Panic, Ignorance, Shut Up Already

[OftenWrong]

7 hours ago, Moonbox said:

I don't think

Work on it some more.

Quote

Just because you agree with what they're doing doesn't mean you aren't watching them carefully.

I think people are disagreeing with what they say. Some people anyway. Today Friday the roads were busier than ever. Eventually a kind of virus fatigue could set in, people don't want to pay attention to the virus any more.

That is really the only way the virus will go away. Otherwise, it never does.

[Dougie93]

16 minutes ago, OftenWrong said:

The fellow has been on welfare all his life. You expect me to acknowledge that kind of scum?

I'm not opposed to the welfare, just the public sector unionized bureaucracy which goes with it, I'm not opposed to Milton Friedman's negative income tax to replace them

There is a right wing to the Antiwork Movement as well

[Dougie93]

Even less work is an improvement on the status quo

My wife doesn't even have to get out of her pajamas to work right now, she just goes straight from the bedroom into her office across the hall

And she's converted a guestroom into a gym next door, it's like a space pod.

I'm turning the engines over on all our cars because we're not using them at all

Edited March 28, 2020 by Dougie93

[eyeball]

1 hour ago, Dougie93 said:

There is a right wing to the Antiwork Movement as well

The what? 

[Dougie93]

16 minutes ago, eyeball said:

The what? 

Anti Work 

Unemployment for all, not just the rich.

[OftenWrong]

11 hours ago, Dougie93 said:

I'm not opposed to the welfare

I suppose it's necessary for those people who are not able bodied. Mentally, physically. Guess you're right, poor little eyeball needs his monthly issue of government provolone.

[eyeball]

34 minutes ago, OftenWrong said:

I suppose it's necessary for those people who are not able bodied. Mentally, physically.

We all do what we can. There's grunts and cannon fodder like you on the front and thinkers and leaders like me advising and directing things from behind the lines.  I worked my up the ranks from deckhand to mate then captain there was some discussion about managing operations before all this which is sorta like an admiral in my line of work so.

You work hard and show interest and maybe you can amount to something one day too.

Quote

Guess you're right, poor little eyeball needs his monthly issue of government provolone.

I'm a parmisan man myself.

Edited March 28, 2020 by eyeball

[Dougie93]

1 hour ago, OftenWrong said:

I suppose it's necessary for those people who are not able bodied. Mentally, physically. Guess you're right, poor little eyeball needs his monthly issue of government provolone.

Money is imaginary, the amount is not as important as the velocity, poor people spend all the money you give them, which is good for the economy, including for the rich

[eyeball]

17 minutes ago, Dougie93 said:

Money is imaginary, the amount is not as important as the velocity, poor people spend all the money you give them, which is good for the economy, including for the rich

What's phenomenal is how quick the rush is to dole out lolly to the rich when the shit hits the economic fan. Apparently thats even better for the poor than the other way around.

[Dougie93]

58 minutes ago, eyeball said:

What's phenomenal is how quick the rush is to dole out lolly to the rich when the shit hits the economic fan. Apparently thats even better for the poor than the other way around.

The rich simply sit on the money.  The poor spend it right away.  Money as blood, it's all about the flow. 

Canada is not doing enough, just keeping them hanging on is not enough, to save the economy they have to put enough money in the hands of the poor to create a surplus

[Dougie93]

In the middle of a war with a blitzkrieg at the gates is not the time to be conservative, that's when you warm it all up and go big

I wouldn't give people a thousand dollars a month I would give them a thousand dollars a week

Don't worry about inflation, this is a deflationary spiral, and there is martial law, so the government can control prices at gunpoint

This is biological warfare, peacetime rules go out the window until the blitzkrieg has been weathered

Edited March 28, 2020 by Dougie93

[Dougie93]

I have no trepidation about martial law, this is not the time when you want Zoolander calling the shot

This is the sort of situation, with your hearths & homes in the breach, where you want Johnny Vance in charge

He's scary af when he's pissed off and he knows how to get shit done, fast

[Marocc]

On 3/23/2020 at 10:13 PM, betsy said:

 

Did you hear about the returning snow birds?  Ford was talking about this today.  They go straight to grocery stores instead of self-isolation!

Are they supposed to starve? Maybe they go to the grocery in order to self-isolate.

[bush_cheney2004]

6 hours ago, eyeball said:

What's phenomenal is how quick the rush is to dole out lolly to the rich when the shit hits the economic fan. Apparently thats even better for the poor than the other way around.

 

Perhaps you need a reminder after all these years:    Economics trumps Virtue

Even the money doled out to the poor eventually makes its way back to the "rich", where it comes from to begin with.

