Hal 9000 Posted November 21, 2019 Report Share Posted November 21, 2019 1 hour ago, Boges said: Again a crime is not the bar. It's the abuse of power. It's beyond anyone's reasonable sense of logic to assume anything but the idea that these investigations were political in nature. Just with that, they're inappropriate for a President to ask for. Multiple witnesses, even ones called by the GOP, have testified to that. A Quid Pro Quo is always up for interpretation. No one goes around speaking like that. The idea that you need the announcement of a politically motivated investigation to get anything from Trump is a textbook definition of a Quid Pro Quo. Multiple witness have testified that this was their directive. If your bar is Trump on Record saying "I want a Quid Pro Quo", that's a laughably high bar. Trump has been a real estate developer in New York. He has seen his share of shakedowns from building inspectors, land owners, politicians, unions and the mob to name a few. I'm sure he understands the concept of quid pro quo. I'll agree that a quid pro quo is up for interpretation, if fact, in politics they're almost implied, but a presumed quid pro quo is week at best. Sure, they might impeach, but with this testimony, it's dead in the senate. The Dems know it, they just want to use the "impeached president" "saved by a corrupt GOP" as headlines for the election. That's all we're seeing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestCanMan Posted November 21, 2019 Report Share Posted November 21, 2019 1 hour ago, Boges said: Again a crime is not the bar. It's the abuse of power. Abuse of power, like getting HBiden an $80K per month job at a corrupt company and then using the full weight of the US Gov't to block an investigation into that company? Quote It's beyond anyone's reasonable sense of logic to assume anything but the idea that these investigations were political in nature. That's a lie, as usual. When Trump brought up investigations, right after the Javelin comment, Trump was referring only to crowdstrike, which was regarding an investigation in Trump himself. The Dems were using the full might of the judicial system to try to pin any type of crime whatsoever on Trump, it's perfectly fine for him to want to find exculpatory evidence. He never asked for a specific outcome, just to find the truth. Oooooh, the truth. Who needs that, right Boges? You certainly don't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
godzilla Posted November 21, 2019 Author Report Share Posted November 21, 2019 (edited) again, if the Bidens need to be investigated then so be it. but the impeachment inquiry is not the venue. and Trump doesn't get off of shanking because of it. that's just the rule of law and how it works when its allowed to work properly. and this constant push by Rs to support Russian narratives. its a very good example of the power of populism when a politician can take a very long history of facts that define Russia as an aggressive enemy and then suddenly, with a bit of cult of personality, it all goes away. Russia is suddenly a friend! Edited November 21, 2019 by godzilla Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cannucklehead Posted November 21, 2019 Report Share Posted November 21, 2019 10 minutes ago, godzilla said: again, if the Bidens need to be investigated then so be it. but the impeachment inquiry is not the venue. and Trump doesn't get off of shanking because of it. that's just the rule of law and how it works when its allowed to work properly. and this constant push by Rs to support Russian narratives. its a very good example of the power of populism when a politician can take a very long history of facts that define Russia as an aggressive enemy and then suddenly, with a bit of cult of personality, it all goes away. Russia is suddenly a friend! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestCanMan Posted November 21, 2019 Report Share Posted November 21, 2019 7 minutes ago, godzilla said: again, if the Bidens need to be investigated then so be it. but the impeachment inquiry is not the venue. and Trump doesn't get off of shanking because of it. that's just the rule of law and how it works when its allowed to work properly. and this constant push by Rs to support Russian narratives. its a very good example of the power of populism when a politician can take a very long history of facts that define Russia as an aggressive enemy and then suddenly, with a bit of cult of personality, it all goes away. Russia is suddenly a friend! Trump did nothing that the Dems haven't been doing since 2015, and he didn't covertly funnel money through a law firm for it or withhold aid ($1B in lon guarantees) to do it. No one in the GOP is supporting Russian efforts. The GOP warned that the Dems that Russia was going to try to interfere and the Dems scoffed. Now the Russians got involved in the election process to sow discord between the parties and the Dems went for it like a liberal chasing a fake news story. Putin has a red laser and the Dems are running into furniture chasing it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestCanMan Posted November 21, 2019 Report Share Posted November 21, 2019 2 minutes ago, Cannucklehead said: Putin has a red laser and the Dems have been chasing it for 3 years. Idiots. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boges Posted November 21, 2019 Report Share Posted November 21, 2019 4 hours ago, Hal 9000 said: Trump has been a real estate developer in New York. He has seen his share of shakedowns from building inspectors, land owners, politicians, unions and the mob to name a few. I'm sure he understands the concept of quid pro quo. I'll agree that a quid pro quo is up for interpretation, if fact, in politics they're almost implied, but a presumed quid pro quo is week at best. Sure, they might impeach, but with this testimony, it's dead in the senate. The Dems know it, they just want to use the "impeached president" "saved by a corrupt GOP" as headlines for the election. That's all we're seeing. People always contend that the Mueller Report clear Trump. It doesn't, it just doesn't make a conclusive commentary on his guild because he couldn't be indicted anyway. There's plenty of evidence that Trump committed crimes. Mueller kicked it to Congress to draw their conclusions. Pelosi did a cost benefit analysis that the Mueller Report was too pointy headed to risk and impeachment fight over. But when overwhelming evidence arises that show that Trump is using the power of the presidency to dig up dirt on potential opponents, that's not something you can just ignore. The GOP will be on record as supporting a POTUS using his power to try and get another country to influence the US elections. And that'll have consequences. . . one would hope. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boges Posted November 21, 2019 Report Share Posted November 21, 2019 3 hours ago, WestCanMan said: Putin has a red laser and the Dems have been chasing it for 3 years. Idiots. Trump does Putin's business all the time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yzermandius19 Posted November 21, 2019 Report Share Posted November 21, 2019 Just now, Boges said: Trump does Putin's business all the time. It's Trump's laser pointer. Not Putin's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
