Should we all be required to swear an oath to the Queen of Canada before voting?

[Dougie93]

again, if you don't understand the arc of the Enlightenment age of reason and the modern liberal state

the Treaty of Westphalia, the Glorious Revolution, the Westminster Parliament, the Bill of Rights

and how that is interwoven with the hereditary dynasty of Hanover, Saxe Coburg Gotha, now Windsor

then I don't see why you would advocate for swearing fealty to Elizabeth Windsor as a requirement

because you don't seem to even know who the Queen is and what she stands for

[Dougie93]

3 hours ago, Moonlight Graham said:

The point is that every nation has its myths.  The US, Britain, Quebec, China...you just have to find the one that works and unites everyone.  Every national narrative contains truths, and leaves out others.  It's basically bullshit that derives meaning from a world devoid of any universal "truth"

If Canada's national narrative becomes "Canada is an irredeemable country built on stolen land and murder" then that's not going to be a united or successful country.  If it's something like "We have made mistakes, we are filled with many diverse groups and bicker as all families do, but at the end of the day we're one family in a great country" then that will have more success.  It's all how you frame reality.  Ideology is the same, it's filled with truth and leave out other truths, it's BS, but we all have to view the world somehow to function.

If whatever narrative you believe in, the Orangemen of whatever, gets you through the day, go for it.  I do the same, we all do, it keeps us sane and gives us something to believe in so we don't feel alone in the universe and devoid of something to love, strive for, and defend etc.  It takes a damn powerful story to convince people to fight and risk death for their country instead of grabbing their family and running for the hills.

Belief in God is the same.  Religion is total bullshit, but it gets people through the day, and helps them be kind to one another.  Cynicism comes from nihilism, when you realize everything is a lie and the world is cruel and meaningless.  Not a good way to live one's life.

Treaty of Westphalia 1648

Westminster Parliament 1688

Bill of Rights 1689

Treaty of Paris 1763

these are not myths, this is the law you either swear fealty to defend on behalf of Her Majesty, or you don't

you don't understand who William of Orange is and how he founded your system of governance ?

why are you calling for people to swear fealty to things you don't seem to even understand ?

which Queen did you think you were going to be swearing fealty to, and why ?

is this the person you were going to swear fealty to and demand others do as well ?

Edited June 19, 2021 by Dougie93

[Moonlight Graham]

32 minutes ago, Dougie93 said:

Treaty of Westphalia 1648

Glorious Revolution of 1688

Bill of Rights 1689

Treaty of Paris 1763

these are not myths, this is the law you either swear fealty to defend on behalf of Her Majesty, or you don't

you don't understand who William of Orange is and how he founded your system of governance ?

why are you calling for people to swear fealty to things you don't seem to even understand ?

which Queen did you think you were going to be swearing fealty to, and why ?

is this the person you were going to swear fealty to ?  Do you even know your own head of state ?

Something is a myth when it includes parts of the truth and leaves out other parts of the truth.  It's a story, a narrative.  It's a certain interpretation of reality spun to legitimate some belief and negate others.  I'm not saying all these things you're mentioning aren't true, i'm saying the facts are presented in such a way as to craft a story for yourself and others to believe in something.  There's nothing wrong with that.  And I'm sure some narratives are closer to the truth than others, but they're all coming from a certain point of view while by their very nature ignoring others.

This might be inevitable when we start moralizing events.  "Lincoln freed the slaves and saved the Union" is one narrative, and "the brave Confederates sacrificed their lives fighting for their independence as martyrs" is another.

This is why most politics is pure bullshit.  Somebody's always trying to sell something, "post-national state, multiculturalism and inclusion, God Save The Queen, Make America Great Again".  You have left and right all believing different versions of their truth about the world and it's all a complete pile of BS because there's infinite viewpoints and narratives depending on the perspective you look at things.  When you make conclusions about the world and reality by only focusing on a certain % of the facts and ignoring others (which is almost inevitable) just because some facts fit your narrative and others don't it's called BS and delusion.  So we're all delusional and ignorant sons of bitches.  So the key is make sure your narrative makes the world a better place than the other guy's.  But even "better" is totally up to your point of view.

