Quasem Soleimani Taken Out

[Moonlight Graham]

5 hours ago, eyeball said:

We need to up our game...bigley.  From where I'm sitting we have zero influence right now.  What we need is an alliance of countries who insist on projecting virtue not power. 

Will it hurt, sure. The worst pain will probably be the hoots of laughter and rolley eyes thrown our way in the public square.

I said it before and I'll say it again our grandparents sacrificed 25% of their GDP in their war against tyranny and I'm pretty sure many would look like your avatar if they could see how much of our GDP is now dependent on tyrants.  You say you're not a cold-hearted bastard and I think you're right. It's probably more a matter of being a chicken-heart.

Not sure what exactly you mean in any of this.  Please be more specific.

[Scott Mayers]

On 1/3/2020 at 5:20 PM, scribblet said:

What was he doing in Iraq anyway, he was under  UN travel ban, not that it ever stopped him from traveling. 

A friend of mine from Iraq has kept up with the news in Iraq that the world was ignoring. Protests have been going on by students to get the President to be removed. The Iranians have been present in Iraq due to the lack of supports of the West. The protestors didn't want the involvement of Iran but they were the only ones getting involved. The Iraqis wanted the U.S. (and the West, in general) to help by OVERLOOKING the changes the protestors were demanding, NOT sending troops to simply fight for Iran. The only thing that got attention (not by these protestors against the Iraqi govenment) was the attack on the U.S. Embassy. 

So the Iraqis are only still being screwed given they want to shape their own country on their own terms democratically (and secularly so) but cannot where the problems escalate into another war unwelcomed there. The Iranians were there ONLY due to a vaccuum created in them being unable to fight ISIS alone. 

The above video is only its second appeal to the English world. I saw the first and commented that I was confuse about their set up. If it is for an English audience I wanted to alert them to fix HOW the program was staged or risk some assuming the site as a potential recruitment. This guy is a comedian in the style of our own late night talkshow entertainers who present news issues in comedy. So maybe this might help some get some background on what was missed while too many other issues were at stake around the world.

As to the reason the U.S. (and the West in general) were not noticing, this was due to the reasonable fear that Trump may intend to utilize war measures to save his upcoming election in light of the recent impeachment. I tried to console my friend in his own concern why Iraq news was being overlooked. The recent events with Trump's announcement to counterthreaten Iran is why. There seems to be a problem being able to ask for help by anyone when it always has to require an American dying to get it. And this only TEACHES the terrorists this is what works. 

So pay attention to the Iraqis guys. They are the ones going to suffer more here and only attract more terrorists.

[Moonlight Graham]

5 hours ago, Marocc said:

Another proof that secular countries are not any more righteous than non-secular countries.

If Canada weren't secular they could ban all Muslims and non-Christians and jail the non-Christian non-believers that already live here.  You know, like they do in a bunch of non-secular Muslim middle east countries.  Is that what you want?  I doubt it.

The middle-east is filled with a ton of trash governments with some of the worst human rights records.  It's illegal to dance or play music in public in Saudi Arabia.  These governments are nutters.

[eyeball]

Just now, Moonlight Graham said:

Not sure what exactly you mean in any of this.  Please be more specific.

A coalition of the virtuous willing to make the aiding and abetting of dictators a crime against humanity and only trading with signatory countries.

Is that specific enough?  What have you got to be afraid of, the economic cost? Compared to the economic cost of decades of seducing the canine and complacency at the direction things have been going?  Maybe this explains how denial about climate change has been so successful, we've had a lot of practice.  

[eyeball]

10 minutes ago, Moonlight Graham said:

If Canada weren't secular they could ban all Muslims and non-Christians and jail the non-Christian non-believers that already live here.  You know, like they do in a bunch of non-secular Muslim middle east countries.  Is that what you want?  I doubt it.

The middle-east is filled with a ton of trash governments with some of the worst human rights records.  It's illegal to dance or play music in public in Saudi Arabia.  These governments are nutters.

