Doug Ford and Covid 19

[Goddess]

1 hour ago, Boges said:

1) You've only cited one doctor, not "many". Why don't you post the link again? 

2) Cite where you see "many" vaxxed people dying of COVID. I just showed Ontario Hospitalization data that well over 80% of the people Hospitalized with COVID are unvaxxed, even though they make up less than a third of the general public. 

Cases have skyrocketed in provinces out West because they relaxed public health measures. Delta is way more transmissible which means bad things for Unvaxxed. 

Also case numbers, hospitalizations and deaths are very different things.

1. **Sigh**  Look, I've done the research, I've read many doctors and scientists that are sounding the alarm over this vaccine.  You won't even look at the one I've cited.  Have you read the results of the animal trials?  Because I have.  Do you really think I'm going to waste my time going back through all my research and saved items so you can blow it all off and not even consider it?  No, I'm not.  I could give you a list of all them and it wouldn't mean anything to you. They aren't hard to find, if you get your nose out of the paid media's arse.  Do your own work.  

2.  Are you insane or just really stupid?  I've already shown you that 50% of those who died of covid recently in Manitoba are vaxxed, and I showed you that over a 3rd of those in AB in the last 120 days were also vaxxed.  Look at Israel.  How many more do you need to see before you admit the vaccine is only therapeutic, at best.

Cases have skyrocketed because of relaxed public health measures?  How does that work with 80% of Canadians vaxxed?  How are our cases skyrocketing after the massive amounts of vaccines pumped out?

You go in circles, bleating your canned media cliches - 

"Cases are skyrocketing!!! Skyrocketing!!!!!!!!!!"

How can that be when so many are vaxxed?  Why are so many vaxxed people dying of covid?"

"They're dying because cases are skyrocketing!!!1 Skyrocketing!!!!!!!"

Do you see how you make no sense?

 

Edited October 4, 2021 by Goddess

[Boges]

4 hours ago, Goddess said:

1. **Sigh**  Look, I've done the research, I've read many doctors and scientists that are sounding the alarm over this vaccine.  You won't even look at the one I've cited.  Have you read the results of the animal trials?  Because I have.  Do you really think I'm going to waste my time going back through all my research and saved items so you can blow it all off and not even consider it?  No, I'm not.  I could give you a list of all them and it wouldn't mean anything to you. They aren't hard to find, if you get your nose out of the paid media's arse.  Do your own work.  

2.  Are you insane or just really stupid?  I've already shown you that 50% of those who died of covid recently in Manitoba are vaxxed, and I showed you that over a 3rd of those in AB in the last 120 days were also vaxxed.  Look at Israel.  How many more do you need to see before you admit the vaccine is only therapeutic, at best.

Cases have skyrocketed because of relaxed public health measures?  How does that work with 80% of Canadians vaxxed?  How are our cases skyrocketing after the massive amounts of vaccines pumped out?

You go in circles, bleating your canned media cliches - 

"Cases are skyrocketing!!! Skyrocketing!!!!!!!!!!"

How can that be when so many are vaxxed?  Why are so many vaxxed people dying of covid?"

"They're dying because cases are skyrocketing!!!1 Skyrocketing!!!!!!!"

Do you see how you make no sense?

See no cites. 

Your Manitoba link doesn't give a total of who actually died. What if it was four. Nor does it give their ages. 

Cases have skyrocketed in certain places like Alberta. Ontario is doing pretty well. ICU occupancy has actually dropped since the Vax passport got announced. 

Cases also don't mean Hospitalizations and deaths. Breakthrough cases amongst vaxxed are a good avenue down an endemic virus. 

[dialamah]

13 hours ago, Goddess said:

Look, I've done the research, I've read many doctors and scientists that are sounding the alarm over this vaccine.

I did some research as well, to see if I could independently substantiate  your claim that "many scientists and doctors" are concerned.  I found a few, but they didn't seem all that credible to me.  Is Dolores Cahill one of your sources?  Or, Michael Yeardon?  Or maybe it was from the Association of American Physicians and Surgeons?

Anyway, here's one for you:

"Late last year, a semi-retired British scientist co-authored a petition to Europe’s medicines regulator. The petitioners made a bold demand: Halt COVID-19 vaccine clinical trials.