In the end, it's just a struggle for power, group X will win and group Y will lose, and somebody always has to win and lose, it's the nature of the universe and the function of evolution itself, it's the only way we get better as a species, it's the only way any species improves, the strong survive and the weak don't.  The Brits flourished, and the indigenous didn't.  Darwinism.  The Marxists want equality for everyone, which is noble, but it's against the very laws of nature.  We can treat people better but there will always be winners and losers of some kind and thank God for that, it's the only way we get better.

[Dougie93]

1 hour ago, Moonlight Graham said:

Something is a myth when it includes parts of the truth and leaves out other parts of the truth.  It's a story, a narrative.  It's a certain interpretation of reality spun to legitimate some belief and negate others.  I'm not saying all these things you're mentioning aren't true, i'm saying the facts are presented in such a way as to craft a story for yourself and others to believe in something.  There's nothing wrong with that.  And I'm sure some narratives are closer to the truth than others, but they're all coming from a certain point of view while by their very nature ignoring others.

This might be inevitable when we start moralizing events.  "Lincoln freed the slaves and saved the Union" is one narrative, and "the brave Confederates sacrificed their lives fighting for their independence as martyrs" is another.

This is why most politics is pure bullshit.  Somebody's always trying to sell something, "post-national state, multiculturalism and inclusion, God Save The Queen, Make America Great Again".  You have left and right all believing different versions of their truth about the world and it's all a complete pile of BS because there's infinite viewpoints and narratives depending on the perspective you look at things.  When you make conclusions about the world and reality by only focusing on a certain % of the facts and ignoring others (which is almost inevitable) just because some facts fit your narrative and others don't it's called BS and delusion.  So we're all delusional and ignorant sons of bitches.  So the key is make sure your narrative makes the world a better place than the other guy's.  But even "better" is totally up to your point of view.

In the end, it's just a struggle for power, group X will win and group Y will lose, and somebody always has to win and lose, it's the nature of the universe and the function of evolution itself, it's the only way we get better as a species, it's the only way any species improves, the strong survive and the weak don't.  The Brits flourished, and the indigenous didn't.  Darwinism.  The Marxists want equality for everyone, which is noble, but it's against the very laws of nature.  We can treat people better but there will always be winners and losers of some kind and thank God for that, it's the only way we get better.

well, when you engage in such vacuous moral relativism, there is no need for you to swear any oaths at all

like I say, I can't help you

I would not even want you on the Queen's team to be honest, you are a burden not a boon

one only swears an oath to something one is prepared to defend with their life

clearly you don't believe in anything, you don't stand for anything, so your oath would be hollow in the end

your ideology or lack thereof is against everything the Queen embodies

so don't bother to swear an oath to the Queen, nor to any sovereign really

Edited June 19, 2021 by Dougie93

[Yzermandius19]

1 hour ago, Moonlight Graham said:

Something is a myth when it includes parts of the truth and leaves out other parts of the truth.  It's a story, a narrative.  It's a certain interpretation of reality spun to legitimate some belief and negate others.  I'm not saying all these things you're mentioning aren't true, i'm saying the facts are presented in such a way as to craft a story for yourself and others to believe in something.  There's nothing wrong with that.  And I'm sure some narratives are closer to the truth than others, but they're all coming from a certain point of view while by their very nature ignoring others.

This might be inevitable when we start moralizing events.  "Lincoln freed the slaves and saved the Union" is one narrative, and "the brave Confederates sacrificed their lives fighting for their independence as martyrs" is another.

This is why most politics is pure bullshit.  Somebody's always trying to sell something, "post-national state, multiculturalism and inclusion, God Save The Queen, Make America Great Again".  You have left and right all believing different versions of their truth about the world and it's all a complete pile of BS because there's infinite viewpoints and narratives depending on the perspective you look at things.  When you make conclusions about the world and reality by only focusing on a certain % of the facts and ignoring others (which is almost inevitable) just because some facts fit your narrative and others don't it's called BS and delusion.  So we're all delusional and ignorant sons of bitches.  So the key is make sure your narrative makes the world a better place than the other guy's.  But even "better" is totally up to your point of view.

