Panic, Ignorance, Shut Up Already

[dpwozney]

On 4/1/2020 at 12:24 AM, Shady said:

... Unfortunately people will die, but the common flu also kills tens of thousands in North America every flu season. ...

About twenty people in Canada died each day, on average, from influenza or pneumonia in recent past years, according to this Statistics Canada link.

About five people in Canada, per day on average, are reported to have died with this novel coronavirus, from February 15 to April 3, 2020.

[OftenWrong]

2 hours ago, eyeball said:

We haven't seen anything yet.  It was almost a couple months ago I remarked blah blah friggin blah

All I remember from you a couple months ago was cheering that the virus is destroying our country. You were dancing giddy that you could get free beer and wine. Well, look at you now.

[OftenWrong]

2 hours ago, eyeball said:

Blah

Now you now why they’re calling in the army, to “help fight the coronavirus”.

[eyeball]

11 minutes ago, OftenWrong said:

All I remember from you a couple months ago was cheering that the virus is destroying our country. You were dancing giddy that you could get free beer and wine. Well, look at you now.

It was barely a couple weeks ago and it was beer and popcorn.  You're so giddy with panic at the thought of socialism you can't think straight.

[eyeball]

13 minutes ago, OftenWrong said:

Now you now why they’re calling in the army, to “help fight the coronavirus”.

I knew why they were doing that months ago.

[Rue]

4 hours ago, dpwozney said:

About twenty people in Canada died each day, on average, from influenza or pneumonia in recent past years, according to this Statistics Canada link.

About five people in Canada, per day on average, are reported to have died with this novel coronavirus, from February 15 to April 3, 2020.

Your comparison with respect although appreciated forctyevpointvyou are trying to make  is not something to rely on. We do not have sufficient data on this virus yet. The stats we now use rely on a snapshot time period not accounting for the peak of the virus yet to come  or the number of cases never reported and people have  recovered from. 

Incorrect application and extrapolation of patterns from inaccurate stats are tempting to use to make false assumptions about death rates from.

Reported death rates by the way may include people who had the virus and died, but had their infections before they got the virus and so should not but are included in the death rates.

Its friggin complicated. Bill Gates Foundation has done all kinds of projection analysis of possible patterns. They seem to suggest if we can stay distanced another 6 weeks, we could get a peak in mid May..interestingly the death rates have to go up but so are recovery rates as different combos of medication  being tried become prove more effective..chin up ..

Go back and examine the polio crisis in the early 60's, or the initial reaction to aids, Ebola, Zika, West Nile, Sars, Legionairre's disease you can see a hint what is to come in the days ahead.

 

 

Edited April 3, 2020 by Rue

[Rue]

2 hours ago, eyeball said:

It was barely a couple weeks ago and it was beer and popcorn.  You're so giddy with panic at the thought of socialism you can't think straight.

Again can you explain how it's socialism and not simply totalitarianism. Using your analogy, Pinochet, Erdogan, Ghaddafi, Kim Jung, Stalin, Mao, Hitler, Franco, are socialists .

[marcus]

11 hours ago, dpwozney said:

About twenty people in Canada died each day, on average, from influenza or pneumonia in recent past years, according to this Statistics Canada link.

About five people in Canada, per day on average, are reported to have died with this novel coronavirus, from February 15 to April 3, 2020.

3 points in response to that:

1) One thing to keep in mind is that those with weak immune systems, who have COVID-19 have a much higher chance of needing to go to the hospital to receive care. Our healthcare system cannot handle that. This is the biggest problem around the world.

2) Also, an average patient with COVID-19 stays at the hospital for almost 2 weeks. A common flu patient who goes to the hospital stays for just a 3 days. Again, this shows the strain on the healthcare system.

3) Another point: The rate of death increases dramatically within a short period of time. So it may be 1 or 2 on February 15th and then it jumps to over 100 close to its peak. It doesn't stay constant. So the five people per day average does not reflect the reality of how harmful this virus is.

Edited April 4, 2020 by marcus

[OftenWrong]

7 hours ago, eyeball said:

I knew why they were doing that months ago.

Sure you did. You knew all this would happen, which is why you celebrated the virus in your thread, cheering and making jokes about how good it is while people were dying. Have you no shame? It's not even funny anymore, I tell you.

Edited April 4, 2020 by OftenWrong

[eyeball]

5 hours ago, OftenWrong said:

Sure you did. You knew all this would happen.

