White supremacists in Canada's Armed Forces

[Zeitgeist]

44 minutes ago, Dougie93 said:

The tasking was simply to report the violations in and around the Zona, that's all Peacekeeping is, the mission is simply to support a ceasefire which the co-belligerents agree to, the mission was never to stop atrocities, Peacekeeping is UN Chapter 6, using force to impose on the co-belligerents is UN Chapter 7, neither Op Harmony nor Op Cavalier were Chapter 7 missions. 

Bosnia wasn’t simply a peacekeeping mission though. Canada broke with the UN to participate in strikes, but I hear you when it comes to Rwanda and other missions with self-defeating rules of engagement from the UN. Dallaire has much to say on the subject.  

[Dougie93]

50 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

Bosnia wasn’t simply a peacekeeping mission though. Canada broke with the UN to participate in strikes, but I hear you when it comes to Rwanda and other missions with self-defeating rules of engagement from the UN. Dallaire has much to say on the subject.  

The Bosnia air strikes were a NATO tasking, that wasn't Op Cavalier, that was Operation Deliberate Force, that wasn't a UN mission, CANBAT 2 was not involved in that operation.

It's two different missions which you are wrongly conflating into one.

Under UN Chapter 6, you can only use (proportionate) force in self defence and only when they are engaging you, there is no air strikes nor anything like that, coming from UN Peacekeepers.

You don't even have your bsttalion support weapons, mortars and whatnot, all you have is rifles and machine guns, you're not actually loaded for battle.

You can't use camouflage and concealment, that's why the vehicles are painted white and you light your own OP"s up, you're a non combatant and you need to make sure everybody can see that you are UN and so not actually in the fight.

Basically you just man the OP's and patrol around the Zone of Separation to monitor what is going on, but if you catch them doing something, all you can do is report it up the chain of command, which is to the UN in New York.

It's up to the UN to do something about it, and obviously the UN is f**kin' useless, so the whole thing is pretty much a waste of time if the co-belligerents don't want to play along.

And the Serbs and Croats have their proxies at the UN, so they can get the UN to override you anyways.

That's what happened at the Medak Pocket.   The Croats were out to massacre the Krajina Serbs, the Patricia's tried to block them, so the Croats complained to the UN, and the UN ordered the Patricia's to get out of the way, and then they had to stand by while the Croats went a massacring.

After the massacre, the Pats had to go in and document the damage, so not only can you not stop the massacre, you still get a close up look at the aftermath, which, as Army Guy said, that's the kind of thing which gave guys PTSD.

Edited June 6, 2019 by Dougie93

[Army Guy]

2 hours ago, Dougie93 said:

The tasking was simply to report the violations in and around the Zona, that's all Peacekeeping is, the mission is simply to support a ceasefire which the co-belligerents agree to, the mission was never to stop atrocities, Peacekeeping is UN Chapter 6, using force to impose on the co-belligerents is UN Chapter 7, neither Op Harmony nor Op Cavalier were Chapter 7 missions. 

Back in the early days we did not do a 6 month training build up, we were still in the cold war training periods, the first companies to go over where a beefed up November coy, and a Vandoo company, had to be politically correct even then...one English, one French company....shit we got mortared upon arrival, surprised no one was killed on day one....we were never trained for this type of Op....we were trained infantrymen, trained to close with and destroy the enemy....not watch them kill civilians and flaunt it in our faces....of all my tours that one has bothered me the most, told to sit there and watch and get frustrated because we could not protect anyone....even the civilians on all sides could not understand why we just stood there....while they died...UN was more than useless, it actually helped them commit war crimes as the bad guys were embolden by our lack of action.....they did  not need soldiers just photo journalist...Not many UN peace keeping missions have been successful...and I'm not sure why Canada celebrates these UN missions.. touts it like some badge of honor....a lot of good people could have been saved had it been a NATO mission from the start....I think the top military brass here in Canada also lost the taste for peace keeping under the UN there as well...that mission changed peacekeeping forever.... 

I'd almost lost my taste for soldiering ,  never felt more useless in my entire life....a lot of good people I knew where changed forever and not for the good, they got into heavy drinking doing hard drugs, became shit pumps, and finally kicked out, back in the day PTSD was not something anyone talked about, or sought treatment for, asking for help was for the weak, and women folk...not for really men, not for Canadian soldiers........ .....most of use in our plt had enough by the end of out tour.....I remember the first day when the CO announced we would be sending troops he asked for everyone interested to take one pace forward....The whole BN moved as one...when we got back, no one wanted a taste of Yugo...although I did go back 2 more times it was under NATO....where we could soldier, and the bad guys knew if we were not screwing around....the days of them doing what ever they wanted including murder was over....Those days Canadians could be proud of...

