Should Don Cherry Have Been Fired?

[Army Guy]

On 11/13/2019 at 1:48 PM, jacee said:

Wow.

Those libelous accusations require explanation of how I am "racist" and how I support "violent extremists". 

As for age discrimination ... Don Cherry wasn't fired because of his age, but for his racism. It isn't his first offense either. If he had been 'retired' after earlier offenses, he wouldn't have had to be fired in shame. I am putting that responsibility on his employers because I feel they bear responsibility for that: They kept him on well past his level of competency to suck every dollar they could out of his popularity, until his incompetence ultimately shamed him. An employer who does that to an employee is a bloodsucking parasite. 

It is also illegal to fire a person due to age alone is it not. So as long as he meets his conditions of employment then he should be fine. 

I think what all the snowflakes are missing here is Don Cherry has been a huge contributor to the NHL and the Game itself, and is one of the Icons of the sport, I can't think of anyone you has done more, he's had played, coached, produced instructional hockey camps for kids that was on TV for years, produced rock em sock em tapes that highlighted the best hits, goals saves, and plays that year had to offer, anyone who did not get atleast one of these tapes for Xmas is a lair, coaches corner has highlighted the good, bad and ugly in the games, for all to learn off of... He has done all this for most of his life...given to the game...and we are so quick to throw him to the dogs over something he has already said he did not articulate very well... but screw that, this is 2019 baby,  get the rope some white boy is using them words again Martha….and the words "you people" means your directing it at brown people, because Toronto apparently has no other colors...when seconds ago in his conversation he was talking about the majority of people in Toronto and some other city in Ontario....

What the snowflakes also missed was NOV 11 was about remembering our nations soldiers, it's a day set aside for Canadian citizens to thank or pay tribute to it's military members, yes all of them white, brown, black the entire rainbow, even the purple ones with warts on their d*cks , just in case I forgot anyone ,or any color... ....it comes by only once a year...I get it we all lead busy lives, no time to spare....either can't find poppies or can't afford to buy a poppy or don't care....or the thousands of other reasons  you have...You do what you do best .... Vets also know that Canada is not very concerned with anything military, or honoring it's citizens that picked up our nations call... But there is the other side of the coin.. there are still lots of people who do take this paying of tribute seriously, Don Cherry was one of them...he never missed a chance to shake a soldiers hand and say thanks, he visited Afghanistan on several occasions to once again pay tribute...perhaps he was over zealous in his attempt to get more people YES "you people " those that did not wear a poppy, whether your black, brown, white, pink with green strips,  "everyone" (can I use that it's not racist is it) to feel the way he did....and this is the way we repay him...sometimes I think this nation is a little ungrateful....

This is what made the main news feed on NOV 11...

To those Canadians that did wear a poppy , or attended a ceremony, or payed tribute in your own way.... I  want to thank you, for your time and effort and for giving me the honor to serve this great nation.  I spent the day with 8 of my good friends, talking , laughing, even crying , telling war stories about comrades no longer here.. drinking way to much...it's our way to keep our promise to never forget them or their sacrifice...

 

[Zeitgeist]

I don’t think people like Jacee realize the real and lasting hurt that firing someone like Don Cherry causes.  While his choice of words was poor, it didn’t warrant that treatment.  The truth is that nothing he said was especially hurtful to anyone, but we’re definitely in a culture of catching people out.  Jacee revels in this without realizing that this isn’t about left versus right but rather about decency.  Does your grandfather always use perfect language?  Do your friends for that matter?  Do you?  It’s fine to be upset with people, but termination shuts down dialogue, prevents growth and understanding, and ultimately breeds contempt.  Is that the kind of Canada we want?  Cherry may need to do better, but so does Sportsnet.  

Edited November 15, 2019 by Zeitgeist

[Right To Left]

On 11/11/2019 at 5:02 PM, Rue said:

I teach 5 classes at colleges and universities which is 95 percent new Canadians and never have I seen a student wear a poppy. Does it make me evil to say that? 

Do you say: "you people" never wear a poppy?