Many are our BFF's with benefits too.  Why is it legal and okay to play and dance with them?

Oh, right...

 

 

Edited January 6, 2020 by eyeball

[Scott Mayers]

12 minutes ago, Moonlight Graham said:

If Canada weren't secular they could ban all Muslims and non-Christians and jail the non-Christian non-believers that already live here.  You know, like they do in a bunch of non-secular Muslim middle east countries.  Is that what you want?  I doubt it.

The middle-east is filled with a ton of trash governments with some of the worst human rights records.  It's illegal to dance or play music in public in Saudi Arabia.  These governments are nutters.

Funny. While we are 'secular' in the rough,  our own constitution is setting the same kind of problematic stage for a future in which we here will experience the same issues in the Middle East. We are actually the ones setting their governments up to fail by creating theocratic Constitutions like our own. The only reason we have yet to see it here is due to time alone. [So my dig is to fix our own Constitution. See my thread on challenging the Constition via the Preamble as a stepping stone to assure our government is secular and not manipulateable by religious intolerances. See Preamble to Charter of Rights (and Constitution)...]

On this issue, please look at my above last post (this thread). Watch the linked video to get a background of what is occurring fairly.

[CITIZEN_2015]

By the way it was total idiotic comment by Trump to threaten to bomb Iran's cultural sites. What a total IDIOT. How is that going to bother the anti-Iran occupying mullahs where are scared to death of pre-islamic Persian culture and close off all the roads to Persepolis weeks before the Cyrus day in October so that Iranians don't celebrate cultural events. He certainly got himself lots of enemies among Iranians by this stupid comment. TRUMP IS A TOTAL IDIOT.

Edited January 7, 2020 by CITIZEN_2015

[eyeball]

1 hour ago, CITIZEN_2015 said:

By the way it was total idiotic comment by Trump to threaten to bomb Iran's cultural sites. What a total IDIOT. How is that going to bother the anti-Iran occupying mullahs where are scared to death of pre-islamic Persian culture and close off all the roads to Persepolis weeks before the Cyrus day in October so that Iranians don't celebrate cultural events. He certainly got himself lots of enemies among Iranians by this stupid comment. TRUMP IS A TOTAL IDIOT.

David Frum on Power Panel today attributed this latest geopolitical crisis to a tweet/instagram flame war between Trump and the Ayatollah that got out of control.

The world needs a moderator, not a leader.

[OftenWrong]

9 hours ago, eyeball said:

What's probably confusing you is the way outbreaks of violence or instability become the newest latest reason why things are so fucked up. The memory of past events fades from public consciousness and makes it harder to place current events in a historical perspective. It's a very convenient process for anyone interested in exploiting or initiating these event for personal/economic/ political/ideological interests.

Not confused much generally and yes I read Machiavelli. What's confusing you is, you think people can be persuaded to somehow give a hootin. But they won't

[OftenWrong]

4 hours ago, eyeball said:

A coalition of the virtuous willing to make the aiding and abetting of dictators a crime against humanity and only trading with signatory countries.

Is that specific enough?  What have you got to be afraid of, the economic cost? Compared to the economic cost of decades of seducing the canine and complacency at the direction things have been going?  Maybe this explains how denial about climate change has been so successful, we've had a lot of practice.  

Which dictators would you put on your banned list? Probably all of them if I know you, in which case you would end up doing some people harm, not good. for you see eyeball, sometimes dictators are necessary. There is this thing called necessary evil. It occurs when stupid men cannot abide one another, and all they can think of doing is what you are thinking of doing right now. A few choice words then out comes the shovel, right?

When that happens you can't have a democracy, you can't have a society at all, unless of course you kill everybody. let me know if that thought ever crosses your mind... Or better yet, get yourself a dictator. That's the way to go.

