20th of September 2021, next federal elections

[Argus]

O'Toole needs to look at what happened in Nova Scotia, and the groundswell of support the Tories got there when they promised to address health care issues. Despite health care being considered provincial, the Canada Health Act controls what the provinces can and can't do, and that's federal. The feds also contribute a lot of money to health care in transfer payments. Any major changes need to come at the federal level, which opens the door for O'Toole to promise some.

We need to throw out our old, 1960s Socialist system and bring in the kind of mixed systems they have in Western Europe which all seem to perform better than us on almost every measurable metric. If he does that he'd win the election.

[Army Guy]

On 8/16/2021 at 9:37 AM, myata said:

The implicit message in that statement is that only those two options are available to us. Oats or porridge, if not oats then has to be the porridge. And so, no modern 21st century democracy with responsible and accountable governments, and effective checks and balances uncovering and preventing abuses of power, not acknowledging them two (or more) decades later.

True enough, but Canadians have been programed to vote this way... And they are alright with it, everything can change it just takes will of the majority.

 

[Queenmandy85]

15 hours ago, Army Guy said:

True enough, but Canadians have been programed to vote this way... And they are alright with it, everything can change it just takes will of the majority.

 

The Grits and the Tories are the only parties that form government because they most closely reflect the mood of the electorate. If voters would stop voting for splinter parties, the whining about electoral reform would vanish.

[myata]

Nope, oats or porridge dilemma does not prove that these are best and only possible foods in the Universe. Make the competition fair and equal, make it proportional to the number of voters too and then we'll see who  the leaders are and how good they are. This is like in a championship, fixing extra weight on other competitors and they saying these two that did not have it were "natural winners".

[ironstone]

On 8/18/2021 at 8:01 PM, August1991 said:

I disagree.

To win a majority, the federal Liberals need 170 seats.

The BQ will get possibly 40 seats in Quebec. The NDP will keep their 24 seats or more. And the Tories will keep their 120 seats. Total opposition? 184.

At present, this is a war of attrition. Unless it turns into something else and Trudeau Jnr becomes "Biden leaving Afghanistan", "Gordon of Khartoum" or "Peterson of Toronto". You never know. 

The thing is that the NDP, Bloc and Greens(if there are any) will almost always support the Liberals and their woke agenda. It's another reason I don't like this election timing since the Liberals in a sense have the next best thing to a majority. The Conservatives are kind of woke too.

[Queenmandy85]

1 hour ago, myata said:

Nope, oats or porridge dilemma does not prove that these are best and only possible foods in the Universe. Make the competition fair and equal, make it proportional to the number of voters too and then we'll see who  the leaders are and how good they are. This is like in a championship, fixing extra weight on other competitors and they saying these two that did not have it were "natural winners".

That boils down to proportional representation, the stupidest electoral scheme only slightly better than a military dictatorship. If you are going to waste your vote on a splinter party, don't bother to vote. It was the scheming clowns in the NDP that killed electoral reform by insisting on PR. We only need two parties, one right- centre and one left-centre. PR leads to dozens of parties and paralysis in Parliament. Minority government is bad for the Realm.

[Queenmandy85]

20 hours ago, Army Guy said:

True enough, but Canadians have been programed to vote this way... And they are alright with it, everything can change it just takes will of the majority.

 

Or another way of looking at it is they vote this way because that is what they want and programming has nothing to do with it. We have the won't of the majority. Rule number one in politics - the voter is always right. This will clearly impact my previous post because a segment of the voting public support splinter parties like the NDP. 

[myata]

3 hours ago, Queenmandy85 said:

That boils down to proportional representation, the stupidest electoral scheme ...

Many words can be said as nothing limits egress of words (in contrast to the results) but one cannot simultaneously claim winning a competition while avoiding and suppressing competition. This is not words already but logic and it wouldn't give. To claim that they're best or even worthy one has to compete against equals and on equal terms. Surely, Putin in Russia, Communist party in China and so on are the best possible rulers of their countries, and you already have a serious clue why.

Think about book award, where through twists and tricks of the systems only two authors are allowed to compete. We are the greatest authors ever, and only us can write books. But of course, as you say.