I'm not that big of a hockey fan anymore....maybe too many teams, too much money and bs. But I remember back when Ron McLean and Don Cherry first started doing this Coach's Corner segment, it was all about hockey! Not Conservative party propaganda, which is what Cherry tried to turn it into especially when Harper was Prime Minister, and trying to create more Canadian Fallen Heroes in Afghanistan! After that, if I'm watching a game, I never watched Coach's Corner! 

Drifting a little off topic, even though I found Don entertaining......in a pro wrestler heel sort of way, it's been lost on me why so many younger hockey fans and viewers think he's the ultimate expert on the game. I've always felt that the greatest coaches were the ones who turned losing teams around and even won Stanley Cups....like one of Don's contemporaries - Scotty Bowman. He was likely the greatest coach of the 60's thru 80's era, but if you were ever around him, it was obvious that he wasn't the kind of guy who would light up a crowd or pull in the TV audience!

[Army Guy]

16 hours ago, Right To Left said:

Do you say: "you people" never wear a poppy?

I'm not that big of a hockey fan anymore....maybe too many teams, too much money and bs. But I remember back when Ron McLean and Don Cherry first started doing this Coach's Corner segment, it was all about hockey! Not Conservative party propaganda, which is what Cherry tried to turn it into especially when Harper was Prime Minister, and trying to create more Canadian Fallen Heroes in Afghanistan! After that, if I'm watching a game, I never watched Coach's Corner! 

Drifting a little off topic, even though I found Don entertaining......in a pro wrestler heel sort of way, it's been lost on me why so many younger hockey fans and viewers think he's the ultimate expert on the game. I've always felt that the greatest coaches were the ones who turned losing teams around and even won Stanley Cups....like one of Don's contemporaries - Scotty Bowman. He was likely the greatest coach of the 60's thru 80's era, but if you were ever around him, it was obvious that he wasn't the kind of guy who would light up a crowd or pull in the TV audience!

He was one of the few Canadians that supported the troops during the Afghanistan conflict, He's always had our backs...through thick and thin....he made trips there on several occasions 

I traveled 6 hours in the Back of LAV III in plus 50 weather just to meet the man, in Afghanistan....He did not disappoint, so I guess it is all in the eye of the beholder...

[Right To Left]

4 hours ago, Army Guy said:

He was one of the few Canadians that supported the troops during the Afghanistan conflict, He's always had our backs...through thick and thin....he made trips there on several occasions 

I traveled 6 hours in the Back of LAV III in plus 50 weather just to meet the man, in Afghanistan....He did not disappoint, so I guess it is all in the eye of the beholder...

As I see it, supporting the troops doesn't mean trying to create more dead soldiers in pointless wars, where there's nothing to gain except destroying poor countries and turning them into anarchy. Face it, generals and chicken hawk political leaders (Harper) who want to look like warriors....standing with the troops, are quick to throw soldiers in without thinking through whether we should be following the US into quagmires like Afghanistan, or wars for profit, like Syria and Iraq were intended to be.

But these are not thoughts that will cross the mind of someone like Don Cherry, who I doubt ever put on a uniform and fought in a war zone....which was common for a long stretch in the Canadian Armed Forces, when all we got was stationed at NATO bases, radar installations and a few were sent to do UN peacekeeping duties, though that could turn out to be a lot more dangerous than advertised! As much as I disliked Jean Chretien, I give him credit for keeping the Canadian presence in Afghanistan to just doing the basics....trying to win the trust of local tribal leaders and engaging the Taliban when they were on the attack, but NOT sending in tanks and going on the offense, like Harper started as soon as he took office!

But  it seems time and time again, the most gung ho military and war promoters are the chicken hawks who only know war movies and video games in more recent times. And that's likely a big part of the reason why Afghanistan gets worse every year now, even though the US has made it the most bombed country in history

 

 

Edited November 16, 2019 by Right To Left

[Rue]

On ‎11‎/‎15‎/‎2019 at 2:35 AM, Right To Left said:

Do you say: "you people" never wear a poppy?