In the end, it's just a struggle for power, group X will win and group Y will lose, and somebody always has to win and lose, it's the nature of the universe and the function of evolution itself, it's the only way we get better as a species, it's the only way any species improves, the strong survive and the weak don't.  The Brits flourished, and the indigenous didn't.  Darwinism.  The Marxists want equality for everyone, which is noble, but it's against the very laws of nature.  We can treat people better but there will always be winners and losers of some kind and thank God for that, it's the only way we get better.

one group need not lose for another to win

win-win scenarios are real

reciprocity is a helluva drug

not everything is a zero-sum game

those that leverage this reality prosper

those that don't leverage this reality languish

this is not a coincidence

Edited June 19, 2021 by Yzermandius19

[WestCanMan]

I wouldn't even swear an oath to Canada in 2021. 

Luckily when you sign up to join the Canadian forces that oath to serve/protect eventually expires.

[Dougie93]

32 minutes ago, WestCanMan said:

I wouldn't even swear an oath to Canada in 2021. 

Luckily when you sign up to join the Canadian forces that oath to serve/protect eventually expires.

the Canadian Forces oath doesn't bind you to have fealty to Canada

Canada is just Confederation, you're not required by the terms to have any particular loyalty to that agreement

it's like, you can be a Quebec Sovereignist and still be a Vandoo

because the Vandoos are mercenaries for the Queen,  not citizen soldiers of the Republic of Canada

[Dougie93]

I don't consider my oath to have expired

I just never swore an oath to be a citizen soldier for the People's Republic of Canada

The Royal Canadian Regiment

Royal is the operating word

the badge is VRI : Victoria Queen & Empress

when I say Pro Patria,  that is to the Commander-in-Chief at Buckingham Palace, not the Canadians in Ottawa

Edited June 19, 2021 by Dougie93

[Dougie93]

furthermore, the oath to the Commander-in-Chief is not a symbolic gesture, it's not ceremonial

it's a legally binding oath, to violate that oath is treason

it's an oath to fight for the men to the left & right of me, life & death, mass murder

so to fail to uphold that oath is cowardice which would leave my brothers in the breach

so you should know what you are swearing fealty to exactly, because you will have to defend that with your life

[Dougie93]

again, when you swear an oath to Queen Elizabeth II of the House of Windsor, that is very specific

what you are swearing an oath to,  is an heredity dynasty which defends & upholds the Enlightenment

William of Orange and the Glorious Revolution of 1688

the Westminster Parliament and associated Supremacy

the English Bill of Rights & Common Law

the Treaty of Paris 1763 which made Canada British

that is the founding of your nation, Canada is merely an agreement to defend that from the Americans most of all

[Moonlight Graham]

14 hours ago, Dougie93 said:

well, when you engage in such vacuous moral relativism, there is no need for you to swear any oaths at all

like I say, I can't help you

I would not even want you on the Queen's team to be honest, you are a burden not a boon

one only swears an oath to something one is prepared to defend with their life

clearly you don't believe in anything, you don't stand for anything, so your oath would be hollow in the end

your ideology or lack thereof is against everything the Queen embodies

so don't bother to swear an oath to the Queen, nor to any sovereign really

I said nihilism is reality, I didn't say it was wrong to believe in our own narratives, or to moralize  I never said I didn't believe in anything, otherwise I wouldn't have created this thread.  We all need to believe in something, so choose wisely.  For instance, I believe liberal democracy is better than Nazism.  If I believed they were both equally valid i'd be a nihilist and moral relativist, and believe in nothing.  If everything is true then everything is permitted.  Believing in nothing leads to cynicism and insanity, and it's bad.  The goal in life is to find meaning in something and pursue it.  As Jordan Peterson says, this is the antidote to chaos (nihilsim).

If i'm willing to die for my country clearly I believe in something.  If there's people in this country enjoying all its benefits and protections with no loyalty to defend it, or even actively working to destroy it, that's not in my interests or Canada's interests.  Those people are snakes in the grass, a cancer to this great nation, and they should be exposed.  You're either in or you're out.  No fence sitters allowed.  So choose your loyalty and choose it wisely.

No aiding and abetting the enemy, no traitors.  There's a fine line between free speech and sedition.

