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Ontario needs to invest in EVs as a realistic Option.


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On 10/25/2022 at 5:19 PM, herbie said:

Carrying 800kms of gas makes you go to the gas station more often. I have 2 mid size SUVs that max out less than 60L that's less than 600 kms.

Of course you might be like the guy who looked me in the eye and said his 68 Charger with the 440 six-pack got 20 mpg when I knew if he said 10 he was lying. Or all the guys with F150s who tell me they can make a 400km trip to go shopping for only a 'few bucks'.

Like I said many times it ain't gov't regulations and taxes that will force you buy an EV, it's the sucking greed of the oil companies who know you didn't stop buying gas at $2.50L so they'll damn well try for $3.50L next excuse. FFS I just watched people buy $80 turkeys and bleat how that's the government's fault.

It's the astonishing stupidity of today's Conservatives. 

Carbon Taxes have a goal. The disincentivize people from polluting. But they aren't anywhere near punitive enough to stop people from driving.

What's punitive is Oil Companies profit taking and cutting production as Economies try to recover from COVID. But Conservatives can't criticize the free market, so it's the Carbon taxes fault, making up a small fraction of the price of a litre of gasoline. 

I decided to get an EV when it was time to replace my Chevy Cruz because I knew I still needed to regularly commute 90 kms a day to work and saw that Carbon taxes aren't going anywhere nor is profit taking from Oil Companies. So I made the decision to pay more for a car so I didn't have to be such a hostage to oil companies. 

Edited by Boges
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  • 1 month later...

There are going to be soooo many problems with this mandate. But governments always know best right?

Someone made a silly point earlier that carrying 800km of gas makes me go to the gas station more often. For the sake of comparison, I'm carrying around about 75lbs which gets lighter as I drive. An EV battery is around 1000lbs of weight for half the range at best, and that weight is constant. That's for half the range...which declines annually.

In the videos posted above, there are still major hurdles to overcome, some of which may defy the limits of physics.

I've said repeatedly, I favor the all of the above approach. We will still have to pay those high taxes one way or another.

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2 hours ago, ironstone said:

There are going to be soooo many problems with this mandate. But governments always know best right?

Someone made a silly point earlier that carrying 800km of gas makes me go to the gas station more often. For the sake of comparison, I'm carrying around about 75lbs which gets lighter as I drive. An EV battery is around 1000lbs of weight for half the range at best, and that weight is constant. That's for half the range...which declines annually.

In the videos posted above, there are still major hurdles to overcome, some of which may defy the limits of physics.

I've said repeatedly, I favor the all of the above approach. We will still have to pay those high taxes one way or another.

Like? Battery Tech will constantly evolve. 

It's like it's engrained in Conservative psyche to find a way to fight all forms of innovation. 

Think of where EVs were 10 years ago to now. Imagine where they'll be in 10 years. Governments can't let the interests of Oil Companies dictate how they want to proceed in the long term. 

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41 minutes ago, Boges said:

Like? Battery Tech will constantly evolve. 

It's like it's engrained in Conservative psyche to find a way to fight all forms of innovation. 

Think of where EVs were 10 years ago to now. Imagine where they'll be in 10 years. Governments can't let the interests of Oil Companies dictate how they want to proceed in the long term. 

Where do you think battery tech will be in 10 years? What do you think the limits will be?

It's debatable if oil companies are dictating to governments now. Maybe they are, maybe not. But what big business entities are dictating to the governments now about EV's?

I still think governments should not be forcing consumers into this.

Engineering Explained on YouTube has a few interesting videos about this subject listing the pros and cons of each side.

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40 minutes ago, ironstone said:

Where do you think battery tech will be in 10 years? What do you think the limits will be?

It's debatable if oil companies are dictating to governments now. Maybe they are, maybe not. But what big business entities are dictating to the governments now about EV's?

I still think governments should not be forcing consumers into this.

Engineering Explained on YouTube has a few interesting videos about this subject listing the pros and cons of each side.

If the decision is made to move away from Fossil Fuels, this is an important way to do it.

The bigger issues to tackle is our food system and shipping. But EVs are a tangible change because people can buy EVs now, and most people use cars. 

I think Solid State Batteries will but a game-changer. 

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41 minutes ago, herbie said:

Only If you want to debate the entire population of N America all by yourself.

So, many governments worldwide are moving quickly away from oil and gas use and pretty much trying to discourage more exploration, and you are claiming that these same oil companies are dictating to them?

