Did Trudeau Fail His Country On Covid-19

[WestCanMan]

34 minutes ago, Argus said:

I'm an investor. You can't throw DJIA numbers at me and think I'll be impressed. The Dow doesn't rise in a predictable pattern. It was at 9700 when Obama got elected. Why not use that? Because it doubled during his time in office and that doesn't sound bad like you want it to be?

The Dow isn't predictable for you, granted, but the Dow is by predictable by definition because it's based on the moves of investors. The DJ is greatly influenced by things like pandemics, new presidents, crop shortages, etc. Sometimes things like covid come up which the average investor doesn't expect, but the effect of those kinds of things is 100% predictable.

FYI the number 9700 isn't that significant. The Dow was at 14,000 just before the crash. For it to get back there was not surprising at all. 9700 would be extremely significant if that was the all time high, or if it was steady there for a few years, but it was at 13,000 in May. 9700 was a blip, based on the '08 crash. What go the US out of that crash was the second stimulus pkg that G.W.Bush tried to get passed. 

At the end of the day, Obama got the DJ 4,000 points higher than it was at the end of 2007, and he did that over the course of 8 years, that's it.

It was up 11,000 in 3 years under Trump. So, it went up 500 per year under Obama and 3,666 per year under Trump. Over 7x as much.

Trump did things with the economy that Obama, in all his wisdom, thought were impossible. He said "There's no magic wand". He was correct about that, but he underestimated the effect that a good president would have on jobs and the economy.  

[WestCanMan]

Back to the topic at hand:

Canada Population... 38,000,000

Japan Population...... 126,000,000 (3.3x as many people as Canada)

Canada pop density.. 4/sq km

Japan pop density.... 336/sq km (84x higher than Canada)

Tokyo MSA population 38,000,000 (same as Canada)

Tokyo MSA pop density 6,158/sq k (1,539x higher than Canada)

Canada covid deaths: 5,468

Japan should have 18,000 covid deaths, just based on their population. That's not even taking into account that their pop density is 84x higher than ours.

Tokyo alone should have 5,468 just based on their equal population, but with a pop density 1,500x higher they should easily have 10x as many covid deaths. 54,000. Nope.

In all of Japan there were 678 covid deaths.

What did Japan do better than us? They enacted a travel ban and told their people to wear masks. They even gave them masks.

What did Trudeau do? Called travel bans racist and told Canadians not to wear masks.

One in 7,000 Canadians died from Covid. One in 186,000 Japanese died from Covid.

If Shinzo Abe was our PM we could expect to have 204 Covid deaths, on the HIGH end. 5,264 Canadians would still be alive.

96% of Canadian covid deaths were unnecessary. Trudeau's stupidity resulted in the deaths of 5,264 Canadians.

It turns out that there was nothing counter-intuitive at all about the best strategies to fight covid-19. Travel bans and masks, just like a kid in 8th grade would have predicted. In other words, the best path was the exact opposite of the advice from the WHO, which our village idiot just copied & pasted for us. Then Trudeau paid the WHO handsomely for the bad advice that cost us 5,200 lives. In the future we will ask Japan what to do.

Yeah, trudeau failed this country miserably. It's 1,000% certain.

[Rue]

Wes the issue is unhygienic conditions from the wet marks serving as an incubator for viruses. Its a problem with China. It is an issue as to hygiene in China. Trying to deny that saying if you say that, its racist against Chinese is bullshit. Its as dangerous to Chinese as it is to anyone else. Its a failure of their regulators. You know that I know that. You know and I know we criticize their government. If people have an issue with us doing that who cares. The few I see defending China are not accusing anyone of being racist at all just fairly debating the other side of the coin. As for travel ban you and Argus wanted everyone banned not just Chinese so to call that racist is bs, again its an issue of controlling movement of people globally during a pandemic not just Chinese people. 

