Zeitgeist Posted March 20, 2020 Report Share Posted March 20, 2020 (edited) 5 hours ago, bush_cheney2004 said: That's great...the U.S. has donated all kinds of things before as well, including heavy airlift. If you’re referring to Canada’s use of America’s heavy airlift, we paid for that. Trying to do everything ourselves is not a winning strategy for a small country. Some say we should try to do more ourselves, some less. Rich? That’s a matter of perspective. Confederation tries to share the wealth, and on the whole Canada is a well off country, but I’m sure Albertans aren’t feeling rich right now. Nevertheless, not having provincial sales tax and putting too many eggs in the resource basket are policy choices that province made. We try to make the best decisions we can based on our current knowledge. I do think it’s time for a rethink, not so much on single projects like a natural gas pipeline, because we probably need that, and one project doesn’t make or break us, but on the way the whole system operates. We can’t be so reliant on the stock market and business to take care of the basics anymore because they are too vulnerable. We need to be able to adjust quickly to shocks without tanking the economy, because shocks are inevitable, especially in this more crowded and stressed environment. This is the time to lean on the possibilities of automation to meet our needs and create wealth for all. It’s also time to move towards open source sharing of information on essential items like vaccines for pandemics. Online videoconferencing and data sharing will play a central role, as will low carbon footprint mass production and community development. We will have to become super light on our feet and more responsive in this new world or else events like natural disasters and pandemics will soon destroy us. Hopefully we learn sooner than later. If necessity is the mother of invention, we should see lots of inventiveness right now. Edited March 20, 2020 by Zeitgeist Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted March 20, 2020 Report Share Posted March 20, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, Zeitgeist said: If you’re referring to Canada’s use of America’s heavy airlift, we paid for that. Trying to do everything ourselves is not a winning strategy for a small country. Some say we should try to do more ourselves, some less. Rich? That’s a matter of perspective. Confederation tries to share the wealth, and on the whole Canada is a well off country, but I’m sure Albertans aren’t feeling rich right now. Nevertheless, not having provincial sales tax and putting too many eggs in the resource basket are policy choices that province made. And even that was a struggle, only winning the day because Canadian Forces were deployed with inadequate equipment and logistics support. Everything seems to be a struggle when it comes to spending that kind of money. (BTW, those were USAF production aircraft that Canada cut in line to buy...not planned). Quote We try to make the best decisions we can based on our current knowledge. I do think it’s time for a rethink, not so much on single projects like a natural gas pipeline, because we probably need that, and one project doesn’t make or break us, but on the way the whole system operates. We can’t be so reliant on the stock market and business to take care of the basics anymore because they are too vulnerable. We need to be able to adjust quickly to shocks without tanking the economy, because shocks are inevitable, especially in this more crowded and stressed environment. It is Canada's choice to do things to your own tune, just don't be surprised if it garners criticism at home and abroad. I am aroused by excellence wherever it is found, and have acknowledged as much many times in this forum when Canada has demonstrated such effort and results. Substituting alarm about allies vs. competition is not one of those efforts....it is making excuses. Quote This is the time to lean on the possibilities of automation to meet our needs and create wealth for all. It’s also time to move towards open source sharing of information on essential items like vaccines for pandemics. Online videoconferencing and data sharing will play a central role, as will low carbon footprint mass production and community development. We will have to become super light on our feet and more responsive in this new world or else events like natural disasters and pandemics will soon destroy us. Hopefully we learn sooner than later. If necessity is the mother of invention, we should see lots of inventiveness right now. Globalism has been a benefit and curse that has exposed weaknesses and undermined robust redundancies that are in need right now. Far worse calamities and wars were survived with less integration across borders. Wealth is available for those who seek it, but that won't be for all. Edited March 20, 2020 by bush_cheney2004 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeitgeist Posted March 20, 2020 Report Share Posted March 20, 2020 (edited) 5 hours ago, bush_cheney2004 said: Globalism has been a benefit and curse that has exposed weaknesses and undermined robust redundancies that are in need right now. Far worse calamities and wars were survived with less