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Just as you keep claiming the mere lip service the Liberals spout as extreme environmentalism? Hmm there's still billions of tax incentives shelled out for oil companies.

How many abandoned or spent wells in Alberta were cleaned up without using your tax dollars? Do you need 2 hands to count them?

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On 10/27/2022 at 9:36 AM, Boges said:

It's the astonishing stupidity of today's Conservatives. 

Carbon Taxes have a goal. The disincentivize people from polluting. But they aren't anywhere near punitive enough to stop people from driving.

What's punitive is Oil Companies profit taking and cutting production as Economies try to recover from COVID. But Conservatives can't criticize the free market, so it's the Carbon taxes fault, making up a small fraction of the price of a litre of gasoline. 

I decided to get an EV when it was time to replace my Chevy Cruz because I knew I still needed to regularly commute 90 kms a day to work and saw that Carbon taxes aren't going anywhere nor is profit taking from Oil Companies. So I made the decision to pay more for a car so I didn't have to be such a hostage to oil companies. 

I still have to drive to work but now I must pay more. Goods still are transported largely with the use of fossil fuels as EV's at this time are incapable of fulfilling that role. And I'm talking about big transport trucks, railways, not pizza delivery which presumably could be done by an EV. 

Carbon taxes also end making people spend less money because they obviously have less disposable income.

You are aware that your EV was built with the use of fossil fuels right? It's not cheap to make those batteries. Nor will it be cheap to recycle them as they drop in performance every year in the life of the car.

And for the umpteenth time, I have no problems with EV's in the marketplace, I just don't want to be forced or coerced into buying one. Nor do I want my tax dollars to subsidize others who want to buy them.

If a person wants to move into a new house, it makes sense to wait until the house is actually completed.

The West can pretend to go green while they virtue signal in their EV's. The cobalt in your EV likely came from this place.

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Oh FFS the wood that made your house was stolen off Indian lands. Give up the deflection.

I happen to live where about 300 logging trucks a day go to the sawmill near Quesnel. So do the train tracks from here, but they insist trucking is more economical. We also saw diesel spike to nearly $3/L and that didn't stop them, and not a penny of that increase was carbon tax. Things change, people will adjust, and you will too. They'll have 1200hp Dodge Chargers out there soon enough. Who the hell cares what it runs on?

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On 12/28/2022 at 10:40 AM, ironstone said:

I still have to drive to work but now I must pay more. Goods still are transported largely with the use of fossil fuels as EV's at this time are incapable of fulfilling that role. And I'm talking about big transport trucks, railways, not pizza delivery which presumably could be done by an EV. 

Carbon taxes also end making people spend less money because they obviously have less disposable income.

You are aware that your EV was built with the use of fossil fuels right? It's not cheap to make those batteries. Nor will it be cheap to recycle them as they drop in performance every year in the life of the car.

And for the umpteenth time, I have no problems with EV's in the marketplace, I just don't want to be forced or coerced into buying one. Nor do I want my tax dollars to subsidize others who want to buy them.

If a person wants to move into a new house, it makes sense to wait until the house is actually completed.

The West can pretend to go green while they virtue signal in their EV's. The cobalt in your EV likely came from this place.

This is the cognitive paradox people create for themselves. No one is making you sell your pressure Dino Juice car. 

All automakers are making EVs or Hybrids their priority going forward. 

Current battery tech is not able to replace cars. But there are plenty of innovations that will certainly be ready by 2035. But people fret that they're having their cars taken from them NOW! They aren't. 

I don't know why anyone who's on the market for a new car and can charge them at home wouldn't consider an EV though. 

Think of where Battery tech was only 5 years ago? Now new EVs can charge in 20 minutes and go more than 400 kms on a charge. Think of where the tech will be in another 5 years. 

But the environmental costs of building batteries pale in comparison with the whole Crude Oil industry. For every image of a Cobalt or Lithium mine I could show you a picture of the Oil Sands or Off shore Oil rigs leaking oil into an Ocean. 

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On 12/28/2022 at 7:40 AM, ironstone said:

The cobalt in your EV likely came from this place.

You’re worried about where your cobalt comes from, but you’re not worried about where your oil has come from?  Or the other components in your car?  Do you never use batteries at all at home due to the mining issues?  How does your remote control work…. pedal power?

Edited by TreeBeard
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But... but... but... they say as they respond on their Chinese made laptop, that sits on the desk plugged in and never moves, totally forgetting about the lithium battery.