[CITIZEN_2015]

Untold facts about Soleimani:

He was a veteran of Iran-Iraq war which means he defended his country against invading Iraqis for 8 years and successfully. He also was instrumental in defeating ISIS when they were about to take over Iraq. He was a hero to many in this regards however would these actions overshadow his other side many would regard as evil like his military support for Bashir Assad regime which is responsible for many Syrians to be killed. Or his recent actions in Iraq. All that said correction is needed from earlier statement and that is Soleimani was not responsible for the recent killings of Iranian protesters as apparently contrary to what has been said he was not a revolutionary guard commander but a Ghods commander not involved in internal killings to my updated knowledge.

[eyeball]

56 minutes ago, OftenWrong said:

for you see eyeball, sometimes dictators are necessary. There is this thing called necessary evil blah blah blah...

Piss off.

[OftenWrong]

4 minutes ago, eyeball said:

Piss off.

I know. Reality bites. Makes me want to cry in my rootbeer float.

[eyeball]

1 minute ago, OftenWrong said:

I know. Reality bites. Makes me want to cry in my rootbeer float.

Horseshit. The reality is that Trump is like Santa Clause that came twice this season - you dimwits couldn't be happier at this turn of events.

[bush_cheney2004]

1 minute ago, eyeball said:

Horseshit. The reality is that Trump is like Santa Clause that came twice this season - you dimwits couldn't be happier at this turn of events.

 

Correct...very happy that this Iranian general has gone to terrorist heaven.

[eyeball]

2 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

Correct...very happy that this Iranian general has gone to terrorist heaven.

Same Heaven dimwits go...enjoy.

[bush_cheney2004]

2 minutes ago, eyeball said:

Same Heaven dimwits go...enjoy.

 

Ding...dong....Soleimani is dead.

So what's not to enjoy ?

Give candy to the Iranian children in Tehronto !

[Rue]

19 hours ago, OftenWrong said:

Which dictators would you put on your banned list? Probably all of them if I know you, in which case you would end up doing some people harm, not good. for you see eyeball, sometimes dictators are necessary. There is this thing called necessary evil. It occurs when stupid men cannot abide one another, and all they can think of doing is what you are thinking of doing right now. A few choice words then out comes the shovel, right?

When that happens you can't have a democracy, you can't have a society at all, unless of course you kill everybody. let me know if that thought ever crosses your mind... Or better yet, get yourself a dictator. That's the way to go.

Reality and theory...reality unfortunately tempers theory. When we need to ally with stinkers for the greater good is the debate of course.

In the ME  the choices of allies is limited.  It is of course all part of the game of hegemony with China and Russia.

The US appears to have sent a strong message to  China, Russia, North Korea not just Iran.

Trump it appears is the good cop in the good cop bad cop routine being played out. Substance not rhetoric is the key. Substance in this case is the US responding strategically in the South China seas and now with Iran. 

It's far more important to watch actual US responses and actions as opposed to Trump rhetoric. The US responses make it clear they will contain Russia and China and their proxy colonies and not rely on any support from the EU with Israel agreeing to lay low now the US has reappeared in the ME as police officer.

This also sent a signal to Saudi Arabia and Egypt the US had not abandon them. Both allies were alienated by Trump sucking up to Erdogan.

Any thoughts Erdogan had of sucking up to Iran and Russia in the ME has also been responded to.

In fact it is also possible China did not mind Iran getting a slap down either. Iran has been financing Muslim uprisings in China.

Who knows the real story beneath these decisions. We can only speculate.

 

Edited January 7, 2020 by Rue

[Army Guy]

23 hours ago, marcus said:

I have problems with it. 

U.S. has military bases all around Iran and flies a drone into Iranian airspace and nothing. The drone gets shot down by the Iranians and OMG OMG!

Saudi Arabia has done numerous terrorist attacks inside Iran and nothing from you. An Iranian backed group attacks the Saudi oil field and OMG OMG!

The U.S. is in Iraq, Syria, Lebanon, Gulf States and nothing from you. Iran has groups in other countries, where they are mostly welcomed by the governments and OMG OMG!