integration across borders. Wealth is available for those who seek it, but that won't be for all. While I think globalization has improved living standards and freedoms on the whole, we have outsourced too much. We should never lose our expertise and strength in key industries. It’s not just in the tech sector or ownership and development of resources. The city of Hamilton, for example, used to manufacture just about every modern convenience. I don’t think we saw the price of no longer manufacturing fridges and ovens. Now we’re seeing it with desperately needed medical supplies and medications. We must always be in a position to maintain and supply a diverse economy. We’re far too dependent on China. We’re too dependent on the US for our trade too, but culturally and economically we function as an interwoven domestic market and we have a level playing field. We need sterner rules for trade with low-wage, low-regulation countries or it will alway be difficult to maintain our own standards and self-suffiency, especially in times of crisis. This pandemic is not the first test and won’t be the last. Edited March 20, 2020 by Zeitgeist Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hardner Posted March 20, 2020 Report Share Posted March 20, 2020 33 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said: 1. While I think globalization has improved living standards and freedoms on the whole, we have outsourced to much. We should never lose our expertise and strength in key industries. 2. The city of Hamilton, for example, used to manufacture just about every modern convenience. I don’t think we saw the price of no longer manufacturing fridges and ovens. Now we’re seeing it with desperately needed medical supplies and medications. 3. We’re far too dependent on China. We’re too dependent on the US for our trade too, but culturally and economically we function as an interwoven domestic market and we have a level playing field. We need sterner rules for trade with low-wage, low-regulation countries or it will alway be difficult to maintain our own standards and self-suffiency, especially in times of crisis. This pandemic is not the first test and won’t be the last. 1. We product agriculture, finance and culture. I think that's fine. What else would you add ? 2. The economic advances of the last 30 years owe a lot to economic specialization due to global trade. If you want a Fridge and Oven factory in Hamilton, then I suspect nationalization might be the easiest way. Is that in play for you ? 3. We can watch the UK to see how well this approach works, I suppose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argus Posted March 20, 2020 Report Share Posted March 20, 2020 14 hours ago, Zeitgeist said: Why say shit like that? A desperate troll looking for attention? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeitgeist Posted March 20, 2020 Report Share Posted March 20, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, Argus said: A desperate troll looking for attention? BC gets plenty of attention and has delivered some zingers. I just don’t see the point in pitting our leaders against each other, especially right now. Trump represents an unsustainable old American Dream, but I think we’re all somewhat relieved that it can still exist, even if it’s an expensive proposition. Trudeau is the idealistic progressive who is unsustainably naive and vulnerable to attack from the fringe groups he has empowered. The two countries face many similar challenges but also some quite different ones, and our politics suit these different realities. I can see the public being fed up with both leaders by the time this mess peaks. Neither of them moved quickly enough. Edited March 20, 2020 by Zeitgeist Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted March 20, 2020 Report Share Posted March 20, 2020 3 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said: BC gets plenty of attention and has delivered some zingers. I just don’t see the point in pitting our leaders against each other, especially right now. Trump represents an unsustainable old American Dream, but I think we’re all somewhat relieved that it can still exist, even if it’s an expensive proposition. Trudeau is the idealistic progressive ... It's an old game here, one that has been going on for years. I am always up for another round with the 'murica bashers. But here is the thing about Trump....he is getting far more bandwidth in Canadian media than Trudeau is getting in American media for this outbreak. Trump's actions are being contrasted with Trudeau's in Canada, not the U.S. Some Canadians are comparing Trump's actions to Trudeau's on both sides of Canada's political fault lines...choosing sides. Why is that ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taxme Posted March 20, 2020 Report Share Posted March 20, 2020 21 hours ago, Dougie93 said: I was hedged for this eventuality, so I am sunning myself on my deck in my 12,500 sq ft backyard which is like my own private Idaho But I was going to do that anyways, I bought this property so I could live comfortably to the end of my days with no complaints at all, if there is where I ended up stuck That's the key, if you're going all in on a property, make sure you are happy to die