So in regards to your issue about how far and how early we should have banned travel is of course one of many questions. In hindsight I bet you our current government would have acted faster. I mean in hindsight it probably would have learned from Sars, created sufficient emergency inventory of medical supplies vital in a pandemic and put into place the early warning and testing system it was supposed to after Sars and never did. We knew more viruses were coming and chose to do nothing. 

The only new issue is with tracking do you do it through an app or another way. If you do it through an app how do you make sure its  not subject to privacy leaks or misuse for other reasons other than disease control. These are the issues I guess. We meaning you and me do have the benefit of hindsight when we look at the issues. How much of this was avoidable and how much wasn't we may never fully know but I will say this to you, as much as I think people screwed up with some things, others have done their best on with other issues.

Call me a sugar coated sap but I do think our governments have tried their best once the dangers of the virus were known. I mean I never expect you to trust Trudeau but let's face it he is a script reader. Again I am being arbitrary and subjective but I have found the Premiers like Ford and his counterparts in Quebec, Alberta, Nova Scotia, Manitoba, BC, very up front on their failures and what they were trying to do. Trudeau well he's been asked to be a cheer leader script writer. Look at him. What else could a drama boy do?

[Zeitgeist]

1 hour ago, WestCanMan said:

Back to the topic at hand:

Canada Population... 38,000,000

Japan Population...... 126,000,000 (3.3x as many people as Canada)

Canada pop density.. 4/sq km

Japan pop density.... 336/sq km (84x higher than Canada)

Tokyo MSA population 38,000,000 (same as Canada)

Tokyo MSA pop density 6,158/sq k (1,539x higher than Canada)

Canada covid deaths: 5,468

Japan should have 18,000 covid deaths, just based on their population. That's not even taking into account that their pop density is 84x higher than ours.

Tokyo alone should have 5,468 just based on their equal population, but with a pop density 1,500x higher they should easily have 10x as many covid deaths. 54,000. Nope.

In all of Japan there were 678 covid deaths.

What did Japan do better than us? They enacted a travel ban and told their people to wear masks. They even gave them masks.

What did Trudeau do? Called travel bans racist and told Canadians not to wear masks.

One in 7,000 Canadians died from Covid. One in 186,000 Japanese died from Covid.

If Shinzo Abe was our PM we could expect to have 204 Covid deaths, on the HIGH end. 5,264 Canadians would still be alive.

96% of Canadian covid deaths were unnecessary. Trudeau's stupidity resulted in the deaths of 5,264 Canadians.

It turns out that there was nothing counter-intuitive at all about the best strategies to fight covid-19. Travel bans and masks, just like a kid in 8th grade would have predicted. In other words, the best path was the exact opposite of the advice from the WHO, which our village idiot just copied & pasted for us. Then Trudeau paid the WHO handsomely for the bad advice that cost us 5,200 lives. In the future we will ask Japan what to do.

Yeah, trudeau failed this country miserably. It's 1,000% certain.

You wouldn’t have enacted those measures because the verdict wasn’t in on masks and we didn’t have enough of them on hand anyway.  Trudeau isn’t single-handedly responsible for all those deaths.  We have a completely different way of life from Japan and many of these shining examples of groupthink society.  We’re not used to all of the compromise, surveillance, and control of places like Singapore, Japan or Taiwan.  In Tokyo there are people to help people back out of parking spots.  There are railways within inches of buildings.  Movements must be carefully choreographed for those societies to function well.

Trump may have found acceptance in blocking Chinese visits to the US, but he wouldn’t have found the same acceptance blocking flights from Europe.  People expect a certain freedom of movement and a higher level of freedom in general.  It’s why Trump still refuses to wear a mask.  

[Guest ProudConservative]

Of Course Trudeau failed. Just like he failed the via rail employees, by going along with the 3 week blockade. It's a Plandemic!

