The push is on of the Omicron or Omnicon virus.

[eyeball]

2 minutes ago, Accountability Now said:

You were so infatuated with finding a semantical error in order to salvage one last hope for salvaging your mistake however even that is blown off its hinges when you put "excellent job".

You seem quite determined to maintain your contextual omission from the discussion.  That's the reason dictionaries include several similar words when defining one - to better hone their use in everyday language.  Apparently English is one of the hardest languages for people to learn. 

[BubberMiley]

1 minute ago, Accountability Now said:

Dude. We were talking spread and not hospitalizations. Stop lying and gain one ounce of integrity already.

Now you're trying create a world where the number of active covid cases doesn't have an impact on spread? Who else lives in this world with you?

[myata]

1 minute ago, Accountability Now said:

Stop lying and gain one ounce of integrity

That has to be at least possible, physically ... apart from distant possibility of a total and perfect naivite, honestly confusing "spread" with "hospitalizations" (and even then...)

[Accountability Now]

Just now, BubberMiley said:

Come on AN. Have a bit of integrity. You made the claim, were caught in the misunderstanding of what simple words mean, and now refuse to admit you are wrong.  Grow a set and accept you are wrong instead of making a preposterous claim about which one of us understands basic data. What you said was put right in your face and yet you still play the part of the idiot. Be better than that.  

If you want to go on to discuss other aspects of this conversation then I suggest you learn how to debate honestly. 

I can always tell when someone is backed into a corner as they don't actually tag the other person on their reply. They hope they can sneak one past them in an unscrupulous manner. Well done Bubber, you win the Lack of Integrity Award today. 

Having said that, I can't continue to hold your hand on this. You clearly stated things and I pointed them out as obvious mistakes. If you can't deal with it then take your ball and go home. Come back when you have the big boy pants on and are able to debate honestly and rationally. 

 

[Accountability Now]

2 minutes ago, eyeball said:

You seem quite determined to maintain your contextual omission from the discussion.  

Nope. I posted his exact response to the exact original post. I never omitted anything but keep trying. If you want I will screen shot it AGAIN so that you can process it. 

 

[BubberMiley]

I don't press usually quote because then I have to delete all the irrelevant text and that's tricky on a phone.

So if that's your only counter argument left now that you have learned what the simple words we are using mean, I guess I won.

[Accountability Now]

3 minutes ago, BubberMiley said:

Now you're trying create a world where the number of active covid cases doesn't have an impact on spread? Who else lives in this world with you?

What F'n delusion are you on to now??? I showed you the number of ACTIVE cases in Ontario being ~80% in the fully vaxxed. You're telling me those ACTIVE cases aren't the ones spreading Covid??? ??

[Accountability Now]

Just now, BubberMiley said:

I don't press usually quote because then I have to delete all the irrelevant text and that's tricky on a phone.

So if that's your only counter argument left now that you have learned what the simple words we are using mean, I guess I won.

Dude...the only thing you won today was Most Idiotic Post. Please come back when you can argue honestly and with integrity

[Goddess]

47 minutes ago, BubberMiley said:

Yes, when the other 50% come from the 20% unvaccinated. It's kind of undeniable really.

You're talking percentages when you have been asked to defend your claim that "vaccination prevents hospitalization."

If it actually prevented hospitalization, as you claim, there would be NO cases of fully vaxxed people in the hospital with covid.

It's obvious that with so many vaxxed in the hospital for covid, it is not "preventing" hospitalization, nor is it "preventing" spread among people who are vaxxed.

I'm unsure if you are just pretending to not understand this, or if you really do not understand........

[BubberMiley]

7 minutes ago, Accountability Now said:

What F'n delusion are you on to now??? I showed you the number of ACTIVE cases in Ontario being ~80% in the fully vaxxed. You're telling me those ACTIVE cases aren't the ones spreading Covid??? ??

No, I'm not. I'm saying it would be spreading more if they were unvaccinated. 

This is why it's hard to argue with the borderline literate. They read things that aren't there.

[BubberMiley]

Just now, Goddess said:

You're talking percentages when you have been asked to defend your claim that "vaccination prevents hospitalization."

