Democracy Falters in the US

[WestCanMan]

1 minute ago, DogOnPorch said:

 

Demon Haunted World is my favorite of his. Followed by Cosmos, of course.

Yes, Cosmos, of course. I was just about to say that  

Lol. I'm not a very well read person. I read one book year, tops. This year it's Trey Gowdy's book "Doesn't Hurt to Ask".

[DogOnPorch]

4 minutes ago, WestCanMan said:

Yes, Cosmos, of course. I was just about to say that  

Lol. I'm not a very well read person. I read one book year, tops. This year it's Trey Gowdy's book "Doesn't Hurt to Ask".

 

Can't go wrong with Demon Haunted World. Highly recommended.

[Aristides]

1 hour ago, WestCanMan said:

1) Aristedes, if you want to quote someone in this forum you have to click the 'quote' hotlink at the bottom of their quote so that they're are aware of it. 

2) Well isn't that a swell little story that you're piecing together there now? 

By your logic a Brit can pay his Russian friends (or they're such good friends that they work for free) for false intel, proven false I might add, and use it to try to change the course of an American Presidential election with some help from a few more lies at the FBI, weekly lying sessions from the ranking Demonrat on the House Intel Committee, and even more lies from some high-level CIA dropouts. It all seems so legitimate now. I can see why you would want to throw your hat in with all those guys. So trustworthy right? 

Sorry if this sounds a bit condescending little guy, but there's no way for me to illustrate your point and make it sound less than idiotic while staying within the bounds of truth and reason. 

Maybe he paid some, maybe he didn't. Some probably owed him favours. But you are like your hero Trump, you would take Putin's word over that of western intelligence agencies.

[BeaverFever]

7 hours ago, WestCanMan said:

So how do you know that Steele didn't pay the Russians? You claim to KNOW that, how so? Were you there when they did the deal? Do you

Like I said this is that thing you guys do where you invent something and then say “how do you know it’s not true”. 
 

7 hours ago, WestCanMan said:

No, the Trump claim is that he never colluded with Russia for election help. 

 

Its 100% certain that Trumps campaign team - including Trump Jr, Jared “I can’t get a security clearance” Kushner and Paul “I work for foreign dictators and launder Russian money” Manifort - secretly met with Russian government envoys in Trump tower to negotiate getting their hands on the hacked DNC emails that the public. It’s also 100 % certain that they denied tje meeting occurred and told various changing lies about the meeting as the story unfolded once their emails surfaced and they got caught. And then they were like “oh ya we forgot to mention that,  sorry no biggie”. It’s also 100% certain that when they were approached by said hostile foreign government that had just committed cybercrimes against a US presidential candidate they didn’t notify authorities but instead tried to make a detail for their own benefit. And they also knew in advance that the emails were going to be dumped on Wikileaks. 

[WestCanMan]

21 minutes ago, Aristides said:

Maybe he paid some, maybe he didn't. Some probably owed him favours.

Maybe people here shouldn't be saying "Those Russians didn't get paid" unless they know it to be true. 

 

Quote

But you are like your hero Trump, you would take Putin's word over that of western intelligence agencies.

The fact that Clinton/Steele were paying Russians for what is now known to be disinformation for the purpose of influencing an election still sounds like collusion no matter how snottily you manage to say it Aristedes.

Kudos for weaseling the name Putin into that sentence but you have not made a salient point, you're just re-packaging the same old bullshit.

[BeaverFever]

Florida manatee found with ‘TRUMP’ carved into its skin

 

Florida wildlife officials are appealing to the public for help after a manatee was found with U.S. President Donald Trump’s last name carved into its back.

The animal was found in the Blue Hole spring on the Homosassa River in northern Florida over the weekend.

 

Photos and video show the word “TRUMP” etched into the manatee’s back in large block letters.

....

Manatees are currently classified as a threatened species in Florida. They were considered endangered until 2017.

Manatees are also commonly known as “sea cows” due to their massive bodies and docile nature.