[Army Guy]

4 hours ago, Dougie93 said:

I have no trepidation about martial law, this is not the time when you want Zoolander calling the shot

This is the sort of situation, with your hearths & homes in the breach, where you want Johnny Vance in charge

He's scary af when he's pissed off and he knows how to get shit done, fast

Maybe if Justin ever gives him back his balls, he is not the leader I knew, when he commanded the 2 RCR.

[Dougie93]

20 minutes ago, Army Guy said:

Maybe if Justin ever gives him back his balls, he is not the leader I knew, when he commanded the 2 RCR.

He was always an ambitious political operator as I remember him, when he was DCO of 1st Battalion

[Dougie93]

His father was after all Lt. General Jack Vance, VCDS

So it's not like he fell off the Cabbage Truck at the gates of RMC

[Dougie93]

He did ream me out something fierce once,

DCO in a fury coming down on me at the double time.   Visions of detention barracks in my head.

I don't take it personally though, he was right, I was wrong, I was out of line, and I got what I deserved

I was young, I know better now

[eyeball]

2 hours ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

Perhaps you need a reminder after all these years:    Economics trumps Virtue

I said the rush to dole the actuality is another thing. It's pretty clear virtue's star is focused like a laser-beam on poor hard-done by capitalists trying to make a buck.  Doug Ford sounds like he's just about ready to intervene in market forces by firing squad.

Quote

 

Doug Ford declares war on price gougers

'I have zero tolerance for this kind of nonsense,' Ford said  in a press conference. 'We are coming after you and we will shut you down'

https://nationalpost.com/news/canada/doug-ford-declares-war-on-price-gougers-taking-advantage-of-covid-19-outbreak  

 

 

[Army Guy]

14 hours ago, Dougie93 said:

His father was after all Lt. General Jack Vance, VCDS

So it's not like he fell off the Cabbage Truck at the gates of RMC

So your saying he came from good genes, I'm not entirely convinced that most if not all of his decisions are colored liberal to appease his masters or because he loves his job and wants to stay in it......one has to take that into context, also he has had 5 VCDS since he has been appointed, one of which the world knows he threw under the bus, another quit out of protest, does not paint a good picture on his leadership.. No major procurements unless you count that F888ed up TPAV , he had gone to the media and quote DND does not need more funding they can't spend what they have now...in my eyes that is a failure in leadership.. his biggest legacy was OP Honor, don't get me wrong in some places within the military it was needed, but the program failed to accomplish it's most of its goals and like everything DND does they took it to far to the left.... He is by no means a Hillier

Edited March 29, 2020 by Army Guy

[Dougie93]

18 minutes ago, Army Guy said:

So your saying he came from good genes, I'm not entirely convinced that most if not all of his decisions are colored liberal to appease his masters or because he loves his job and wants to stay in it......one has to take that into context, also he has had 5 VCDS since he has been appointed, one of which the world knows he threw under the bus, another quit out of protest, does not paint a good picture on his leadership.. No major procurements unless you count that F888ed up TPAV , he had gone to the media and quote DND does not need more funding they can't spend what they have now...in my eyes that is a failure in leadership.. his biggest legacy was OP Honor, don't get me wrong in some places within the military it was needed, but the program failed to accomplish it's most of its goals and like everything DND does they took it to far to the left.... He is by no means a Hillier

He's not a battle buddy, he's an officer, I don't expect the officers to not throw me under the bus

Mission before men, the role of the officer is not to protect me, the role of the officer is to fight and win the battle

Master Jacks are expendable downrange as necessary

Edited March 29, 2020 by Dougie93

[Rue]

I think what this is all coming down to is how long can we expect people to stay home as a response to the Corona Virus whether it be in Canada, the US or anywhere else.

What we also know from clear and present working examples from Singapore, Taiwan and South Korea, is simply telling people to stay home is NOT the solution.

I really do think the longer our government or any government tells us we must stay home and provides imdefinite time limits such as "weeks", "months", that kind of approach will create a lack of confidence in the economy and in the long term do more damage than we seek to prevent short term and an article that summarizes this is:

https://www.statnews.com/2020/02/28/quarantine-coronavirus-make-that-unnecessary/

It does not as some have tried to postulate on this issue present the issue as black and white, i.e., you either stay at home, or if you return to work you kill people.

