Bill Morneau to resign as finance minister, MP following breakdown in relations with Trudeau over COVID policy, WE scandal

[Queenmandy85]

15 hours ago, ironstone said:

Massive deficits and debt in this country are almost entirely about decades of reckless and chronic overspending. Yes, both of Canada's two mainstream parties are guilty of this behavior. Justin Trudeau deserves consideration as perhaps the most reckless/foolish spendthift in our history.

How would you fund healthcare, Defence, education, help for small business, agriculture, transition from fossil fuels etc. without taxes? How would you have funded the millions of people displaced by Covid-19?

[betsy]

19 minutes ago, Queenmandy85 said:

How would you fund healthcare, Defence, education, help for small business, agriculture, transition from fossil fuels etc. without taxes? How would you have funded the millions of people displaced by Covid-19?

They should've funded  with more thought and planning than how they did it!

Look at CERB as an example.  Why would people want to work if they're paid to stay at home?  Not that I'm saying there should be no CERB - but, the problems that could arise from it should  have been anticipated.  If I'm not mistaken, this revamped CERB was how the Conservatives had suggested it way back.

Look at the WE project.  Kaput.  Students lost out.  What happened?

 

Edited August 21, 2020 by betsy

[OftenWrong]

16 hours ago, Cannucklehead said:

Honestly it doesn't make much sense.  When parliament resumes on the 23rd they'll restart the investigations and expose whatever was redacted. 

It makes sense to give yourself lots of time to prepare your counterargument.

[OftenWrong]

35 minutes ago, Queenmandy85 said:

Manning was Socialist Credit. They boasted about free enterprise but as soon as they got into power, they showed their true colours as Bolsheviks. Remember what they did to BC Electric. If you wanted to know where the next highway was going, just look at the land being bought up by the Bennett and Gaglardi boys.Socialist Credit were nothing but a gang of theiving communists. 

Interesting observations but we are off topic. I did not put the (Manning) in brackets in my original post. You inserted it.

I get your point. I meant I did not see Stephen Harper as a Marxist, but I only know him as the PM. Didn't love the guy, far from it. As indicated. Nonetheless we did alright under his legacy.

Meanwhile our PM's legacy is a man full of controversy. The most virtue-signalling of all PM's became the Blackface PM. Much like a reformed alcoholic, I suppose.

But then, I've heard they often are secretly still alcoholics, anyway.

 

 

[WestCanMan]

4 hours ago, betsy said:

They should've funded  with more thought and planning than how they did it!

Look at CERB as an example.  Why would people want to work if they're paid to stay at home?  Not that I'm saying there should be no CERB - but, the problems that could arise from it should  have been anticipated.  If I'm not mistaken, this revamped CERB was how the Conservatives had suggested it way back.

Look at the WE project.  Kaput.  Students lost out.  What happened?

If we would have blocked travellers from China in January, and our Gov't hadn't told people not to wear masks, then we probably wouldn't be in this whole mess with CERB and permanent business closures in the first place. 

Trudeau's massive failure vs covid didn't just kill 9,000 people, it killed our economy. 

If this was needed to get us to the point of the We scandal, maybe it was worth it though. 

Edited August 21, 2020 by WestCanMan

[ironstone]

4 hours ago, Queenmandy85 said:

How would you fund healthcare, Defence, education, help for small business, agriculture, transition from fossil fuels etc. without taxes? How would you have funded the millions of people displaced by Covid-19?

I'm not against taxes, I'm against excessive levels of taxation. Spending shouldn't outstrip revenue year after year after year. We keep piling up more debt and of course we have to keep paying ever increasing interest on that debt.And we are only paying the interest and not decreasing that debt itself. Nobody can tell me that there isn't a huge amount of wasteful spending by this current government. Too much kicking the fiscal can down the road and letting future generations pay for it.

 

[Army Guy]

7 hours ago, Queenmandy85 said:

How would you fund healthcare, Defence, education, help for small business, agriculture, transition from fossil fuels etc. without taxes? How would you have funded the millions of people displaced by Covid-19?