 

https://globalnews.ca/news/7568670/manatee-donald-trump-florida/

 

Incase anyone needs any more proof of what kind of disgusting people become Trump supporters

[Guest]

1 hour ago, WestCanMan said:

You won't find a single liberal in that whole thing who won't spew the exact same disproven horsecrap that I just referred to. Once they see it on CNN or CBC it's gospel to them.

Yes, of course.  And you spew the disproven horsecrap that some guy with a beard and a collection of cable ties has told you about from his Parler account.

Such is insane bias.

[BeaverFever]

2 minutes ago, WestCanMan said:

Maybe people here shouldn't be saying "Those Russians didn't get paid" unless they know it to be true. 

That’s not how logic works. You’re the one who shouldn’t  be suggesting they did get paid when you don’t know it to be true. 

[WestCanMan]

4 minutes ago, BeaverFever said:

Like I said this is that thing you guys do where you invent something and then say “how do you know it’s not true”.  

You're the one who claimed to have knowledge that Steele never paid those Russians.

Were you lying again?

Quote

Its 100% certain that Trumps campaign team - including Trump Jr, Jared “I can’t get a security clearance” Kushner and Paul “I work for foreign dictators and launder Russian money” Manifort - secretly met with Russian government envoys in Trump tower to negotiate getting their hands on the hacked DNC emails that the public. It’s also 100 % certain that they denied tje meeting occurred and told various changing lies about the meeting as the story unfolded once their emails surfaced and they got caught. And then they were like “oh ya we forgot to mention that,  sorry no biggie”. It’s also 100% certain that when they were approached by said hostile foreign government that had just committed cybercrimes against a US presidential candidate they didn’t notify authorities but instead tried to make a detail for their own benefit. And they also knew in advance that the emails were going to be dumped on Wikileaks.

1) No one on earth knows that the emails in question were hacked, and the person who released them claimed that they were leaked. Given that Assange has a clean record for telling the truth about his sources that's still the statement of record.

2) It's not a crime to agree to come and listen when someone says that they have evidence of something. It's perfectly legal. 

3) The FBI was aware of that meeting (aka sting) and they couldn't manage to find any evidence of a crime there. 

4) The FBI has proven themselves to be a hostile political actor and are not be trusted, and even if that wasn't the case, still no crime was committed. 

Go fish kiddo.

[WestCanMan]

2 minutes ago, bcsapper said:

Yes, of course.  And you spew the disproven horsecrap that some guy with a beard and a collection of cable ties has told you about from his Parler account.

Such is insane bias.

You can't cite any lies by me sapper. You've been challenged before and you you've never risen to the occasion. 

Suck it down, princess.

[Guest]

Just now, WestCanMan said:

You can't cite any lies by me sapper. You've been challenged before and you you've never risen to the occasion. 

Suck it down, princess.

It's not a lie if you truly believe it, right?

 

[Guest]

Here's something people can believe if they want to.

Or laugh until they choke.  Either or.

President Trump and Vice President Mike Pence spoke today for the first time since a deadly riot broke out as Pence was presiding over the Senate last Wednesday, according to two administration officials.

A senior administration official told CNN they met in the Oval Office, had what was described as a good conversation and discussed the week ahead while "reflecting on the last four years of the administration's work and accomplishments."

"They reiterated that those who broke the law and stormed the Capitol last week do not represent the America first movement backed by 75 million Americans, and pledged to continue the work on behalf of the country for the remainder of their term," the senior official said.

 

 

[WestCanMan]

3 minutes ago, BeaverFever said:

That’s not how logic works. You’re the one who shouldn’t  be suggesting they did get paid when you don’t know it to be true. 

FYI, this is how logic works:

1) Hillary is known to have secretly funnelled money to a guy who "got" intel from Russians. 

2) In this world of ours, no one ever "got" anything for free. Ever. There's some form of a quid pro quo arrangement, or money changes hands, but skullduggery never comes cheap.

3) I can 100% guarantee you that the Russians in question received consideration of some sort for their invaluable disinformation, I just don't know what it was. Money is actually the least sleaziest option imaginable so Hillary can thank me for the kindness of assuming that the Russians only received cash.  