[WestCanMan]

1 hour ago, Zeitgeist said:

You wouldn’t have enacted those measures because the verdict wasn’t in on masks and we didn’t have enough of them on hand anyway.  Trudeau isn’t single-handedly responsible for all those deaths.  We have a completely different way of life from Japan and many of these shining examples of groupthink society.  We’re not used to all of the compromise, surveillance, and control of places like Singapore, Japan or Taiwan.  In Tokyo there are people to help people back out of parking spots.  There are railways within inches of buildings.  Movements must be carefully choreographed for those societies to function well.

Trump may have found acceptance in blocking Chinese visits to the US, but he wouldn’t have found the same acceptance blocking flights from Europe.  People expect a certain freedom of movement and a higher level of freedom in general.  It’s why Trump still refuses to wear a mask.  

Instead of calling the travel ban racist he should have done it here. He got on board 45 days after Trump, and even Trump would have done it earlier if he knew what he knows now.

He should have recommended that people who have masks, wear them. Even if it's just cotton. It would help with the "say it don't spray it" people or for when people cough or sneeze. 

That doesn't mean social distancing and all the other things wouldn't be necessary, we'd just be learning from other people's mistakes instead of our own.

 

[Guest ProudConservative]

7 minutes ago, WestCanMan said:

Instead of calling the travel ban racist he should have done it here. He got on board 45 days after Trump, and even Trump would have done it earlier if he knew what he knows now.

He should have recommended that people who have masks, wear them. Even if it's just cotton. It would help with the "say it don't spray it" people or for when people cough or sneeze. 

That doesn't mean social distancing and all the other things wouldn't be necessary, we'd just be learning from other people's mistakes instead of our own.

How pissed off are you about the economic destruction taking place to the western countries?

[WestCanMan]

5 minutes ago, ProudConservative said:

How pissed off are you about the economic destruction taking place to the western countries?

If we had done better vs covid in the late winter we would be able to have a reasonable economy now.

I'm mostly pissed that travel remained open right up to the point that the whole country had to be completely shut down. It was THE MOST OBVIOUS, BASIC defence to employ.

Telling people not to wear masks was stupid, and so was closing the big, wide open parks. Exercise and sunlight are good for people, pandemic or no. Social distancing is just important when you're out. 

We shouldn't have had to shut down so much, for so long. We should be further alog the re-opening curve. This was a total clusterfork from the word "go".

[Guest ProudConservative]

7 minutes ago, WestCanMan said:

If we had done better vs covid in the late winter we would be able to have a reasonable economy now.

I'm mostly pissed that travel remained open right up to the point that the whole country had to be completely shut down. It was THE MOST OBVIOUS, BASIC defence to employ.

Telling people not to wear masks was stupid, and so was closing the big, wide open parks. Exercise and sunlight are good for people, pandemic or no. Social distancing is just important when you're out. 

We shouldn't have had to shut down so much, for so long. We should be further alog the re-opening curve. This was a total clusterfork from the word "go".

I got very angry when Doug Ford called the protesters a bunch of Selfish Yahoo's.

How are they selfish, when they could be risking their lives to try and warn us that the "Cure could be far worse than the disease" 

The problem is, now everyone is wiped up into such a frenzy, no one is paying attention to Canada's finances.

A few more weeks, and we could lose millions of jobs permanently.

We're at a point now, where we have to pick a poison... let a few thousand seniors die, or put millions on welfare.

Edited May 15, 2020 by ProudConservative

[OftenWrong]

7 hours ago, ProudConservative said:

I got very angry when Doug Ford called the protesters a bunch of Selfish Yahoo's.

How are they selfish, when they could be risking their lives to try and warn us that the "Cure could be far worse than the disease"

It is interesting that people who call themselves right wingers now dislike Doug Ford, while those on the left have "warmed up to him".

Note however that Doug Ford did have a nice Mother's day visit from his grown-up daughters. My neighbour's mom died in an old-age home. He wasn't allowed to visit her.

 

[WestCanMan]

The Chinese govt bought up PPE, lied about the H2H transmission, name-called countries for blocking travel, now they're selling fake N95 masks, and our worthless piece of shit PM is still supporting China. 

