re not in the middle on these things, Eye, and that’s the problem.  You don’t see your one-sidedness.  I see value in vaccination up to a point.  I don’t see the value of high pressure mandates or endless and frequent inoculation, especially when the prescription doesn’t take into account different health profiles.  Omicron is relatively mild and widespread among a mostly vaccinated population.  Why up the pressure to vaccinate, threaten our supply chain, and add to our high cost of living?

Upping the pressure won’t eliminate Omicron.  

Edited by Zeitgeist
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59 minutes ago, eyeball said:

It just ain't true.

Wow, just wow. What "aint true"? Multiple outbreaks in totally vaccinated places, hospitals, care homes, sports teams you name it did not happen and aren't happening? Planes filled with totally, 100% vaccinated travelers, others simply aren't allowed? Did you miss the stories about hospitals calling in Covid positive due to shortages, 99.9% vaccinated? What kind of reality someone saying this lives in? An artificial totalitarian reality created by media and talking head "exsperts"?

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33 minutes ago, dialamah said:

they're all old people with pre-existing conditions.

Such a usual, stamp diversion from the actual point, boring yawn. You can bungee jump, paraglide do all king of crazy activities. You can climb crazy rocks with no harness. And you can certainly absolutely inject whatever you like - into yourself. No problem, whatsoever none.

The problems begin when you try to impose it on others who did not choose it voluntary and freely. Why does it seem so hard to get, at all?

Edited by myata
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1 minute ago, eyeball said:

That the unvaccinated are faring better than the vaccinated.

Sure great but that was not the question though. Can you get back and read what the question was? What seems to be the problem, memory, glasses, who and what can help in these cases?

Bobby have you finished your homework? - Look, such a cute kitten!

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