[WestCanMan]

4 minutes ago, bcsapper said:

It's not a lie if you truly believe it, right?

 

It's not a lie unless it's a lie, and believe me, if any of the alt-left weasels here could catch me on a lie I'd never live it down. I bust leftist weasels here daily. 

[BeaverFever]

5 minutes ago, WestCanMan said:

You're the one who claimed to have knowledge that Steele never paid those Russians.

Were you lying again?

No dummy. You’re such am idiot. When people make baseless claims with no evidence as you Trumptards are so fond of doing they’re considered false. If I sayTrump fucked a goat last night without any proof you’re allowed to say it’s false even though you have no specific knowledge that he didn’t fuck a goat. The burden of proof is on the person inventing the accusation. 

 

11 minutes ago, WestCanMan said:

1) No one on earth knows that the emails in question were hacked, and the person who released them claimed that they were leaked. Given that Assange has a clean record for telling the truth about his sources that's still the statement of record.

2) It's not a crime to agree to come and listen when someone says that they have evidence of something. It's perfectly legal. 

3) The FBI was aware of that meeting (aka sting) and they couldn't manage to find any evidence of a crime there. 

4) The FBI has proven themselves to be a hostile political actor and are not be trusted, and even if that wasn't the case, still no crime was committed

Your point 1 is false. Every national security official and several private sector experts testified before Congress that it was definitely Russia. And then of course you completely contradict yourself in #2 when you admit that Russia had it.   Hilary hiring Fusion GPS wasn’t a crime either but tjat didn’t stop you from getting all excited.   4 is just false. Just because the FBI and others won’t fall in line and worship the worst human ever as a false god doesn’t prove them to be hostile actors. 
 

[BeaverFever]

25 minutes ago, WestCanMan said:

FYI, this is how logic works:

1) Hillary is known to have secretly funnelled money to a guy who "got" intel from Russians. 

2) In this world of ours, no one ever "got" anything for free. Ever. There's some form of a quid pro quo arrangement, or money changes hands, but skullduggery never comes cheap.

3) I can 100% guarantee you that the Russians in question received consideration of some sort for their invaluable disinformation, I just don't know what it was. Money is actually the least sleaziest option imaginable so Hillary can thank me for the kindness of assuming that the Russians only received cash.  

First You don’t even know that he got it from any Russians. It could be from his former colleagues in British intelligence as but one example.  It could even be from contacts in the CIA  

 And people become informants all the time without being paid. Anyone who’s not a brainwashed Trumptard can think of dozens of reasons.  It could be from anti-Putim dissidents. It could be from Russian sources he cultivated during his years at British intelligence and continues to trade information with. It could be some who simply wants help from somebody that Steele has influence wirh. 

Edited January 12, 2021 by BeaverFever

[Michael Hardner]

6 minutes ago, BeaverFever said:

 Your point 1 is false. 

BF you just haven't figured out that there's no point in engaging in the Trump cult.  It's a cult of liars led by the biggest con man in human history.

The defense of their man is that everybody who disagrees is a liar, including the entire western press (save for some Hardcore Propaganda channels) that anyone who changed their mind on him was bribed by the deep state... that there's a massive global network of secret spies out to stop him from making his nation into paradise on earth.

It's just a dumb sickness and it can't sustain.  I know it's tempting to try to reason with them, though, I do it too.

[BeaverFever]

New England Patriots head coach Bill Belichick announced on Monday that he has declined to accept a Presidential Medal of Freedom from President Trump, citing last week's deadly riot at the U.S. Capitol. Mr. Trump was set to give the highest civilian honor to the 68-year-old this week, a White House official had previously told CBS News.

Belichick said in a statement obtained by CBS News that he was "flattered" to have the opportunity to receive the medal, but the storming of the Capitol, which many have accused Mr. Trump of inciting, changed his mind.

[Guest]

47 minutes ago, WestCanMan said:

It's not a lie unless it's a lie, and believe me, if any of the alt-left weasels here could catch me on a lie I'd never live it down. I bust leftist weasels here daily. 

