Ontario Court declares that the Ontario Math Proficiency Test is Unconstitutional

[Army Guy]

12 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

1.   I agree that it can be a slippery slope.  But also keep in mind, Doug Ford brought this in as a political solution to math scores dropping.  The Conservative government of Ontario is known for their so-called 'common sense' solutions to problems.  They even ironically called themselves the 'Common Sense' party.  They brought in Boot Camps for young offenders, whatever that meant, in the 1990s and it was a solution looking for a problem.  It failed.
2. The 'someone' you are talking about is a teacher.  I suppose they can keep taking the test... but what is the point.
3. Right.  So why are they making non-math teachers take the test ?
4. Well, I would agree if you are teaching high-school math, ie. grade 12 calculus, but elementary music teachers must take it also.

1. Well conservative have their issues as well, and in this regards it does not make much sense for many reasons, in fact some intellects are trying to put a stop to it. Some one should point this issue out to him...

Scientists Take a Stand Against ‘Woke Math’ (dailysignal.com)

And in other areas of North America they are taking it to a whole new level, not just math but all the basics. such as the governor of Oregon where standards for 

Quote

while Brown has been conspicuously silent about the controversial bill, her deputy communications director Charles Boyle issued a statement saying that suspending reading, writing, and maths proficiency requirements, while Oregon develops new graduation standards, would benefit the state’s “Black, Latino, Latina, Latinx, Indigenous, Asian, Pacific Islander, Tribal, and students of colour” because, apparently, “leaders from those communities have advocated time and again for equitable graduation standards, along with expanded learning opportunities and support.”

White liberals lowering education standards to ‘help’ black students are actually condemning them to be failures — RT Op-ed

Plus there is Washington, there are taking it to a crazy level. which one would have to ask where are the educators on this topic, it seems they are all for it...I and many other already thought that the standard of schooling in Canada where slipping way behind other nations...removing material once thought as needed like cursive writing, telling time on a clock with arms, they even changed the way we work out math problems, and then there is everyone will pass that grade regardless of performance, yes everyone gets a trophy.  The road to hell is paved with good intentions....i have to wonder where these educators get taught in university and why it is so slanted to the left extreme.

For example, in English, instead of teaching grammar, the new standards will teach the concepts of “White supremacy,” “Institutional racism,” “Structural racism,” and “White privilege.”

In math, the new standards will teach math is used to oppress communities of color.

Washington public school officials lower academic standards as they implement Critical Race Theory » Publications » Washington Policy Center

2.  I was talking about the teacher , someone passed them to become a teacher, which in my opinion reflects a poor education system, why would we be pumping people out the door when they can not meet basic standards set by previous generations of teachers. 

3. Well most classes in the lower grades teachers teach multiply class subjects math , english , etc.... then there is the substitute teacher, they do not know who they are going to be filling in for, or what topic it is. and lets  face it, there are specialty teachers, such as Gym teacher, music teacher, French teacher, that does not really need these skills, I would think it would give yourself a greater strength in the old resume if you did have the basic skills. As a parent i would hope when my kids graduated they could read write, do math and science...and someone held my kid accountable to learn it...

4. They are after all taking the same university class as the next guy, one would have to ask why a university student could not do the basics reading, writing, math, English or French. but i guess they are pushing them through if we have to lower standards to include everyone...and i think this was mentions before , do we really think that certain races are not capable of learning math, or the other basics...that sounds a little racist to me, and it discredits those that have already passed or meet the standards, regardless of race or color...I mean they are going to be paid the same right, why not have the same level of education...

[blackbird]

If NASA or the space administration and industry had adopted affirmative action and hired people based on skin colour or gender, the U.S. would never have achieved all the success in space that they have achieved in the last 50 years.  Affirmative action means choosing people for key jobs, based on race or gender or sexual orientation, rather than merit, education, experience, achievements, or skills.  That would have left America in the dust in the space race.  They probably would never have put a man on the moon, never landed and explored Mars with unmanned spacecraft, never sent the successful space ship to explore Saturn and it's moons, and countless other achievements that required the best minds in the world.  The same situation applies to every achievement, technological advancement, medical discovery, and any other advancement mankind has made.

Edited December 26, 2021 by blackbird

[Zeitgeist]

The dummies who are dumming down curriculum have made a grave fallacy that will dumb down America and elevate countries with the most sophisticated education systems: The problem isn’t the standards themselves, it’s the lack of access to the programming that allows students to meet those standards.  Lowering standards is racist because it’s based on the idea that certain groups aren’t capable of meeting high standards.  Read Woke Racism John McWhoter on this topic.  As Malcom Gladwell rightly illustrates, when you provide the same amount of instructional time to Black students as white (taking into account summer and evening programs), Black students meet the standards at least as well as white students, so let’s focus on bringing up opportunities for access to programs for children from low socioeconomic backgrounds.  It’s not about race but opportunity.  The fact that more Blacks fall into lower socioeconomic strata has to do with historic legacy.  It will level out over time.  

