Doug Ford and Covid 19

[Goddess]

5 hours ago, Boges said:

BTW, I enjoy the anti-vax whining about this more than I thought I would. 

Yuck it up while you can.  This is the start of the social credit system.  You really think governments aren't going to (and haven't already) figure out the massive amount of control social passports bring them?  You think they're ever going to give that up?

Wait til YOU don't behave and comply and they freeze your "social credit" account or you can't go further than 5 km from your home.   You'll wish you were still able to whine about it. Ask the Chinese.  Oh wait.  They aren't allowed to say anything other than "We love our social credit system!  It's the best ever! Govern me harder, daddy."

[dialamah]

57 minutes ago, Goddess said:

Yuck it up while you can.  This is the start of the social credit system.  You really think governments aren't going to (and haven't already) figure out the massive amount of control social passports bring them?  You think they're ever going to give that up?

Wait til YOU don't behave and comply and they freeze your "social credit" account or you can't go further than 5 km from your home.   You'll wish you were still able to whine about it. Ask the Chinese.  Oh wait.  They aren't allowed to say anything other than "We love our social credit system!  It's the best ever! Govern me harder, daddy."

Do you think both conservative and liberal governments are in in this "plan"?  Other than as a temporary measure related to public health, do you think the courts would allow this "social credit" system you're so panicked about if it were challenged?  

Remember:. China is not a democracy and comparing it's social policies to a requirement to show proof of vaccination at SOME places is pure hyperbole and fear mongering.  Comparing China's oppression to your ability to speak out (however foolishly) is ridiculous in the extreme.  

[Goddess]

4 minutes ago, dialamah said:

Do you think both conservative and liberal governments are in in this "plan"?  Other than as a temporary measure related to public health, do you think the courts would allow this "social credit" system you're so panicked about if it were challenged?  

Remember:. China is not a democracy and comparing it's social policies to a requirement to show proof of vaccination at SOME places is pure hyperbole and fear mongering.  Comparing China's oppression to your ability to speak out (however foolishly) is ridiculous in the extreme.  

Yes, I believe the courts would allow the government to do so.  Especially if the people of Canada have been propagandized to believe it is in their best interests.

You seem to think that Canadians are different from other people.  We are not.  Look at the widespread fear and panic and the people begging the government to take rights away from their fellow citizens right now.

Are you unfamiliar with history?  The Jews lost their freedoms little by little and the German people were okay with that, because the government convinced them that the Jews deserved it.  Many Canadians are calling for unvaxxed people to be sent to camps - it doesn't matter if they had covid before and have natural immunity or whether they actually have covid or not.  When the AIDS epidemic was happening, gay people were barred from employment, etc because of the fearmongering of "catching AIDS".  A lot of people didn't want to touch or be in the same room as a gay person, it didn't matter if they had the disease or not.  Same thing is going on now.  Unvaxxed people are being treated as if they are infected.  Some Canadians don't want to touch or be in the same room as an unvaxxed person, it matters not that they are not infected and it matters not that vaxxed people are running around spreading the same virus.  I was on one facebook page for evidence based (lol) facts on covid/vax and was dismayed to see the number of people who are not in any kind of high risk category, already letting unvaxxed relatives know that they are not welcome in their homes or near their families.  When they say this, they are cheered on by the others for being such a good citizen. At one time, for the greater good of the community, women were burned as witches when things weren't going right in the village - fear and panic spread like wildfire.

People full of as much fear and panic as you are, do horrible things.

Time will tell, I guess.  I wouldn't want my children and grandchildren to someday know that I was involved in demanding other citizens be stripped of their rights and sent to camps.

For someone who seems to get the basic premise of this, since you have argued (correctly) that not all Muslims should be treated as terrorists who are dangerous to society, you are unable to apply that same principle here - that it is just as unfair to treat unvaxxed people as if they ARE infected, when you yourself could be spreading covid right now.

I actually hate the term anti-vax. Because the majority of people refusing or hesitant are not anti-vax.  It's just this one experimental, untested one that we still have no idea of the long-term consequences.

[OftenWrong]

1 hour ago, Goddess said:

Yuck it up while you can.  This is the start of the social credit system.  You really think governments aren't going to (and haven't already) figure out the massive amount of control social passports bring them?  You think they're ever going to give that up?