Yes, I can see you're someone to be reckoned with. 

I'm certainly reconsidering my views on all the election fraud now that I know you bust people.

[Argus]

On 1/10/2021 at 7:07 PM, WestCanMan said:

People who are caught using violence against others, making serious & credible threats against others, or destroying/stealing property should be charged criminally. And FYI the ones who did it in Portland and Seattle are just as guilty as the ones who did it in DC.

Trump shouldn't be pardoning Capitol Hill rioters, or letting them out of prison without bail, and it wasn't acceptable when the Dems were doing it but you didn't complain, did you....

I did. Loudly and frequently.

And yes, this is worse, in that Trump spent weeks winding them up before pointing at Capitol Hill and telling them fight harder to defend America and freedom.

[WestCanMan]

1 hour ago, BeaverFever said:

am idiot. 

100%! You finally got one right!

Quote

When people make baseless claims with no evidence as you Trumptards are so fond of doing they’re considered false. If I sayTrump fucked a goat last night without any proof you’re allowed to say it’s false even though you have no specific knowledge that he didn’t fuck a goat. The burden of proof is on the person inventing the accusation. 

This isn't a baseless claim at all, you didn't have to reveal your passion for goat-fucking just to be wrong again.

What I said is something that stands as an uncontested fact.

"Hillary Clinton and the DNC tried to secretly funnel money to Christopher Steele through the law firm Perkins Coie and Fusion GPS. They initially denied it, but they got caught. 

Even your beloved CNN doesn't deny it. https://www.cnn.com/2017/10/24/politics/fusion-gps-clinton-campaign/index.html

Quote

A source familiar with the matter told CNN on Tuesday that the law firm Perkins Coie, as part of its representation of the Clinton campaign and the DNC, retained the intelligence firm Fusion GPS and entered “into an engagement for research services that began in April 2016 and concluded before the election in early November.”

A letter to Fusion GPS, which was written by Perkins Coie general counsel Matthew Gehringer, notes that it is revealing its role in hiring Fusion to aid the firm in its fight not to be forced to reveal its confidential list of clients.

Fusion GPS is fighting a legal battle to prevent Fusion’s bank from providing the House intelligence committee records that the panel subpoenaed. The letter was filed with the court on Tuesday.

Trump told reporters on Wednesday that the campaign and DNC’s involvement with the dossier was a “very sad commentary on politics in this country.”

“Hillary Clinton always denied it. The Democrats always denied it, and now, only because it is going to come out in a court case, they said yes they did it. They admitted it and they are embarrassed by it. I think it is a disgrace,” he said.

Clinton and the DNC gave money to law firm, Perkind Coie, to pass on to Fusion GPS, who gave it to a spy (C Steele) for the purpose of obtaining disinformation from Russian sources. The false info was then passed off to the FBI, who subsequently used it (lied about it) to obtain warrants to spy on Trump's associates during the campaign, to influence the election, period.

Every single shred of that is absolutely true, like everything else I say.  If you ever caught me on a lie you'd bark like a mink. 

I assumed that Steele paid the Russians earlier, but if they didn't it's actually worse because nothing's free. If they didn't give the Russians mere dollars then they did a quid pro quo with Russians which is even worse.

Would you rather believe that Hillary's guy did a quid pro quo or that she paid them?

You can believe whichever one you want in your own heart of hearts, it's your call, but your declaration that Hillary's people never paid the Russians was still a lie, period. Of course they got something. Ether that or the dirty Ruskies wanted Hillary to be POTUS and that's even worse than the qpq theory. 

Quote

Your point 1 is false. Every national security official and several private sector experts testified before Congress that it was definitely Russia.

The only person who would have actually known were the people at Crowdstrike, and their owner testified that they didn't actually know for certain. Therefor, not one single person on earth did aside from the people who lifted the info and possibly Assange.

It's entirely possible that a person who had access to the files that were stolen did his best to make it look like a hack to cover his tracks. 

What we know for certain is that Hillary's unprotected servers belched out classified information shortly after Bernie Sanders was jobbed out of the nomination. IE, there were people with access to the DNC servers whose candidate had just been jobbed by the arch-skank and were likely very motivated to act out against her.