Edited December 26, 2021 by Zeitgeist

[Michael Hardner]

30 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

The dummies who are dumming down curriculum have made a grave fallacy that will dumb down America 

I wanted to follow this but it's off topic twice in the first few words:  this is Ontario and it's not a curriculum issue it's teacher proficiency testing.

[Zeitgeist]

46 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

I wanted to follow this but it's off topic twice in the first few words:  this is Ontario and it's not a curriculum issue it's teacher proficiency testing.

It doesn’t matter.  Ontario is just another iteration of the same trend to lower the standards so more people can meet them.  

[Michael Hardner]

1 hour ago, Zeitgeist said:

It doesn’t matter.  Ontario is just another iteration of the same trend to lower the standards so more people can meet them.  

I contend that the math profiency exam was a political solution to an education problem.

[Zeitgeist]

6 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

I contend that the math profiency exam was a political solution to an education problem.

I agree

[Yzermandius19]

11 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

I contend that the math profiency exam was a political solution to an education problem.

I contend that scrapping that proficiency exam was a legal solution to a political problem, not an educational problem

[WestCanMan]

On 12/26/2021 at 12:18 PM, Michael Hardner said:

I contend that the math profiency exam was a political solution to an education problem.

This is all just a move away from qualifying teachers based on their ability to teach the sciences and towards qualifying them based on their SJW/CRT dogma proficiency (aka racism).

FYI people don't send their kids to school to be subjected to the social/political opinions of people that they don't know. They send them to learn the sciences, language skills, plus a few electives. 

People who don't want to see kids earning credits for a course called "Winning 101: The Trump Years" shouldn't be advocating for the politicization of schools because it's just a matter of time before their kids start being indoctrinated with subject matter that they don't appreciate. 

The most racist thing in all of this is the theory that blacks, FN people, latinos, etc can't qualify to become teachers because they can't learn math. Why should we care if stupid people aren't allowed to teach our future generations? Do population projections show a shortage of Liberal Party of Canada toadies in the future if we don't dumb down our teachers?

I don't even understand the theory that certain groups of people can't do math. For every Katherine Johnson or Douglas Cardinal there are plenty of people just below them who might not be able to teach rocket science but are overqualified to teach grade 8.

Leftards: "Let's start hiring people to teach our children based on the merits of their skin colour!"

Edited December 28, 2021 by WestCanMan

[Army Guy]

On 12/23/2021 at 11:24 AM, Michael Hardner said:

Someone please explain why testing middle school or elementary school homeroom teachers on math is 'merit'.



"wokeness" is mostly an ineffectual illusion - and is best suited for the angertainment most of you eat up...

1. One could ask the question why even test them at all ? if we are willing to drop math, basic math i might add, then what else is on the list, and what is the basic level of education our teachers need to be in front of a class room from JK to grade 9.

There must be standards or we would not be having this shortage of teachers, they could just hire a bunch of Michaels or army guys off the street.

2.  "wokeness" is an illusion, you'll have to walk me through this one Michael, and while this term woke is meant to be degrading, i see it clearly everyday in this country, it least in my opinion.  in fact i have given you already several articles that flash woke in bright red lights. I see our nation slipping deeper into the left , more than it ever has, not just the left but the fringe left...

[blackbird]

On 12/26/2021 at 9:52 AM, Zeitgeist said:

The dummies who are dumming down curriculum have made a grave fallacy that will dumb down America and elevate countries with the most sophisticated education systems: The problem isn’t the standards themselves, it’s the lack of access to the programming that allows students to meet those standards.  Lowering standards is racist because it’s based on the idea that certain groups aren’t capable of meeting high standards.  Read Woke Racism John McWhoter on this topic.  As Malcom Gladwell rightly illustrates, when you provide the same amount of instructional time to Black students as white (taking into account summer and evening programs), Black students meet the standards at least as well as white students, so let’s focus on bringing up opportunities for access to programs for children from low socioeconomic backgrounds.  It’s not about race but opportunity.  The fact that more Blacks fall into lower socioeconomic strata has to do with historic legacy.  It will level out over time.  

You can be sure that China would never put up with this kind of nonsense.  China is advancing rapidly and may become the strongest superpower in the world economically, militarily, technologically, and academically.

[Nationalist]

On 12/21/2021 at 5:10 PM, QuebecOverCanada said:

There are multiple points. 

