Warning to All MLW Members - Fear and the Cronavirus

Yzermandius19 · March 16, 2020

4 minutes ago, ProudConservative said:

Why don't you joint Greta Thunberg, and having a celebration, since your priorities will cull the human population.

You are talking out of your ass, SIFCLF. You are acting far more like Greta Thunberg with your sky is falling chicken little faggot schtick than I am.

Edited March 16, 2020 by Yzermandius19

Posted March 16, 2020 · March 16, 2020

I mean army guy said, it's just 3.5% of the population, cancer kills more. That's why I have no respect for the guy.

Yzermandius19 · March 16, 2020

8 minutes ago, ProudConservative said:

I mean army guy said, it's just 3.5% of the population, cancer kills more. That's why I have no respect for the guy.

I have no respect for people who think this virus is the end of the world, and the governments need to be even more draconian in their measures than they already have been. You might feel safer because of a misguided faith in government intervention to effectively address the issue, but you aren't actually making anyone any safer by holding to that foolish belief.

So you can stop pretending to have the moral high ground on army guy, because you don't. He knows far more effective ways to address this situation than you ever will, so in the end his strategy would save far more lives than yours, yet you want to act like he's the one who wants people to die? Hilarious.

Edited March 16, 2020 by Yzermandius19

Posted March 16, 2020 · March 16, 2020

3 minutes ago, Yzermandius19 said:

I have no respect for people who think this virus is the end of the world, and the governments need to be even more draconian in their measures than they already have been. You might feel safer because of a misguided faith in government intervention to effectively address the issue, but you aren't actually making anyone any safer by holding to that foolish belief.

Again... you're completely ignorant.. Getting Dr's to wear biosuits, and the general public to wear Masks seems to be working in Hong Kong.

By allowing people to go around unprotected, you just guarantee mass infections and martial law. The very thing you want to prevent.

Yzermandius19 · March 16, 2020

4 minutes ago, ProudConservative said:

Again... you're completely ignorant.. Getting Dr's to wear biosuits, and the general public to wear Masks seems to be working in Hong Kong.

Again you're completely ignorant, Hong Kong's success is not because of the reasons you think it is. The public wearing masks is not what is working, you just think it is because you don't what works and fill in the rest with wishful thinking.

Edited March 16, 2020 by Yzermandius19

Posted March 16, 2020 · March 16, 2020

1 minute ago, Yzermandius19 said:

Again you're completely ignorant, Hong Kong's success is not because of the reasons you think it is. The public wearing masks is not what is working.

Can someone else help me with this idiot? I need some sleep.

Yzermandius19 · March 16, 2020

4 minutes ago, ProudConservative said:

Can someone else help me with this idiot? I need some sleep.

You see pictures of people in Hong Kong wearing masks in public, and just assume it's effective because Hong Kong response in general has been effective, but correlation does not equal causation, and just because you see people wearing masks, doesn't mean that is the effective measures they are employing.

Again if you knew anything about how Hong Kong is handling the virus, you wouldn't attribute their success to the public wearing masks. In fact, you are the only person I see doing that, I've heard no one else even suggest that is the reason why Hong Kong has been successful, aside from you.

Edited March 16, 2020 by Yzermandius19

Charles Anthony · March 16, 2020

Folks,

Avoid personal attacks.

Rue · March 16, 2020

2 hours ago, ProudConservative said:

Let me explain exponential growth. If you start with 100 people and a virus grows by 2% a day, you get 137 723 cases after one year.

If the virus grows by 4%, you get 164 853 281 cases after one year.

So by having an infection rate that's twice as high, you end up with the same amount of cases, multiplied by 1196.

If the mask reduce the infection rate by 50%... you end up saving more than 99.9% who would otherwise become infected infected.

That's why a virus that kills 50% of the population is a lot less scary, than a virus that kills 5% of the population that is twice as contagious.

You just illustrated yet again you do not understand how growth rates of viruses are extrapolated to come up with analysis of future patterns of increase or decrease. It's so bloody stupid what you pass off at this point it's hard not to have and show contempt not pity for you.Your ignorance is based on your inability to read and extrapolate and refusal to. You are provide a classic case of someone who panics and closes his mind to anything that does not reflect back your anxiety. The moderator saysx void the personal attacks but it is very hard to avoid that at times when people panic. Sometimes good slap in the face is what they need.

Can you instead of ignoring how disease rates are properly projected at least once make an effort to try find out how its done.

As well when you pass off false assumptions as to extrapolating death rates, the effect of masks, what is going on in Hong Kong, etc., research what you falsely pass off as fact.

All you have done is evidence you are in some sort of panic and have suspended any kind of rational thinking.

People like you are dangerous. You thrash out and try pull everyone down with you. Viruses are not the problem, hysterical people are.

