eyeball Posted January 5, 2020 Report Share Posted January 5, 2020 38 minutes ago, -TSS- said: The blind hatred towards Trump is really somehow ununderstandable since he is really no exception to any of his predecessors. Informed disgust not blind hatred comprise most people's feelings towards Trump in the west. As for millions of people in the ME and surrounding region the hatred due Trump and his predecessors stems from decades of exceptionally odious behaviour. You'd have to be deliberately blind to be as ununderstanding about any of this as you admit to being. Wilful blindness is what makes Trump's supporters so disgusting too btw. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyeball Posted January 5, 2020 Report Share Posted January 5, 2020 8 minutes ago, Moonlight Graham said: I'm not saying i would have done it, i'm saying this is how the world works. It was the Cold War. Zero sum game. Don't hate the player, hate the game. The world is not a game and hating assholes who do act like it was is the only appropriate path thru it. I guess I just don't have much use for spectators anymore either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-TSS- Posted January 5, 2020 Report Share Posted January 5, 2020 20 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said: So in one post you say 1) he's no exception 2) puts Israel ahead of all priorities 3) vows to pull America out of wars I think it's exceptional. Maybe it's me. I wonder is it even possible to have a no Israel first-President. I guess in theory yes but in practice, not a chance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonlight Graham Posted January 5, 2020 Report Share Posted January 5, 2020 2 hours ago, eyeball said: Seems no matter where you look when Americans are involved thousands upon tens and hundreds of thousands of innocent human beings die horrible awful deaths at the hands of tyrants. They're a global superpower. They're a bunch of bastards, except when compared to any other great power in human history. Including the British Empire, France, Germany, Spain, Russia etc. The British Empire were ones that led the coup of Mossedegh btw. The British rightfully, to my knowledge, owned the Anglo-Iranian Oil Company (AIOC), and Iran sought to nationalize those assets which the British owned. The problem was that Britain also thought they owned Iran's oil because they discovered and developed it. The other problem was that Mossedegh not only thought Iran owned Iranian oil, he thought Iran owned the British assets like the AIOC on Iranian soil. In a perfect world they should have brokered a deal where Iran could purchase certain infrastructure or corporate assets from UK. But Britain was still in empire mode and was broke from WWII, while Mossedegh was a bit greedy. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonlight Graham Posted January 5, 2020 Report Share Posted January 5, 2020 7 minutes ago, eyeball said: The world is not a game and hating assholes who do act like it was is the only appropriate path thru it. I guess I just don't have much use for spectators anymore either. The world is a giant competition for survival and resources. Everyone is a player. It occurs within and between countries. Everyone who goes to a job interview is competing against all other candidates for that better job/salary. Everyone in school is competing for grades so they can get the best job. Companies are competing against each other for sales etc. It's no different than squirrels competing for nuts. This is the way it's been since the dawn of life on earth. International orgs like the UN or WTO try to bring in rules to make the game less savage and more ordered, just like domestic laws do. Unfortunately, there's no enforcement mechanism in the international realm that is reliable to keep everyone honest, unlike domestically where we have cops and jails. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marocc Posted January 5, 2020 Report Share Posted January 5, 2020 38 minutes ago, Moonlight Graham said: Don't hate the player, hate the game. It's not a game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyeball Posted January 5, 2020 Report Share Posted January 5, 2020 (edited) 8 minutes ago, Moonlight Graham said: It's no different than squirrels competing for nuts. This is the way it's been since the dawn of life on earth. When squirrels start imposing dictatorships on one another in their quest for nuts give me a call. There's only only one animal on Earth who does that and it should know better. We've had enough magic words and laws to tell us why for at least a couple of thousand years now so there's no fucking excuse for it. Edited January 5, 2020 by eyeball Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marocc Posted January 5, 2020 Report Share Posted January 5, 2020 2 minutes ago, Moonlight Graham said: This is the way it's been since the dawn of life on earth. A bystander making excuses as to why he cannot, why he should not — would not — do anything about the atrocities happening in front of him. You should see his face when the atrocities happen in his city. Suddenly all those old expressions sound rather lame and he's acting like the world owes him something because they didn't do or say anything when his children were slaughtered, his wife sold as a sex slave, his right arm cut off and his property burnt to the ground — as if! C'est la vie! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyeball Posted January 5, 2020 Report Share Posted January 5, 2020 20 minutes ago, Moonlight Graham said: They're a global superpower. They're a bunch of bastards, except when compared to any other great power in human history. Including the British Empire, France, Germany, Spain, Russia etc. The British Empire were ones that led the coup of Mossedegh btw. The British rightfully, to my knowledge, owned the Anglo-Iranian Oil Company (AIOC), and Iran sought to nationalize those assets which the British owned. The problem was that Britain also thought they owned Iran's oil because they discovered and developed it. The other problem was that Mossedegh not only thought Iran owned Iranian oil, he thought Iran owned the British assets like the AIOC on Iranian soil. In a perfect world they should have brokered a deal where Iran could purchase certain infrastructure or corporate assets from UK. But Britain was still in empire mode and was broke from WWII, while Mossedegh was a bit greedy. Go tell it to the ICC when it finally gets around to establishing a Truth and Reconciliation process to start dealing with the mess we're in. I know it makes you puke but Kumbaya is the only way forward. Otherwise no one is getting out alive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted January 5, 2020 Report Share Posted January 5, 2020 2 minutes ago, eyeball said: Go tell it to the ICC when it finally gets around to establishing a Truth and Reconciliation process to start dealing with the mess we're in. I know it makes you puke but Kumbaya is the only way forward. Otherwise no one is getting out alive. No one is getting out alive anyway. The ICC is used to prosecute crimes in third world nations....mostly Africans....not Canadians building APCs for the Saudis and Liberal jobs/votes in Ontario. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonlight Graham Posted January 5, 2020 Report Share Posted January 5, 2020 37 minutes ago, eyeball said: The world is not a game and hating assholes who do act like it was is the only appropriate path thru it. I guess I just don't have much use for spectators anymore either. You think hate is the answer? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonlight Graham Posted January 5, 2020 Report Share Posted January 5, 2020 20 minutes ago, Marocc said: It's not a game. Why not? It's filled with winners and losers. Everyone is dealt a different hand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marocc Posted January 5, 2020 Report Share Posted January 5, 2020 7 hours ago, eyeball said: How long do you think our society would stay sane You think it's sane? 7 hours ago, Shady said: Basically when they took over the American embassy and held them hostage in 1979/80 What could they expect behaving the way they did? You go to someone else's land, you show respect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonlight Graham Posted January 5, 2020 Report Share Posted January 5, 2020 15 minutes ago, eyeball said: When squirrels start imposing dictatorships on one another in their quest for nuts give me a call. I see squirrels fight all the time. Animals kill each other for food and mates all the time. Animals rape each other all the time, steal each other's babies etc. Nature is far more violent and cruel than humans are. Humans try to set up domestic and international society with rules and punishments and social programs to avoid as much of the cruelty of the state of nature as possible. It's not perfect though, especially internationally when the system is anarchic with no global police or army to enforce laws. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marocc Posted January 5, 2020 Report Share Posted January 5, 2020 4 minutes ago, Moonlight Graham said: Why not? It's filled with winners and losers. Everyone is dealt a different hand. It doesn't have any winners. And because it is serious. You might as well stop joking about the destruction that your country causes, even if indirectly. Every single person looking and saying nothing, is guilty. you talk about it the way you do, not because it is what it is, but because you don't care. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonlight Graham Posted January 5, 2020 Report Share Posted January 5, 2020 17 minutes ago, eyeball said: Go tell it to the ICC when it finally gets around to establishing a Truth and Reconciliation process to start dealing with the mess we're in. I know it makes you puke but Kumbaya is the only way forward. Otherwise no one is getting out alive. Well, I agree that Iran and the US need to come to the table and end their stupid rivalry. There's no real squabbles anymore, just distrust and resentment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marocc Posted January 5, 2020 Report Share Posted January 5, 2020 2 minutes ago, Moonlight Graham said: Nature is far more violent and cruel than humans are. Animals aren't cruel. They don't have a mind like man does. They don't kill out if hatred, they kill to survive. The animals and their communities are built brilliantly. The entire system holds itself up by itself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonlight Graham Posted January 5, 2020 Report Share Posted January 5, 2020 2 minutes ago, Marocc said: It doesn't have any winners. And because it is serious. You might as well stop joking about the destruction that your country causes, even if indirectly. Every single person looking and saying nothing, is guilty. you talk about it the way you do, not because it is what it is, but because you don't care. I'm not joking. And why would I not care? Do you think I want Americans and Iranians being killed? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyeball Posted January 5, 2020 Report Share Posted January 5, 2020 15 minutes ago, Moonlight Graham said: You think hate is the answer? For nations that launch dictators at people? No problemo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marocc Posted January 5, 2020 Report Share Posted January 5, 2020 Just now, Moonlight Graham said: I'm not joking. Your tone is light. Insultingly light. If you cared you wouldn't talk like that. You don't care because it is far away and doesn't directly damage you. It's not about whether you want them killed or not, but whether you care who dies and who doesn't and whether you care about — or even understand — the situation as a whole. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonlight Graham Posted January 5, 2020 Report Share Posted January 5, 2020 1 minute ago, Marocc said: Animals aren't cruel. They don't have a mind like man does. They don't kill out if hatred, they kill to survive. The animals and their communities are built brilliantly. The entire system holds itself up by itself. My dog hates my neighbour and would bite him if given the chance. When humans kill out of hatred, it's often out of fear, same with dogs. Hitler feared the Jews. Animals are territorial and kill for resources and territory just like humans. They rape, murder, steal etc. All the European empires, without exception, colonized foreign lands and took those resources out of survival. If the British and French didn't colonize the US and Canada, the Spanish would have, and the Spanish would then be far more powerful than Britain and France and could have invaded them and conquered them. The Cold War was a similar competition. Had the US not controlled the countries it did, the USSR either would have or attempted to. The USSR eventually lost the competition, imploded, and ceases to exist, proving my point that it was a competition for survival. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonlight Graham Posted January 5, 2020 Report Share Posted January 5, 2020 10 minutes ago, eyeball said: For nations that launch dictators at people? No problemo. Hatred is different than vehemently disagreeing or even being outraged. Hatred only destroys yourself, and turns you into what you hate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonlight Graham Posted January 5, 2020 Report Share Posted January 5, 2020 11 minutes ago, Marocc said: Your tone is light. Insultingly light. If you cared you wouldn't talk like that. You don't care because it is far away and doesn't directly damage you. It's not about whether you want them killed or not, but whether you care who dies and who doesn't and whether you care about — or even understand — the situation as a whole. You don't know anything about me or my posting history here. Go take a search of what I thought about the US-led invasion of Iraq a decade ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted January 5, 2020 Report Share Posted January 5, 2020 President Trump is ready to retaliate against Iran if it wants "revenge" against the Great Satan: Quote In unusually specific language, Trump tweeted that his administration had already targeted 52 Iranian sites, "some at a very high level & important to Iran & the Iranian culture." He linked the number of sites to the number of hostages, also 52, held by Iran for nearly 15 months after protesters overran the U.S. Embassy in Tehran in 1979. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marocc Posted January 5, 2020 Report Share Posted January 5, 2020 24 minutes ago, Moonlight Graham said: You don't know anything about me or my posting history here. I don't need to know. I don't measure people based on what they have done in the past. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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