First off, the anti-racist/white guilt movement has gone too extreme. Even judges let go of common sense and their sense of judgement for ideology. The fact that math tests are deemed discriminatory is preposterous, they are math equations. There is no discrimination in rating a math exam. Discrepancies between groups of people are not caused in that case by racism. The verdict is simply the reflection of an ideology -wokeness- that thinks that every discrepancy between certain groups of people is proof of a privilege, or discrimination. 

Also, there is the fact that there is a crowd out there in English Canada who thinks badly about everything Québec does for maintaining its identity, beit from Bill 101 to 96 to the controversy about Bill 21, it seems to always have someone in Canada crying tears because muh multiculturalism wasn't respected to your extent. You know, if I think we went too far with Bill 21 with the teachers that I think should be exempted, I think Ontario goes too far in the other direction with this judgement. 

Lastly I think it is good that we focus on academic freedom in Québec at least. The quality of social/human sciences lay there. It is not a coincidence we have so many Prime Ministers of Canada who come from Québec. We have excellent academic institutions such as Udem, Laval, McGill among others for only 8 million inhabitants and protecting them from mobs is going to be a good bet for the future. 

Huh. 

You really like the idea of an independent Quebec, don't you?

So...lowering academic requirements to become a teacher in Ontario is a bloody dumb idea.! 

About as dumb as taking a desire for maintaining Quebec's "identity" so far, that you chase businesses away and harm your own people and prosperity. 

And that's really the bottom line for that.

[QuebecOverCanada]

3 minutes ago, Nationalist said:

Huh. 

1.You really like the idea of an independent Quebec, don't you?

2.So...lowering academic requirements to become a teacher in Ontario is a bloody dumb idea.! 

3.About as dumb as taking a desire for maintaining Quebec's "identity" so far, that you chase businesses away and harm your own people and prosperity. 

And that's really the bottom line for that.

1. Yes

2. It is dumb, yes. And we unfortunately partake in almost the same justice system in Québec.

3. Québec maintaining its identity or expanding its autonomy barely hurt its economy at times, it made it prosper more as a whole. Hydro-Québec is the best example of a "socialist agenda" that went through in spite of English Canada and made Québec rich and in demand worldwide for expertise in hydro-electricity. We have 3 universities for a population of 8 million ranked in the top 100 worldwide. 

I know you might have an inferiority complex, especially since we outclass you intellectually but we also invented the poutine first of all, and we make up 70% ot all maple syrup production of Canada. We thus control you by the balls and you should bow down to us. Thank you.

[Nationalist]

9 minutes ago, QuebecOverCanada said:

1. Yes

2. It is dumb, yes. And we unfortunately partake in almost the same justice system in Québec.

3. Québec maintaining its identity or expanding its autonomy barely hurt its economy at times, it made it prosper more as a whole. Hydro-Québec is the best example of a "socialist agenda" that went through in spite of English Canada and made Québec rich and in demand worldwide for expertise in hydro-electricity. We have 3 universities for a population of 8 million ranked in the top 100 worldwide. 

I know you might have an inferiority complex, especially since we outclass you intellectually but we also invented the poutine first of all, and we make up 70% ot all maple syrup production of Canada. We thus control you by the balls and you should bow down to us. Thank you.

Gee whizz. A perfect example of why the major banks pulled up stakes, along with any number of major corporations, and left Quebec. Also a nice example of why the province has never really recovered from that.

Bravo.

[Yzermandius19]

2 hours ago, blackbird said:

You can be sure that China would never put up with this kind of nonsense.  China is advancing rapidly and may become the strongest superpower in the world economically, militarily, technologically, and academically.

very fake news

America will have the top spot for the forseeable future

China is vastly overrated and boxed in by it's enemies

and totally reliant on America economically

claims of China taking over have been greatly exaggerated

Edited December 31, 2021 by Yzermandius19

[blackbird]

28 minutes ago, Yzermandius19 said:

very fake news

America will have the top spot for the forseeable future

China is vastly overrated and boxed in by it's enemies

and totally reliant on America economically

claims of China taking over have been greatly exaggerated

I hope you are correct, but I wouldn't be so sure.

Documentaries tell a different story.  One said China will surpass the U.S. within 20 years.   

Don't forget that there are ties between Russia and China, which could make them a double threat to the west.  Also read the book "Alliance of Evil" by LTC. Robert L. Maginnis.  This details the new cold war between the Russia, China on the one hand and the United States on the other.

China: Rise of an Asian giant | Insight | Full Episode - Bing video

Edited December 31, 2021 by blackbird

[Yzermandius19]

21 minutes ago, blackbird said:

I hope you are correct, but I wouldn't be so sure.

Documentaries tell a different story.  One said China will surpass the U.S. within 20 years.   

Don't forget that there are ties between Russia and China, which could make them a double threat to the west.  Also read the book "Alliance of Evil" by LTC. Robert L. Maginnis.  This details the new cold war between the Russia, China on the one hand and the United States on the other.