[Zeitgeist]

2 hours ago, Dougie93 said:

The Bosnia air strikes were a NATO tasking, that wasn't Op Cavalier, that was Operation Deliberate Force, that wasn't a UN mission, CANBAT 2 was not involved in that operation.

It's two different missions which you are wrongly conflating into one.

Under UN Chapter 6, you can only use (proportionate) force in self defence and only when they are engaging you, there is no air strikes nor anything like that, coming from UN Peacekeepers.

You don't even have your bsttalion support weapons, mortars and whatnot, all you have is rifles and machine guns, you're not actually loaded for battle.

You can't use camouflage and concealment, that's why the vehicles are painted white and you light your own OP"s up, you're a non combatant and you need to make sure everybody can see that you are UN and so not actually in the fight.

Basically you just man the OP's and patrol around the Zone of Separation to monitor what is going on, but if you catch them doing something, all you can do is report it up the chain of command, which is to the UN in New York.

It's up to the UN to do something about it, and obviously the UN is f**kin' useless, so the whole thing is pretty much a waste of time if the co-belligerents don't want to play along.

And the Serbs and Croats have their proxies at the UN, so they can get the UN to override you anyways.

That's what happened at the Medak Pocket.   The Croats were out to massacre the Krajina Serbs, the Patricia's tried to block them, so the Croats complained to the UN, and the UN ordered the Patricia's to get out of the way, and then they had to stand by while the Croats went a massacring.

After the massacre, the Pats had to go in and document the damage, so not only can you not stop the massacre, you still get a close up look at the aftermath, which, as Army Guy said, that's the kind of thing which gave guys PTSD.

I was referring to NATO going it alone without the UN and declaring war.  Canada supported that.  Yes it was tasked by NATO largely as a peacekeeping force, yet it could have entered to combat.  Even UNPROFOR eventually made attacks, once the UN got involved.  Canada will support exceptionalism when necessary.  

[Dougie93]

26 minutes ago, Army Guy said:

Back in the early days we did not do a 6 month training build up, we were still in the cold war training periods, the first companies to go over where a beefed up November coy, and a Vandoo company, had to be politically correct even then...one English, one French company....shit we got mortared upon arrival, surprised no one was killed on day one....we were never trained for this type of Op....we were trained infantrymen, trained to close with and destroy the enemy....not watch them kill civilians and flaunt it in our faces....of all my tours that one has bothered me the most, told to sit there and watch and get frustrated because we could not protect anyone....even the civilians on all sides could not understand why we just stood there....while they died...UN was more than useless, it actually helped them commit war crimes as the bad guys were embolden by our lack of action.....they did  not need soldiers just photo journalist...Not many UN peace keeping missions have been successful...and I'm not sure why Canada celebrates these UN missions.. touts it like some badge of honor....a lot of good people could have been saved had it been a NATO mission from the start....I think the top military brass here in Canada also lost the taste for peace keeping under the UN there as well...that mission changed peacekeeping forever.... 

I'd almost lost my taste for soldiering ,  never felt more useless in my entire life....a lot of good people I knew where changed forever and not for the good, they got into heavy drinking doing hard drugs, became shit pumps, and finally kicked out, back in the day PTSD was not something anyone talked about, or sought treatment for, asking for help was for the weak, and women folk...not for really men, not for Canadian soldiers........ .....most of use in our plt had enough by the end of out tour.....I remember the first day when the CO announced we would be sending troops he asked for everyone interested to take one pace forward....The whole BN moved as one...when we got back, no one wanted a taste of Yugo...although I did go back 2 more times it was under NATO....where we could soldier, and the bad guys knew if we were not screwing around....the days of them doing what ever they wanted including murder was over....Those days Canadians could be proud of...

You're preaching to the choir, I was just trying to explain to Zeitgeist why UN Peacekeeping does not stop atrocities and never did, because that was not the mandate.

As far as I am concerned, you're a great soldier just for your time in, as Oh Three One Infantry,  in the harsh realm which was the CF.

Edited June 6, 2019 by Dougie93

[Dougie93]

14 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

I was referring to NATO going it alone without the UN and declaring war.  Canada supported that.  Yes it was tasked by NATO largely as a peacekeeping force, yet it could have entered to combat.  Even UNPROFOR eventually made attacks, once the UN got involved.  Canada will support exceptionalism when necessary.  