Wait til YOU don't behave and comply and they freeze your "social credit" account or you can't go further than 5 km from your home.   You'll wish you were still able to whine about it. Ask the Chinese.  Oh wait.  They aren't allowed to say anything other than "We love our social credit system!  It's the best ever! Govern me harder, daddy."

I saw some videos of whats going on in Australia. Absolute warfare in the streets of big cities like Melbourne. People getting booted to the head by security forces, etc. Coming soon to a country near you.

Any you government ass-licks dont believe me, who cares. Go look it up.

(not you)

Edited October 1, 2021 by OftenWrong

[Goddess]

I wonder if any of the vax fanatics have ever watched any of the videos people have uploaded of their adverse reactions.  There is almost 5 and half million serious reactions, many of them life-altering, not including the deaths.

I saw a mother video her attempt (she had made several) to get help for her 17 year old daughter who has been shaking so bad for 7 months since the shot that she can no longer even keep her head up and can barely walk.  Clearly it's one of the neurological disorders that some are ending up with.  It was really heartbreaking.  They are being told there's nothing that can be done, they give her some Ativan and send her home.

The mother said that she wished she knew of the risks before she made her daughter get the shot but she felt bullied and pressured into doing it and convinced her daughter that it was worth it and she was being a good citizen to do it.  She said that she wasn't allowing her other children to get the shot now and didn't care that she was being labelled "selfish" for it.  She turned the camera again to her daughter, crying and violently shaking in the car next to her and said, "If you're a parent ask yourself who is really the selfish ones.  Is it worth it to risk your child being like this so that a 97 yr old can have a covid free last month of life?"

Or the teenage boys who will never play sports again because their hearts were damaged by inflamation?

Oh, don't tell me....let me guess......these people are all  liars, rabid anti-vaxxers who are just making shit up. Right?

Edited October 1, 2021 by Goddess

[dialamah]

47 minutes ago, OftenWrong said:

I saw some videos of whats going on in Australia. Absolute warfare in the streets of big cities like Melbourne. People getting booted to the head by security forces, etc. Coming soon to a country near you.

Any you government ass-licks dont believe me, who cares. Go look it up.

93% of Australians do not support the protestors; 88% support any measures that keep hospitalizations and deaths to a minimum.  Canada's numbers are similar.

Do you think the government should cave to a very tiny minority, allowing mob rule by violence? 

Only callous DFs think no efforts should be made by government to reduce hospitalizations and deaths. 

[Goddess]

29 minutes ago, dialamah said:

Do you think the government should cave to a very tiny minority, allowing mob rule by violence? 

Do you think some of this panic and fear might have been created by the government/media?

The top story the other day was a woman who "died of covid" according to the headline.

If you read the article, you would have found out that she was 105 years old.  

But she "died of covid."

[dialamah]

2 minutes ago, Goddess said:

Do you think some of this panic and fear might have been created by the government/media?

The top story the other day was a woman who "died of covid" according to the headline.

If you read the article, you would have found out that she was 105 years old.  

But she "died of covid."

Right.  And if she'd had the flu when she died, would you people have said she died of old age?  If she had had a heart attack, would you people insist it was old age that killed her?  If she'd been in a car accident, would you people have claimed it was old age she died from?  If she was attacked and stabbed by some miscreant, would you people believe that old age killed her?  Or, for any of these, would you people say "Well she was old so was going to die anyway?"

Do you people understand that what you are really saying is that Covid only kills young, healthy people with no other conditions that make them vulnerable?

All this denial that you people indulge in looks like you all are very, very afraid of facing facts.

[OftenWrong]

4 hours ago, dialamah said:

Only callous DFs think no efforts should be made by government to reduce hospitalizations and deaths. 

Your continual false accusations are absolutely boring, because it’s so easy to snipe people like that.

At least if you had an intelligent or funny point to make, you might get a useful reply from me. I see no need to give a rebuttal if you have that attitude.

Same goes with the other low-brows who do what you do. You are a big yawn.

Nothing personal, just letting you know.

 

[dialamah]

55 minutes ago, OftenWrong said:

Your continual false accusations are absolutely boring, because it’s so easy to snipe people like that.