If it actually prevented hospitalization, as you claim, there would be NO cases of fully vaxxed people in the hospital with covid.

 

Ask Accountability Now to explain to you the difference in meaning between the words "prevent" and "stop" while it's still fresh in his brain.

[Accountability Now]

My arguments to date have been for data in Ontario and Alberta as those are the two that I have chosen to follow. But lets just look at Bubber's home province of Manitoba. 

 

74.7% fully vaxxed are incurring 81.3% of the cases. Man those vaccines are REALLY stopping, preventing, halting, reducing spread. 

Hospital numbers on the rise too....58.5% of hosptalizations. 60% of ICU. The only category that still favors the vaxxed is deaths but again....97% of deaths occur with people that have pre-existing conditions. However we can't add another metric into this already confusing argument. ?

[eyeball]

2 hours ago, BubberMiley said:

But they're preventing symptoms, hospitalization, and death.

Does it not stand to reason that milder symptoms and fewer hospitalizations will result in less spread?  I'm trying to keep this in perspective with the realization that many of vaccinated people in the hospital with COVID appear to be older and often with other health-compromising conditions.  Perhaps omicron makes up for that by being more infectious but the bottom line appears to be that the vast VAST majority of expert opinion and advice is that vaccine makes the world a better place.

[Accountability Now]

5 minutes ago, BubberMiley said:

No, I'm not. I'm saying it would be spreading more if they were unvaccinated. 

This is why it's hard to argue with the borderline literate. They read things that aren't there.

Your logic is like saying this magic rock is preventing me from getting Covid. Since I don't have covid it must be true. It is not possible to prove a negative in science.  I also don't have cancer, AIDS or the flu...must be the rock. 

If the unvaccinated are catching it at the SAME rate as the vaccinated, then your statement is categorically FALSE. 

[eyeball]

2 minutes ago, Accountability Now said:

Your logic is like saying this magic rock is preventing me from getting Covid. Since I don't have covid it must be true. It is not possible to prove a negative in science.  I also don't have cancer, AIDS or the flu...must be the rock. 

If the unvaccinated are catching it at the SAME rate as the vaccinated, then your statement is categorically FALSE. 

Speaking of logic, I think it's fair to say that more people would be sick and dying in the world is there was no vaccine at all.

[myata]

Imagine you signed a contract for prevention of pest infestation in your place with a local exspert ... . Next day after successful treatment (and so many $$$ spent, out of your pocket - you thought it was government's, right) 80 or so mice show up and perform a dance on your table. You go to the exspert and they get a pocket dictionary out of pocket, no $$ sorry all spent on effective management. Your thoughts? (no expletives, please)

Edited January 5, 2022 by myata

[Accountability Now]

Just now, eyeball said:

Speaking of logic, I think it's fair to say that more people would be sick and dying in the world is there was no vaccine at all.

To try and say my cold is worse than your cold is purely subjective and impossible to actually quantify. The best way for quantification is the number of hospitalizations, ICU and death. Up until this point I accepted that the vaccines prevented more severe illness as the numbers supported it.  However two things:

1. There is a time limit on those vaccines as shown early in the UK and Israel, and now showing here

2. New variants will evade these vaccines making them less effective, possibly to the point of being useless. 

In both of these cases the NEW numbers make a quantitative statement that shows the vaccines are losing their effectiveness.  They don't stop spread and mildly reduce hospitalization (give it another week and it may be no reduction)

The only way that one can say the vaccines are doing anything is by the numbers and sadly they aren't favoring your side right now. Perhaps boosters will change those numbers but word is the boosters only last 10 weeks. What will the 4th booster last...3 weeks? 

 

[Aristides]

12 minutes ago, myata said:

Imagine you signed a contract for prevention of pest infestation in your place with a local exspert ... . Next day after successful treatment (and so many $$$ spent, out of your pocket - you thought it was government's, right) 80 or so mice show up and perform a dance on your table. You go to the exspert and they get a pocket dictionary out of pocket, no $$ sorry all spent on effective management. Your thoughts? (no expletives, please)

Explain how you "manage" pests.