I wonder how this topic of taxes is going to be discussed next year, if Justin stays in power....we think taxes are high now, wait for it...and do we really think there is going to be funding for nice to have items like defense, most of the security departments, education, funding is going to have to come from some where....any ideas...

[Queenmandy85]

When the pandemic forced the economy to close down, there wasn't much time to protect the millions of people affected. While you would be pausing to assess the fine details to prevent a few cases of fraud, millions of Canadians would have nothing to live on. 

We have an excellent healthcare system but it is straining under a lack of money. 

We need to start paying real taxes.  

(It's DEFENCE with a "C")

[WestCanMan]

13 hours ago, Queenmandy85 said:

When the pandemic forced the economy to close down, there wasn't much time to protect the millions of people affected. While you would be pausing to assess the fine details to prevent a few cases of fraud, millions of Canadians would have nothing to live on. 

We have an excellent healthcare system but it is straining under a lack of money. 

We need to start paying real taxes.  

(It's DEFENCE with a "C")

The pandemic didn't force the economy to close down. Our complete lack of action against the pandemic forced the economy to close down.

[Army Guy]

16 hours ago, Queenmandy85 said:

When the pandemic forced the economy to close down, there wasn't much time to protect the millions of people affected. While you would be pausing to assess the fine details to prevent a few cases of fraud, millions of Canadians would have nothing to live on. 

Not sure who this was directed at, but OK, Had they taken the time to do a little research perhaps they could have come up with a system that would include all Canadians, not just 1/2 the country, many groups were left out, and STILL are until the latest announcement this week by Freeland. How many months have others had to wait to pay their bills....

Quote

We have an excellent healthcare system but it is straining under a lack of money. 

By no means is our Health system in excellent shape, maybe in your province but here in NB waiting times can by as long as 12 hours, getting an MRI could take over a year, lack of family doctors mean new comers face waiting on a list for a year and a half...I not saying its not good, I'm just saying its not excellent , it has a long way to go before it is good... maybe it is time for our health system to come under federal jurisdiction and funding.

Quote

We need to start paying real taxes.  

we are paying real taxes already, some of the highest on the planet, what we really need is to take a look at all these social programs and ask the tough questions do we really need all of them....my original post was what that conversation was going to look like when it comes down to paying for Justins 500 bil dollar program....that i don't see doing much for jump starting our economy, with massive green initiatives, that will only sink the rest of our fossil fuel resources...

Quote

 (It's DEFENCE with a "C")

Yes it is , thank you for pointing that out for me. 

Edited August 22, 2020 by Army Guy

[Cannucklehead]

15 minutes ago, Army Guy said:

 

https://www.google.ca/amp/s/www.theglobeandmail.com/amp/opinion/editorials/article-how-is-ottawa-going-to-pay-off-its-covid-19-debt-with-any-luck-it/

 

We can pay it off the same way we did in ww2.  It will take a very long time to recover due to the slow restart of the economy but it will happen.   Of course that does imply the need for inflation but as long as its kept at reasonable levels there really isn't an issue.  

[Argus]

On 8/20/2020 at 7:13 PM, Cannucklehead said:

Honestly it doesn't make much sense.  When parliament resumes on the 23rd they'll restart the investigations and expose whatever was redacted.  Unless Trudeau is resigning on the 23rd or they are just playing with the conservatives this is pointless. 

I suspect they plan to bring in a budget the opposition can't support in order to force an election they hope to win through massive bribery. If they get a majority all the investigations stop.

[taxme]

On 8/19/2020 at 12:52 PM, WestCanMan said:

Trudeau and AOC have the same superpower. 

They are such huge narcissists that they never feel embarrassment or shame no matter how stupid their last comment was. I'd crawl into a hole if I ever said or did anything that is considered the normal level of idiocy for those two. 

Trudeau is fresh off of his umpteenth major scandal and he's already acting like nothing ever happened and he's still Canada's prodigal son. I'm 100% certain that he is truly unable to feel shame. 

That is why I call him Teflon Don Trudeau because the commie can pretty much do whatever the commie wants too. I cannot understand as to why the so called conservative party does not walk out of  parliament in protest.  But it looks like Teflon Don beat them to it. The guy treats we the people like the shit that we really deserve. And yet there are those diehards that still love this crook and liar. Sadly, those buffoons will be voting for him again next time around. Trudeau is certainly a Soros globalist wonder boy alright. 

