Lack of Conservative Confidence

[Queenmandy85]

Yesterday, Bob Fife reported in the Globe and Mail that Peter MacKay is planning to run for the leadership of the CPC. Hardly a vote of confidence in his party.

URL.webloc

[Argus]

I'm sure a lot of Conservatives are thinking of what will happen at the next leadership review after Andrew Scheer loses the upcoming election. I"m hoping he resigns before that happens, and that the Conservatives get someone further to the right, not left who will make it an actual conservative party, rather than the liberal light party it has become.

[DogOnPorch]

4 minutes ago, Argus said:

I'm sure a lot of Conservatives are thinking of what will happen at the next leadership review after Andrew Scheer loses the upcoming election. I"m hoping he resigns before that happens, and that the Conservatives get someone further to the right, not left who will make it an actual conservative party, rather than the liberal light party it has become.

 

I like Max over Andrew...but have to vote for Andrew. I think a lot of wavering Conservatives feel the same way. 

[Argus]

3 minutes ago, DogOnPorch said:

 

I like Max over Andrew...but have to vote for Andrew. I think a lot of wavering Conservatives feel the same way. 

The Conservatives have lost. They have made ZERO forward progress since the election was called. There is no chance of them getting a majority and no chance of them taking power without a majority. The other three parties are far and away more likely to support the Liberals, even if the Tories got more seats. And according to seat projections, the Liberals will get more seats anyway.

Edited October 11, 2019 by Argus

[DogOnPorch]

6 minutes ago, Argus said:

The Conservatives have lost. They have made ZERO forward progress since the election was called. There is no chance of them getting a majority and no chance of them taking power without a majority. The other three parties are far and away more likely to support the Liberals, even if the Tories got more seats. And according to seat projections, the Liberals will get more seats anyway.

 

I hate predicting horse races. We shall see.

[WestCanMan]

Polls and seat projections are total BS imo. I think that they are more of a tool to influence voters than an indicator of voter preferences.

CBC and CTV wouldn't even show polling results that didn't favour their darling. 

I just looked at the polls for 2011: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_for_the_2011_Canadian_federal_election#/media/File:ElectionPollingGraphCanada2011.png

CPC was trending around 36%, some had them lower than 35%, they got 40% (39.6%).

Nanos, who were fairly accurate with the CPC early on, had the Libs way up over 30% until a couple of weeks before the election. General consensus had them at about 27 or 28% over the same span. They got 19%. So Nanos was off by 12% less than two weeks before the election.

NDP, on avg,  were pegged at about 20% two weeks before the election, they finished at over 30%.

It seems as though the pollsters picked up their accuracy in the closing days of the election, but in the lead-up stages, where we ware now, they were way off. On Apr 17th they were about 10% too low on the NDP and 9% too high on the Liberals. If they're still off by 10% fifteen days before the election they're completely useless IMO.

 

It seems to me that in 2011 they could say what they wanted while people were in the decision-making process. They just tried to look good near the end.

[Army Guy]

2 hours ago, DogOnPorch said:

 

I like Max over Andrew...but have to vote for Andrew. I think a lot of wavering Conservatives feel the same way. 

I think your right DOP, this horse race is to close , and I don't think I can handle another 4 more years of Justin, the recover would be to painful,  although I am sure Andrew is not going to be much better, I'll be switching my vote to conservative... my fears are this is PCC might not get a seat, and collapse, and all their platform will disappear..but 4 more years would allow them to take their time and get better quality candidates and continue to develop a stronger platform... ..next fears is this, Scheer might swing his power for 2 terms...

[Queenmandy85]

If the CPC were to move further to the right, they would lose. Canadian voters are generally on the wide centre line. They are a little bit conservative and a little bit progressive. So if you want a conservative government, you want a Progressive Conservative party. 

[taxme]

3 hours ago, WestCanMan said:

Polls and seat projections are total BS imo. I think that they are more of a tool to influence voters than an indicator of voter preferences.

CBC and CTV wouldn't even show polling results that didn't favour their darling. 

I just looked at the polls for 2011: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_for_the_2011_Canadian_federal_election#/media/File:ElectionPollingGraphCanada2011.png

CPC was trending around 36%, some had them lower than 35%, they got 40% (39.6%).

Nanos, who were fairly accurate with the CPC early on, had the Libs way up over 30% until a couple of weeks before the election. General consensus had them at about 27 or 28% over the same span. They got 19%. So Nanos was off by 12% less than two weeks before the election.