there and that you will never have to sell into a down market. I hope that you bought plenty of toilet paper to wipe your butt with. After awhile, using leaves can hurt the butt hole. Of course at this time of the year there are no soft leaves out there so then I guess that the harsh leaves from those hardy winter plants will have to do, eh? Lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeitgeist Posted March 20, 2020 Report Share Posted March 20, 2020 1 hour ago, bush_cheney2004 said: It's an old game here, one that has been going on for years. I am always up for another round with the 'murica bashers. But here is the thing about Trump....he is getting far more bandwidth in Canadian media than Trudeau is getting in American media for this outbreak. Trump's actions are being contrasted with Trudeau's in Canada, not the U.S. Some Canadians are comparing Trump's actions to Trudeau's on both sides of Canada's political fault lines...choosing sides. Why is that ? I think you want the answer to be that Trump is the true ruler of Canada and Trudeau is more like a state Governor or worse, the pupppet of a protectorate. That’s not accurate but the presence of US power and influence is certainly ubiquitous in urban Canada. Trudeau only seems to assert Canadian independence on progressive issues, to contrast our position with the Republican American one. That is a mistake. Chrétien and Trudeau Senior asserted Canadian approaches on more issues. I think even Mulroney and Harper did this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dougie93 Posted March 20, 2020 Report Share Posted March 20, 2020 6 minutes ago, taxme said: I hope that you bought plenty of toilet paper to wipe your butt with. After awhile, using leaves can hurt the butt hole. Oh yeah, I've been fully stocked up for awhile now, I'm more of an economic Prepper, but I'm still a paramilitary Prepper as well Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taxme Posted March 20, 2020 Report Share Posted March 20, 2020 7 hours ago, bush_cheney2004 said: And even that was a struggle, only winning the day because Canadian Forces were deployed with inadequate equipment and logistics support. Everything seems to be a struggle when it comes to spending that kind of money. (BTW, those were USAF production aircraft that Canada cut in line to buy...not planned). It is Canada's choice to do things to your own tune, just don't be surprised if it garners criticism at home and abroad. I am aroused by excellence wherever it is found, and have acknowledged as much many times in this forum when Canada has demonstrated such effort and results. Substituting alarm about allies vs. competition is not one of those efforts....it is making excuses. Globalism has been a benefit and curse that has exposed weaknesses and undermined robust redundancies that are in need right now. Far worse calamities and wars were survived with less integration across borders. Wealth is available for those who seek it, but that won't be for all. If the world survived two world wars plus the numerous other small world wars and what mother nature has been thrown at us for centuries now, we should all survive this fake and phony globalist created pandemic. Now we have what they are calling "social distancing" where we are now told that we must now stay at least 6 feet away from the next guy/gal in front of you. I saw this happen to me in Save On foods last night. They had strips of tape on the floor at six feet apart. People were obeying those lines. What a bunch of lemmings there are in society today. Tell them lemmings to stay 12 feet apart and they will obey without question. There are just too many lemmings out there who will just do as they are told by their dear eladers and the media and never question as to what they are being told. Needless to say, I ignored the tape on the floor. I went right up to the person in front of me. Geez, I hope she did not mind? Lol. I also saw on TV yesterday where there was a convoy of army trucks rolling down some street in Italy supposedly carrying some dead bodies of people from the virus in them. This is starting to look like we are all playing a part of some kind of Armageddon movie being produced by Hollyweird and we all have become movie actors in this pandemic movie and action figures. I was even trying to look for Arnold Swartznigar to pop out somewhere in that convoy. Sadly, he did not! Well, at least I don't have to listen anymore about a Trump impeachment, global warming, or blockades anymore like I had to for months ad nausium. Those all appear to have been put on the back burner for now. They were all just more globalist bull chit anyway. What a joke this world has fast become. The sheeple will always be the sheeple because they keep allowing the elite, their political masters, and the media to keep making asses of them. When we see a rush on toilet paper by the lemmings when this is supposed to be a respiratory virus and not a crap making virus, you have to know that the world is truly going mad. I am in a panic right now. I cannot find any toilet paper anywhere thanks to that bunch of brainless lemmings. Aw well, what more can be said except that people should question more. Ya right, like that will ever happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taxme Posted March 20, 2020 Report Share Posted March 20, 2020 17 minutes ago, Dougie93 said: Oh yeah, I've been fully stocked up for awhile now, I'm more of an economic Prepper, but I'm still a paramilitary Prepper as well I have never tried using leaves. Have you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taxme Posted March 20, 2020 Report Share Posted March 20, 2020 22 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said: I think you want the answer to be that Trump is the true ruler of Canada and Trudeau is more like a state Governor or worse, the pupppet of a protectorate. That’s not accurate but the presence of US power and influence is certainly ubiquitous in urban Canada. Trudeau only seems to assert Canadian independence on progressive issues, to contrast our position with the Republican American one. That is a mistake. Chrétien and Trudeau Senior asserted Canadian approaches on more issues. I think even Mulroney and Harper did this. So just what did all those prime mistakes of Canada that you mentioned ever do for Canada or Canadians to try and help keep and make Canada great? I wish someone like you would be able to answer that question that I have asked so many members here before. No one seems to want to give me something. Maybe it is because they have not done all that much for Canada or Canadians. So, what say you? Will you too also run and hide or will you give me something to go on? you now have the floor. Over. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dougie93 Posted March 20, 2020 Report Share Posted March 20, 2020 10 minutes ago, taxme said: I have never tried using leaves. Have you? Nope, I was an Infantry Reconnaissance Patrolman, one man one kit, prepared for battle, comfortable to operate in the field indefinitely as necessary Ducimus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taxme Posted March 20, 2020 Report Share Posted March 20, 2020 1 hour ago, Zeitgeist said: BC gets plenty of attention and has delivered some zingers. I just don’t see the point in pitting our leaders against each other, especially right now. Trump represents an unsustainable old American Dream, but I think we’re all somewhat relieved that it can still exist, even if it’s an expensive proposition. Trudeau is the idealistic progressive who is unsustainably naive and vulnerable to attack from the fringe groups he has empowered. The two countries face many similar challenges but also some quite different ones, and our politics suit these different realities. I can see the public being fed up with both leaders by the time this mess peaks. Neither of them moved quickly enough. Well, it is for dam sure that your Canadian dear leaders do not seem to give all that much of a dam about all of those foreign criminal illegals crossing into Canada illegally from America every day. I mean really, what the hell kinds of diseases and viruses could all of them be bringing into Canada? Are you concerned at all? Our dear leaders want to shut down everything, except for those illegal entry points into Canada. The Canadian military should be defending our border from these criminal illegals. The Mounties are not doing a very good job of it. As a matter of fact they are there welcoming them all in with open arms. what a joke. Meanwhile our dear leader globalist Trudeau sits back in his paid for taxpayer home, and he hides from the public as much as he can. The guy knows that this pandemic is all a joke, and he is just going along with it. His wife has the bug like I have the bug. NOT. Talk about Trump, Trudeau or China all you want but you should be talking more about the border where all those who are in fear of this virus should be demanding that they do something about it all this illegal crossing going on. If you are taking this pandemic all for real than speak up or dry up about this virus. I am fed up watching it all being played on TV every minute of every hour of every day. What brainwashing going on here. It's downright pathetic indeed. Just my opinion of course. Works for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taxme Posted March 20, 2020 Report Share Posted March 20, 2020 (edited) 7 minutes ago, Dougie93 said: Nope, I was an Infantry Reconnaissance Patrolman, one man one kit, prepared for battle, comfortable to operate in the field indefinitely as necessary Ducimus Well, some of us may have to find out soon. Lol. Now do not forget that we now have in effect what is called "social distancing" where we must all now stay at least 6 feet away from the next guy or gal. How is that going to work on people who take the bus to get around? I guess that the buses will now have to be stopped from running. I mean what better way to spread this dreaded virus, eh? Edited March 20, 2020 by taxme Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dougie93 Posted March 20, 2020 Report Share Posted March 20, 2020 2 minutes ago, taxme said: Well, some of us may have to find out soon. Lol. You enjoy the protection of Her Majesty and so my protection as well, if you're in Wellington County Upper Canada and need help, let me know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taxme Posted March 20, 2020 Report Share Posted March 20, 