Here is another example that explains why isolation/quarantine has its limitations:

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/quarantines-wont-save-us-from-coronavirus/

Here is some historic perspective on quarantines:

https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2020/01/26/799324436/a-history-of-quarantines-from-bubonic-plague-to-typhoid-mary

Here is an explanation why travel bans don't work:

https://www.wired.com/story/travel-bans-and-quarantines-wont-stop-coronavirus/

Here is another article explaining limitations with quarantines and referring to the WHO for those of who you have faith in them:

https://www.salon.com/2020/03/12/why-a-coronavirus-quarantine-in-the-us-is-a-bad-idea_partner/

Here is Gov. Cuomo of New York being honest talking about how do we modify the strategy to get people to go back to work:

https://nypost.com/2020/03/26/cuomo-admits-that-quarantine-may-have-backfired-in-some-cases/

The last cite is I would suggest where politicians, planners, are now headed asking that question.

It is a difficult one. How will governments plan getting people back to work balancing it with protecting the vulnerable and not triggering floods to hospitals.

I think that dialogue needs to be cultivated now and we all need to wrap our heads around the realization staying at home is short term and the longer we stay home the more problems will force us not to that are more dangerous to us all than any exposure to the virus.

I most certainly reject the simplistic stereotyping of some that say if we have concerns about the long term impact of shutting down the economy we care more about money than people.

I also get that when people feel threatened the phenomena called "cacooning" makes people feel safe. The problem is recreating your embryo or bubble to block out the world is regressive  and mentally unhealthy. It AVOIDS looking the boogy man in the face and getting over the fear by focusing on things that need to be done not avoided fro being done.

I myself think our politicians simply read scripts they are given and because of the vast density of inter-connected networks of information and policy making, no politician has the control we think they do.

Some of us think if we give government draconian powers to arrest and strip us of our civil rights, this will give them the control.

I caution dialogue calling for totalitarianism and fascism and the kind of measures that will NOT be removed once this virus moves on and I caution against dialogue that makes it seem we can function without working or that isolation by itself is a panacea and if you stay home long enough poof the virus goes away.

So in regards to specific politicians like Trump, Johnson,  Trudeau, to me they are mouth pieces. I am focused on reading what immunologists are finding day by day as to what may and may not work and why things in South Korea, Taiwan and Singapore are showing where we all must head in the days to come in terms of using a variable and wide ranging approach that properly identifies the contagious and contains them while allowing the rest of society to get back to what we need to do to function.

Edited March 29, 2020 by Rue

[Army Guy]

16 minutes ago, Dougie93 said:

He's not a battle buddy, he's an officer, I don't expect the officers to not throw me under the bus

Mission before men, the role of the officer is not to protect me, the role of the officer is to fight and win the battle

Master Jacks are expendable downrange as necessary

I have a different expectation, I have known plenty of officers that would have enough character not to throw anyone under the bus... And while being CDS I would have thought he was to be beyond reproach...If they fu** up would stand up and say so, and await punishment, what ever that maybe... It is the SRNCO's job to mentor junior officers to ensure they had the integrity and honor to hold the job... And he had some of the best SRNCO's in the business, some where down the line he forgot all that training and took a turn on the wrong path...by putting himself first, instead of the family business. 

 

[Dougie93]

34 minutes ago, Army Guy said:

I have a different expectation, I have known plenty of officers that would have enough character not to throw anyone under the bus... And while being CDS I would have thought he was to be beyond reproach...If they fu** up would stand up and say so, and await punishment, what ever that maybe... It is the SRNCO's job to mentor junior officers to ensure they had the integrity and honor to hold the job... And he had some of the best SRNCO's in the business, some where down the line he forgot all that training and took a turn on the wrong path...by putting himself first, instead of the family business. 

 

The CDS is a political role as well as a military role, the CDS is a political appointment, if the PM wants somebody thrown under the bus, that's an order

Like I'm a Mcpl (ret.) instead of a Sgt (ret) because I got thrown under the bus, so I know how it goes in the RCR, plenty of politics at the tactical level too

[eyeball]

1 hour ago, Rue said:

It is a difficult one. How will governments plan getting people back to work balancing it with protecting the vulnerable and not triggering floods to hospitals.

With testing for immunity so the immune can get back to work and hold things together long enough for a vaccine.

 

Quote

I also get that when people feel threatened the phenomena called "cacooning" makes people feel safe. The problem is recreating your embryo or bubble to block out the world is regressive  and mentally unhealthy. It AVOIDS looking the boogy man in the face and getting over the fear by focusing on things that need to be done not avoided fro being done.

OTOH passing thru a bottleneck of soul-searching might reveal how much that boogyman is us. Being cooped up could be the best opportunity humanity has had to deal with its issues.

Maybe there's more to life than money after all.

Edited March 29, 2020 by eyeball