[taxme]

On 8/19/2020 at 1:02 PM, Queenmandy85 said:

As long as you cut taxes, you will never pay off the deficit. We owe this money and we have to pay it back.

We will never be able to pay of any deficit. We do not have a leader who is prepared to do such a thing. We have a communist leader right now that always keeps boring money from the globalist banksters by the billions every month and then pretty much just gives it away to the rest of the bloody world, and the majority of the Canadian taxpayer's do not seem to give a bloody dam about it. You say "we owe this money and we have to pay it back". We should not be owing this money at all if Canadians paid more attention to what these thieving dear comrade leaders of their's have been doing to them every day. This is what happens when people do not give a crap, and they bloody well deserve what they get. The deeper we go in debt the less our dollar will be worth. Sadly, whether it be the liberals or the liberal conservative party or the communist NDP in power all three are all for big spending.  

Even daring to suggest to vote for the PPC party will get me nowhere. I will be told that if I vote for the PPC I will be told that I will be taking a vote away from the liberal conservative party. The only thing that will happen if the conservatives take power is that we will be going a bit slower towards communism. If the PPC were to garner a few seats in Ottawa it would go a long way to holding back these comrades to account for their comrade actions. The liberals, conservatives, NDP or the greenies are all globalist puppets on a string. They all work for the globalists who have no love for we the people. The globalists pretty much hate our guts and think of us all as scum to be played with. 

[Cannucklehead]

5 hours ago, Argus said:

I suspect they plan to bring in a budget the opposition can't support in order to force an election they hope to win through massive bribery. If they get a majority all the investigations stop.

Its too risky for them.  After last time with snc they only got a minority and tomorrow a new leader for pc will be elected.   It would be disastrous for the liberals even with Freeland at the helm. 

The budget is a mess, they all know there's nothing to be done about that until next year at least, especially with schools reopening in two weeks.  

[Army Guy]

6 hours ago, Argus said:

I suspect they plan to bring in a budget the opposition can't support in order to force an election they hope to win through massive bribery. If they get a majority all the investigations stop.

I agree Justin plan will be fully centered on bribery, for Que and Ont and maybe some on the Atlantic provinces, with the west left out in the cold again, that and oil and gas are going to take another big hit, with Justins green initiative... Not sure what the cons are going to promise to counter the libs, but it is going to have to be big.

[Army Guy]

7 hours ago, Cannucklehead said:

https://www.google.ca/amp/s/www.theglobeandmail.com/amp/opinion/editorials/article-how-is-ottawa-going-to-pay-off-its-covid-19-debt-with-any-luck-it/

 

We can pay it off the same way we did in ww2.  It will take a very long time to recover due to the slow restart of the economy but it will happen.   Of course that does imply the need for inflation but as long as its kept at reasonable levels there really isn't an issue.  

Inflation, Thats going to be risky with everyone and everything hold massive debt right now.

[Cannucklehead]

7 hours ago, Army Guy said:

Inflation, Thats going to be risky with everyone and everything hold massive debt right now.

https://m.huffingtonpost.ca/amp/entry/june-retail-sales-statistics-canada_ca_5f3fe34bc5b6763e5dc28df3/

 

Things are looking up atm but it's difficult to say if it will last.  If there is another outbreak that is large enough to force closures again we are going to be in for a rough ride.  

[OftenWrong]

On 8/21/2020 at 8:25 PM, Queenmandy85 said:

We have an excellent healthcare system but it is straining under a lack of money. 

Completely false. Among the worst. The vast sums of money poured into it are not giving an effective return. You cannot spend your way out of that problem.

[cannuck]

On 8/22/2020 at 11:37 AM, Cannucklehead said:

https://www.google.ca/amp/s/www.theglobeandmail.com/amp/opinion/editorials/article-how-is-ottawa-going-to-pay-off-its-covid-19-debt-with-any-luck-it/

 

We can pay it off the same way we did in ww2.  It will take a very long time to recover due to the slow restart of the economy but it will happen.   Of course that does imply the need for inflation but as long as its kept at reasonable levels there really isn't an issue.  