Your empty and superficial outrage is amusing.

 

Lines have already been drawn in the sand Marcus, man up, pick a side, don't like the side your on, pack up your shit and move...it is that simple need a ticket send me your address and i'll send you one...This mad man is reasonable for killing thousands of Americans, and other NATO troops.  He was a terrorist scum bag,  he has paid for his crimes with his life....

[Shady]

On 1/6/2020 at 11:51 AM, marcus said:

I have problems with it. 

U.S. has military bases all around Iran and flies a drone into Iranian airspace and nothing. The drone gets shot down by the Iranians and OMG OMG!

Saudi Arabia has done numerous terrorist attacks inside Iran and nothing from you. An Iranian backed group attacks the Saudi oil field and OMG OMG!

The U.S. is in Iraq, Syria, Lebanon, Gulf States and nothing from you. Iran has groups in other countries, where they are mostly welcomed by the governments and OMG OMG!

Your empty and superficial outrage is amusing.

 

I've never heard you have a problem with it.  Ever.

I think the Iranians had a right to shoot down a drown over their air space.  That's probably why nothing was done about it afterwards.  I'm not sure what terrorist attacks inside Iran you're referring to.  But Iran is the master of terrorist attacks within the Middle East.  Yeah, attacking another country, and it's oil field is a big f*cking deal.  Hence, OMG, OMG.  No, Iran has terrorist groups in other countries, so yes, OMG, OMG.  I'm sure if America attacked Iranian oil fields, you'd have quite a lot to say.  Btw, you forgot about Iran stopping American ships in the straight, illegally.  I know, I know though, Iran gets to do whatever it wants.  And if American responds than it's in the wrong, as usual.  

Continue to worship your Mullahs.

Edited January 7, 2020 by Shady

[OftenWrong]

2 hours ago, Rue said:

Who knows the real story beneath these decisions. We can only speculate.

Good points Rue, like a breath of fresh air. Thank you!

[Moonlight Graham]

18 hours ago, eyeball said:

A coalition of the virtuous willing to make the aiding and abetting of dictators a crime against humanity and only trading with signatory countries.

So you only want to trade with countries with good human rights records?  That would mean we have to stop trade with the large majority of countries in the world.  That's not going to work.

It's an interesting idea, I would think the temptation for individual countries to cheat and make trade would be hard to resist because of economics.

I think we should have a coalition of only healthy democracies to enforce all sorts of things, like security, trade etc.

[eyeball]

30 minutes ago, Moonlight Graham said:

So you only want to trade with countries with good human rights records? That would mean we have to stop trade with the large majority of countries in the world.  That's not going to work.

More to the point I don't want to trade with any country that aid's or support dictator. That would probably narrow the range of trade-worthy countries even more.  It'll be hard but you don't know that it won't work until you try.

Quote

It's an interesting idea, I would think the temptation for individual countries to cheat and make trade would be hard to resist because of economics.

Yes, there will be those and probably lots of individuals here at home who's disgust for virtue will be just as unquenchable.

Quote

I think we should have a coalition of only healthy democracies to enforce all sorts of things, like security, trade etc.

Healthy democracies?  That'll narrow your range of worthies somewhat too.

Edited January 7, 2020 by eyeball

[Moonlight Graham]

1 hour ago, eyeball said:

More to the point I don't want to trade with any country that aid's or support dictator. That would probably narrow the range of trade-worthy countries even more.  It'll be hard but you don't know that it won't work until you try.

Cost of goods will shoot through the roof.  We won't be able to trade with China.  It's a nice idea I just don't think it will work.

[bush_cheney2004]

10 minutes ago, Moonlight Graham said:

Cost of goods will shoot through the roof.  We won't be able to trade with China.  It's a nice idea I just don't think it will work.

 

Won't be able to trade with the United States either.   That would put a big hurt on the Canadian economy.