[myata]

7 minutes ago, Aristides said:

Explain how you "manage" pests.

Why don't we ask our fearless, $30,000 (monthly) infection management exsperts? Success follows every step and action, just look!

[taxme]

17 hours ago, blackbird said:

As someone on the older side with heart problems, I would have to vote no to returning everything to normal.  Why?  Because I would like to stay alive.  I take all possible measures to avoid Covid, but one only do so much and sometimes I have to go to places where there are other people.  I do so cautiously with a mask as close to N95 as I can find.  Spend most time at home, but I still have to go out sometimes for essential things/reasons.  I don't really want to wander into a mass of people spreading Covid around. 

I might also might need the use of the hospital and would not like to see the medical system collapse or be overrun with Covid patients.  It's bad enough now that the medical system is putting cardiac and cancer patients on hold, claiming they are "elective" surgery patients.  The word "elective" is dishonest and deceptive.  Many of them are urgent cases who have just as much right to health care as anyone else.  Reportedly thousands have died waiting.  Canada' public health care system is ignoring treating everyone and everyone has a right to health care.  So much for the "public" health care system.  I would give it a rating of 2 out of 5.  They have to find a way to treat everyone in a timely manner.

You really need to start to grow up and start to think for yourself rather than allow your Marxist politicians and the Marxist media do your thinking for you. I have news for you. Those two mentioned above could careless about your health and safety and well being. It's now all about power and control over we the peasants. You need to quit with your constant fear and panic over this covid scamdemic. You need to burst that stupid bubble that you are living in and try and get yourself back to normal. 

Being fully vaccinated and constantly being forced to wear a clown mask has done nothing to stop the spread of covid. It really has nothing to do with any virus, and never was, but more to do with pushing vaccines for the big pharma globalists by our Marxist politicians and the Marxist media whom are making hundreds of billions of dollars off of all those fools that keep believing in this covid nonsense and keep getting themselves vaccinated with an experimental vaccine. 

We are all now being forced to live in a medical like tyranny madness and insanity world that if we the peasants do not end this covid farce soon, we will all end up living in a communist country. Canada is well on it's way to becoming a communist country. We the peasants are not allowed to do anything anymore without the permission of the government thru the issuing of a vaccine mandated passport. Without that passport one pretty much cannot do a dam thing anymore. That is what I call complete communist control. Our rights and freedoms that we once had and took for granted have now been pretty much taken away from us all. Come on peasants, wake the hell up will you. REFUSE THE BOOSTER. It's your call.  ?

 

[eyeball]

23 minutes ago, Accountability Now said:

To try and say my cold is worse than your cold is purely subjective and impossible to actually quantify.

I don't know about your wife but mine laughs out loud at the notion of the man-cold.

Quote

 

The best way for quantification is the number of hospitalizations, ICU and death. Up until this point I accepted that the vaccines prevented more severe illness as the numbers supported it.  However two things:

1. There is a time limit on those vaccines as shown early in the UK and Israel, and now showing here

2. New variants will evade these vaccines making them less effective, possibly to the point of being useless. 

In both of these cases the NEW numbers make a quantitative statement that shows the vaccines are losing their effectiveness.  They don't stop spread and mildly reduce hospitalization (give it another week and it may be no reduction)

The only way that one can say the vaccines are doing anything is by the numbers and sadly they aren't favoring your side right now. Perhaps boosters will change those numbers but word is the boosters only last 10 weeks. What will the 4th booster last...3 weeks?

 

Who knows in any case it looks like we're entering let 'er' rip mode which apparently bodes well for your side finally.  See you at the party after the finish line when the dust finally settles I guess.  I'm living in hope because the pandemic does seem to be unfolding in a manner consistent with what experts were saying, that both a vaccine and safer variants would lead to a path away from this.  If they were wrong at all it was to predict vaccine and less dangerous variant would take longer than they have.  Fingers crossed.  

[taxme]

1 hour ago, Accountability Now said:

My arguments to date have been for data in Ontario and Alberta as those are the two that I have chosen to follow. But lets just look at Bubber's home province of Manitoba. 

