Democracy Falters in the US

[WestCanMan]

23 minutes ago, Argus said:

Only people dumb enough to believe Trump think the election was rigged.

Don't forget that the first people to tell us that the election was certified fraud-free was CNN, right on election night, and they were caught cheating on the 2016 election. 

If you're keeping score:

1) CNN cheated on election night 2016 in favour of the Dems

2) They spent the last 4 years saying that the 2016 election was fraudulent because Trump won, despite never having seen a shred of proof of that

3) They suddenly knew at 10:03 pm on election night that the 2020 election was fraud free, despite lots of actual evidence and eyewitness testimony that there actually was fraud this time.

Don't you find it weird that CNN cheats on elections, says there's fraud when there's no evidence, and then says that there wasn't fraud when there is evidence?

I'm guessing you don't find it weird because you approve of the 2020 election result regardless of how legitimate it was. 

[DogOnPorch]

2 minutes ago, WestCanMan said:

Don't forget that the first people to tell us that the election was certified fraud-free was CNN, right on election night, and they were caught cheating on the 2016 election. 

If you're keeping score:

1) CNN cheated on election night 2016 in favour of the Dems

2) They spent the last 4 years saying that the 2016 election was fraudulent because Trump won, despite never having seen a shred of proof of that

3) They suddenly knew at 10:03 pm on election night that the 2020 election was fraud free, despite lots of actual evidence and eyewitness testimony that there actually was fraud this time.

Don't you find it weird that CNN cheats on elections, says there's fraud when there's no evidence, and then says that there wasn't fraud when there is evidence?

I'm guessing you don't find it weird because you approve of the 2020 election result regardless of how legitimate it was. 

 

When you own the teams, the stadiums and the ticket outlets...it's all a win.

[Guest]

14 minutes ago, WestCanMan said:

Don't forget that the first people to tell us that the election was certified fraud-free was CNN, right on election night, and they were caught cheating on the 2016 election. 

If you're keeping score:

1) CNN cheated on election night 2016 in favour of the Dems

2) They spent the last 4 years saying that the 2016 election was fraudulent because Trump won, despite never having seen a shred of proof of that

3) They suddenly knew at 10:03 pm on election night that the 2020 election was fraud free, despite lots of actual evidence and eyewitness testimony that there actually was fraud this time.

Don't you find it weird that CNN cheats on elections, says there's fraud when there's no evidence, and then says that there wasn't fraud when there is evidence?

I'm guessing you don't find it weird because you approve of the 2020 election result regardless of how legitimate it was. 

What those opposing the 2020 election results should have done was gathered all the evidence they could find that there had been any election fraud, and put it before the courts.

I'm surprised they didn't think of that.  The courts are mainly either right leaning, or better, Trump appointed, so it would have been a lock had any of the evidence had any substance.

[Michael Hardner]

7 minutes ago, bcsapper said:

1. What those opposing the 2020 election results should have done was gathered all the evidence they could find that there had been any election fraud, and put it before the courts.

2. I'm surprised they didn't think of that.  The courts are mainly either right leaning, or better, Trump appointed, so it would have been a lock had any of the evidence had any substance.

1. They did that.  Don't know if it's "all" the evidence they had but here's an example from MI:
https://www.mlive.com/public-interest/2020/11/michigan-judge-says-republicans-claims-are-incorrect-and-not-credible-in-voter-fraud-lawsuit.html

2. It's not in their interest to get a conclusive ruling on the evidence, since the goal appears to be to undermine the process to break it and introduce the candidate who failed... somehow.   No system can be designed to be immune from tampering, but the idea is that leaders are trusted to NOT tamper under threat of reputation loss.  "Reputation loss" is the area we are in now, and so it's incumbent on people who believe in the "system" to advance that.

[Argus]

57 minutes ago, WestCanMan said:

Don't forget that the first people to tell us that the election was certified fraud-free was CNN, right on election night, and they were caught cheating on the 2016 election. 

This might surprise you but CNN does not decide the election.

[DogOnPorch]

Damn genie....why...won't...you...go...back...in...the...DAMN...BOTTLE???

Can't cut-out everybody's tongue...but they're gonna try, eh?

[Aristides]

33 minutes ago, Argus said:

This might surprise you but CNN does not decide the election.