I'm not that big of a hockey fan anymore....maybe too many teams, too much money and bs. But I remember back when Ron McLean and Don Cherry first started doing this Coach's Corner segment, it was all about hockey! Not Conservative party propaganda, which is what Cherry tried to turn it into especially when Harper was Prime Minister, and trying to create more Canadian Fallen Heroes in Afghanistan! After that, if I'm watching a game, I never watched Coach's Corner! 

Drifting a little off topic, even though I found Don entertaining......in a pro wrestler heel sort of way, it's been lost on me why so many younger hockey fans and viewers think he's the ultimate expert on the game. I've always felt that the greatest coaches were the ones who turned losing teams around and even won Stanley Cups....like one of Don's contemporaries - Scotty Bowman. He was likely the greatest coach of the 60's thru 80's era, but if you were ever around him, it was obvious that he wasn't the kind of guy who would light up a crowd or pull in the TV audience!

Don Cherry actually will be the first to tell you he was a lousy coach and be the first to tell you an idiot could coach a team with Bobby Orr and still win because of Orr. He never claimed to be anything but a lousy coach.

Next its not conservative propaganda to say wear a poppy. Honouring the sacrifice people made so we can live in freedom is not a conservative or liberal exercise.

So the words "you people"  offends you...  Got it. Your opinion of those 2 words and what they mean  now gives you the right to censor him and vilify him and demonstrate the very behavior soldiers died to try prevent from being imposed on Canadians. Got it.

 

 

Edited November 16, 2019 by Rue

[Rue]

On ‎11‎/‎15‎/‎2019 at 2:35 AM, Right To Left said:

Do you say: "you people" never wear a poppy?

 

Yah I said never wear a poppy. That does not make me  conservative to notice that, but it does annoy me.   You people who do not wear poppies annoy the snot out of me.

Don Cherry is a racist.

 

Edited November 16, 2019 by Rue

[jacee]

On 11/13/2019 at 6:05 PM, WestCanMan said:

The whole post doesn't show for some reason. Can't miss out on seeing your racist wishlist at the end again:

That's racist (and sexist, but mostly racist).

White male behaviour in hiring is racist. That's a well-proven fact. 

Me reporting the truth about that scientific fact ... not racist. 

You claiming I'm being racist in reporting facts of racism in hiring ... twisting and spinning nonsense.

 

[jacee]

On 11/14/2019 at 11:32 PM, Zeitgeist said:

I don’t think people like Jacee realize the real and lasting hurt that firing someone like Don Cherry causes.  While his choice of words was poor, it didn’t warrant that treatment.  The truth is that nothing he said was especially hurtful to anyone, but we’re definitely in a culture of catching people out.  Jacee revels in this without realizing that this isn’t about left versus right but rather about decency.  Does your grandfather always use perfect language?  Do your friends for that matter?  Do you?  It’s fine to be upset with people, but termination shuts down dialogue, prevents growth and understanding, and ultimately breeds contempt.  Is that the kind of Canada we want?  Cherry may need to do better, but so does Sportsnet.  

Firing people for racism that damages a business is an employer's right. Are you suggesting the law should prevent employers from firing people who damage their business? 

Plenty of people were hurt, thus the massive public backlash that led to his firing.

If someone else thinks Cherry is still employable, bankable, they're free to hire him.

Free speech has consequences. Protecting assholes and white supremacists from the consequences of their racist rants is a coddling nanny-society approach. Everyone is free to fail and to learn from consequences. Unfortunately, Cherry has proven incapable of learning.

Edited November 16, 2019 by jacee

[Michael Hardner]

4 minutes ago, jacee said:

Firing people for racism that damages a business is an employer's right.  

Furthermore... the lax attitude many people are having to racism is causing those who are concerned to become even more militant.   Lisa Raitt was just on a podcast where she talked about how people on the campaign trail told her the Conservative party was unconcerned with racism.  Not exactly the brand you want to have in a city that is growing thanks to a global economy.   

I didn't care either way about Cherry but on the other hand, those concerned with the feelings of a very wealthy 85 year old dude maybe should prioritize a bit.