NDP, on avg,  were pegged at about 20% two weeks before the election, they finished at over 30%.

It seems as though the pollsters picked up their accuracy in the closing days of the election, but in the lead-up stages, where we ware now, they were way off. On Apr 17th they were about 10% too low on the NDP and 9% too high on the Liberals. If they're still off by 10% fifteen days before the election they're completely useless IMO.

 

It seems to me that in 2011 they could say what they wanted while people were in the decision-making process. They just tried to look good near the end.

No one should ever believe our Canadian leftist paid off liberal Canadian media anymore and what the liberal polls have to say. Who took the polls and where were the polls taken? The Canadian leftist liberal Canadian media will be trying to make it appear as though Blackface will win the election. The polls that said that Hillary would be the the next President turned out to be totally wrong. Only after the election is over is the poll that I will look at and believe.

I am not impressed with Scheer but he has to be a lot better than what we have right now. No one can be that stupid to want to see Blackface win the next election, but sadly, there are many who still want him as their next dictator PM of Canada. A majority or minority Blackface government will make no difference because Blackface will have the backing of May and Singh, and he will be allowed to continue on his road to the destruction of Canada, and hand Canada over to the globalist United Nations, and Marxist globalist G. Soros. Canada cannot survive another four more years of globalist Marxist Blackface. I am truly sad to see Maxine Bernier in last place in those polls taken. Hopefully that is not the case. Bernier has to be higher in the polls than what the Canadian paid off media show him to be. Just saying.  

[taxme]

1 hour ago, Army Guy said:

I think your right DOP, this horse race is to close , and I don't think I can handle another 4 more years of Justin, the recover would be to painful,  although I am sure Andrew is not going to be much better, I'll be switching my vote to conservative... my fears are this is PCC might not get a seat, and collapse, and all their platform will disappear..but 4 more years would allow them to take their time and get better quality candidates and continue to develop a stronger platform... ..next fears is this, Scheer might swing his power for 2 terms...

If the PPC can at least gain a couple or three seats in parliament then that will be a good sign and give Bernier a chance to get his platforms across even more to we the people. I will be off today and vote, and I will be voting for Bernier no matter what the hell happens. I just cannot vote for anyone else although I saw today on TV that Scheer says that he is going to do something about illegal immigration. One of my pet peeves.  At least that is what he is saying right now. After the election, could that change? Scheer after all is liberal light, and liberals can never be trusted in what they say. They will lie to us all to get our vote. It is going to be interesting times ahead. 

[DogOnPorch]

Just now, taxme said:

If the PPC can at least gain a couple or three seats in parliament then that will be a good sign and give Bernier a chance to get his platforms across even more to we the people. I will be off today and vote, and I will be voting for Bernier no matter what the hell happens. I just cannot vote for anyone else although I saw today on TV that Scheer says that he is going to do something about illegal immigration. One of my pet peeves.  At least that is what he is saying right now. After the election, could that change? Scheer after all is liberal light, and liberals can never be trusted in what they say. They will lie to us all to get our vote. It is going to be interesting times ahead. 

 

I think they have a very good future. But the scant few months they've had to ready themselves has left regular conservatives thinking of switching with some pretty iffy choices for candidates.

At this point in time it's ANYBODY but Trudeau as long as it isn't May...well...that narrows it down, eh?

[Argus]

2 hours ago, Queenmandy85 said:

If the CPC were to move further to the right, they would lose. Canadian voters are generally on the wide centre line. They are a little bit conservative and a little bit progressive. So if you want a conservative government, you want a Progressive Conservative party. 

Let me suggest a more rightward platform which would not turn off most centrist Canadians.

1) On immigration. We would be cutting immigration in half (63% of Canadians want lower immigration) but also holding a study, done by unbiased experts, to determine what exactly immigration is capable of doing for us, what it is presently doing for us, and how to best adjust our immigrant mix and level for best results. This would include wide input from average Canadians (as opposed to biased interest groups), demographics experts and economists

2) On Health Care. We would be eliminating the Canada Health Act. We will instead adopt the best of European health care systems. This will include talks with the provinces to centralize health care financing so that there is just one health insurance payment system for all Canadians, and centralizing the purchase of drugs. We will be working with the provinces to increase the number of doctors and the number of senior care facilities

3) On Taxation. We will be reorganizing the tax system into a graduated flat tax, and increasing the GST, which would play a larger role in taxation as income tax drops.