At least if you had an intelligent or funny point to make, you might get a useful reply from me. I see no need to give a rebuttal if you have that attitude.

Same goes with the other low-brows who do what you do. You are a big yawn.

Nothing personal, just letting you know.

 

Following your lead is all.

 

[OftenWrong]

12 minutes ago, dialamah said:

Following your lead is all.

 

I see, you just need more training, is that it? So this is all a big joke to you?

[dialamah]

8 hours ago, OftenWrong said:

I see, you just need more training, is that it? So this is all a big joke to you?

You presented your POV, called people who disagreed with you "government ass-licks"; I presented my POV, and - following your example - called people who disagreed with me "DFs".   And somehow you felt it necessary to take me to task.   So yeah, I find that kind of amusing.

The topic itself, not so much.

[Boges]

Anti-vaxxers are losing the plot on this. We're rapidly approaching 3/4 fully vaxxed. 

The only narrative they have is that we're all brainwashed bots. 

When the truth is, that they're the ones that have been lied to. If it wasn't for their cynical stubbornness, this pandemic would be over already.

They're the people who will not take a vaccine, because we of the "long-term effects", but rush to take Invermectin from a veterinary clinic. 

[Goddess]

First image is Manitoba ICU admissions from August 29-Sept. 4 showing 50% of those in ICU are vaxxed.  50% of deaths are among vaxxed.

Second image is cases in Canada from Sept. 2020, BEFORE vaxxing began.

Third image is cases in Canada from Sept. 2021, AFTER 80% of the population is vaxxed.

 

The vaccine is therapeutic at best.  At worst, we don't yet know long-term.

If the predictions of many doctors and scientists come true and we see major surges in cancers, heart disease, neurological disorders in the next 3-5 years  (not surprising, since those are also the major adverse reactions to the vax) it will TRULY be the vaxxed who are plugging up the ICUs.  And I hope that they are met with more kindness, compassion and empathy than they are showing to others now.

Edited October 4, 2021 by Goddess

[Boges]

47 minutes ago, Goddess said:

If the predictions of many doctors and scientists come true and we see major surges in cancers, heart disease, neurological disorders in the next 3-5 years  (not surprising, since those are also the major adverse reactions to the vax) it will TRULY be the vaxxed who are plugging up the ICUs.  And I hope that they are met with more kindness, compassion and empathy than they are showing to others now.

Who are the many doctors you're referring to? And what evidence do they have to predict such catastrophe? 

Oh and Ontario's Hospitalization data tell a much different story. 

https://covid-19.ontario.ca/data/hospitalizations

 

Edited October 4, 2021 by Boges

[Shady]

4 hours ago, Boges said:

Anti-vaxxers are losing the plot on this. We're rapidly approaching 3/4 fully vaxxed. 

The only narrative they have is that we're all brainwashed bots. 

When the truth is, that they're the ones that have been lied to. If it wasn't for their cynical stubbornness, this pandemic would be over already.

They're the people who will not take a vaccine, because we of the "long-term effects", but rush to take Invermectin from a veterinary clinic. 

That’s completely untrue that the pandemic would be over by now.  With children unable to get vaccinated and breakthrough cases among fully vaccinated, coupled with people that are unable to get vaccinated, we might be closer to an endemic state, but not quite yet.

[Boges]

14 minutes ago, Shady said:

That’s completely untrue that the pandemic would be over by now.  With children unable to get vaccinated and breakthrough cases among fully vaccinated, coupled with people that are unable to get vaccinated, we might be closer to an endemic state, but not quite yet.

Who are unable to get vaccinated? 

Breakthrough cases amongst vaxxed usually result in mild, or no symptoms. Often the people only know they have it because of screening measures. 

Children also usually get mild or symptom free infections. 

Where people are being Hospitalized it's usually unvaxxed or vaxxed that are older and imuno-compromised. 

[OftenWrong]

15 minutes ago, Shady said:

That’s completely untrue that the pandemic would be over by now.  With children unable to get vaccinated and breakthrough cases among fully vaccinated, coupled with people that are unable to get vaccinated, we might be closer to an endemic state, but not quite yet.

International travel is also still an issue, bringing in new cases from countries where the health care and vaccinations are below our standards. Weirdly it now gets a pass.