I never claimed to know how weighty the straw that would break the camel's back would be but I've known for years what would make it way harder on us and more difficult to deal with - polarization and partisan hatred.  We've steered ourselves into a position from which the ability of cooperating our way out of it is as crippled as the ability of Babel's citizens trying to build their tower to Heaven.  If you've ever wondered why I've signed off on so many posts around here with a "welcome to Planet Babel" that's it in a nutshell.  I knew I could count on people like you to try and and turn the worst crisis of our times into a politicized shitshow and boy did you ever deliver. At least the people of Babel tried to cooperate.

 

Quote

which is why you celebrated the virus in your thread, cheering and making jokes about how good it is while people were dying.

No I was making jokes about you downplaying it as an excuse to get all pious and indignant about people and especially communists getting free stuff.

You really sounded quite proud yourself.

 

Quote

Have you no shame?

What I don't have is the $12,000 or so I spent getting my mom thru the last year and settled into a senior home or the "incubator" as she calls it. You can thank her for my funny bone and bum ticker.  About a week after that I got laid off and watched about another $12,000 of my own bookings evaporate plus my CT-Scan came back and my cardiologist doubled my blood pressure medication.  I know I should have been more like you and manned up and ignored the lifeline that was made available but you nailed it, I'm just scum.

 

Quote

It's not even funny anymore, I tell you.   

You always have been a bit of a sourpuss but what do you mean it exactly? The rise of Kumbaya, the end of the Before Times, something more personally tragic?  I'd never laugh at you over something like that, with you perhaps but never at you.

You know what's really not funny, that this virus is striking humanity at a time when public mistrust, government incompetence and ideological recrimination are at their peak of imperfection.  The people of Babel were light years ahead of us. 

Edited April 4, 2020 by eyeball

[Rue]

19 hours ago, marcus said:

3 points in response to that:

1) One thing to keep in mind is that those with weak immune systems, who have COVID-19 have a much higher chance of needing to go to the hospital to receive care. Our healthcare system cannot handle that. This is the biggest problem around the world.

2) Also, an average patient with COVID-19 stays at the hospital for almost 2 weeks. A common flu patient who goes to the hospital stays for just a 3 days. Again, this shows the strain on the healthcare system.

3) Another point: The rate of death increases dramatically within a short period of time. So it may be 1 or 2 on February 15th and then it jumps to over 100 close to its peak. It doesn't stay constant. So the five people per day average does not reflect the reality of how harmful this virus is.

..both ..we know its damn lethal for some...but non lethal for others...what it does show and I am sure we all agree is how it presents serious challenges if not properly prepared for..its shown our pandemic planning was not prepared for this and there are serious implications relying too heavily on other countries to produce certain goods..

Edited April 4, 2020 by Rue

[Rue]

8 hours ago, eyeball said:

I never claimed to know how weighty the straw that would break the camel's back would be but I've known for years what would make it way harder on us and more difficult to deal with - polarization and partisan hatred.  We've steered ourselves into a position from which the ability of cooperating our way out of it is as crippled as the ability of Babel's citizens trying to build their tower to Heaven.  If you've ever wondered why I've signed off on so many posts around here with a "welcome to Planet Babel" that's it in a nutshell.  I knew I could count on people like you to try and and turn the worst crisis of our times into a politicized shitshow and boy did you ever deliver. At least the people of Babel tried to cooperate.

 

No I was making jokes about you downplaying it as an excuse to get all pious and indignant about people and especially communists getting free stuff.

You really sounded quite proud yourself.

 

What I don't have is the $12,000 or so I spent getting my mom thru the last year and settled into a senior home or the "incubator" as she calls it. You can thank her for my funny bone and bum ticker.  About a week after that I got laid off and watched about another $12,000 of my own bookings evaporate plus my CT-Scan came back and my cardiologist doubled my blood pressure medication.  I know I should have been more like you and manned up and ignored the lifeline that was made available but you nailed it, I'm just scum.

 

You always have been a bit of a sourpuss but what do you mean it exactly? The rise of Kumbaya, the end of the Before Times, something more personally tragic?  I'd never laugh at you over something like that, with you perhaps but never at you.

You know what's really not funny, that this virus is striking humanity at a time when public mistrust, government incompetence and ideological recrimination are at their peak of imperfection.  The people of Babel were light years ahead of us. 

