The Coronavirus

[Argus]

1 hour ago, -TSS- said:

It must be painful for young people whose lives consist very much of things like festivals and concerts or other things where large crowds of people gather together. As for the rest of us, it is quite astonishing how quickly one adapts to these otherwise very unnatural circumstances and learns to deal with them accordingly.

Especially if you are not in economic difficulties. If you worked for any of the levels of government, including schools and universities, you're still collecting your paycheque. Many others, especially in finance and tech, are working from home. The poorest with retail jobs are probably getting as much from the government as they made at work. But there is another group which was making more than your average retail worker, but either doesn't qualify for CERB or is getting way less with it, who are going to be hurting the most (aside from the victims, of course). And lots of retail store and restaurant owners, the small, independents ones, are going to be totally screwed. The millennials who got screwed with the last big financial meltdown are going to be the ones taking it on the chin again with this one. Especially if the economy doesn't just burst into full throated power in a year but wastes away for years to come.

[-TSS-]

I guess there is also a lot of complacency about the definition of the so-called risk-groups which is understood to mean only the elderly people.

So, if you are considerably under the age of 70 you may think you are safe. But it is not only the elderly who are the risk-group. People with underlying health-conditions belong there too. People who are obese, of which there are millions in America, people who have diabetes, asthma etc.

[dialamah]

2 hours ago, -TSS- said:

I guess there is also a lot of complacency about the definition of the so-called risk-groups which is understood to mean only the elderly people.

So, if you are considerably under the age of 70 you may think you are safe. But it is not only the elderly who are the risk-group. People with underlying health-conditions belong there too. People who are obese, of which there are millions in America, people who have diabetes, asthma etc.

Not to mention, even healthy young people, with no underlying conditions and with mild covid symptoms can have very bad outcomes.

Quote

The patient’s chart appeared unremarkable at first glance. He took no medications and had no history of chronic conditions. He had been feeling fine, hanging out at home during the lockdown like the rest of the country, when suddenly, he had trouble talking and moving the right side of his body. Imaging showed a large blockage on the left side of his head.

Oxley gasped when he got to the patient’s age and covid-19 status: 44, positive.

The man was among several recent stroke patients in their 30s to 40s who were all infected with the coronavirus. The median age for that type of severe stroke is 74.

[ ]

On the monitors, the brain typically shows up as a tangle of black squiggles — “like a can of spaghetti,” he said — that provide a map of blood vessels. A clot shows up as a blank spot. As he used a needlelike device to pull out the clot, he saw new clots forming in real-time around it.

“This is crazy,” he remembers telling his boss.

 

 

[marcus]

On 4/22/2020 at 10:28 PM, WestCanMan said:

They get talking points from Dem media liaisons. 
You’ll notice from time to time that they all “randomly” end up using the exact same unique catch-phrase, or asking the same stupid question, like: “When Trump asked Russia to help find the emails, was it treason?”

CNN and MSNBC are the troglodytes of the leftist mob. They make the dumbest arguments which appeal to the lowest level of leftists, the rest of the leftist media back them up but they try to maintain the appearance of not being retarded. 

Majority of what CNN and MSNBC says about Trump and the GOP is true.

I don't think that's their problem.

The problem is that they don't show the same scruitany when they talk about the Democrats. Especially the Democrats who are part of the establishment (Biden, Clinton, Obama).

[WestCanMan]

17 minutes ago, marcus said:

Majority of what CNN and MSNBC says about Trump and the GOP is true.

I don't think that's their problem.

The problem is that they don't show the same scruitany when they talk about the Democrats. Especially the Democrats who are part of the establishment (Biden, Clinton, Obama).

Dude, the whole Russian collusion thing was a farce and Van Jones said as much OVER A YEAR BEFORE THE FAKE INVESTIGATION ENDED.

Find me a comp, where a news org lied like that for so long (not incl CBC re: Duffygate). 

[marcus]

1 minute ago, WestCanMan said:

Dude, the whole Russian collusion thing was a farce and Van Jones said as much OVER A YEAR BEFORE THE FAKE INVESTIGATION ENDED.

Find me a comp, where a news org lied like that for so long (not incl CBC re: Duffygate). 

It was news, but not the way CNN obsessed over it. They did this for ratings.

This is a result of the absolutism, left vs right mentality that has overtaken U.S. and to some extent in Canada.

It is a problem.

Unfortunately you're part of that problem as well. Look at the way you react to everything Trudeau. Not to mention your immediate apologies for anything "the other side" does.

 

[-TSS-]

I honestly couldn't give a shit if all bars and restaurants were shut forever but  there are a lot of people whose livelihoods depend on those places opening as soon as possible. 