Sort of similar to how the other side sometimes forces bans on the use of plastic bags and straws rather than production and distribution, so they're dumped in the landfill in massive unused blocks.

Reminds me of what I used to accuse the wife of: she didn't want the job done right, she demanded any job done right now.

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5 hours ago, TreeBeard said:

You’re worried about where your cobalt comes from, but you’re not worried about where your oil has come from?  Or the other components in your car?  Do you never use batteries at all at home due to the mining issues?  How does your remote control work…. pedal power?

No doubt there may be cobalt in some of my devices. I wouldn't say I'm worried about where my oil comes from but I would rather have most or all of it from domestic production instead of places like Saudi Arabia.

I use batteries all the time. I have one in my ICE vehicle. It starts my car and I can go about twice as far as the longest range EV at this time. When...or IF they develop an affordable EV with long range and a recharging time measured in minutes(5 mins or less)I just may buy one. I won't seek to ban the sale of EV's as I believe in the freedom to choose. I don't want anyone to ban my ICE vehicle either.

I can't and wouldn't virtue signal about my lifestyle and carbon footprint, whatever it might be. Like many others, I have serious concerns about the mad rush to wind and solar with the benefits to the planet being questionable.

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4 minutes ago, ironstone said:

No doubt there may be cobalt in some of my devices. I wouldn't say I'm worried about where my oil comes from but I would rather have most or all of it from domestic production instead of places like Saudi Arabia.

I use batteries all the time. I have one in my ICE vehicle. It starts my car and I can go about twice as far as the longest range EV at this time. When...or IF they develop an affordable EV with long range and a recharging time measured in minutes(5 mins or less)I just may buy one. I won't seek to ban the sale of EV's as I believe in the freedom to choose. I don't want anyone to ban my ICE vehicle either.

I can't and wouldn't virtue signal about my lifestyle and carbon footprint, whatever it might be. Like many others, I have serious concerns about the mad rush to wind and solar with the benefits to the planet being questionable.

No one is banning ICE vehicles.  You’ll still be able to drive them for decades to come, just like you can still ride a horse, if you so choose.  
 

You may not find many hitching posts for your horse though….  

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25 minutes ago, TreeBeard said:

No one is banning ICE vehicles.  You’ll still be able to drive them for decades to come, just like you can still ride a horse, if you so choose.  
 

You may not find many hitching posts for your horse though….  

Different perspectives. Governments are mandating that car companies HAVE TO sell more EV's. Isn't that effectively working towards a ban on the ICE for passenger vehicles? If the radical Greta Thunberg's of the world get their way, you ain't seen nothin' yet. 

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13 minutes ago, ironstone said:

Different perspectives. Governments are mandating that car companies HAVE TO sell more EV's. Isn't that effectively working towards a ban on the ICE for passenger vehicles? If the radical Greta Thunberg's of the world get their way, you ain't seen nothin' yet. 
   

You could say the same thing when they stopped making infrastructure for horse and buggy.  The world moves on and leaves the dinosaurs behind.

But, no one says you can’t buy a used ICE car and drive it.  That’s just hyperbole on your part.  Hyperbole and fake concern about battery production seems to be your arguments against EVs.   

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1 minute ago, TreeBeard said:

You could say the same thing when they stopped making infrastructure for horse and buggy.  The world moves on and leaves the dinosaurs behind.

But, no one says you can’t buy a used ICE car and drive it.  That’s just hyperbole on your part.  Hyperbole and fake concern about battery production seems to be your arguments against EVs.   

I don't think it's hyperbole at all. Just honest to goodness questions. And if you have been paying attention to what I write here, I am not suggesting that EV's not be allowed into the market. I merely ask questions about range, charging times,where the energy will come from. What about the battery recycling process since the manufacturers are using different batteries with proprietary technology and perhaps different components? 

There is no harm in raising concerns and asking questions about something like this. I think EV's are here to stay this time, for better or worse.

father-of-gm-ev1-discusses-future-of-electric-vehicles-says-he-won-t-retire-until.jpg

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6 hours ago, TreeBeard said:

No one is banning ICE vehicles.  You’ll still be able to drive them for decades to come, just like you can still ride a horse, if you so choose.  
 

You may not find many hitching posts for your horse though….  

Incorrect: https://www.reuters.com/world/americas/canada-ban-sale-new-fuel-powered-cars-light-trucks-2035-2021-06-29/

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