China: Rise of an Asian giant | Insight | Full Episode - Bing video

China is nowhere near surpassing America

China and Russia are not allies, they are frenemies at best

China's only notable ally is Pakistan 

meanwhile American allies surround China

Edited December 31, 2021 by Yzermandius19

[blackbird]

5 minutes ago, Yzermandius19 said:

China is nowhere near surpassing America

China and Russia are not allies, they are frenemies at best

China's only notable ally is Pakistan 

meanwhile American allies surround China

You haven't read the book I mentioned.  

There are numerous documentaries on the rise of China.

China and Russia are collaborating and the U.S. may be declining for many reasons according to this book.

The Coming War on China - True Story Documentary Channel - Bing video

The Rise Of China - BBC Click - Bing video

Edited December 31, 2021 by blackbird

[Yzermandius19]

4 minutes ago, blackbird said:

You haven't read the book I mentioned.  

There are numerous documentaries on the rise of China.

The Coming War on China - True Story Documentary Channel - Bing video

The Rise Of China - BBC Click - Bing video

I am well aware of the arguments for China being the next superpower

and none of them address the best arguments against it

can't surpass America when you are reliant on stealing their good ideas and can't innovate on your own

narrowing a gap doesn't mean they will overtake

ask Japan

there were plenty of documentaries on the rise of Japan and it eventually surpassing America too, back in the day

they were as wrong then as they are now

Edited December 31, 2021 by Yzermandius19

[blackbird]

45 minutes ago, Yzermandius19 said:

very fake news

America will have the top spot for the forseeable future

China is vastly overrated and boxed in by it's enemies

and totally reliant on America economically

claims of China taking over have been greatly exaggerated

 

3 minutes ago, Yzermandius19 said:

I am well aware of the arguments for China being the next superpower

and none of them address the best arguments against it

can't surpass America when you are reliant on stealing their good ideas and can't innovate on your own

There is far more to it than that.  Read the book and find out. Watch some youtube documentaries.

[Yzermandius19]

3 minutes ago, blackbird said:

There is far more to it than that.  Read the book and find out. Watch some youtube documentaries.

I am aware of all the arguments

they are not compelling

if you find them compelling

it is because you are unaware of the counter-arguments

which are far more compelling

China's weakness vastly outweigh it's strengths

Edited December 31, 2021 by Yzermandius19

[blackbird]

23 minutes ago, Yzermandius19 said:

I am aware of all the arguments

they are not compelling

if you find them compelling

it is because you are unaware of the counter-arguments

which are far more compelling

China's weakness vastly outweigh it's strengths

I have read several books on China's influence in Canada and the west and it is vast.  I am not talking about a nuclear war between China/Russia and the west.  A military war is not the objective.  China's influence in western countries is vast and growing through various ways.  They would consider that a win.  What they can do through their influence and control in the rest of the world is the problem.

Read the book "Hidden Hand" and read the book "Wake Up America - Unrestricted Warfare" written by a former People's Liberation Army officer.  They are not looking for conventional warfare.  That is not how to win.  They have learned the way to get ahead is through influence, propaganda, and control of foreign politicians, former polticians, and people in powerful positions.  They are experts at in.  That's what unrestricted warfare means.

China is not "boxed in".  You are thinking in totally different terms.  China's influence in the world is huge.  They already have a strong influence in the UK, which has pretty well been finished.  Italy and France are strongly under their influence.  Both countries have said they will not be having a diplomatic boycott of the Beijing Olympics and will not be joining the US, Canada, Australia, and the UK in the boycott.

Edited December 31, 2021 by blackbird

[Yzermandius19]

China's diplomatic position is weak af compared to America 

they ain't surpassing America just because they are on the rise and growing in influence 

that's not how it works

if they are such masters than why are they getting their ass kicked?

Edited December 31, 2021 by Yzermandius19

[blackbird]

2 minutes ago, Yzermandius19 said:

China's diplomatic position is weak af compared to America

China's influence is growing sure

but they ain't surpassing America just because they are on the rise

All I can say is read the books I mentioned and others.  Will leave it at that.

[Yzermandius19]

9 minutes ago, blackbird said:

All I can say is read the books I mentioned and others.  Will leave it at that.

All I can say is

read other material other than sources that claim China is ten feet tall

I know your sides arguments, inside and out

you don't know my sides arguments at all

you are the one who has catching up to do on this topic, captain projection

 

China is not close to surpassing America in any of the areas you mention, they aren't even close to catching them either

America will remain well ahead of China militarily, technologically, economically, academically and diplomatically

it isn't particularly threatened in even one of those areas, let alone all of them

Edited December 31, 2021 by Yzermandius19