[dialamah]

1 hour ago, Rue said:

Yah I said never wear a poppy. That does not make me  conservative to notice that, but it does annoy me.   You people who do not wear poppies annoy the snot out of me.

Don Cherry is a racist.

 

I wear that little band they have now; I can wear it all day (and all night if I forget to take it off), it doesn't fall of while I'm walking the dogs or running for the bus, and I don't forget to move it to the coat I'm wearing today.  It's true that you might not notice it and be "annoyed" because of your assumptions about me based on something you don't happen to see.  Seems pretty silly to me.

[dialamah]

On 11/14/2019 at 8:32 PM, Zeitgeist said:

 While his choice of words was poor, it didn’t warrant that treatment.  The truth is that nothing he said was especially hurtful to anyone,

This line of thinking sounds very much like the excuses used by men when they're caught out doing something inappropriate "It wasn't that bad, she wasn't really hurt by it, sure I could have not said what I did, but what's the big deal."

I don't wear a poppy, but I didn't come here for "milk and honey", I was born here as was my mother, grandmother and great-grandmother.  Cherry's comments about "they like our milk and honey" was directed toward immigrants, and more specifically toward brown/black people, because they are the ones who are assumed to be immigrants based only on what can be seen, which is the color of their skin.  I'd bet dollars to donuts that if Cherry had seen me, he wouldn't even notice the lack of a poppy on my person, because I'm white.

[dialamah]

On 11/13/2019 at 9:59 AM, Dougie93 said:

I don't want Don to be rehired, he's more useful as a martyr, to whip up hatred against the left.

Why would you want to whip up hatred against anyone?   What good does it do?  

[Dougie93]

3 minutes ago, dialamah said:

Why would you want to whip up hatred against anyone?   What good does it do?  

This is an Information War just as Marshal McLuhan predicted, the totalitarian left are my ideological enemies, I wish to do them and their agenda harm.

[dialamah]

On 11/14/2019 at 2:08 PM, Army Guy said:

Yes , I've seen 2 media columns on this already, both have taken it as far as you have , they actually said it was directed towards brown people....I might not be the brightest bulb in the pack but how does you people translate into brown people....or as you have pointed out people of color....is there a liberal dictionary out there , or some secret handshake we need to know so we don't trigger any more snow flakes...

Because his comment is based only on what he can see about a person walking around:  their color and whether or not they are wearing a poppy.  White people are assumed, on sight, to be "Canadians".  Brown people are assumed, on sight, to be immigrants .  He said "You people who come here" - which would be immigrants. 

He's basically saying "I saw so many people who are clearly immigrants (black/brown) don't wear poppies; they take advantage of our way of life and don't show respect".  Plenty of white people don't wear poppies, too, I've noticed (me included), but because I'm white, he would not group me in with "you people who come here".   I, and all white people not wearing poppies, are excluded from his accusations of lack of respect/coming here for milk and honey, and way of life, merely because of the color of our skin.

[dialamah]

4 minutes ago, Dougie93 said:

This is an Information War just as Marshal McLuhan predicted, the totalitarian left are my ideological enemies, I wish to do them and their agenda harm.

Well then you're no different in your thought process that than the incel who drove his van into as many women as he could, or the folks who drove planes into the world trade center.  Yah, yah ... I know you've never actually 'killed' any of your ideological enemies and you'll likely claim that you'd stop short of murder, but it's you and your ilk, regardless of which ideology you claim to abide by, or claim to hate enough to harm, that makes the world a worse place for everybody.  

[Dougie93]

8 minutes ago, dialamah said:

Well then you're no different in your thought process that than the incel who drove his van into as many women as he could, or the folks who drove planes into the world trade center.  Yah, yah ... I know you've never actually 'killed' any of your ideological enemies and you'll likely claim that you'd stop short of murder, but it's you and your ilk, regardless of which ideology you claim to abide by, or claim to hate enough to harm, that makes the world a worse place for everybody.  