We're also supporting the WHO despite the fact that they only have 1 job to do on this whole planet which is to give good advice during viral outbreaks, they have years to prepare for it, get billions of dollars for it, and then when that one thing happens they give advice so bad that 8th graders all over the world were shaking their heads. AAAaaaaannnnnd our worthless piece of shit PM supports the WHO too. 

My mother in-law still likes him lol. Her kids and I can even talk to her about it or she gets flaky like she's going to have a panic attack. It's just bizarre how well some people can be brainwashed. 

[New World Disorder]

23 hours ago, WestCanMan said:

Dude you just ignored actual, undeniable evidence of serious lying of the lowest order in that post, and went on to post nothing more than your own worthless, unsubstantiated opinion lol.

Your post isn't just useless it's evidence of your willingness to be a "useful idiot".

Right, it's not like we cannot use Trumps own words to show that he is constantly lying.

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2020/04/trumps-lies-about-coronavirus/608647/

 

 

[Argus]

16 hours ago, WestCanMan said:

The Dow isn't predictable for you, granted, but the Dow is by predictable by definition because it's based on the moves of investors. The DJ is greatly influenced by things like pandemics, new presidents, crop shortages, etc. Sometimes things like covid come up which the average investor doesn't expect, but the effect of those kinds of things is 100% predictable.

It's also impacted by massive government spending and huge tax cuts. So the Republicans (not Trump) decided to, as one opinion maker said 'give a kiss to the cheek - the butt cheek) of their donor class, and slashed corporate taxes - even though the markets were already doing fine and business was booming. Sure, this resulted in the corporations raking in more profits, which drove the dow up. But every cent of those tax cuts was paid for by borrowing, by throwing more debt onto the shoulders of future Americans. So all this shows is Trump is a friend to big corporations, not to America.

 

 

[Argus]

4 hours ago, OftenWrong said:

It is interesting that people who call themselves right wingers now dislike Doug Ford, while those on the left have "warmed up to him".

Note however that Doug Ford did have a nice Mother's day visit from his grown-up daughters. My neighbour's mom died in an old-age home. He wasn't allowed to visit her.

 

Ford and his wife weren't able to visit his mother in law in a nursing home either. You blaming him for the way nursing homes are overrun with disease?

[OftenWrong]

2 minutes ago, Argus said:

Ford and his wife weren't able to visit his mother in law in a nursing home either. You blaming him for the way nursing homes are overrun with disease?

Yes, I am absolutely and completely blaming him and all ignorant leaders who ahve allowed nursing homes to be overrun with this disease. They could have done things to minimize that. For example they could have focused their useless efforts at creating more separation, opening up spaces to accomodate people. Even if it's in a gym. They need more space to quarantine those who are sick from those who are healthy. (Not the other way around).

Every year the flu wipes out many old people in these homes. That's how a lot of them die. Pointing this out too, so there can be no excuse to say we didn't see this part coming. I was warning of it months ago, while you people continue to gush over the useless idiot non-leader and meathead Doug Dord.

[Argus]

19 minutes ago, OftenWrong said:

Yes, I am absolutely and completely blaming him and all ignorant leaders who ahve allowed nursing homes to be overrun with this disease. They could have done things to minimize that. For example they could have focused their useless efforts at creating more separation, opening up spaces to accomodate people. Even if it's in a gym. They need more space to quarantine those who are sick from those who are healthy. (Not the other way around).

Every year the flu wipes out many old people in these homes. That's how a lot of them die. Pointing this out too, so there can be no excuse to say we didn't see this part coming. I was warning of it months ago, while you people continue to gush over the useless idiot non-leader and meathead Doug Dord.

I've never gushed over him or any other politician. I've criticized him more than I've congratulated him. That being the case, the Liberals let the eldercare system run down. In the fifteen years of their running the province they added just 600 odd new beds in long term care homes, despite the population growing by 3 million, and aging as well. Ford is well on his way to adding the 15,000 LTC beds he promised, and has promised another 15,000 if he gets re-elected.