[Shady]

3 minutes ago, Boges said:

Who are unable to get vaccinated? 

Breakthrough cases amongst vaxxed usually result in mild, or no symptoms. Often the people only know they have it because of screening measures. 

Children also usually get mild or symptom free infections. 

Where people are being Hospitalized it's usually unvaxxed or vaxxed that are older and imuno-compromised. 

People who are sick with certain types of illnesses, also people with autoimmune issues.  I also believe pregnant women haven’t been given the go ahead yet.  There are various very legitimate medical exemptions from getting vaccinated.  You may want to look into it.

[OftenWrong]

6 minutes ago, Shady said:

People who are sick with certain types of illnesses, also people with autoimmune issues.  I also believe pregnant women haven’t been given the go ahead yet.  There are various very legitimate medical exemptions from getting vaccinated.  You may want to look into it.

Yep, and people who are allergic to the ingredients, as well as those who had a very bad reaction the first shot but did not die. Probably a larger number of people compared to those who died, but of course its not being reported how many.

[dialamah]

22 minutes ago, Shady said:

People who are sick with certain types of illnesses, also people with autoimmune issues.  I also believe pregnant women haven’t been given the go ahead yet.  There are various very legitimate medical exemptions from getting vaccinated.  You may want to look into it.

In BC, pregnant women are encouraged to get the vax because Covid is particularly risky for them and the baby.

[Boges]

16 minutes ago, OftenWrong said:

Yep, and people who are allergic to the ingredients, as well as those who had a very bad reaction the first shot but did not die. Probably a larger number of people compared to those who died, but of course its not being reported how many.

That's the two scenarios. You're guessing how many people it is.

If anything is private, it's how many people are able to get an exemption. 

People with autoimmune issues actually need the vaccine more than most. 

[Boges]

27 minutes ago, Shady said:

People who are sick with certain types of illnesses, also people with autoimmune issues.  I also believe pregnant women haven’t been given the go ahead yet.  There are various very legitimate medical exemptions from getting vaccinated.  You may want to look into it.

Getting pregnant and getting COVID has proven to be very bad. Good chance of losing the baby. 

The only two legitimate medical exemptions, In Ontario anyway, are mentioned above. 

 

[Goddess]

2 hours ago, Boges said:

Who are the many doctors you're referring to? And what evidence do they have to predict such catastrophe? 

 

Obviously, your choice was to not do any research before injecting yourself with an experimental vaccine.

I've already mentioned one, but you paid no attention, so I doubt you'll give it any thought now.  But in the interest of fair debate, I'll refresh your memory: The well-respected Dr/scientist that the Canadian government hired to check out the vaccine, who had to use the Freedom of Information Act to get the animal testing results from Pfizer because they wouldn't share them openly.  What he saw appalled him and he raised the alarm, at which point our government decided that he was no longer well-respected - now he was a crackpot.  It's the same animal testing that a lot of scientists are alarmed about.

Getting back to my post , which you again ignored,

Why do you think there are so many vaxxed people dying of covid?  Why do you think our case numbers have skyrocketed AFTER 80% of Canadians are vaccinated?

None of that alarms you?  Makes you wonder?

I feel part of it with you is the "fallacy of sunken costs" prevents you from seeing or thinking anything other than what the government, Big Pharma and the paid for media tell you to see and think.

[Boges]

3 minutes ago, Goddess said:

Why do you think there are so many vaxxed people dying of covid?  Why do you think our case numbers have skyrocketed AFTER 80% of Canadians are vaccinated?

None of that alarms you?  Makes you wonder?

I feel part of it with you is the "fallacy of sunken costs" prevents you from seeing or thinking anything other than what the government, Big Pharma and the paid for media tell you to see and think.

1) You've only cited one doctor, not "many". Why don't you post the link again? 

2) Cite where you see "many" vaxxed people dying of COVID. I just showed Ontario Hospitalization data that well over 80% of the people Hospitalized with COVID are unvaxxed, even though they make up less than a third of the general public. 

Cases have skyrocketed in provinces out West because they relaxed public health measures. Delta is way more transmissible which means bad things for Unvaxxed. 

Also case numbers, hospitalizations and deaths are very different things.