You would say that, because we are enemies, but as such, your words carry no weight with me, you are simply seeking praise from your leftist cohorts, makes no difference to me.

[Zeitgeist]

37 minutes ago, dialamah said:

This line of thinking sounds very much like the excuses used by men when they're caught out doing something inappropriate "It wasn't that bad, she wasn't really hurt by it, sure I could have not said what I did, but what's the big deal."

I don't wear a poppy, but I didn't come here for "milk and honey", I was born here as was my mother, grandmother and great-grandmother.  Cherry's comments about "they like our milk and honey" was directed toward immigrants, and more specifically toward brown/black people, because they are the ones who are assumed to be immigrants based only on what can be seen, which is the color of their skin.  I'd bet dollars to donuts that if Cherry had seen me, he wouldn't even notice the lack of a poppy on my person, because I'm white.

What are you talking about?  “Milk and honey” is a reference to the Land of Milk and Honey, the Promised Land Moses tried to enter in the Old Testament.  Nothing to do with racism.  I used to think that generally the right was more ignorant than the left, but I’m seeing far too many counter examples to ignore.  

Edited November 16, 2019 by Zeitgeist

[dialamah]

3 minutes ago, Dougie93 said:

You would say that, because we are enemies, but as such, your words carry no weight with me, you are simply seeking praise from your leftist cohorts, makes no difference to me.

Speaking of praise for cohorts, you know what's funny?  It was perhaps before your time, but when this forum implemented 'likes' on posts, a bunch of conservatives whined about how leftists would 'gang up' and like each other's posts but because the conservatives were such free thinkers, and independent minded, not needing support, they'd not be doing that.  Oddly, however, it was just the opposite.  And even now, if you look at the 'leader' boards, it's always the "most conservative" of the conservatives who are at the top of the board.

So who is posting for praise really?

See, I don't consider you an enemy.  You're weird, too weird a lot of the time to even respond to.   

I don't personally care that Cherry was fired; I never liked him and don't even watch hockey.  But his comments were certainly racist in nature.

[dialamah]

1 minute ago, Zeitgeist said:

What are you talking about?  “Milk and honey” is a reference to the Land of Milk and Honey, the Promised Land Moses tried to enter in the Old Testament.  

So you don't actually know what Cherry said?  Ok then.

[Dougie93]

1 minute ago, dialamah said:

Speaking of praise for cohorts, you know what's funny?  It was perhaps before your time, but when this forum implemented 'likes' on posts, a bunch of conservatives whined about how leftists would 'gang up' and like each other's posts but because the conservatives were such free thinkers, and independent minded, not needing support, they'd not be doing that.  Oddly, however, it was just the opposite.  And even now, if you look at the 'leader' boards, it's always the "most conservative" of the conservatives who are at the top of the board.

So who is posting for praise really?

See, I don't consider you an enemy.  You're weird, too weird a lot of the time to even respond to.   

I don't personally care that Cherry was fired; I never liked him and don't even watch hockey.  But his comments were certainly racist in nature.

Most of the so called conservatives here are not as conservative as I am, Canadian conservatism is well to the left of my ideology,

I don't seek any response from you, feel free not to respond, I find your posts to be priggish blather of no particular interest nor insight.

[Zeitgeist]

1 hour ago, jacee said:

White male behaviour in hiring is racist. That's a well-proven fact. 

Me reporting the truth about that scientific fact ... not racist. 

You claiming I'm being racist in reporting facts of racism in hiring ... twisting and spinning nonsense.

 

Your claim that white male behaviour is racist is a racist generalization about all white males.  You don’t see the log in your own eye.  I often  disagree with Taxme and see racism in his remarks, but at least he knows what he is.  You fail to see your blatant bias and racism.  I’d rather have the likes of Don Cherry in my company than someone with your views, yet there are many people like you in positions of authority causing grief.  It’s a real problem.  