The nature of these homes, especially the older ones, makes it very hard to separate people. The majority of those in them have cognitive difficulties, from alzheimers, dementia and senility. Most have multiple physical issues, including mobility. They live on wards, as opposed to private rooms, and it's very hard to keep them from wandering.

[OftenWrong]

1 hour ago, Argus said:

I've never gushed over him or any other politician. I've criticized him more than I've congratulated him. That being the case, the Liberals let the eldercare system run down. In the fifteen years of their running the province they added just 600 odd new beds in long term care homes, despite the population growing by 3 million, and aging as well. Ford is well on his way to adding the 15,000 LTC beds he promised, and has promised another 15,000 if he gets re-elected.

The nature of these homes, especially the older ones, makes it very hard to separate people. The majority of those in them have cognitive difficulties, from alzheimers, dementia and senility. Most have multiple physical issues, including mobility. They live on wards, as opposed to private rooms, and it's very hard to keep them from wandering.

Lots of things right now are hard now. It is hard too for many to be at home, and all the cost that brings. Some things we've done are useless a waste of time and money. Certainly those who are ill with dementia are even more difficult to control for things like social distancing. Yet we seem to be less concerned here.

Keep in mind the data shows this is where >85% of people have died from Covid. It almost approaches 100%, if you add in those who are in private non-government homes, and those elderly who died but are not in nursing homes. If that can be fixed, almost no one would be dead from the virus.

Edited May 15, 2020 by OftenWrong

[OftenWrong]

4 hours ago, Argus said:

I've never gushed over him or any other politician. I've criticized him more than I've congratulated him. That being the case, the Liberals let the eldercare system run down. In the fifteen years of their running the province they added just 600 odd new beds in long term care homes, despite the population growing by 3 million, and aging as well. Ford is well on his way to adding the 15,000 LTC beds he promised, and has promised another 15,000 if he gets re-elected.

A leader knows what to do in an emergency. We do not elect people who are nation leaders, we elect people who are good at things like finance. Donald Trump is not a nation leader, as we see how helpless and useless he is in this crisis. Same goes for Mr. Trudeau of course, although it's not a surprise at all. He was already helpless and useless before this began. Not a leader, not knowledegable of finance either. He was elected for his name and hairstyle, as far as I can tell. Doug Ford another non-leader who is perplexed at what's going on. This never happened in council meetings in City Hall. Although he served only 1 term there, I believe. He spent the rest of his time in his brothers office, handling calls and taking care of things. What kind of things, you ask? All kind of things.

 

[WestCanMan]

11 hours ago, New World Disorder said:

Right, it's not like we cannot use Trumps own words to show that he is constantly lying.

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2020/04/trumps-lies-about-coronavirus/608647/

The idiot who wrote that article just doesn’t understand what’s going on. 
1) Virus deaths peaked on April 21 so the April turnaround wasn’t a lie. 
2) Suicide deaths vs octogenarian deaths is not a straight comp. Ask any 80 yr old if they’d rather die or have one of their kids die, or grandkids. Anyone who doesn’t choose death should be dead. 
3) 47,000 suicides in a year is bad, Trump is trying to avoid a 100k year, or a 200k year. Foreclosures, substance abuse, business closures, unemployment and general economic chaos are huge drivers for suicide and obviously homelessness. Homelessness also causes deaths which aren’t classified “suicides” but all of those deaths are attributable to the same economic hardships. 
 

I didn’t read the rest of that article. It’s crapaganda. 

[New World Disorder]

14 hours ago, WestCanMan said:

The idiot who wrote that article just doesn’t understand what’s going on. 
1) Virus deaths peaked on April 21 so the April turnaround wasn’t a lie. 
2) Suicide deaths vs octogenarian deaths is not a straight comp. Ask any 80 yr old if they’d rather die or have one of their kids die, or grandkids. Anyone who doesn’t choose death should be dead. 
3) 47,000 suicides in a year is bad, Trump is trying to avoid a 100k year, or a 200k year. Foreclosures, substance abuse, business closures, unemployment and general economic chaos are huge drivers for suicide and obviously homelessness. Homelessness also causes deaths which aren’t classified “suicides” but all of those deaths are attributable to the same economic hardships. 
 