Okay, whatever, you're the expert, I don't really want to talk  to you about it, I asked the Bulgarian guy, I already know what you think.

Edited June 6, 2019 by Dougie93

[Army Guy]

13 hours ago, Zeitgeist said:

I was referring to NATO going it alone without the UN and declaring war.  Canada supported that.  Yes it was tasked by NATO largely as a peacekeeping force, yet it could have entered to combat.  Even UNPROFOR eventually made attacks, once the UN got involved.  Canada will support exceptionalism when necessary.  

Not sure where your going with this, It was the UN's  failure to provide peace that spur NATO to enter conversations with both UN officials , plus all the countries leaders that were involved...No war was ever declared , there was an agreement by all sides concerned including Serbia / and later Kosovo ...with out this consensus it would have been an invasion by NATO forces.. and it was not...NATO was acting as a peace maker not peace keeper, it gave NATO forces sweeping powers....at the time NATO  took over there was no peace to keep, shortly after this is when mass graves were found, on all sides of the borders, war crimes had been conducted by all sides concerned,  UN/ NATO forensic teams were brought in, some of the evidence was used to convict the Serbian PM of war crimes.. Not sure if any other charges were brought to bare.

Not sure what UN forces attacked anyone, the Rules of engagement were so restrictive, that it would make attacks almost imposable, and Canadian ROE's even more so....we were only given 20 rounds and at the end of the day, you better have 20 rounds to turn in, or an investigation would be conducted to ascertain WHY you had missing bullets...Once NATO took over we were issued full war load, plus a full compliment of support munitions cust as , M-72, grenades, 84 mm Carl G anti tank guns, etc etc...plus the new LAVs were brought in and gave us extra fire power, need to enforce the agreed laws and conditions  set out by these round table talks involing all the nations involved, NATO, and some UN officials...

[Army Guy]

13 hours ago, Dougie93 said:

You're preaching to the choir, I was just trying to explain to Zeitgeist why UN Peacekeeping does not stop atrocities and never did, because that was not the mandate.

As far as I am concerned, you're a great soldier just for your time in, as Oh Three One Infantry,  in the harsh realm which was the CF.

Of all my tours that I have done, it is Yugo that haunts me the most, not about what we did , but what we saw, and what humans are capable of doing to each other....the UN mismanaged every aspect this whole conflict from the start, and thousands upon thousands died as a result...in many cases entire villages ,towns, even cities, were wiped out. buried in mass graves in the back country, disposed of like they were no more than garbage... one can only hope they are held accountable in the after life...

[Dougie93]

5 hours ago, Army Guy said:

Of all my tours that I have done, it is Yugo that haunts me the most, not about what we did , but what we saw, and what humans are capable of doing to each other....the UN mismanaged every aspect this whole conflict from the start, and thousands upon thousands died as a result...in many cases entire villages ,towns, even cities, were wiped out. buried in mass graves in the back country, disposed of like they were no more than garbage... one can only hope they are held accountable in the after life...

All that matters, is that you held to your oath to the Commander-in-Chief, Victoria Regina Imperatrix, Pro Patria, Ducimus.

You were a professional and a man of honour who did what you could do, for a people who had succumb to the ethno-nationalist hatreds incited by the World Wars.

You are not responsible for the Ustashi, you are not responsible for the Chetniks, all of that was per-ordained long before you were born.

You did thirty years in the ranks, at the sharp end, and you did it superbly.

Cut yourself some slack, brother, you got nothing to be sorry for, you did a great job, and we love you.

Edited June 6, 2019 by Dougie93

[Army Guy]

On 5/29/2019 at 3:36 PM, taxme said:

So what if someone belongs to some racist group or whatever group they want too. It is nobody's business but theirs. Racism is alive and well and will always be around no matter how many people would like to see it disappear. If someone is a racist, I could care less. No doubt there are many pro liberal, NDP, communist, and maybe even an Islamic terrorist or two in the armed forces whom belong and support one of those political groups. I could care less. Again, it is nobody's business.

This racism nonsense has gone way out of hand, and the word racist only appears to be applied to white people only. This must end. 

It does matter, for a couple reasons, first reason is internally all members of DND are held to a higher standard because of who they are and what they represent. Military laws does not allow for any member to join or hang around with any racist or hate groups or  persons of questionable moral and values , ie murders, rapists, drug dealers, etc... that does not hold the same standards as DND, or any other Canadian dept...plus any political groups of any type.