Even bolder was their argument for doing so: They speculated, without providing evidence, that the vaccines could cause infertility in women.   

Social media quickly spread exaggerated claims that COVID-19 jabs cause female infertility."

I won't quote this one regarding long term effects extensively, but the highlights:

• Vaccine hesitancy is being fueled by a coordinated disinformation campaign specific to this pandemic;
• Numerous spurious and scientifically illiterate arguments are used;
• While concern about long-term effects is reasonable, they are used by the most ardent, bad-faith antagonists and at their core, are simply an objection that we cannot know for certain what the future holds;
• Vaccines do not remove or significantly attenuate biological functions in your body;
• In contrast to many other drugs taken for extended periods of time, a vaccine is typically a single intervention;
• We know exactly which substances are present in the vaccine formulations, and we possess a detailed and thorough understanding of their properties and safety profiles;
• The risk of severe immunization-related complications declines to virtually nothing after about three months;
•  The mountains of data we have available to us now show that COVID-19 vaccine-related complications are exceedingly rare, and occurring within 60 days of the vaccination;

And a direct quote:

"To put vaccine risk in perspective, consider the most frequent serious adverse event in any demographic: the rate of myocarditis in younger males. According to available evidence, if Fenway park were filled to capacity with some 37,000 fully vaccinated men aged 18 to 24, just two might experience transient myocarditis. By contrast, if all 37,000 of these men were unvaccinated and infected with the delta variant, many more would experience a diverse array of clinical outcomes, including extended periods in hospital, virus-induced myocardial injury, and diverse post-acute health complications described as “long COVID.” In other words, the sum of the diverse risks associated with vaccination are dwarfed by the diverse and incompletely understood risks posed by the novel coronavirus."

Do you know where much of the information for the vaccine hesitant; anti-lockdown; anti-mask folk originates?  From 12 social media influencers.    

How much of your "well-crafted, researched" beliefs came from one or more of these 12 social media influencers?

[Goddess]

Oh, I agree.  Misinformation is everywhere.

The most common misinformation I see amongst pro-covid vaxxers is that you can catch covid from unvaxxed people.

Totally false.  You catch covid from people who have covid.  Which can be from either vaxed or unvaxxed.  More so from vaxxed people now.

Still don't see any information on why with 80% of the population vaxxed, cases are still "skyrocketing". Or why so many people who are vaxxed are dying from covid.

Or why it's okay for schools in Ontario to vax children without parental consent.

You'll fight for toilet paper, but not your rights.

[Goddess]

2 hours ago, dialamah said:

They speculated, without providing evidence, that the vaccines could cause infertility in women.   

Yet the animal testing results, resulted in just this - infertility.  And many women are experiencing reproductive issues after the shots.

There is no long-term evidence for it causing infertility, and there is no long-term evidence that it doesn't cause infertility.

It's experimental.  

[Boges]

20 minutes ago, Goddess said:

Yet the animal testing results, resulted in just this - infertility.  And many women are experiencing reproductive issues after the shots.

Cite

Quote

 

There is no long-term evidence for it causing infertility, and there is no long-term evidence that it doesn't cause infertility.

It's experimental.  

 

What evidence do you have of any long-term effects of any vaccine? 

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/safety/safety-of-vaccines.html

Quote

 

Long-Term Side Effects Are Unlikely

Serious side effects that could cause a long-term health problem are extremely unlikely following any vaccination, including COVID-19 vaccination. Vaccine monitoring has historically shown that side effects generally happen within six weeks of receiving a vaccine dose. For this reason, the FDA required each of the authorized COVID-19 vaccines to be studied for at least two months (eight weeks) after the final dose. Millions of people have received COVID-19 vaccines, and no long-term side effects have been detected.

CDC continues to closely monitor the safety of COVID-19 vaccines. If scientists find a connection between a safety issue and a vaccine, FDA and the vaccine manufacturer will work toward an appropriate solution to address the specific safety concern (for example, a problem with a specific lot, a manufacturing issue, or the vaccine itself).

 

 

[dialamah]

29 minutes ago, Goddess said:

Totally false.  You catch covid from people who have covid.  Which can be from either vaxed or unvaxxed. 

Duh.  But more likely from unvaxed because unvaxed more likely to get sick.  Just like the flu: vaccination doesn't prevent every vaxed person from catching the flu, but it prevents a lot of flu.  Using well known and understood facts about vaccines as fodder for anti-vax arguments us weird.