Edited August 20, 2021 by myata

[Queenmandy85]

1 hour ago, myata said:

Surely, Putin in Russia, Communist party in China and so on are the best possible rulers of their countries

I am surprised you admire Putin and Xi. 

[Queenmandy85]

6 hours ago, myata said:

Nope, oats or porridge dilemma does not prove that these are best and only possible foods in the Universe

Why not fillet Mignon vs. rack of lamb? Usually the process of choosing a party leader in Canada involves a contest between several candidates. Why do we need so many political parties? 

[Army Guy]

2 hours ago, Queenmandy85 said:

Or another way of looking at it is they vote this way because that is what they want and programming has nothing to do with it. We have the won't of the majority. Rule number one in politics - the voter is always right. This will clearly impact my previous post because a segment of the voting public support splinter parties like the NDP. 

Sorry queen i don't see it that way at all, his first election  pretty much went "anything  but Conservatives", lots of on the fence voters bought into this campaign...Like i have said before Justins campaign team are one of the best...

Most Canadians are going to vote for the party with the most money on the table... has nothing to with real politics. And if each voter was right, Justin be back teaching drama classes by now, instead we have a system that provides an unfair advantage to certain areas in the country , you remember the one Justin promised to change...

People are voting for splinter parties because they crave change, right now we have all the way left Liberals, or liberal lite conservatives...Spending is the only thing Canadians want to see, and more social programs.   i think because they have lost hope in the major parties......

[Queenmandy85]

1 hour ago, Army Guy said:

we have a system that provides an unfair advantage to certain areas in the country , you remember the one Justin promised to change...

And Justin did try to change it but the NDP blocked it. Those certain areas have the advantage because geography puts the population concentrations there. Economic power is the product of geography. If Western Canada were to separate, we would possibly trade a Liberal government for an NDP government, but the power would still be concentrated in the Toronto - Montreal - New York axis with Vancouver on the left coast. 

Edited August 21, 2021 by Queenmandy85

[Queenmandy85]

1 hour ago, Army Guy said:

Most Canadians are going to vote for the party with the most money on the table... has nothing to with real politics.

Where do you think that money comes from? Voters. The more voter support, the more money. As the Old Chief used to say, there are more votes on Main Street than there are on Bay Street. The Progressive Conservatives perfected the modern small donation fundraising system.

Most Canadians are slightly left of centre. That is why the grits are the Natural Governing Party.

 

Edited August 21, 2021 by Queenmandy85

[Argus]

21 hours ago, Queenmandy85 said:

And Justin did try to change it but the NDP blocked it. 

That is simply not true.

[Army Guy]

23 hours ago, Queenmandy85 said:

Where do you think that money comes from? Voters. The more voter support, the more money. As the Old Chief used to say, there are more votes on Main Street than there are on Bay Street. The Progressive Conservatives perfected the modern small donation fundraising system.

Most Canadians are slightly left of centre. That is why the grits are the Natural Governing Party.

 

Wrong, less than half of that money does come from tax payers... the rest comes from a variety of sources... But it does not take a brain surgeon to figure out the liberals are spending on average 20 bil more than what we make of GDP, and thats not counting the fact our GDP grew by 20 bil the same year, so the liberals managed to squander 40 bil each and every year they have been in power... So while it would be great to have all these social programs Justin has put in place It is not sustainable over the long run...So either taxes go up, as with every thing else due to carbon taxes...or Justin is lying to all of us...he has never lied before right ? 

Most Canadians are not left of center...most Canadians are conservatives, it is the way our electoral districts are divided that give liberals the advantage...

[Queenmandy85]

I didn't say any donations are from taxpayers. It comes from voters who donate money. If the Grits are spending billions on campaign expenses, don't you think Elections Canada would have something to say about that?

15 hours ago, Army Guy said:

Most Canadians are not left of center...most Canadians are conservatives, it is the way our electoral districts are divided that give liberals the advantage...

Currently 31 % of voters support the CPC and about 64% of voters support the left of centre parties. 

17 hours ago, Argus said:

That is simply not true.

The electoral reform failed because the NDP insisted on proportional representation and would not accept a proper election system. Without consensus among the main parties, the process could not proceed. Do you believe it would have been acceptable for the Grits to impose their preferred system on the other parties? That kind of change requires buy-in from all parties.