[Army Guy]

12 hours ago, Right To Left said:

As I see it, supporting the troops doesn't mean trying to create more dead soldiers in pointless wars, where there's nothing to gain except destroying poor countries and turning them into anarchy. Face it, generals and chicken hawk political leaders (Harper) who want to look like warriors....standing with the troops, are quick to throw soldiers in without thinking through whether we should be following the US into quagmires like Afghanistan, or wars for profit, like Syria and Iraq were intended to be.

 

Not even sure WTF this has to do with Don cherry at all, your quick to point out that it was harper who was the chicken hawk, and yet you give Mr. Chretien a free pass, I mean it was Mr Chretien who threw up his hand to send troops to Afghanistan in the first place, because he wanted nothing to do with the coalition going into Iraq, He did so against the military advice as we were not trained or equipped for this mission....he sent those troops in light , to hump the mountains to hunt down the Taliban and destroy what they could....not hand out blankets and teddy bears...why because he wanted his picture in the media....

Quote

But these are not thoughts that will cross the mind of someone like Don Cherry, who I doubt ever put on a uniform and fought in a war zone....which was common for a long stretch in the Canadian Armed Forces, when all we got was stationed at NATO bases, radar installations and a few were sent to do UN peacekeeping duties, though that could turn out to be a lot more dangerous than advertised! As much as I disliked Jean Chretien, I give him credit for keeping the Canadian presence in Afghanistan to just doing the basics....trying to win the trust of local tribal leaders and engaging the Taliban when they were on the attack, but NOT sending in tanks and going on the offense, like Harper started as soon as he took office!

Are you suggesting that if you have not worn a uniform you can't support the troops ? What are you going on about here ? You talk as if you had served during this time, not sure what it has to do with my post but sure give er …. as for the rest of the post Just doing the basics, if humping through the mountains killing every Taliban and terrorist they could is the basics then ya your right....but you skipped over that part and jumped to when we were in Kabul....when we patrolled in soft skin vehs , hunting down the Taliban where ever they were within the city....but hey WTF do I know...you can try and blame every on harper, but the decision to send in tanks was Chretien's, it takes time to refurb them with the new armor , train the crews, prepare them for shipment, find some one to fly them over....  It was however Harpers watch that upgraded those 40 year old tanks with new LEO IIA6M....In spring 2005 officials announced that the Canadian Forces would move back to the volatile Kandahar Province another liberal decision....to move us into one of the most contested zones of Afghanistan....onc e again with out the troops or right equipment. 

Quote

But  it seems time and time again, the most gung ho military and war promoters are the chicken hawks who only know war movies and video games in more recent times. And that's likely a big part of the reason why Afghanistan gets worse every year now, even though the US has made it the most bombed country in history

If that is a plug on towards me, your free to think what ever you want, I personally do give a f$$$k what you think, or how many movies you think I seen....what I do know is it was people like you with your attitude that left us high and dry in Afghanistan , without the manpower or the right equipment to do the job, and only when enough soldiers had died would we get some equipment but not enough to make a difference. Atleast we knew where don cherry stood, atleast he had the balls to risk his life to visit Canadians soldiers , he was'nt selling us any bullshit, he just want to see his troops...

[Army Guy]

1 hour ago, dialamah said:

Because his comment is based only on what he can see about a person walking around:  their color and whether or not they are wearing a poppy.  White people are assumed, on sight, to be "Canadians".  Brown people are assumed, on sight, to be immigrants .  He said "You people who come here" - which would be immigrants. 

He's basically saying "I saw so many people who are clearly immigrants (black/brown) don't wear poppies; they take advantage of our way of life and don't show respect".  Plenty of white people don't wear poppies, too, I've noticed (me included), but because I'm white, he would not group me in with "you people who come here".   I, and all white people not wearing poppies, are excluded from his accusations of lack of respect/coming here for milk and honey, and way of life, merely because of the color of our skin.

your making a lot of assumptions here, jumping to i'm not sure where....I think Webster's should be contacted and we should change the definition of you people to be clearly brown, black anyone that is non white....

[Teena]

40 minutes ago, dialamah said:

 

See, I don't consider you an enemy.  You're weird, too weird a lot of the time to even respond to.   

 

Lol ... Your certainly different Dougie93 but a good different