Rue Posted January 9, 2020 Author Report Share Posted January 9, 2020 (edited) On 1/8/2020 at 11:32 PM, eyeball said: Rue, just because you can't make use of a TV the Internet or newspapers doesn't automatically mean no one else can. I am saying if you do not live with a missile pointed at your ass or live with a potential terrorist attack any second, your perspective on terrorism is far different. Living in close firing range of terrorists changes your perspective. If you lived next door to Iran, your opinion would be far different. You do live next door to the US and please do not tell me you are afraid of Trump attacking you. Edited January 10, 2020 by Rue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyeball Posted January 9, 2020 Report Share Posted January 9, 2020 1 hour ago, Rue said: Yes there were pro Iranian student supporters there. Absolutely. Both sides. I have had my rants about Trump but when dealing with terrorists I think ANY US President defending the world against terrorists should be applauded so I put my partisan biases to the side on that one. I have to strongly support the US. The problem is that there's nothing to defend the world from the US. No one around here is applauding terrorists but there are lots of people applauding the US for creating the sort of instability that gives terrorists their raison d'être. Don't forget Trump is just a symptom and simply the latest in a long string of US Presidents who've been interfering and destabilizing Iran and the surrounding region for decades. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted January 9, 2020 Report Share Posted January 9, 2020 3 minutes ago, eyeball said: The problem is that there's nothing to defend the world from the US. No one around here is applauding terrorists but there are lots of people applauding the US for creating the sort of instability that gives terrorists their raison d'être. Don't forget Trump is just a symptom and simply the latest in a long string of US Presidents who've been interfering and destabilizing Iran and the surrounding region for decades. But it has not been just the US interfering and destabilizing the region for many decades, and that includes Canada (e.g. Gulf War, Libya, etc.). Terrorists have also attacked many other nations besides the USA and American interests. You can't hide from reality by pretending all would be paradise if only the U.S. stayed home. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyeball Posted January 9, 2020 Report Share Posted January 9, 2020 1 hour ago, Rue said: I am saying if you do not live with a missile pointed at your ass or leave with a potential terrorist attack any second, your perspective on terrorism is far different. I have to live everyday wondering what kind of fucked up world we're leaving my grand-kids. Don't preach to me about my perspective. Quote Living in close firing range of terrorists changes your perspective. I imagine living with the threat of a drone coming out of the sky like a bolt from the red white and blue is a little terrifying too. Quote If you lived next door to Iran, your opinion would be far different. You do live next door to the US and please do not tell me you are afraid of Trump attacking you. I live next door to a country that is ruled by someone who appears to be as unstable and out of control as Kim Jong Il. I'm afraid of the instability and terrorism his and his country's actions lead to. I think they're everybit as terrifying. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyeball Posted January 9, 2020 Report Share Posted January 9, 2020 1 minute ago, bush_cheney2004 said: But it has not been just the US interfering and destabilizing the region for many decades, and that includes Canada (e.g. Gulf War, Libya, etc.). Terrorists have also attacked many other nations besides the USA and American interests. Probably because we're with you. No surprise. Quote You can't hide from reality by pretending all would be paradise if only the U.S. stayed home. Nor can I hide from the likelihood that things would still be better if only the US stayed home. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marocc Posted January 9, 2020 Report Share Posted January 9, 2020 7 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said: You can't hide from reality by pretending all would be paradise if only the U.S. stayed home. You can hardly make credible a claim that all wouldn't be a bit better if the US knew when to stay and when to go. I think they need a guardian. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted January 9, 2020 Report Share Posted January 9, 2020 1 minute ago, eyeball said: Probably because we're with you. No surprise. Nor can I hide from the likelihood that things would still be better if only the US stayed home. Your own government has made such choices without regard for your personal fears, including pleas for Donald Trump to continue "protection" for the "post WW2 order" by the United States. The US stayed home for Rwanda and human rights "progressives" like you bitched about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted January 9, 2020 Report Share Posted January 9, 2020 4 minutes ago, Marocc said: You can hardly make credible a claim that all wouldn't be a bit better if the US knew when to stay and when to go. I think they need a guardian. The US has and will continue to act for American interests. You can't have it both ways, demanding American action and power only when it supports other interests. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyeball Posted January 9, 2020 Report Share Posted January 9, 2020 8 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said: Your own government has made such choices without regard for your personal fears, Yes this is the usual state of human governance around the planet. Something you apparently celebrate and adore - getting off on raw power is petty weird if you ask me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted January 9, 2020 Report Share Posted January 9, 2020 Just now, eyeball said: Yes this is the usual state of human governance around the planet. Something you apparently celebrate and adore - getting off on raw power is petty weird if you ask me. Correct....I recognize and accept reality for what it is...not worshiping delusional fantasies instead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyeball Posted January 9, 2020 Report Share Posted January 9, 2020 Just now, bush_cheney2004 said: Correct....I recognize and accept reality for what it is...not worshiping delusional fantasies instead. I wonder if that's what Truman thought when he told Churchill he was nut's if he thought the US was going to overthrow a democracy. America's 1st peacetime overthrow must have been like popping it's cherry or something - the worship of delusional fantasies indeed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted January 9, 2020 Report Share Posted January 9, 2020 Just now, eyeball said: I wonder if that's what Truman thought when he told Churchill he was nut's if he thought the US was going to overthrow a democracy. America's 1st peacetime overthrow must have been like popping it's cherry or something - the worship of delusional fantasies indeed. You are very short on American history before....1953. The United States executed a terrorist who just happens to be an Iranian general. ...so update his Wiki entry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyeball Posted January 9, 2020 Report Share Posted January 9, 2020 14 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said: You are very short on American history before....1953. And you are very full of shit as always. Iran was your country's 1st covert overthrow of another other nation's government during peacetime. And you fucking idiots picked a democracy. WTF were you fantasizing about? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted January 9, 2020 Report Share Posted January 9, 2020 7 minutes ago, eyeball said: And you are very full of shit as always. Iran was your country's 1st covert overthrow of another other nation's government during peacetime. And you fucking idiots picked a democracy. WTF were you fantasizing about? Nonsense....as usual. See 19th and earlier 20th century. Constantly ignoring reality does not serve your positions very well...again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyeball Posted January 9, 2020 Report Share Posted January 9, 2020 (edited) 5 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said: Nonsense....as usual. See 19th and earlier 20th century. Show us...during peacetime...covertly...any year will do. Go get DOP in case you're feeling out of depth maybe he can help you. Cue some stupid comment about fishermen 3,2,1... Edited January 9, 2020 by eyeball Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted January 9, 2020 Report Share Posted January 9, 2020 2 minutes ago, eyeball said: Show us...during peacetime...covertly...any year will do. Go get DOP in case you're feeling out of depth maybe he can help you. No...your attempt to derail this topic will not succeed. Do you own homework to reveal the obvious. ...back to killing terrorist generals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyeball Posted January 9, 2020 Report Share Posted January 9, 2020 Just now, bush_cheney2004 said: No...your attempt to corner me will no succeed...erorr..error...can not compute... FIFY Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marocc Posted January 9, 2020 Report Share Posted January 9, 2020 44 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said: The United States executed a terrorist who just happens to be an Iranian general. If you're in today's topic, it was a murder rather than excecution. 1 hour ago, bush_cheney2004 said: The US has and will continue to act for American interests. Like the kid at the back of the class... it okay for a country to protect its interests — but not on the expense of other countries. 1 hour ago, bush_cheney2004 said: You can't have it both ways, demanding American action and power only when it supports other interests I've never demanded that the US acts. The reason I don't say 'stay home altogether' is that it isn't right to say so. If that's what America chooses to do, please — but all countries should have basic freedom to cooperate with other countries. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted January 9, 2020 Report Share Posted January 9, 2020 1 hour ago, Marocc said: If you're in today's topic, it was a murder rather than excecution. Okay...it was the murder of a terrorist...not the first..and certainly not the last. And not only by the United States. The dear general's family can seek justice and compensation in the courts. Quote Like the kid at the back of the class... it okay for a country to protect its interests — but not on the expense of other countries. It's "okay" either way. Quote I've never demanded that the US acts. Well...it's not really about you specifically. Quote The reason I don't say 'stay home altogether' is that it isn't right to say so. If that's what America chooses to do, please — but all countries should have basic freedom to cooperate with other countries. That's the rub...few actually do "stay home"...including Canada. So that horse left the barn long ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marocc Posted January 9, 2020 Report Share Posted January 9, 2020 3 hours ago, bush_cheney2004 said: Constantly ignoring reality does not serve your positions very well...again. What is reality for you? Are you aware how your life and your environment has shaped your mind, your emotional life, your ideals and aspirations? Technically, there is no such thing as an objective reality. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marocc Posted January 9, 2020 Report Share Posted January 9, 2020 1 hour ago, bush_cheney2004 said: It's "okay" either way Then you have no problem with terrorists in governments, oppressors of peoples, stealing from your country, breaking international laws or disobeying contracts. 1 hour ago, bush_cheney2004 said: it's not really about you specifically. You said "you can't have it both ways," when there is a middle way. 1 hour ago, bush_cheney2004 said: So that horse left the barn long ago. I don't see an issue. It's okay not to stay 'at home', but one has to be capable of deciding when to stay and when to go. Usually governments get someone capable into the leading position. I guess it's gonna bite US in the ass soon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted January 9, 2020 Report Share Posted January 9, 2020 4 minutes ago, Marocc said: What is reality for you? Are you aware how your life and your environment has shaped your mind, your emotional life, your ideals and aspirations? Technically, there is no such thing as an objective reality. It is made much more objective by ignoring "moral" imperatives. The United States assassinated an Iranian general with known complicity for attacks on Americans and allies...just like many others. What makes this general so special ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted January 9, 2020 Report Share Posted January 9, 2020 1 minute ago, Marocc said: Then you have no problem with terrorists in governments, oppressors of peoples, stealing from your country, breaking international laws or disobeying contracts. None....mine has long been the amoral position. Nothing special here.... Quote You said "you can't have it both ways," when there is a middle way. Sorry...I meant in the general sense and usage of the term. Not a personal burden. Quote I don't see an issue. It's okay not to stay 'at home', but one has to be capable of deciding when to stay and when to go. Usually governments get someone capable into the leading position. No...that decision will always be informed by other, biased factors. If America chooses to "stay home", there are other consequences. Quote I guess it's gonna bite US in the ass soon. Won't be the first time....the US has endured far worse than a pissed off Iran. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marocc Posted January 10, 2020 Report Share Posted January 10, 2020 12 hours ago, bush_cheney2004 said: It is made much more objective by ignoring "moral" imperatives. Moral imperatives are the reality of mankind though. You can't ignore them unless you're a monster. If you pretend to ignore them you're just a hypocrite. 12 hours ago, bush_cheney2004 said: What makes this general so special ? What makes your life special? If one was to be killed tomorrow in an American military operation and you could choose it to be you or someone else you don't know, what would you choose? What would give you the right to choose? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted January 10, 2020 Report Share Posted January 10, 2020 1 minute ago, Marocc said: Moral imperatives are the reality of mankind though. You can't ignore them unless you're a monster. If you pretend to ignore them you're just a hypocrite. Okay...I won't ignore that they are important to you. Quote What makes your life special? If one was to be killed tomorrow in an American military operation and you could choose it to be you or someone else you don't know, what would you choose? What would give you the right to choose? My life is not special compared to any other. Those who serve know what that means....I certainly did. So this general was not special either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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