[Argus]

51 minutes ago, Queenmandy85 said:

The electoral reform failed because the NDP insisted on proportional representation and would not accept a proper election system. 

The Liberals backed down on the idea when they realized the overwhelming preference of Canadian was for a system which would not benefit them.

[Army Guy]

3 hours ago, Queenmandy85 said:

I didn't say any donations are from taxpayers. It comes from voters who donate money. If the Grits are spending billions on campaign expenses, don't you think Elections Canada would have something to say about that?

Currently 31 % of voters support the CPC and about 64% of voters support the left of centre parties. 

The electoral reform failed because the NDP insisted on proportional representation and would not accept a proper election system. Without consensus among the main parties, the process could not proceed. Do you believe it would have been acceptable for the Grits to impose their preferred system on the other parties? That kind of change requires buy-in from all parties.

I think we are talking about 2 different topics, I was implying that Justin is buying votes by promising huge funding to certain groups... This money is tax payers/ GDP money, like he has said in the media before, the budget will balance itself and i don't pay attention to economic policy, "ok it is not just him that thinks that way, but the majority of Canadians as well, we'll just print more....interests rates are low, who cares...deficit means nothing these days, what counts is how much will the government give me... Here is the kicker, the left still believe Justin is going to deliver on those promises, infact Canadians are not smart enough to know when they are being lied to... happens every 4 years and every 4 years they get duped into believing they are going to get something...What the left has not figured out yet is at what point are these spending sprees going to end with bad consequences, we should ask Greece how all of that works out for them.  

Thats not what i meant, my point was the majority of voters voted for Conservative party, the rest did not vote for the left but rather by party break down...

[Queenmandy85]

The CPC received 34.34 % and the Grits and NDP received a combined total of 49.47 %. Add the Greens and the left has a majority of 56.02%.

As for promises, I refer to the Rt. Hon. John Crosby: "If we told you what we were going to do, you wouldn't have voted for us." Election promises are part of the theatre. None of the leaders could responsibly implement their promises. It has nothing to do with the party label. In the long run, it doesn't make much difference whether Mr. Trudeau or Mr. O'Toole wins. The actions of the government will be the same because it is circumstances that dictate government action and the range of options is very narrow.

There are a few constants in Canadian government. Canadians want champaign services funded by beer taxes. Everyone wants to go to heaven, but nobody wants to die to get there.

Edited August 22, 2021 by Queenmandy85

[-TSS-]

Trudeau is the best internationally known Canadian PM for a long time. Outside of Canada it is not considered a sign of poor general knowledge not to know who the PM of Canada is but everybody knows Justin Trudeau.

If that other guy wins the election he will be almost completely unknown outside Canada.

Having said all this, Trudeau has become a bit of an embarassment for Canada. Did you see the clip where he called recession shecession? It meant something like that the difficult economic times have been harsher for women than men.

Of course a lot of people didn't understand what that was all about. It was shetarded for sure.

 

[Argus]

1 hour ago, Queenmandy85 said:

The CPC received 34.34 % and the Grits and NDP received a combined total of 49.47 %. Add the Greens and the left has a majority of 56.02%.

Almost half of Canadians pay no income tax. Naturally, their votes mostly go to whatever parties promise them the most stuff - since they aren't the ones paying for it. In addition, the left benefit from the fact public servants and their families will generally prefer parties which want big government with lots of employees, and are generous with salaries and benefits. There are there and a half million people employed in the public sector in Canada. 

Given the above, it's actually astonishing how the Tories manage to get elected at all.

[Queenmandy85]

That's democracy. The government gives the people what they want. Now ask me why I am a Monarchist.

As for the CPC (Tories are PC and extinct), like everything else, if it were easy, it wouldn't be fun. 

[QuebecOverCanada]

So, Libs minority or majority?

[Army Guy]

I think it is to close to call... just yet.

 

[WestCanMan]

The Canadians took seats away from the Libs in the Atlantic Provinces. At least 4 so far, maybe more.

What we still need:

1) the Bloc to take away some seats from the turd in Que

2) the PCs to pick up some seats in O'Toole's home turf.