Our governments were screwing up long before this virus and will continue to do so long after it's over just like we all do...the media will focus on the fuck ups but not the positive that will come out of this..but we will learn from this...you sound genuinely depressed chin up man...Often is actually not a sour puss and neither are you...you disagree because you both are idealists and care...that is all...damn I am turning into Dorothy from the Wizard of Oz...Regards, Flying Monkey no. 13

Edited April 4, 2020 by Rue

[eyeball]

2 hours ago, Rue said:

Our governments were screwing up long before this virus and will continue to do so long after it's over just like we all do...the media will focus on the fuck ups but not the positive that will come out of this..but we will learn from this..

I agree but it'll be like a drunk hitting rock bottom.

 

Quote

..you sound genuinely depressed chin up man...

I'm really not that depressed at all to tell you the truth Rue. I think I would be though if I found myself unable to understand or grasp some of the enormity of what we're up against.  The political and economic eight-balls we're behind are one thing but another has to be the sheer weight of deluded thinking that is compounding so much effort to contain panic. Take mom for example, we're talking on Skype the other day and she's says "I just heard they've shut down the Internet"! But that's mom, shes almost 90 and pretty harmless, fringy and funny compared to the darker reaches of the imagining that's going on these days.

    

Quote

Often is actually not a sour puss and neither are you...you disagree because you both are idealists and care...

I don't know, I think its simply because he believes I subscribe to Pol Pot.

 

Quote

that is all...damn I am turning into Dorothy from the Wizard of Oz...Regards, Flying Monkey no. 13

Regards yourself and stay safe.

Edited April 4, 2020 by eyeball

[Marocc]

On 3/31/2020 at 12:34 AM, bcsapper said:

I had heard that, but saw no confirmation.  Do you have a cite?

https://www.forbes.com/sites/brucelee/2020/03/15/can-you-get-infected-by-coronavirus-twice-how-does-covid-19-immunity-work/

"Can You Get Coronavirus Twice? How Long Are You Immune After COVID-19?"  

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8055857/Coronavirus-patient-recovered-disease-tests-positive-four-days-later.html

"Coronavirus patient who recovered from the disease and then passed two-week quarantine tests POSITIVE four days later" 

https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1254199/bbc-coronavirus-uk-latest-reinfection-symptoms-advice-death-toll-latest-update

"BBC coronavirus alert: COVID-19 can be caught TWICE as expert warns 'immunity can wane'" 

https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2020/02/covid-vaccine/607000/

"You’re Likely to Get the Coronavirus..... "

"... The emerging consensus among epidemiologists is that the most likely outcome of this outbreak is a"new seasonal disease—a fifth “endemic” coronavirus. With the other four, people are not known to develop long-lasting immunity... "

[Marocc]

On 4/3/2020 at 7:34 PM, dpwozney said:

About twenty people in Canada died each day, on average, from influenza or pneumonia in recent past years, according to this Statistics Canada link.

About five people in Canada, per day on average, are reported to have died with this novel coronavirus, from February 15 to April 3, 2020.

Is it true every six days someone in Canada kills their spouse?

[Argus]

On 4/3/2020 at 12:34 PM, dpwozney said:

About twenty people in Canada died each day, on average, from influenza or pneumonia in recent past years, according to this Statistics Canada link.

About five people in Canada, per day on average, are reported to have died with this novel coronavirus, from February 15 to April 3, 2020.

This is not a fair comparison. First, because the virus is just ramping up now. Second, because the growth of the virus is being hindered by the most drastic quarantine in our history. How well do you think the flu would spread under similar conditions? I bet there are almost no cases of the flu in hospital now.

Edited April 5, 2020 by Argus

[dialamah]

58 minutes ago, Argus said:

I bet there are almost no cases of the flu in hospital now.

Can't speak to that, but my partner had to go to the ER for a non-covid related issue last week.  Nobody waiting in emergency or in triage.  At the  very least, this is an indication of how many people unnecessarily visit ER on any given day.   

[Marocc]

5 minutes ago, dialamah said:

Can't speak to that, but my partner had to go to the ER for a non-covid related issue last week.  Nobody waiting in emergency or in triage.  At the  very least, this is an indication of how many people unnecessarily visit ER on any given day.   

It's not because doctors have expressed worry over how many people who need immediate treatment do not show up to their appointments even though they should and I have seen plenty of people complaining of issues that call for seeing a doctor, but they don't go because corona something.