I'm glad I'm not young any more! 

[Right To Left]

32 minutes ago, marcus said:

Majority of what CNN and MSNBC says about Trump and the GOP is true.

I don't think that's their problem.

The problem is that they don't show the same scruitany when they talk about the Democrats. Especially the Democrats who are part of the establishment (Biden, Clinton, Obama).

Being dual US/Can citizen with a lot of cousins, nephews and nieces stateside, I can't get over how sucked in to the reality show fake drama even the brightest and most astute of them have been in recent times.

Looking in from the outside, the only apparent difference between the two parties is regarding social positioning (liberal vs conservative) and a few cultural / non-monetary issues. Because when it comes to money issues, most Democrat candidates are funded by the same donors as Republicans, and therefore if they agree to public healthcare, it's going to be a sham like Obama concocted with the ACA...which sends public dollars through private insurance and drug companies rather than providing a public system that's not dependent on what a sick person has in their wallet.

Likewise, in geopolitics, I had more than a few arguments with younger relatives who support Bernie, AOC and a few other fake radicals, and never notice that their chosen heroes don't tread very far from the company line when it comes to regime change ops or the use of sanctions and embargoes as low-grade warfare! 

The MSM elevates and highlights the minor differences to create a pro-wrestling like drama to hide their bipartisanship. We can see this now in the Covid Era where both parties unanimously signed on to bailing out and underwriting trillions in debts and almost certain insolvent loans to revive Wall Street and protect the four largest banks from failure.

[Right To Left]

8 minutes ago, -TSS- said:

I honestly couldn't give a shit if all bars and restaurants were shut forever but  there are a lot of people whose livelihoods depend on those places opening as soon as possible. 

I'm glad I'm not young any more! 

Me neither....young that is!  But when I heard some squawking about Sweden in recent weeks, I checked into the story and discovered that the rightwing clods who want to re-open everything do not have honorable intentions. Because although Sweden didn't do a lockdown like other Scandinavian countries or Britain and France, their 'social distancing' strategies include marking off most of the seats in restaurants so that they could onlly serve a quarter of their normal clientele. 

I'm not sure how that would work out here (let alone in the US). We seem to have enough problems just trying to enforce similar rules on our transit buses and trying to enforce the 'essential travel' rules. 

[eyeball]

9 minutes ago, Right To Left said:

The MSM elevates and highlights the minor differences to create a pro-wrestling like drama to hide their bipartisanship.

If they're doing this for any reason at all its that stoking controversy makes them money which produces good quarterly reports and maybe a bonus.

So what if a few foist off a little bias along the way, everyone has a filter for that. Maintaining filters is pretty easy assuming one is aware they have one.

Edited April 25, 2020 by eyeball

[WestCanMan]

45 minutes ago, marcus said:

It was news, but not the way CNN obsessed over it. They did this for ratings.

This is a result of the absolutism, left vs right mentality that has overtaken U.S. and to some extent in Canada.

It is a problem.

Unfortunately you're part of that problem as well. Look at the way you react to everything Trudeau. Not to mention your immediate apologies for anything "the other side" does.

My perspective is amazing by comparison to CBC and CNN, thanks. 

[Right To Left]

1 hour ago, eyeball said:

If they're doing this for any reason at all its that stoking controversy makes them money which produces good quarterly reports and maybe a bonus.

So what if a few foist off a little bias along the way, everyone has a filter for that. Maintaining filters is pretty easy assuming one is aware they have one.

The problem in the modern era of media consolidation is that large corporate interests put their stamp on the new/infotainment divisions they own. It's not just about money, it's also about serving up the kind of propaganda their owners want.

[eyeball]

4 minutes ago, Right To Left said:

The problem in the modern era of media consolidation is that large corporate interests put their stamp on the new/infotainment divisions they own. It's not just about money, it's also about serving up the kind of propaganda their owners want.

This is a problem that can be easily resolved with a half decent BS filter.  There's no excuse for not having one or using it.

[bush_cheney2004]

Canadians flout distancing ban...."Trudeau U gotta go !"

 

Quote

Scores of people gathered on the Ontario legislative grounds on Saturday afternoon to call for an end to the shutdown of many services, businesses, activities and public spaces across the province amid the pandemic. At its peak, the protest drew about 200 people.

Ontario has been under a state of emergency for 40 days and much is closed as the number of COVID-19 deaths, hospitalizations and cases continues to rise. 

 

 

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/ontario-shutdown-protesters-queens-park-yahoos-1.5545253

[Zeitgeist]

1 hour ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

Canadians flout distancing ban...."Trudeau U gotta go !"