Sorry, that isn't going to work.  After WWII, Canada produced a lot of manufactured goods and Bay Street was kept in its place by limitiing what banks/finance could do - mostly by convention.  Today, we add very little value and are back to raping resources to try to sustain our unsustainable lifestyle.  The world of finance has displaced the world of business, so we no longer create wealth by adding value.  Instead we redistribute wealth through Casino Capitalism into the pockets of a handfull of those who benefit from speculative gain.  The last time that got out of control, we called it "The Great Depression" and this time I have no idea what we will call it, but it will be a damned mess.   We also trade our finite resources at a rate of pennies on the dollar for manufactured goods mostly from China - goods that are built to US consumerist quality levels and will need to be replaced over and over and over.

Until we put investment money into Main Street and remove it from Bay/Wall Street, we are fooked big time.   Before that can happen, we must learn the difference between creating wealth vs. redistributing wealth.

Edited August 26, 2020 by cannuck

[Argus]

10 hours ago, cannuck said:

Sorry, that isn't going to work.  After WWII, Canada produced a lot of manufactured goods and Bay Street was kept in its place by limitiing what banks/finance could do - mostly by convention.  Today, we add very little value and are back to raping resources to try to sustain our unsustainable lifestyle.

When I was a teenager we got our first air conditioner. It was a window unit, and we couldn't afford to buy one. My parents rented one. It cost, if I recall correctly, several hundred dollars back then just to rent one for the summer. Now, decades later, you can buy one for a hundred bucks.

Yes, we produced a lot of manufactured goods. And they were damned expensive. A lot of stuff poor people have now were only for the upper middle class back then. You think poor people could have Iphones if they were made here today? Not likely.

[SpankyMcFarland]

On 8/18/2020 at 11:12 AM, Moonbox said:

This definitely worries me.  I think Freeland is a smart woman and could do a decent job as PM even, but I don't see how she's appropriate for the Finance Minister's position.   Trudeau seems to use her as his omni-tool.  He knows she's popular and puts her in visible places to put out his fires.  

How many internationally recognized, academic economists with serious cvs have we had in that job over the years? It’s a political appointment, the second most important one, involving constant negotiation with other politicians and the country at large. She has already demonstrated such skills. There’ll be lots of advisers to help her with the sums. 

Edited August 26, 2020 by SpankyMcFarland

[cannuck]

13 hours ago, Argus said:

When I was a teenager we got our first air conditioner. It was a window unit, and we couldn't afford to buy one. My parents rented one. It cost, if I recall correctly, several hundred dollars back then just to rent one for the summer. Now, decades later, you can buy one for a hundred bucks.

Yes, we produced a lot of manufactured goods. And they were damned expensive. A lot of stuff poor people have now were only for the upper middle class back then. You think poor people could have Iphones if they were made here today? Not likely.

I think you have it all backwards.  Success  in managing your economy should be measured by raising the income of "poor" people by giving them useful and productive work at a fair price to buy things we make - not raising the fortunes of China by selling pure crap to poor folk over here.  You are assuming we never could have become competitively productive given access to capital, technology and markets - and framed in the total incompetence in managing the economies of Canada and the USA, you might be right.

You are also ignoring that one player in the smartphone evolution was indeed Canadian.  Another thing:  "poor" people don't have $700 iphones and $100 contracts.

Edited August 27, 2020 by cannuck

[SpankyMcFarland]

3 hours ago, cannuck said:

I think you have it all backwards.  Success  in managing your economy should be measured by raising the income of "poor" people by giving them useful and productive work at a fair price to buy things we make - not raising the fortunes of China by selling pure crap to poor folk over here. 

Those jobs can’t come back. If China didn’t have them Vietnam at al. would, and automation is gobbling them up too. 

[cannuck]

8 hours ago, SpankyMcFarland said:

Those jobs can’t come back. If China didn’t have them Vietnam at al. would, and automation is gobbling them up too. 

The assembly work, no.  BUT: we don't build the automation that we have, we buy it offshore - just as we do the products of same.