[dialamah]

9 minutes ago, Marocc said:

It's not because doctors have expressed worry over how many people who need immediate treatment do not show up to their appointments 

You don't make appointments to go to wait in hospital emergency.   If people aren't showing up to their scheduled appointments with their physician, they may end up at emergency, for sure.  But here at least, people go to emergency because they don't have a family physician and don't want to go to a walk-in clinic, or because they don't want to take time off work to go to their family physician, or because they suddenly just want to check something out that they've been living with successfully for several days or weeks.  Right now, people seem to be using emergency for what it was originally intended - emergencies, rather than an off-hours walk-in clinic.  

[Argus]

1 hour ago, dialamah said:

You don't make appointments to go to wait in hospital emergency.   If people aren't showing up to their scheduled appointments with their physician, they may end up at emergency, for sure. 

It would be a mistake to presume people are not avoiding the hospitals for fear of catching the virus. They certainly are. You can put off going for necessary medical care for quite a while, depending on what the issue is. Poor people or people who can't afford the deductibles on their insurance do it all the time down south.

[Rue]

3 hours ago, Marocc said:

https://www.forbes.com/sites/brucelee/2020/03/15/can-you-get-infected-by-coronavirus-twice-how-does-covid-19-immunity-work/

"Can You Get Coronavirus Twice? How Long Are You Immune After COVID-19?"  

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8055857/Coronavirus-patient-recovered-disease-tests-positive-four-days-later.html

"Coronavirus patient who recovered from the disease and then passed two-week quarantine tests POSITIVE four days later" 

https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1254199/bbc-coronavirus-uk-latest-reinfection-symptoms-advice-death-toll-latest-update

"BBC coronavirus alert: COVID-19 can be caught TWICE as expert warns 'immunity can wane'" 

https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2020/02/covid-vaccine/607000/

"You’re Likely to Get the Coronavirus..... "

"... The emerging consensus among epidemiologists is that the most likely outcome of this outbreak is a"new seasonal disease—a fifth “endemic” coronavirus. With the other four, people are not known to develop long-lasting immunity... "

Careful. People reinfected do not transmit the virus let alone get sick.  There is no proof of that....so it's still to early to make the conclusions you are that reinfection is even an issue..also as other posters have said testing findings may be inaccurate..so slow down..we do not necessarily know the true rates of infection let alone reinfection..and as a general rule reinfected people are not automatically contagious..

Edited April 5, 2020 by Rue

[dpwozney]

On 4/5/2020 at 10:32 AM, Argus said:

... ... I bet there are almost no cases of the flu in hospital now.

Are cases of the flu now being relabelled as cases of COVID-19?

Anyways, about ten people in Canada, per day on average, are now reported to have died with this novel coronavirus, from February 15 through April 10, 2020.

[Rue]

15 hours ago, dpwozney said:

Are cases of the flu now being relabelled as cases of COVID-19?

Anyways, about ten people in Canada, per day on average, are now reported to have died with this novel coronavirus, from February 15 through April 10, 2020.

Sometimes erroneously yes. Lots of confusion on how to report deaths right now because we do not have the time to properly do pathological exams in sufficient numbers to lend to meaningful and accurate stats from which to extrapolate death rates.

[Marocc]

On 4/5/2020 at 10:41 PM, Rue said:

Careful. People reinfected do not transmit the virus let alone get sick.  There is no proof of that....so it's still to early to make the conclusions you are that reinfection is even an issue..also as other posters have said testing findings may be inaccurate..so slow down..we do not necessarily know the true rates of infection let alone reinfection..and as a general rule reinfected people are not automatically contagious..

By now we know you were wrong.

[Rue]

3 hours ago, Marocc said:

By now we know you were wrong.

Who is "we".? 

Do  provide your data of how any infected let alone reinfected person have transmitted covid 19.   With inaccurate testing to identify who has it we can not know for sure.

You assume because someone is reinfected or infected they automatically pass on the virus. Bull shit. They may not for many reasons including self containment or not having sufficient quantities to pass it on.

Many viruses have contagious and not contagious phases. Until further studies are known we do not know.

In fact reinfected may very well have sufficient anti bodies to prevent it being passed...that is being researched. There is no hard data to say either way definitively or in what cases.

You used thecsordcwe in reference to yourself...by  your plurality...do you mean  Harry666, Neil Austen, Tdot?

Edited April 19, 2020 by Rue