Imagine someone flying a foreign flag on their property, which, sure, is allowed under free speech, thumbing their nose at a nation where its men and women risk their lives every day to protect your life, police, military or whatever.  You enjoy their protection without any gratitude or allegiance and want the nation they belong to to burn.  Talk about entitled.  Canadians fund the military but you spit on them, want their nation to burn.

[Moonlight Graham]

5 hours ago, Dougie93 said:

again, when you swear an oath to Queen Elizabeth II of the House of Windsor, that is very specific

 

You swore an oath to THE QUEEN OF CANADA.  It's a legal contract.  Read the contract before you verbally sign it.  Or get legal advice if you don't understand it.

"I ......... (full name), do swear (or for a solemn affirmation, "solemnly affirm") that I will be faithful and bear true allegiance to Her Majesty, Queen Elizabeth the Second, Queen of Canada, Her heirs and successors according to law. So help me God."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oath_of_Allegiance_(Canada)#Canadian_Armed_Forces_members

The Queen demands you protect her realm from enemies foreign and domestic.  Honour your f***king oath!  If you're trying to burn down the Queen of Canada's nation and institutions, that means I have no choice but to protect her realm against the likes of you.  And protect the Queen's realm from the rats in Parliament who take crooked money, sometimes from foreign agents, in order to further their own careers, increase their own power, and protect their jobs rather than doing what's best for the country, which is the Queen's realm.  RATS!

 

In times of turmoil
In times like these
Beliefs contagious
Spreading disease

This wretched mischief is now coursing through your souls
Never to let go
Never to let go

Them rats!

Into your sanctum
You let them in
Now all your loved ones
And all your kin

Will suffer punishments beneath the wrath of God
Never to forgive
Never to forgive

Them rats!
Rats!
Rats!
Rats!

This devastation left your cities to be burnt
Never to return
Never to return

Them filthy rodents are still coming for your souls
Never to let go
Never to let go

Them rats!
Rats!
Rats!
Rats!

They're still coming after you
And there's nothing you can do
They're still coming after you
And there's nothing you can do

Rats!...

[Dougie93]

sorry, but you're a babbling lunatic who doesn't know what he's talking about

typical Canadian, totally divorced from his own history, making up Post National State rules that are meaningless

[Dougie93]

this is how we get to Sir John A being torn down by the government itself

this is how we get to a Woke mob being able to take Canada overnight

Canadians know nothing about their own history, constitution, law, they don't have a clue

they are Anti-British, which means they are anti themselves

and they are Anti-American, which means they have no history at all

then you get these babbling lunatics going around calling other people "traitors" just for being Canadian

[Moonlight Graham]

28 minutes ago, Dougie93 said:

sorry, but you're a babbling lunatic who doesn't know what he's talking about

typical Canadian, totally divorced from his own history, making up Post National State rules that are meaningless

All of Canada's laws are given royal assent by the Queen, through her rep the GG.  All Canada's laws are the Queen's laws, all of Canada's institutions are the Queen's institutions.  Everything that is the Crown in Canada is the Queen's.  Crown land etc.  You swear allegiance to her, you swear allegiance to the Crown, the Crown's land, borders, institutions etc.

You're making up your own history so it matches your pre-conceived narrative.  The Queen of the UK has no title in this country, and no legal authority.  Canada is legally not in any way whatsoever "British".  We kicked the British Parliament out for good in 1982. THE QUEEN SIGNED THAT.   If you want to be a Brit, go move to the UK.  Like all these entitled a-hole uneducated Brits who hop the pond over to Canada and still think it's a UK colony and stick a union jack on their front lawn thinking they're going to civilize us plebs to the Empire's ways.  LOL.

How delusional are you to swear an allegiance to the Queen but think you can undermine all of her laws, institutions, etc and want her country to burn to the ground?  "I'm loyal to you but I hate your country and i'm going to destroy it for you, without getting any orders from you to do so".  LOL you're the babbling lunatic.