Quote

And then of course you completely contradict yourself in #2 when you admit that Russia had it.  

You're wrong again. I didn't contradict myself at all.

People said that they had info on Hillary. That doesn't mean that they did. Grab a brain ffs.

And there are a lot of people who believe that meeting was a sting operation to try to get Trump's people to ask questions that gave their bogus operation some credibility.

In Mueller's own words, they had evidence that Russians offered the Trump campaign info but no info that they accepted the offer. 

Quote

Hilary hiring Fusion GPS wasn’t a crime either but tjat didn’t stop you from getting all excited.  

Hillary funnelling money, influence or favours through to Russians apparently is, based on the bajillion-dollar investigation we saw protracted over 3 years to find out of there was any Russian collusion.

What she did was the textbook definition of what Trump was accused of.

Quote

4 is just false. Just because the FBI and others won’t fall in line and worship the worst human ever as a false god doesn’t prove them to be hostile actors. 

The fact that they were caught, and that they admitted to lying to the FISA court to get Trump actually proves beyond a shadow of doubt that the FBI were hostile actors. The texts between Strzok and Page also proved that they were hostile actors.

Grab a brain ffs.

Every single word that I said here was true, everything that you said was a combination of stupidity, lies, and disinformation.

You just got owned boyo 

 

[WestCanMan]

2 hours ago, BeaverFever said:

First You don’t even know that he got it from any Russians. It could be from his former colleagues in British intelligence as but one example.  It could even be from contacts in the CIA  

 And people become informants all the time without being paid. Anyone who’s not a brainwashed Trumptard can think of dozens of reasons.  It could be from anti-Putim dissidents. It could be from Russian sources he cultivated during his years at British intelligence and continues to trade information with. It could be some who simply wants help from somebody that Steele has influence wirh. 

https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2020-10-01/steele-dossier-was-the-fbi-a-victim-of-russian-disinformation

Quote

On Friday, the Justice Department declassified documents that show the FBI investigated the primary source of the dossier for being a Russian agent.

Beave you just suck at this. 

I get that you don't have the whole story because you watch CNN, but at least do some homework before you run your mouth. 

It's been out that Steele got a lot of info from Russians for years now. Get your head out of your ass.

[Petros]

4 hours ago, BeaverFever said:

Florida manatee found with ‘TRUMP’ carved into its skin

 

Florida wildlife officials are appealing to the public for help after a manatee was found with U.S. President Donald Trump’s last name carved into its back.

The animal was found in the Blue Hole spring on the Homosassa River in northern Florida over the weekend.

 

Photos and video show the word “TRUMP” etched into the manatee’s back in large block letters.

....

Manatees are currently classified as a threatened species in Florida. They were considered endangered until 2017.

Manatees are also commonly known as “sea cows” due to their massive bodies and docile nature.

 

https://globalnews.ca/news/7568670/manatee-donald-trump-florida/

 

Incase anyone needs any more proof of what kind of disgusting people become Trump supporters

Can any normal human being claim that at some point in the last 5 years, they have not had the urge to punch out an annoying Trump supporter?

[Petros]

3 hours ago, BeaverFever said:

New England Patriots head coach Bill Belichick announced on Monday that he has declined to accept a Presidential Medal of Freedom from President Trump, citing last week's deadly riot at the U.S. Capitol. Mr. Trump was set to give the highest civilian honor to the 68-year-old this week, a White House official had previously told CBS News.

Belichick said in a statement obtained by CBS News that he was "flattered" to have the opportunity to receive the medal, but the storming of the Capitol, which many have accused Mr. Trump of inciting, changed his mind.

Bill Belichick is a real American. First he stands up to Turkish aggression towards Armenia. Now he declines a medal from a madman. Belichick is a hero.

[Nefarious Banana]

21 minutes ago, Petros said:

Can any normal human being claim that at some point in the last 5 years, they have not had the urge to punch out an annoying Trump supporter?

Don't let anything hold you back Walt Mitty.