Edited March 16, 2020 by Rue

Rue · March 16, 2020

On 3/15/2020 at 2:05 PM, kactus said:

How so? Isn't it the case that the elderly's immune system with pre existing condition is already compromised and they are more vulnerable to die from the virus? The British government has explicitly said in a statement that UK has entered a delay phase to help ease the strain on NHS until summer. In doing so, he wants people to catch to virus and become immune to the virus. The elderlies are vulnerable and will die in the process. My point is that whilst the objective is to flatten the curve a lot of of elderly people will lose their lives.

No they will not. Try use common sense. Old people and immune compromised people do not automatically die when you or they catch a cold or flu. Immune defficient people and the elderly live daily with the reality of catching an infection from far more than just the Corona virus. Think just once.

This virus has not changed a damn thing. It is just another. It is not special. The best way to deal with a virus if it's not serious which this one is not is in fact to let people catch it and get over it.

In fact it now appears many have had it and got over it but the true turn overrate has not been accurately documented meaning the info we have has wrongfully distorted fatality rates.

More to the point the same infections that piggy back on this virus have not suddenly appeared.

They are what are called opportunistic infections. They would have presented themselves with common colds, flus.

There are literally an infinite no. of opportunities for such infections to present themselves. Stop pretending they only present because of this virus.

Edited March 16, 2020 by Rue

Argus · March 16, 2020

20 hours ago, kactus said:

Well, when you have a government that states we have the worst health crisis for generation and you are going to lose families and loved ones and on the same statement mention and by the way we are not banning school closures and mass gatherings do not get surprised when football bosses make their own decisions to postpone/ cancel matches. People get panicked and swamp supermarkets stockpile on staple food, toilet papers to the point of rationing.

That has happened everywhere, regardless of what the government says or what actions it takes. The British government is doing what its medical and scientific people tell it is best. There is no way to prevent the virus so expose the community while the more vulnerable people stay at home.

Argus · March 16, 2020

20 hours ago, Zeitgeist said:

Governments and health agencies need to manage fear as much as or more than the virus. Many people are living with a kind of shell shock resulting from the abrupt closures and advisories, yet really, what has changed? We have a 142 cases in Ontario (five of those recovered). We are reacting to the reactions to the virus.

I disagree. I mean, you have Ottawa's medical officer of health saying that even though we only have a handful of cases there are probably hundreds, maybe even a thousand undiagnosed people with the virus roaming around out there in the city. Then they say to stay home and only go out for necessities. How is that not worrying to people?

Zeitgeist · March 16, 2020

3 hours ago, ProudConservative said:

Let me explain exponential growth. If you start with 100 people and a virus grows by 2% a day, you get 137 723 cases after one year.

If the virus grows by 4%, you get 164 853 281 cases after one year.

So by having an infection rate that's twice as high, you end up with the same amount of cases, multiplied by 1196.

If the mask reduce the infection rate by 50%... you end up saving more than 99.9% who would otherwise become infected infected.

That's why a virus that kills 50% of the population is a lot less scary, than a virus that kills 5% of the population that is twice as contagious.

The issue isn’t so much the fact that the virus could spread to many or most people. The point is to slow down the speed of the spread to a manageable rate so that the health system can manage the cases that require medical care WHILE AT THE SAME TIME maintaining a functioning economy with most businesses operating. This mass soft quarantine is just there to turn the tide into a controlled flow of cases. Those whose health is fragile and the elderly must be extra careful to avoid infection, but some of them will get it and the health system will be able to support them as best as possible under this more controlled spread. We do have to get back to public life soon, but it will be in smaller groupings and with heightened hygiene. Governments and health agencies have a responsibility to manage the risks in this balanced way.

I think it’s wrong for restaurants and bars to close. Just reduce capacity as Quebec is doing. Keep the stores open and most workplaces open, again without large congregations of people. Maintain social distancing and cleaning protocols. Even schools need to get back to it in reduced, every other day class sizes. This may be the new normal for some time, but at least we’ll have a functioning society, avoid a depression, and maintain a manageable health system. We can’t shut down for long.

The main reason that a small percentage of Canada’s infections have resulted in death is because the system has been able to respond. We have 324 confirmed cases in Canada. I’m sure many more people have the virus. 13% of those 324 required hospitalization. My understanding is that we have one confirmed death. So, as long as the health system can manage the flow and we can maintain a limited flow through reasonable containment measures and extra precautions for the vulnerable, we can keep calm, carry on, and maintain a functioning economy, albeit a slower one.

Edited March 16, 2020 by Zeitgeist

Argus · March 16, 2020

18 hours ago, SpankyMcFarland said:

More bad news for the geezer class:

I read the other day that Italy's first case was a 38 year old amateur athlete in perfect health. Yeah, he survived - after 3 weeks on a ventilator in hospital. But I don't think that suggests everyone is fine except for the elderly.