That said there are people who break the rules, as in this .01 percent....Not sure what Jacee intentions were bringing this to everyone attention, other than to stir up some useless shit...The fact remains that this percentage is smaller than other organization including Jacee's conservative and liberal hate club or her Friday night knitting club.... Thats right people even little old ladies can be hateful...cute but hateful...

[Dougie93]

As we are on the topic, let us just pause  for a moment, and remember the brothers we lost to UNPROFOR;

 

Captain James P. DeCOSTE, CD,  2nd Bn, Princess Patricia's Canadian Light Infantry, 18 Sep 1993

Sergeant J. Denis A. GAREAU, CD, Logistics Branch, 17 Aug 1993

Sergeant Cornelius M. RALPH, CD, 22 Field Squadron, 17 Aug 1992

Master Corporal Mark R. ISFELD, 1 Combat Engineer Regiment, 21 June 1994

Master Corporal Stephane L.P. LANGEVIN, 12e Régiment blindé du Canada, 29 Nov 1993

Master Corporal John W. TERNAPOLSKI, 2nd Bn, Royal Canadian Regiment, 25 Mar 1993

Corporal Jean-Marc H. BECHARD, 2nd Bn, Princess Patricia's Canadian Light Infantry, 6 Aug 1993

Corporal David GALVIN, Sherbrooke Hussars 29 Nov 1993

Corporal Daniel GUNTHER, 2nd Bn, Royal 22e Regiment, 18 Jun 1993

Corporal Joseph F.Y. ROUSSEAU, 12e Régiment blindé du Canada, 25 Sep 1995

Private Kirk D. COOPER, Princess Patricia's Canadian Light Infantry,  4 April 1994

 

They shall grow not old, as we that are left grow old;
Age shall not weary them, nor the years condemn.
At the going down of the sun and in the morning
We will remember them.

[Dougie93]

At the going down of the sun this evening, I particularly remember Mark "Izzy" Isfeld.

He was a Sapper who was lifting mines.

When he was killed, it was because he lifted the top mine, but there was a wire connecting it to a stack, so the whole thing blew and he joined the Pink Mist Society in an instant.

On the day he was killed, rather than being the first story on the news, it was the last thing reported on the National that night, a footnote barely mentioned.

His mother was of course devastated by the loss of her son, but the salt in the wound was that the Liberal government didn't want to publicize any bad news from the Balkans;

So it was barely mentioned, the CBC waited until the last minute to casually report in passing that he had been killed.

No Highway of Heroes for the fallen of UNPROFOR, barely a mention at all.

I sincerely apologize to Mrs.Isfeld, on behalf of Her Majesty, for the shameful conduct of the government, Mark was  a hero, and his brothers will never forget him.

 

[Armchairprophet]

On 5/29/2019 at 6:54 AM, Michael Hardner said:

I feel like you've provided an even description of how you feel.  The idea of a homogenous population in a country, let alone a country the size of Canada isn't a real prospect and it hasn't been since the start.  Rest assured that in a generation or two there will be a melting of the cultures into a local culture and that's how it has always been.

Mmmmm not quite. There's a difference between natural multiculturalism and forced multiculti. Let's look at Rome for example. Most of the peoples they conquered were allowed to retain their customs, practices and laws as long as they didn't conflict with Rome's. Those that did were ruthlessly weeded out. Today we're expected, nay, commanded to accept the crap that is totally un-Canadian and goes against everything Canada stands for. Or at least likes to claim it stands for anyway. Our fearless Prince Groper likes to get all soapbox-y about "hate speech" while he continues to sell military hardware to an oppressive islamo-fascist regime. He pushes the islamophobia narrative while welcoming  back ISIS scum. Meanwhile a few European countries that are so progressive they make us look like backwater hillbillies, sent their Special Forces to the region with pics of the twits who left to join ISIS with the sole intent of making sure if they  do get back "home", it'll be in a black bag or pine box. 

Other than that, I can't argue with your premise that with Canada's size, being  a homogenous population in any way shape or form is simply impossible. But pushing the annual immigration intake to and above the 1% threshold for a welfare state and expecting everyone to get along famously just 'cuz it's Canada is a piss poor formula for success.