I didn’t read the rest of that article. It’s crapaganda. 

There is no way any sane person would believe what Trump says. Trump has the best crapaganda, all the best crapaganda. Tremendous crapaganda.

[WestCanMan]

34 minutes ago, New World Disorder said:

There is no way any sane person would believe what Trump says. Trump has the best crapaganda, all the best crapaganda. Tremendous crapaganda.

So instead of admitting that your article was trash you double on the stupidity of it. You must be a journalist. 

[New World Disorder]

18 hours ago, WestCanMan said:

So instead of admitting that your article was trash you double on the stupidity of it. You must be a journalist. 

I did not admit to a damn thing. One only has to listen to Trump PRE-pandemic, compared to now.  Two very different Trumps.

[OftenWrong]

Mr. Trudeau is failing our farmers during this crisis, and in doing so may create a second wave of crisis.

Ontario grain farmers say they need support from Ottawa
The Star

Quote

"Trudeau is standing by as Canada's food supplies collapse"

The video was pulled from YouTube. Not popular, as it blames Justin Trudeau but portrays the US support program for their farmers in a positive light.

Why is the Trudeau government not responding to the needs of farmers who are going to go into huge debt themselves to produce our crops? Why should Canadian farmers want to do that?

 

[WestCanMan]

5 hours ago, New World Disorder said:

I did not admit to a damn thing. One only has to listen to Trump PRE-pandemic, compared to now.  Two very different Trumps.

Listen to anyone pre-pandemic. Check out my comments, they're all still here. I stand by every single thing I said right from day 1. 

Look at what the Dems and CNN were saying back on Jan 31 They were talking about Ukrainian collusion and the Primary. They didn't give a rip about covid. They were calling the travel ban racist because they're all dumb AF. Nancy Pelosi had a "social distancing is BAD" party in SF on Feb 24th. Oour own PM called the travel ban racist. 

Trump only got it partly-right. Trudeau got every single thing wrong. He didn't ban travel, he told people NOT to wear masks, so he was 100% wrong on both counts. 

If you wanna chuck shit at Trump, then find the examples of people on Trudeau's team or within the ranks of the Dem party who were giving better advice than Trump WITH THE BENEFIT OF HINDSIGHT. Go ahead NWO. Find some of that, could ya? Find ONE DEM who was saying all the right things back when Trump was "screwing up" and then you'll have something that you can actually talk about, because right now you're just running your mouth but you have nothing intelligent to say.

Edited May 17, 2020 by WestCanMan

[New World Disorder]

2 hours ago, WestCanMan said:

Listen to anyone pre-pandemic. Check out my comments, they're all still here. I stand by every single thing I said right from day 1. 

Look at what the Dems and CNN were saying back on Jan 31 They were talking about Ukrainian collusion and the Primary. They didn't give a rip about covid. They were calling the travel ban racist because they're all dumb AF. Nancy Pelosi had a "social distancing is BAD" party in SF on Feb 24th. Oour own PM called the travel ban racist. 

Trump only got it partly-right. Trudeau got every single thing wrong. He didn't ban travel, he told people NOT to wear masks, so he was 100% wrong on both counts. 

If you wanna chuck shit at Trump, then find the examples of people on Trudeau's team or within the ranks of the Dem party who were giving better advice than Trump WITH THE BENEFIT OF HINDSIGHT. Go ahead NWO. Find some of that, could ya? Find ONE DEM who was saying all the right things back when Trump was "screwing up" and then you'll have something that you can actually talk about, because right now you're just running your mouth but you have nothing intelligent to say.

I shit on Trudeau equally.  Both Trump and Trudeau failed the people during this pandemic. It's as simple as that.