They don't? Who knew?

[WestCanMan]

46 minutes ago, Argus said:

This might surprise you but CNN does not decide the election.

The truth might surprise you, if you acknowledge it. 

Hint: it's not on CNN. 

[sharkman]

5 hours ago, Aristides said:

Accusations need evidence. Multiple election officials from both parties in multiple states and 60 judges say you have none.  Even the Trump packed SCOTUS says you have no case. 

Your accusation, that I quoted, had no links of evidence, just a blanket, "Overturning elections by force is not democracy."  So I was simply answering your opinion with another one. 

Apparently Argus has links to some made up nonsense about there being no election or voter fraud.  The Trump team has evidence that no judge has seen.  They have the Italian IT manager who(in Italy) committed treason against the US under orders by his superiors.  Iran and China were also involved.  I'm not going to present any evidence or links to you because I'm not interested in 5 or 6 pages of bickering, denials and other nonsense.  BTW, yes Argus is on my ignore, after several incidents in which he was allowed to break forum rules. 

All of the US courts, just as SCOTUS did, threw the cases out of court without allowing the evidence to be presented and therefore released to the public.  Therefore when the arrests happen, it will be military courts seeing the evidence, since foreign agents and nations are involved, and the crimes are different forms of treason.

And I am not in support of armed rebellion regarding the election, any more than I was for antifa and BLM rioting, taking over city blocks, and the related crimes that were a result.

Edited January 14, 2021 by sharkman

[Michael Hardner]

Some bullshit about Italy and "evidence" coming out...

Not sure what the specifics are but here's a (hated) MSM story that torpedoes some aspects of the online story.  I haven't put any effort to double verify what USA Today said because I stupidly trust them. 

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/factcheck/2021/01/08/fact-check-italygate-claims-electoral-fraud-rome-baseless/6567335002/

[sharkman]

Yep, as soon as a new revelation comes out, its amazing how quickly a "no it didn't happen" response gets uploaded.  Like Pelosi's laptop getting stolen.  Up comes a story that the laptop was simply for doing power point like presentations.  There was nothing on it, no not anything, and anybody who questions otherwise is a flaming right wing extremist that needs to get cancelled immediately.

The shit should hit the fan in the next week, then you can all freak out about that.  It should provide this forum with plenty of posts without having to tweak people.

[Argus]

17 minutes ago, sharkman said:

Yep, as soon as a new revelation comes out, its amazing how quickly a "no it didn't happen" response gets uploaded. 

Wow, amazing. Someone says something, and someone with knowledge answers. What a remarkable world.

It's like the first allegations of fraud started with a video of an election worker taking papers out of an envelope and something throwing them in the trash.

"He's throwing out Trump ballots! Aaaarghhhh!" say the Shakys of the world.

Then an election supervisor looks at the video and says "No, those are just papers sent to voters which are being mistakenly sent back with the ballots. And you can tell because the ballots are a different shape."

It's called INFORMATION! Something the election fraud conspiratards don't seem to like much.

[Michael Hardner]

21 minutes ago, sharkman said:

1. Yep, as soon as a new revelation comes out, its amazing how quickly a "no it didn't happen" response gets uploaded. 
2. Like Pelosi's laptop getting stolen.  Up comes a story that the laptop was simply for doing power point like presentations.  There was nothing on it, no not anything, and anybody who questions otherwise is a flaming right wing extremist that needs to get cancelled immediately.
3. The shit should hit the fan in the next week, then you can all freak out about that.  It should provide this forum with plenty of posts without having to tweak people.

1. The amazing part is the fabrication of the 'revelations'.  Is the idea that something happened in Italy a 'revelation' ?  Or was it just made up ?  If it's just made up then - yes - it can shot down fairly quickly like stepping on a bug.
2. The Trump cult doesn't question - they assert made-up bullshit which needs effort to chase down and squelch.  Then they repeat the bullshit over and over.  This is why they should just not be trusted, ie. they are liars and they continue to use bullshit sources.  
3. I kept hearing the Trump cult saying something amazing was supposed to happen last week.  Unless they had inside info that the coup was going to succeed, then that too was bullshit.  

The MSM has been vindicated through four years of bullshit.  Read the Globe and Mail and the National Post if you want real information.
 