 

 

 

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/ontario-shutdown-protesters-queens-park-yahoos-1.5545253

Restrictions do need to continue longer in southern Ontario than in most parts of the country, but hopefully not much longer.  Numbers are flattening but have further to go in the GTA.  Quebec will likely have longer to wait in and around Montreal.  Most of Ontario’s deaths are in seniors’ homes.  

[marcus]

6 hours ago, WestCanMan said:

My perspective is amazing by comparison to CBC and CNN, thanks. 

How do you see CBC?

[WestCanMan]

9 hours ago, marcus said:

How do you see CBC?

CBC is a left-wing drivel factory that grabs onto farcical criticisms of the leader of a different country and propagates them while ignoring blatant failures of the leader of their own country. 
 

CBC has never hinted at a question of whether or not Trudeau handled covid perfectly. They act like he sets a grand example when he’s hiding, crossing provincial borders for personal trips, dodging parliament, and most recently acting like our gun laws, which worked perfectly in NS, were the failure behind the massacre. 
 

CBC is Trudeau’s toady, and no matter what stupid things he says or does they lionize him for it. It’s galling, pathetic, farcical and bad for the unity of the country. 

[Zeitgeist]

25 minutes ago, WestCanMan said:

CBC is a left-wing drivel factory that grabs onto farcical criticisms of the leader of a different country and propagates them while ignoring blatant failures of the leader of their own country. 
 

CBC has never hinted at a question of whether or not Trudeau handled covid perfectly. They act like he sets a grand example when he’s hiding, crossing provincial borders for personal trips, dodging parliament, and most recently acting like our gun laws, which worked perfectly in NS, were the failure behind the massacre. 
 

CBC is Trudeau’s toady, and no matter what stupid things he says or does they lionize him for it. It’s galling, pathetic, farcical and bad for the unity of the country. 

Okay Trudeau had moved to Rideau cottage as a form of self-isolation.  Canada has official residences just north of Ottawa inside Quebec.

 I trust the CBC over most networks because I know journalists first hand and the standards of accountability and reporting.  FOX News may have journalistic integrity in much of its reporting too, but it also has a lot of sensationalism and opinion with particular political perspectives.

The problem with all mainstream journalism, especially on privately funded networks, is that it is fighting for viewership in order to gain advertisers.  That often plays out in sensationalism and provocative talking points.   Noam Chomsky talked about this decades ago. It’s not particular to CNN, FOX or NBC, but you’ll find more of it there than on PBS or even the CBC, which is funded both by taxes and advertising.  

Edited April 26, 2020 by Zeitgeist

[OftenWrong]

11 hours ago, Zeitgeist said:

Restrictions do need to continue longer in southern Ontario than in most parts of the country, but hopefully not much longer.  Numbers are flattening but have further to go in the GTA.  Quebec will likely have longer to wait in and around Montreal.  Most of Ontario’s deaths are in seniors’ homes.  

I do not see the numbers for Canada flattening out. It looks to me actually that the death rate for Canada, and indeed for the world as a whole, is still increasing. I can back that up if you don't believe me. By increasing I mean the infection rate and death rate are both going up, not holding steady and not going down yet.

If this is true, please justify your (the government's) position it's ok to relax now, given that more people are being infected and dying each day now than ever before.

[Zeitgeist]

13 minutes ago, OftenWrong said:

I do not see the numbers for Canada flattening out. It looks to me actually that the death rate for Canada, and indeed for the world as a whole, is still increasing. I can back that up if you don't believe me. By increasing I mean the infection rate and death rate are both going up, not holding steady and not going down yet.

If this is true, please justify your (the government's) position it's ok to relax now, given that more people are being infected and dying each day now than ever before.

The percentage increase of infections is declining nationally and especially in places like B.C. and Saskatchewan.  Greater Montreal is hardest hit.  The death rate falls after the infection rate.  The biggest issue in both Ontario and Quebec is seniors’ homes, responsible for roughly two thirds of deaths.  I think we’re going to see a shift from this kind of care to home care, due to the Petrie dish aspect of homes and the discoveries of neglect.  

[Argus]

24 minutes ago, OftenWrong said:

I do not see the numbers for Canada flattening out. It looks to me actually that the death rate for Canada, and indeed for the world as a whole, is still increasing. I can back that up if you don't believe me. By increasing I mean the infection rate and death rate are both going up, not holding steady and not going down yet.

If this is true, please justify your (the government's) position it's ok to relax now, given that more people are being infected and dying each day now than ever before.

The infection rate, ie, the number of positive cases, is not really any indication as we are increasing testing every week. Obviously if you're doing a lot more testing you'll get more positives. The death rate seems to be more closely aligned with the breakouts in nursing homes and senior residences. It took longer to get going there since they banned visitors, but eventually the staff themselves brought it in.