 

74.7% fully vaxxed are incurring 81.3% of the cases. Man those vaccines are REALLY stopping, preventing, halting, reducing spread. 

Hospital numbers on the rise too....58.5% of hosptalizations. 60% of ICU. The only category that still favors the vaxxed is deaths but again....97% of deaths occur with people that have pre-existing conditions. However we can't add another metric into this already confusing argument. ?

I am so anxious and just cannot wait to see and hear about the next new covid scariant virus that should be coming around in the next few months. Probably this new covid scariant virus will be the big grand daddy of them all. It must happen. 

I mean that if our big pharma globalists, of course with the help of our dear Marxist political leaders, can get their way in order to keep this scamdemic going then they will need and want to create something even bigger to come along like maybe a real virus like plague. Then another second and third booster jabs will be required to save our peasants sorry asses from dying from the ever increasing number of covid viruses that keep popping up every so often.

Our politicians sure do love their covids. Just look at all the power and control that they now have over we the peasants that this covid scamdemic farce has given them. Every day we keep losing bits and pieces of our rights and freedoms. 

Enough already. ?

[taxme]

37 minutes ago, eyeball said:

I don't know about your wife but mine laughs out loud at the notion of the man-cold.

Who knows in any case it looks like we're entering let 'er' rip mode which apparently bodes well for your side finally.  See you at the party after the finish line when the dust finally settles I guess.  I'm living in hope because the pandemic does seem to be unfolding in a manner consistent with what experts were saying, that both a vaccine and safer variants would lead to a path away from this.  If they were wrong at all it was to predict vaccine and less dangerous variant would take longer than they have.  Fingers crossed.  

Only we the peasants can end this covid medical tyranny madness and insanity once and for all. Refuse the boost. ?. 

[Zeitgeist]

Given the current level of risk, we must not allow the current level of state control over human behaviour to continue.  It’s clear that we are giving up on the freedoms that made our country  one of the greatest places to live.  The article below makes it clear that our current authoritarianism may become permanent, and it’s from “mainstream media”:

https://apple.news/AXekVAkcmTReyixcu_az1Zg

[Goddess]

22 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

Given the current level of risk, we must not allow the current level of state control over human behaviour to continue.  It’s clear that we are giving up on the freedoms that made our country  one of the greatest places to live.  The article below makes it clear that our current authoritarianism may become permanent, and it’s from “mainstream media”:

https://apple.news/AXekVAkcmTReyixcu_az1Zg

Good article.  People scoff when I tell them I already see covid and climate change becoming entangled in politics and that the vax passports will morph into other uses - climate change being one of them.

Maybe this will wake people up:

 

Quote

 

Writes Mittiga, “Authoritarian governance is a blunt instrument, only to be wielded in times of great exigency.”

Climate change is one of those times, although Mittiga spends much wordage explaining that the authoritarian approach should be adopted only when all non-authoritarian options have proven to be ineffective. Such is the case with climate change. After “decades of inaction,” a climate emergency has developed that requires “emergency of action.”

Authoritarian climate governance might include prohibitions on eating meat “even if doing so cuts against the wishes of democratic publics or violates individual or group-based rights.”

 

A “censorship regime” might be necessary to curb climate deniers. Or there may be a need to relax property rights “in order to nationalize, shutter, or re-purpose certain companies, particularly in the energy and agricultural sectors.”

 

None of this is especially novel or shocking. As U.S. climate skeptic Marc Morano writes in response to Mittiga, the COVID-carbon link has been well-established. Celebrated socialist economist Mariana Mazzucato long ago suggested that unless we do capitalism differently, climate “lockdowns” may be needed to “limit private-vehicle use, ban consumption of red meat, and impose extreme energy-saving measures, while fossil-fuel companies would have to stop drilling.”

And so, as the pandemic crisis eventually recedes, the ideas behind the policy approaches to COVID-19 will not go with it. 

 

I've said for a while now, all those cheering on and complying with the restrictions will be cryin' when they can't buy those steaks they wanted for dinner, can't go see their grandchildren because they used up all their carbon credits or experience climate lockdown after lockdown......

They wanted the government to have all the power over individual choices and now they will choke on it.