Edited March 16, 2020 by Argus

Argus · March 16, 2020

3 hours ago, Yzermandius19 said:

Wishful thinking is a helluva drug. Your faith in masks is misguided.

They help. And if everyone wears them they help a lot, though more by helping prevent people who have the disease from spreading it than anything else.

Argus · March 16, 2020

3 hours ago, Yzermandius19 said:

. Masks are only useful for helping preventing the people not wearing the masks from getting infected by those who are wearing them, they don't stop the people wearing them from getting the virus.

The N95 masks (which are currently unavailable to the general public) are much more effective as protection.

scribblet · March 16, 2020

23 hours ago, mowich said:

Try checking smaller stores, scrib. Our local country store had no shortage of any products including TP and hand sanitizer. Just saying.

Nothing... they are all out now.

scribblet · March 16, 2020

On 3/15/2020 at 12:25 PM, Argus said:

People are crazy. And crazy people don't think very well. I was at the mall yesterday for lunch. We couldn't resist dropping by the Loblaws and sure enough, all the TP was gone. But just around the corner was a Rexall which had plenty. The crazy people seek out the places with giant packs of 48 rolls like Walmart, Costco and the Loblaws super stores. Meanwhile, there's plenty available at the corner stores and drug stores, only in regular size packs.

Drug stores where all out, people lined up at Walmart on Sunday at opening, TP was gone in 10 minutes, shelves in grocery stores were picked clean, even all the potatoes had gone. gonna try again in a couple of days. it's Lord of the Flies out there and it's only just begun.

I've read that some stores in Alberta are opening early for seniors to shop, hope that spreads to Ontario. meanwhile flights from China are still landing....

Yzermandius19 · March 16, 2020

59 minutes ago, Argus said:

The N95 masks (which are currently unavailable to the general public) are much more effective as protection.

They protect the people not wearing them, not so much the person wearing them. Good for health care workers, a waste of resources for the general public especially during a shortage. Washing your hands and wearing gloves in high risk areas is still more effective than the N95 masks.

Gloves > Masks

Edited March 16, 2020 by Yzermandius19

OftenWrong · March 16, 2020

I heard the virus could mutate, and right now is fairly tame so the best protection is to get the virus now and develop immunity. We all need to be exposed to the virus as soon as possible.

Zeitgeist · March 16, 2020

12 minutes ago, OftenWrong said:

I heard the virus could mutate, and right now is fairly tame so the best protection is to get the virus now and develop immunity. We all need to be exposed to the virus as soon as possible.

Avoiding the virus is the best policy, as many will get it and we want to slow the rate of spread so the health system can handle the flow. We do need to maintain most businesses and supply chains.

eyeball · March 16, 2020

14 minutes ago, OftenWrong said:

I heard the virus could mutate, and right now is fairly tame so the best protection is to get the virus now and develop immunity. We all need to be exposed to the virus as soon as possible.

Well, you let us know how that works out for you.

Army Guy · March 16, 2020

6 hours ago, ProudConservative said:

So you don't want Canada to spend more money on personal protective gear? Would you prefer to act heartless like Army Guy, because you get more offended by optics, than trying to prevent millions of people from dying?

It's the fracking flu...not the plague moron, you have more chance dying by a car accident than this flu, you should wrap yourself in bubble wrap and prepare for that...buy toilet paper it seems to ward of the flu...or thats what everyone thinks...it's not that am heartless, I just don't have time for someone who thinks the world is coming to an end, and scaring others into the same thinking....

SpankyMcFarland · March 16, 2020

3 hours ago, Argus said:

I read the other day that Italy's first case was a 38 year old amateur athlete in perfect health. Yeah, he survived - after 3 weeks on a ventilator in hospital. But I don't think that suggests everyone is fine except for the elderly.

The virus does tend to affect older people more severely and would be a major additional challenge for them (and a geezer in training like me) to face in the winter months if it becomes a regular thing.

Edited March 16, 2020 by SpankyMcFarland

SpankyMcFarland · March 16, 2020

3 hours ago, Argus said:

That has happened everywhere, regardless of what the government says or what actions it takes. The British government is doing what its medical and scientific people tell it is best. There is no way to prevent the virus so expose the community while the more vulnerable people stay at home.

There’s a lot of debate among experts in Britain about the wisdom of their new policy. I have never seen the term herd immunity used in the early phase of a novel viral pandemic before. At the very least, the UK govt could have explained their position better:

https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2020/03/coronavirus-pandemic-herd-immunity-uk-boris-johnson/608065/

Edited March 16, 2020 by SpankyMcFarland