[Zeitgeist]

13 minutes ago, Argus said:

The infection rate, ie, the number of positive cases, is not really any indication as we are increasing testing every week. Obviously if you're doing a lot more testing you'll get more positives. The death rate seems to be more closely aligned with the breakouts in nursing homes and senior residences. It took longer to get going there since they banned visitors, but eventually the staff themselves brought it in.

With greater testing we’re still seeing flattening of new cases, from a high of around 2000 a day last week to around 1500 yesterday.  Progress but there’s a ways to go.  

[OftenWrong]

16 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

The percentage increase of infections is declining nationally and especially in places like B.C. and Saskatchewan.

Sorry but the data I see shows that the percent increase of infections is still increasing.

The "Daily New Cases" graph for Canada shows the trend is still increasing. What you see is a number of different peaks and valleys in the bar graph. Looking from left to right:
- The peaks are all increasing.
- The valleys are also all increasing.

Looking at it , it's easy to see the trend is positive, whether averaged over a week or a month.
If the graph compared to the overall shape of data from China (dubious though it may be...) The trend will continue positive for a while, then maintain a plateau (flattened the curve). That's what you understand as good, but let me point out that is also the point of maximum deaths per day. Rate no longer increasng, but how many days will it sustain? Because then you still have to get to the next step, rate decreasing.

The "Daily New Deaths in Canada" bar graph shows similar positive trend, as it will.

Data for what it's worth here-
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/canada/

[Zeitgeist]

April 20 was the high point, but we have increased testing and numbers are flattening.   Just over 2000 then, just under 1500 yesterday. I can’t copy the graph, but the valleys are appearing and the numbers aren’t increasing over the high.  Very hard to gauge anyway when testing levels increase.  We seem to be seeing just under 150 deaths a day.  The US seems to have just over 2300 deaths per day.  For some perspective, the UK is seeing 700-800 deaths per day with a population less than twice Canada’s.  We’re on the right track in terms of flattening, but I don’t think eliminating the virus with any of our western approaches will eliminate the virus unless we get a vaccine, which may take many years. We have to do our best to control the rate of infection, so we can best treat the virus while reopening the economy.  We either end up with relatively high death rates but gain some herd immunity with a fairly open economy or we keep our death rate relatively low with less immunity and more restrictions.  Most of the economy does have to open soon or eventually we’ll have bigger problems than the virus.  Germany seems like a realistic track for Canada. Sweden is a bigger pill to swallow but they never closed their economy and won’t bear the same debt costs we will.  There are health outcomes for poverty and having less money to fund healthcare and other services.  

Edited April 26, 2020 by Zeitgeist

[WestCanMan]

1 hour ago, Zeitgeist said:

Okay Trudeau had moved to Rideau cottage as a form of self-isolation.  Canada has official residences just north of Ottawa inside Quebec.

 I trust the CBC over most networks because I know journalists first hand and the standards of accountability and reporting.  FOX News may have journalistic integrity in much of its reporting too, but it also has a lot of sensationalism and opinion with particular political perspectives.

The problem with all mainstream journalism, especially on privately funded networks, is that it is fighting for viewership in order to gain advertisers.  That often plays out in sensationalism and provocative talking points.   Noam Chomsky talked about this decades ago. It’s not particular to CNN, FOX or NBC, but you’ll find more of it there than on PBS or even the CBC, which is funded both by taxes and advertising.  

Dude, CBC is an epic failure on the important issue of holding our PM accountable, and they showed massive bias in elevating the $90K duffygate scandal into the issue of the century.

Quickly try to think of something that got more coverage than $90K duffygate on CBC..........

Russian collusion? Yep, But it turned out to be fake, and no one is truly surprised. But did they talk about the FBI malfeasance that happened in that case? Nope. Thats a pretty big deal, but nope.

Kavanaugh? Sure, briefly, but they were exercising journalistic bias on that topic and they were on the wrong side of history.

9/11. OK, sure.

Did they give SNC, an actual scandal, that much coverage? Nope. Did they even touch on one of the main topics in that scandal? Nope. Do you even know why it's so vastly significant that Trudeau was caught helping them, of all the companies in Canada? Probably not. It has nothing to do with where the people at SNC live and work.

CBC acted like Trudeau was the greatest thing since sliced bread for 4 years, then when Scheer lost the election (but won the popular vote) the CBC came out with an attack on Scheer for losing the election despite all of Trudeau's scandals and crimes.  WTF? Talk about coming out of left field. 

CBC is a total farce. Watching CBC is like drinking stupidity from a firehose.