32 minutes ago, Goddess said:

More so from vaxxed people now.

You wish.

32 minutes ago, Goddess said:

Still don't see any information on why with 80% of the population vaxxed, cases are still "skyrocketing".

"Skyrocketing among unvaxed".  20% of 37 million people is 7,400,000.  That's a lot of opportunity for a virus.

35 minutes ago, Goddess said:

You'll fight for toilet paper, but not your rights.

?

[Goddess]

2 minutes ago, dialamah said:

But more likely from unvaxed because unvaxed more likely to get sick. 

Are they?

The ones most likely to get sick are ones in the high-risk groups.  And a few random others, just like the seasonal flu.  But those random few are the only ones the media is telling you about.

And 50% of the covid deaths in Manitoba are now amongst the vaxxed.  Are you following what's going on in Israel?  Why did they change the product description for the vaccine from "prevents" covid to "protects" from covid?  Why?  Because it doesn't prevent it and clearly does not prevent death from covid.

 

[dialamah]

33 minutes ago, Goddess said:

Yet the animal testing results, resulted in just this - infertility

Sure it did.  Since you've decided not to provide cites I'll just file this under deliberate disinformation to further the agenda of Robert Kennedy et al. 

49 minutes ago, Goddess said:

There is no long-term evidence for it causing infertility, and there is no long-term evidence that it doesn't cause infertility.

Right.  So what other things do you avoid just in case it might be harmful?  Walking outside?  Driving?  Cooking - might burn yourself, after all. 

Your arguments are very weak and you've supplied almost nothing to back them up.

[Boges]

16 minutes ago, Goddess said:

Are they?

The ones most likely to get sick are ones in the high-risk groups.  And a few random others, just like the seasonal flu.  But those random few are the only ones the media is telling you about.

And 50% of the covid deaths in Manitoba are now amongst the vaxxed.  Are you following what's going on in Israel?  Why did they change the product description for the vaccine from "prevents" covid to "protects" from covid?  Why?  Because it doesn't prevent it and clearly does not prevent death from covid.

You provided a screenshot that didn't include the total number of people that stat entailed. 

Is it possible that it's these 2 people? 

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manitoba/manitoba-covid-19-update-monday-oct-4-1.6198813

1 vaxed 1 not? 

[Boges]

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manitoba/covid-19-modelling-manitoba-delta-variant-1.6151253

Quote

"We aren't seeing people who are doubly vaxxed in hospital or in an ICU bed. What we're seeing is unvaccinated individuals coming into hospital. The best bet to prevent … overwhelming our acute-care system is to get vaccinated and to practise the fundamentals," Atwal said.

 

[Boges]

Study released today. 

https://www.cmaj.ca/sites/default/files/additional-assets/site/press/cmaj.211248.pdf

Quote

After adjustment for age, sex, vaccination status, comorbidities, health unit and temporal trend, we observed large and significant increases in the risk of hospitalization, ICU admission and death with both N501Y-positive VOC and probable Delta infections, relative to non-VOC infections (Table 2). Adjusted risks of hospitalization, ICU admission and death were 52% (95% confidence interval [CI] 42%–63%), 89% (95% CI 67%–117%) and 51% (95% CI 30%–78%) higher, respectively, with N501Y-positive VOC than with non-VOC infections; respective differences between non-VOC and Delta infections were 108% (95% CI 78%–140%), 235% (95% CI 160%–331%) and 133% (95% CI 54%–231%).

Scientific evidence that newer variants are much more dangerous to younger, healthier people. 

Quote

People infected with VOCs were, on average, younger and less likely to have comorbid conditions than those infected with non-VOC, but nonetheless had higher crude risks of hospitalization and ICU admission

 

[Goddess]

This explains why so many doctors and nurses and scientists are alarmed.

Sep-15-FINAL-PAYNE-CPSA-letter.pdf

[Boges]

4 minutes ago, Goddess said:

This explains why so many doctors and nurses and scientists are alarmed.

Sep-15-FINAL-PAYNE-CPSA-letter.pdf 595.02 kB · 1 download

I like this quote from that PDF. 