4) On The military. The world is getting more dangerous and alliances have become shaky. We would immediately buy 100 F-35s, new APCs for the army, and would pressure shipbuilders to speed up construction of new warships.

5) We would work to remove agents of China's United Front, close down Confucius institutes, and work towards lowering the number of Chinese students in Canada. We would also put tariffs on Chinese imports and begin to restrict those imports unless China stops targeting Canadian imports, releases Canadians held unjustly in prison, and acts to restrict fentanyl exports to Canada. Chinese companies would not be permitted to buy out Canadian companies.

6) On natives. We would work to eliminate the Indian Act, and start working on relocating natives (voluntarily) who live on uneconomical reserves towards urban centres where they can find work. This might involve buying up land closer in towards urban centres, and possibly creating more 'urban reserves'. We would redirect money now paid to band offices to individual band members, who could then be taxed by their bands. Their homes would become their property, along with the land under them.

7) We would use federal powers to eliminate interprovincial trade barriers, which are estimated to cost the economy $130 billion per year.

8) End all marketing boards

9 lower corporate taxes but also eliminate dividend deduction and capital gains deduction for dividends or capital gains from equities over $250k per year.

10) Require evaluations of resource projects to be completed within a maximum of two years.

11) On guns. Minimum 2 year sentence (no parole) for anyone smuggling weapons into Canada or selling weapons illegally. Second offense raise that to 5 years. Third offense to 10 years.

Edited October 11, 2019 by Argus

[CITIZEN_2015]

11 hours ago, Queenmandy85 said:

Yesterday, Bob Fife reported in the Globe and Mail that Peter MacKay is planning to run for the leadership of the CPC. Hardly a vote of confidence in his party.

URL.weblocUnavailable

That would be the final nail in the coffin of conservative party. Peter MacKay was the architect of new prostitution laws in Canada (even though he was taking instructions from Harper who wanted to preserve his ultra conservative and religious fanatic votes at any cost rather than being concerned about safety and well being of many thousands of sex workers). The manner in which he (MacKay) pushed the new laws and got them through Parliament was very deceiving and undemocratic only expected in dictatorships. The sex workers were banned from speaking (even though it was supposedly meant to protect them), and pre-selected speakers made fake presentations in support of the new laws in Parliament and the conservatives abused their majority to push it through and make them laws. He brought in laws even worse than the ones already struck down by the Supreme Court of Canada as bad laws and pushed them through parliament in a deceiving manner. The new laws are also likely unconstitutional as the issue of safety for workers was not addressed  and as a result f these laws by MacKay they have to face criminals in their daily work and unable to screen out potential bad clients as their clients refuse to provide personal info or references or report those workers abused of forced thanks to his laws making them criminals.  I am not debating the laws themselves. That is another big debate but rather the manner they were pushed through and the reasons

Edited October 12, 2019 by CITIZEN_2015

[Queenmandy85]

3 hours ago, Argus said:

Let me suggest a more rightward platform which would not turn off most centrist Canadians.

1) On immigration. We would be cutting immigration in half

That would likely pass

2) On Health Care. there is just one health insurance payment system for all Canadians, and centralizing the purchase of drugs.

Does that mean people in Saskatchewan would suddenly have to pay premiums. No dice.

3) On Taxation.  No comment

4) On The military. The world is getting more dangerous and alliances have become shaky. We would immediately buy 100 F-35s, new APCs for the army, and would pressure shipbuilders to speed up construction of new warships.

Canadians are not willing to have a viable military. 100 F-35's would be used up in the first 48 hours of a real war. For 35 years I advocated a viable defence policy with no luck. The purpose of a Defence Policy is to defend the realm against all comers. Canadians will not support that. 

5)  Do you seriously think China would notice?

6) On natives. We would work to eliminate the Indian Act, and start working on relocating natives (voluntarily) who live on uneconomical reserves towards urban centres where they can find work. This might involve buying up land closer in towards urban centres, and possibly creating more 'urban reserves'. We would redirect money now paid to band offices to individual band members, who could then be taxed by their bands. Their homes would become their property, along with the land under them.

Good luck with that. Besides the obvious political obstacles, I suspect there would be constitutional problems.

7) We would use federal powers to eliminate interprovincial trade barriers, which are estimated to cost the economy $130 billion per year.