[WestCanMan]

13 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

The MSM has been vindicated through four years of bullshit.  Read the Globe and Mail and the National Post if you want real information.

Holy tinfoil hat Batman, that's literally the most fucked up thing that I have ever read on MLW and there are a lot of people here whose posts are nearly 100% disinformation.

 

Do you mean to tell me that after 4 years you still believe in 1) Dr Ford's story has credibility, 2) Brionna was killed in bed, 3) Antifa doesn't exist, 4) the riots were mostly peaceful, 5) Trump committed sedition but Waters/Pelosi/Omar/M.Obama/Kamala etc never did, 6) Rayshard was killed just for sleeping at a drive thru, 7) cops walked up on Floyd with guns drawn just because he was black and then murdered him while he wasn't resisting,8)  M Brown was a gentle giant, 9) anonymous sources are always 100% trustworthy but people who attended meetings can't be trusted to report on what was said there, 10) Bombshell evidence is coming out 156 weeks in a row on Russian collusion and yet at the end there's still zero, 11) Trump asked Zelenski for a favour and then he asked about Biden's QPQ (the transcripts clearly show that to be a straight-up lie), 12) there's no reason whatsoever to question Biden's actions in Ukraine, 13) Trump was so crazy that he should have been removed by the 25th Amendment but Biden's cognitive abilities are perfect fine, etc?

Can you name me a single item on the list above that the MSM didn't lie about, or at least allow the lies of others to be stated on their programs without offering corrections? 

Go into as much detail as you can MH, I'd love to hear which one of those stories was reported on with integrity by the MSM.

[Michael Hardner]

Just now, WestCanMan said:

1. Holy tinfoil hat Batman, that's literally the most fucked up thing that I have ever read on MLW and there are a lot of people here whose posts are nearly 100% disinformation.

2. Do you mean to tell me that after 4 years you still believe in...

3. Can you name me a single item on the list above that the MSM didn't lie about, or at least allow the lies of others to be stated on their programs without offering corrections? 

4. Go into as much detail as you can MH, I'd love to hear which one of those stories was reported on with integrity by the MSM.

1.  Thank you.  It's an honour to hear this.
2. I read about 2 things in your list.  I don't know... I don't buy the cult's propaganda.  The MSM has to issue corrections - even FOX does it.  We're dead without the MSM.
3. No - why would I listen to someone who thinks the MSM is lying propaganda ?  Are they 100% accurate ?  No way.  Do they lie ?  Sometimes they overtly do even, yes.   But you can CATCH the MSM in a lie.  You can't ever catch the Trump cult in a lie because they deal only in lies.  And if you are in the Trump cult, how exactly do you expect us to come to a consensus on truth exactly ?  You want me to go to tinfoil guy's YouTube channel and watch a 1/2 hour video ?
4. I'll go into as much detail as I want, and I did.

I even think the 2 minutes I took to post this was a waste of time.  

[sharkman]

33 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

1. The amazing part is the fabrication of the 'revelations'.  Is the idea that something happened in Italy a 'revelation' ?  Or was it just made up ?  If it's just made up then - yes - it can shot down fairly quickly like stepping on a bug.
2. The Trump cult doesn't question - they assert made-up bullshit which needs effort to chase down and squelch.  Then they repeat the bullshit over and over.  This is why they should just not be trusted, ie. they are liars and they continue to use bullshit sources.  
3. I kept hearing the Trump cult saying something amazing was supposed to happen last week.  Unless they had inside info that the coup was going to succeed, then that too was bullshit.  

The MSM has been vindicated through four years of bullshit.  Read the Globe and Mail and the National Post if you want real information.
 

Yes, but can  you see how perfectly every single thing has gone for Biden's side in the election aftermath?  Every. single.  shred of something awry is quickly proven online to be incorrect.  I've never seen this kind of perfection, and it's too perfect.  It's a full court press by the MSM, big tech, etc that just doesn't add up, because no administration is ever this perfect.  Believe whatever makes you happy.

[BubberMiley]

24 minutes ago, sharkman said:

Yes, but can  you see how perfectly every single thing has gone for Biden's side in the election aftermath?  Every. single.  shred of something awry is quickly proven online to be incorrect.  I've never seen this kind of perfection, and it's too perfect.  It's a full court press by the MSM, big tech, etc that just doesn't add up, because no administration is ever this perfect.  Believe whatever makes you happy.