Quote

Despite only 3.6% of Alberta physicians continuing to avoid these shots (per CPSA internal survey), I appreciate that council remains concerned that an “unvaccinated” physician might spread SARS-CoV-2, resulting in possible patient harm and lawsuits to the CPSA. However, by forcing compliance based on the current data, you would be stepping on the bedrock principles of medical ethics – especially patient autonomy. The willingness to trample individual legal and moral rights in the name of perceived communal benefits, is not justified by the current medical science and will cause predictable and unpredictable harms.

 

[Goddess]

1 hour ago, Boges said:

I like this quote from that PDF. 

 

Yes, I figured you would be unable to comprehend what his concerns are.  Not everyone has the mental capabilities to understand medical jargon.  You just stick to the media headlines, Sparky. ?

[Boges]

30 minutes ago, Goddess said:

Yes, I figured you would be unable to comprehend what his concerns are.  Not everyone has the mental capabilities to understand medical jargon.  You just stick to the media headlines, Sparky. ?

We all know that those who need to resort to Ad hominem attacks always have excellent arguments. 

This piece just goes over useless talking points we continue to hear from Anti-vaxxers. 

 

 

[Boges]

It's actually extraordinarily perverse logic to contend that the increased transmissibility of Delta is an argument against vaccination. 

[dialamah]

3 minutes ago, Boges said:

We all know that those who need to resort to Ad hominem attacks always have excellent arguments. 

This piece just goes over useless talking points we continue to hear from Anti-vaxxers. 

 

 

And throughout he uses qualifiers like "presumably" and "could" and offers possibilities along with his description of medical research.

[Goddess]

1 hour ago, dialamah said:

And throughout he uses qualifiers like "presumably" and "could" and offers possibilities along with his description of medical research.

Haha, you think you know more than him?  That's a laugh.

You know just because you willingly and with zero thought offer yourself for medical experimentation and to have your human rights violated, doesn't mean others have to.

I think it's pretty stupid.  But to each his own.

[TreeBeard]

5 hours ago, Goddess said:

Are they?

The ones most likely to get sick are ones in the high-risk groups.  And a few random others, just like the seasonal flu.  But those random few are the only ones the media is telling you about.

And 50% of the covid deaths in Manitoba are now amongst the vaxxed.  Are you following what's going on in Israel?  Why did they change the product description for the vaccine from "prevents" covid to "protects" from covid?  Why?  Because it doesn't prevent it and clearly does not prevent death from covid.

 

Why do you only look at Manitoba figures?

[Goddess]

Hey, everybody, want some of my experimental health drink?

I made it in a hurry, I have a criminal record for fraud, I won't tell you the ingredients and you can't sue me if anything goes wrong.

Oh, and if you have a problem with any of that, you're a bad person.

Who's in?

[Goddess]

2 minutes ago, TreeBeard said:

Why do you only look at Manitoba figures?

I don't.  I've been keeping my eye on a lot of places all over the world.

The question is:  Why DON'T you?

[TreeBeard]

Just now, Goddess said:

I don't.  I've been keeping my eye on a lot of places all over the world.

The question is:  Why DON'T you?

I would prefer to look at data that has a bigger sample size, particularly deaths and ICU admittance as Manitoba numbers are pretty small all around and small sample sizes tend to skew results when looking at a short time span.

Do you think the 50% deaths of vaccinated people in Manitoba somehow negates the much larger sample sizes that are showing much different results in other places?  

Can we look at Canada as a whole?  Don’t you think that would be more reliable than looking at a small province with small numbers?

[TreeBeard]

13 minutes ago, Goddess said:

I won't tell you the ingredients

Do you need a link to the ingredients of the vaccines?  

https://www.canada.ca/en/health-canada/services/drugs-health-products/covid19-industry/drugs-vaccines-treatments/vaccines/pfizer-biontech.html#a4

Didn’t you say you have done a lot of research on these? 

Edited October 5, 2021 by TreeBeard

[dialamah]

2 hours ago, Goddess said:

Haha, you think you know more than him?  That's a laugh.

You know just because you willingly and with zero thought offer yourself for medical experimentation and to have your human rights violated, doesn't mean others have to.

I think it's pretty stupid.  But to each his own.

I was commenting on his use of qualifiers, not claiming I knew more than him.  A lot of it was interesting, but using qualifiers and ending some of his claims with "crazy?" did not inspire me with confidence.