Again, good luck with that.

8) End all marketing boards

Do you expect you will have enough surplus votes that you can throw thousands of dairy producers under the bus?

9 lower corporate taxes

10) Require evaluations of resource projects to be completed within a maximum of two years.

That is an almost impossible timeline. 

11) On guns. Minimum 2 year sentence (no parole) for anyone smuggling weapons into Canada or selling weapons illegally. Second offense raise that to 5 years. Third offense to 10 years.

No argument there. The hard part is catching them. Good luck with that.

Remember, you are trying to attract red tories and blue liberals. Without them, you will not get elected. A successful campaign works to enact what the voters want. A failing campaign tries to convince voters to change their beliefs. Rule one in politics: the voter is always right. Don't tell them what they should believe; listen to what THEY say.

 

[Argus]

4 minutes ago, Queenmandy85 said:

Remember, you are trying to attract red tories and blue liberals. Without them, you will not get elected. A successful campaign works to enact what the voters want. A failing campaign tries to convince voters to change their beliefs. Rule one in politics: the voter is always right. Don't tell them what they should believe; listen to what THEY say.

There's little on that list that any kind of conservative would really be opposed to.

[Queenmandy85]

1 hour ago, CITIZEN_2015 said:

That would be the final nail in the coffin of conservative party.

He single handedly killed the real (Progressive) Conservative Party inspite of signing a written guarantee that he would not merge with the socialist credit Reform Party. 

[Argus]

20 minutes ago, Queenmandy85 said:

He single handedly killed the real (Progressive) Conservative Party inspite of signing a written guarantee that he would not merge with the socialist credit Reform Party. 

How was the Progressive Conservative party different from the present Conservative party?

[Queenmandy85]

6 minutes ago, Argus said:

There's little on that list that any kind of conservative would really be opposed to.

Conservatives are not enough to form a majority government. To get elected, you need to appeal to conservatives,  and centerist liberals. Government is a big tent to fill. You need to understand that politics is the art of acquiring support. (Please ignore my contratictory remarks regarding socialist credit ) If you want to appeal only to the  right wing of the conservative party, you will languish on the opposition benches forever. Take a leaf from Roy Romanow's book. He was the most (best)conservative premier Saskatchewan has had in recent history.

The voter isn't really interested in what the politician believes as long as the politician does what the voter wants. (democracy)

 

[Queenmandy85]

1 minute ago, Argus said:

How was the Progressive Conservative party different from the present Conservative party?

The CPC under Sheer is moving back into the Progressive Conservative fold and away from the socialist credit reform cabal. The CPC was mostly reform after the merger. Reform was the party of Lincoln (Manning's hero). PCPC was the Party of Sir John A. MacDonald.

[Dougie93]

55 minutes ago, Queenmandy85 said:

Party of Sir John A. MacDonald.

Drunken Scots land pirate, founder of the racist apartheid police state, murderer of Louis Riel.

[Queenmandy85]

20 minutes ago, Dougie93 said:

Drunken Scots land pirate, founder of the racist apartheid police state, murderer of Louis Riel.

He's my hero too. 

Better than the vulger pervert Lincoln.

Edited October 12, 2019 by Queenmandy85

[Dougie93]

39 minutes ago, Queenmandy85 said:

He's my hero too. 

Better than the vulger pervert Lincoln.

Dark forces of American freedom.

From Appomattox Court House to the Sea of Tranquility on the Moon.

 

[-1=e^ipi]

11 hours ago, Queenmandy85 said:

The CPC under Sheer is moving back into the Progressive Conservative fold and away from the socialist credit reform cabal.

... And here i was under the impression that Scheer supports the socialist dairy cartel...

[Queenmandy85]

55 minutes ago, -1=e^ipi said:

... And here i was under the impression that Scheer supports the socialist dairy cartel...

Sheer is acting like a Red Tory. The Socialist Credit Party (Reform) are a gang of Bolsheviks.

[Argus]

12 hours ago, Queenmandy85 said:

Conservatives are not enough to form a majority government. To get elected, you need to appeal to conservatives,  and centerist liberals. Government is a big tent to fill. You need to understand that politics is the art of acquiring support.

I don't see there's anything in the above which would bother centrists of any stripe. I think there's a big thirst in Canada for a government which actually addresses longstanding problem files like health care, immigration and natives without just kicking the can down the road again.