You find it suspicious that it's so easy to shoot down stupid BS? 

[sharkman]

Anything can be shot down in the digital realm, surely you know this.

[WestCanMan]

40 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

3. No - why would I listen to someone who thinks the MSM is lying propaganda ?  Are they 100% accurate ?  No way.  Do they lie ?  Sometimes they overtly do even, yes.   But you can CATCH the MSM in a lie.  

See, the thing is, you catch them 'lying', yet you put up with it.

Why is that? I think that's pathetic.

Are you not aware that the things that they get away with, they will do over and over agin? 

And then you say that "we're dead without the MSM"? How so? Are you addicted to lies and disinformation?

Isn't it a sad day when Xinhua gets to point out to the world that the PM of Canada is lying and our own media doesn't report on it? Isn't our western media supposed to be better than theirs, or at least equal? 

You need to expect more MH. You're like a giant among the leftists here but you're still small among the general population. 

 

Quote

I even think the 2 minutes I took to post this was a waste of time.  

You were challenged to present any one of the MSM's narratives as being reported on with integrity. There are 13 of them, and you couldn't even defend one of them.

And that's within minutes of you posting:

Quote

The MSM has been vindicated through four years of bullshit.  Read the Globe and Mail and the National Post if you want real information.

You're the one who made a blanket statement about the integrity of the MSM MH, not me. 

You were challenged to defend your comment and you came back with "they lie, sometimes overtly" [paraphrasing].

So were you lying when you said that the MSM has been vindicated MH, or can you defend even one of their narratives?

I think that I'm giving you a lot of latitude to just defend A SINGLE ONE of their many narratives over the past few years.

There are lots more I could add too, some of them very serious, like why did they infer that "the person who killed all the people in the synagogue likely got their anti-Semitic brain defect from Trump"? The MSM knew very well that Trump was massively pro-Israel, and that his grandchildren are being raised as Jews. The idea that anti-Semites were inspired by Trump was blatantly false and they knew that 100% at the time that they were smearing the President. It was so bad that it was actually seditious ( a massive campaign of vindictive libel against the leader of a country is 100% certifiable sedition). 

How can you possibly condone lying of such a magnitude MH?

There's literally no excuse for it. It's utterly pathetic. You should honestly be ashamed of yourself dude. That's morally and ethically repugnant. 

Edited January 14, 2021 by WestCanMan

[WestCanMan]

13 minutes ago, BubberMiley said:

You find it suspicious that it's so easy to shoot down stupid BS? 

Just because you're accustomed to having stupid bullshit shot down on a regular basis doesn't mean that everyone else is. 

[Michael Hardner]

11 minutes ago, WestCanMan said:

See, the thing is, you catch them 'lying', yet you put up with it.. 

No, I explain the difference in my post.  The MSM issues retractions and the Trump cult disinformation channels do NOT.

So the moral outrage you expressed is on you, not me.

[Aristides]

1 hour ago, sharkman said:

Anything can be shot down in the digital realm, surely you know this.

Facts can only be shot down with bullshit.

[WestCanMan]

58 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

No, I explain the difference in my post.  The MSM issues retractions and the Trump cult disinformation channels do NOT.

So the moral outrage you expressed is on you, not me.

If that's the case then can you cite all the retractions that they must have made for the 13 stories that you had to admit were total bullshit?

Of course not, because that never happened. They don't retract their false narratives, ever. Their lies are everywhere and their retractions are a myth, like Antifa lol.

I'll reiterate - there's literally no excuse for the extent to which you put up with the MSM's lying MH. It's utterly pathetic. You should honestly be ashamed of yourself. It is morally and ethically repugnant. 

[WestCanMan]

32 minutes ago, Aristides said:

Facts can only be shot down with bullshit.

And the left has no shortage of that type of ammo. 

[Aristides]

The Kraken got released and it landed square on Sidney Powell and the Republican party.

They had all these "facts" but unfortunately they couldn't be presented in court because the lawyers knew counselling to commit perjury is a crime and once it was explained to the "witnesses" that committing perjury is also a crime.

Edited January 14, 2021 by Aristides