godzilla Posted November 21, 2019 Author Report Share Posted November 21, 2019 good arguments today by Ds and the usual nothing to see here by Rs. I thought the final comparison with Nixon was just as I'd stated previously... Nixon was a lightweight! Trump is all about the "big stuff". go big or go home, right!? hhahaa. I sure hope for the sake of all democracies that the next president publicly announces the desire for regime change in Russia. US citizens should demand it. Russia has fucked with US elections and they should be fucked back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boges Posted November 21, 2019 Report Share Posted November 21, 2019 4 hours ago, WestCanMan said: Abuse of power, like getting HBiden an $80K per month job at a corrupt company and then using the full weight of the US Gov't to block an investigation into that company? That's a lie, as usual. When Trump brought up investigations, right after the Javelin comment, Trump was referring only to crowdstrike, which was regarding an investigation in Trump himself. The Dems were using the full might of the judicial system to try to pin any type of crime whatsoever on Trump, it's perfectly fine for him to want to find exculpatory evidence. He never asked for a specific outcome, just to find the truth. Oooooh, the truth. Who needs that, right Boges? You certainly don't. Dr. Fiona Hill completely refuted that Crowdstrike is an actual thing today. It's only a kooky Right-Wing conspiracy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boges Posted November 21, 2019 Report Share Posted November 21, 2019 Just now, Yzermandius19 said: It's Trump's laser pointer. Not Putin's. Trump doesn't have the intellect to actually implement a cohesive strategy. He just lies to create his own narrative and hopes the Rubes that follow him buy it. Typical Con Man routine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted November 21, 2019 Report Share Posted November 21, 2019 3 minutes ago, Boges said: Trump does Putin's business all the time. So ? Remember this....probably not..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
godzilla Posted November 21, 2019 Author Report Share Posted November 21, 2019 (edited) So?!!!! So?!!! like as in "So what?!" Russia is your friend? if you love Trump then you love Russia? really? 2012? isn't that like... you know, before Russia fucked with your election? was Vlad afraid that things wouldn't be so cool as they were with Obama then with Clinton? Edited November 21, 2019 by godzilla Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boges Posted November 21, 2019 Report Share Posted November 21, 2019 4 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said: So ? Remember this....probably not..... Obama didn't need Russia to get elected. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted November 21, 2019 Report Share Posted November 21, 2019 Just now, Boges said: Obama didn't need Russia to get elected. Yes he did....and Obama just watched Russia annex the Crimea. Russia matters...get over it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boges Posted November 21, 2019 Report Share Posted November 21, 2019 Just now, bush_cheney2004 said: Yes he did. Cite Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
godzilla Posted November 21, 2019 Author Report Share Posted November 21, 2019 so you voted Trump because he would be tougher on Russia? that makes no sense... Trump supporters can just kindly state... is Russia an adversary who fucks with your election? or just some nice guys who keep evil Democrats out of office (and where were they in 2018 when you needed them?) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted November 21, 2019 Report Share Posted November 21, 2019 Just now, Boges said: Cite You already got your cite...straight from President Obama's mouth Canada depends far more on the USA than Russia. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boges Posted November 21, 2019 Report Share Posted November 21, 2019 Just now, bush_cheney2004 said: You already got your cite...straight from President Obama's mouth Canada depends far more on the USA than Russia. That's not a well orchestrated attempt to get Obama elected. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted November 21, 2019 Report Share Posted November 21, 2019 1 minute ago, Boges said: That's not a well orchestrated attempt to get Obama elected. No, it was well orchestrated to get Obama re-elected. Obama and Russia good...Trump and Russia bad....got it. /s Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boges Posted November 21, 2019 Report Share Posted November 21, 2019 2 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said: No, it was well orchestrated to get Obama re-elected. Well it appears you can't hear very well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cannucklehead Posted November 21, 2019 Report Share Posted November 21, 2019 8 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said: Yes he did....and Obama just watched Russia annex the Crimea. Russia matters...get over it. Obama sanctioned Russia over the annexation. Perhaps you'd prefer trump top that and declare war? I'm with you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
godzilla Posted November 21, 2019 Author Report Share Posted November 21, 2019 3 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said: No, it was well orchestrated to get Obama re-elected. Obama and Russia good...Trump and Russia bad....got it. /s do you even know what Obama was there to talk to the Russians about? cause guess what... it wasn't the invasion of Ukraine. and Obama is not a fan. Trump... a fan! they can have Crimea. state your case by first answering the following: Russia, adversary or friend? Crimea, Ukraines or Russias? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hal 9000 Posted November 21, 2019 Report Share Posted November 21, 2019 22 minutes ago, godzilla said: good arguments today by Ds and the usual nothing to see here by Rs. I thought the final comparison with Nixon was just as I'd stated previously... Nixon was a lightweight! Trump is all about the "big stuff". go big or go home, right!? hhahaa. I sure hope for the sake of all democracies that the next president publicly announces the desire for regime change in Russia. US citizens should demand it. Russia has fucked with US elections and they should be fucked back. I doubt president Ivanka would do that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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