2020 Just now, Dougie93 said: You enjoy the protection of Her Majesty and so my protection as well, if you're in Wellington County Upper Canada and need help, let me know. How is her Majesty going to stop me or anyone from getting this so called virus? By her making some kind of proclamation? I will do just fine here in the Lower Mainland of Vancouver. But if I do drop by, can you spare me a couple of rolls of toilet paper. It sure would be appreciated, pardner. Lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dougie93 Posted March 20, 2020 Report Share Posted March 20, 2020 4 minutes ago, taxme said: How is her Majesty going to stop me or anyone from getting this so called virus? By her making some kind of proclamation? I will do just fine here in the Lower Mainland of Vancouver. But if I do drop by, can you spare me a couple of rolls of toilet paper. It sure would be appreciated, pardner. Lol. I got it all, bro, I've even got the anti-malarial drug now, thanks to my Russian neighbors. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted March 21, 2020 Report Share Posted March 21, 2020 4 hours ago, Zeitgeist said: I think you want the answer to be that Trump is the true ruler of Canada and Trudeau is more like a state Governor or worse, the pupppet of a protectorate. That’s not accurate but the presence of US power and influence is certainly ubiquitous in urban Canada. Trudeau only seems to assert Canadian independence on progressive issues, to contrast our position with the Republican American one. That is a mistake. Chrétien and Trudeau Senior asserted Canadian approaches on more issues. I think even Mulroney and Harper did this. No, that is exactly the answer I don't want. Canada is an independent nation with its own leadership and values. Using Trump (or America) as a foil to define and fight domestic political battles only undermines Trudeau's relevance. Not since 9/11 has there been such focus on a closed border and stoppage of entry on either side, emphasizing that these are two different nations. Trump is not responsible for Canada...that is Trudeau's job. I would agree that several previous PMs had better defined and acted for Canadian policy more independently. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted March 21, 2020 Report Share Posted March 21, 2020 4 hours ago, taxme said: Well, at least I don't have to listen anymore about a Trump impeachment, global warming, or blockades anymore like I had to for months ad nausium. Those all appear to have been put on the back burner for now. Yes...all the previous bitching and moaning has been placed in proper perspective. The ironic thing is that GHG emissions are way down in virus stricken nations more than anything that the Paris Agreement could ever achieve. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taxme Posted March 21, 2020 Report Share Posted March 21, 2020 5 hours ago, Dougie93 said: I got it all, bro, I've even got the anti-malarial drug now, thanks to my Russian neighbors. Alrighty then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taxme Posted March 21, 2020 Report Share Posted March 21, 2020 1 hour ago, bush_cheney2004 said: Yes...all the previous bitching and moaning has been placed in proper perspective. The ironic thing is that GHG emissions are way down in virus stricken nations more than anything that the Paris Agreement could ever achieve. At least your leader Trump did the right thing and got out of the Paris Accord. our dear leader wan ts to stay in so he can blow more of our tax dollars on more liberal socialist bull chit. Just another globalist hoax being perpetrated on the sheeple of the world once again. When will those sheeple ever learn. If they are Canadian sheeple, then they will never learn. Just wait until the next created pandemic comes along. It will be nothing compared to this one, and believe me it will be coming one day. I can pretty much guarantee you that it will happen. Just wait and see. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taxme Posted March 21, 2020 Report Share Posted March 21, 2020 1 hour ago, bush_cheney2004 said: No, that is exactly the answer I don't want. Canada is an independent nation with its own leadership and values. Using Trump (or America) as a foil to define and fight domestic political battles only undermines Trudeau's relevance. Not since 9/11 has there been such focus on a closed border and stoppage of entry on either side, emphasizing that these are two different nations. Trump is not responsible for Canada...that is Trudeau's job. I would agree that several previous PMs had better defined and acted for Canadian policy more independently. At most times, i wish that Trump was the leader President of Canada. Just saying. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boges Posted March 21, 2020 Report Share Posted March 21, 2020 (edited) Approaching 20:1 cases between the countries and 20 times more deaths too. New York State and California are starting to look like Italy. Trump is tweeting premature hope about treatment before trials are even done. The only treatment is social distancing. Edited March 21, 2020 by Boges Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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