There's your Queen, signing the Constitution, 1982:

Edited June 19, 2021 by Moonlight Graham

[Dougie93]

whatever, you're a nobody screeching nonsense on the internet, knock yourself out, I guess /shrugs

[Moonlight Graham]

1 minute ago, Dougie93 said:

whatever, you're a nobody screeching nonsense on the internet, knock yourself out, I guess /shrugs

So are you.  As a soldier you said you're supposed to be apolitical I thought, so bend the knee and follow the Queen's orders.

That's not what you're doing.  You got discharged and now are preaching sedition and disobeying the Queen's will in the name of the Queen, which is hypocritical lunacy.  You have cognitive dissonance, and are making up all sorts of BS to justify it that wouldn't fly for 2 seconds in a court of law.

Your enemies are the rats on Parliament Hill, and the foreign and domestic agents that want the Queen's realm to burn and then take everything from her for their own benefit.  ISIS rats, CCP rats, Russian rats, etc.

Unfortunately our "compassionate" immigration system has been used as a Trojan Horse by our enemies to insert foreign agents into our universities, virus research labs, government departments, corporate board rooms, and IT infrastructure.

We need to expose the bastards, tar and feather them, and send them back to where they came from with a boot up their ass.  Yoga boy on Parliament Hill is a rat letting them in like a naive idiot trying to "save the world", and the Conservatives weren't much better under Harper because the CCP knew how to grease their palms.

[Dougie93]

getting back to the OP tho, this does illustrate why you should not swear fealty to "Canada"

because that Confederation is a bunch of people who have no history, no culture, no idea who they are nor why they are here

thankfully, it's not a republic, so these people do not rule, and you don't owe them your allegiance

you're basically left with this choice

you either have fealty to the Crown, which is Westminster Parliamentary Supremacy & the rule of the common law

or you are an American by default, just go with the Declaration of Independence

but this netherworld between, the Post National State of a people without a history, you shouldn't swear fealty to that

they don't know who they are, they don't stand for anything per se, and you shouldn't defend that with your life

if you're not prepared to defend the oath with your life, it's not an oath worth swearing

[Moonlight Graham]

Trojan horse.  How do you stop a virus?  You create a firewall with some good virus detection and delete the viruses when you find them or contain them inside a "virus vault".  How is Canada's firewall?  Our virus detection?

[Dougie93]

4 minutes ago, Moonlight Graham said:

We need to expose the bastards, tar and feather them, and send them back to where they came from with a boot up their ass.

there is no "we"

I have no association with you

Canada is not a republic, you're not an American

so it's not "we", you're not on either of my teams

[Moonlight Graham]

2 minutes ago, Dougie93 said:

getting back to the OP tho, this does illustrate why you should not swear fealty to "Canada"

In the OP I said swear to "Canada and/or Queen".  Technically you're right, we should swear to the Queen, not Canada.  So the OP should say "Queen". I'll try to correct it.

And no we owe no loyalty to Canadians or our politicians.

[Moonlight Graham]

3 minutes ago, Dougie93 said:

there is no "we"

I have no association with you

Canada is not a republic, you're not an American

so it's not "we", you're not on either of my teams

That's fine you're free to hate any Canadian individual you want.  I say "we" meaning those loyal to the Queen.

You either are or you aren't.  The people who say they are but aren't, eff them.  Rats in breach of contract.

[Dougie93]

well, I am both a Canadian citizen & an American citizen, I hold both passports

as an American, the doctrine is America first, my Canadian citizenship is an extra burden which is my problem alone

so if America & Canada go to war again, I'm bound to fight for Washington

but luckily, Canada is part of the American hegemony, and not an enemy of America

in actual fact it is America which defends the British Crown and props Canada up

so it all works out

the big advantage of being a Canadian over an American, is the monarchy

because America is a republic, you owe all those crazy jackasses your fealty by default

but in a monarchy, you only have to have fealty for the Queen

the rest of the Canadian jackasses you can ignore for the most part

[Dougie93]

it really is true, in a practical sense, America first

like any American can move me

wave the Stars & Stripes in my face and I can't let them down

but if some dipshit Canadian waves the Liberal Party of Canada flag in my face, I just laugh

[-TSS-]

When was the last time the Queen, who is supposedly the head of state of your country, visited Canada?

I mean if something ain't broken don't fix it and if this arrangement works well with the countries having a foreigner as head of state but it can't be denied it is very strange.