[Michael Hardner]

5 hours ago, Armchairprophet said:

1. Mmmmm not quite. There's a difference between natural multiculturalism and forced multiculti. Let's look at Rome for example. Most of the peoples they conquered were allowed to retain their customs, practices and laws as long as they didn't conflict with Rome's. Those that did were ruthlessly weeded out. Today we're expected, nay, commanded to accept the crap that is totally un-Canadian and goes against everything Canada stands for.

2. Or at least likes to claim it stands for anyway. Our fearless Prince Groper likes to get all soapbox-y about "hate speech" while he continues to sell military hardware to an oppressive islamo-fascist regime.

3.  Other than that, I can't argue with your premise that with Canada's size, being  a homogenous population in any way shape or form is simply impossible. But pushing the annual immigration intake to and above the 1% threshold for a welfare state and expecting everyone to get along famously just 'cuz it's Canada is a piss poor formula for success.

1. Please provide an example of such a thing.

2.Yes, and while Trudeau is a certain kind of hypocrite for that so is every other PM we have had since, well, ever.

3. You are implying that immigrants are coming here and going on welfare but that's not how the program works.    There are economic reasons behind it - it's always about the money.  And since you are speaking generally about immigration, so will I: our country has a natural negative birthrate and a country that doesn't grow in population will also shrink in GDP, and influence.

[jacee]

On 6/6/2019 at 1:19 PM, Army Guy said:

It does matter, for a couple reasons, first reason is internally all members of DND are held to a higher standard because of who they are and what they represent. Military laws does not allow for any member to join or hang around with any racist or hate groups or  persons of questionable moral and values , ie murders, rapists, drug dealers, etc... that does not hold the same standards as DND, or any other Canadian dept...plus any political groups of any type.

As it should be. 

On 6/6/2019 at 1:19 PM, Army Guy said:

That said there are people who break the rules, as in this .01 percent....Not sure what Jacee intentions were bringing this to everyone attention, other than to stir up some useless shit...The fact remains that this percentage is smaller than other organization ... 

Link for that? 

Quote

includingJacee's conservative and liberal hate club or her Friday night knitting club.... Thats right people even little old ladies can be hateful...cute but hateful

"Hate" isn't something I waste my earthly time on. If it's unjust, I try to change it. It's our civic duty.

My Friday night knitters make socks, mitts, toques & scarves for homeless men because conservative and liberal governments don't provide public housing for single men. 

Ya we're cute, and thanks for saying so! 

[taxme]

4 hours ago, jacee said:

As it should be. 

Link for that? 

"Hate" isn't something I waste my earthly time on. If it's unjust, I try to change it. It's our civic duty.

My Friday night knitters make socks, mitts, toques & scarves for homeless men because conservative and liberal governments don't provide public housing for single men. 

Ya we're cute, and thanks for saying so! 

Well, the federal liberals are very good at putting up illegal refugees in hotels and are fed and clothed while they wait for their immigration hearing as to whether they can stay in Canada or not. Why doesn't the federal liberal party put up the homeless Canadian people that are living on the streets in winter in hotels until we can find housing for them? The federal government is showing total contempt and hatred and racism towards their own Canadian people. This worrying about a few white supremacists being in the armed forces is bloody ridiculous.There is probably more Islamic terrorist supporters and pro communists in the armed forces today. And if there are some pro patriotic white nationalists or what some would call them "white supremacists" in the armed forces well that works for me. 

Keep up the good work of knitting the many things that the homeless on the streets need, especially in the winter. Now if only the federal government would pay you to do that, it would be a great thing for those morons to be doing for our people. I cannot call you cute because I do not know what you look like. Sorry. Just saying. 

[Rue]

On 6/6/2019 at 1:02 PM, Army Guy said:

Of all my tours that I have done, it is Yugo that haunts me the most, not about what we did , but what we saw, and what humans are capable of doing to each other....the UN mismanaged every aspect this whole conflict from the start, and thousands upon thousands died as a result...in many cases entire villages ,towns, even cities, were wiped out. buried in mass graves in the back country, disposed of like they were no more than garbage... one can only hope they are held accountable in the after life...

Heard with humility.

[Rue]

On 6/6/2019 at 1:11 PM, Dougie93 said:

All that matters, is that you held to your oath to the Commander-in-Chief, Victoria Regina Imperatrix, Pro Patria, Ducimus.

You were a professional and a man of honour who did what you could do, for a people who had succumb to the ethno-nationalist hatreds incited by the World Wars.

You are not responsible for the Ustashi, you are not responsible for the Chetniks, all of that was per-ordained long before you were born.

You did thirty years in the ranks, at the sharp end, and you did it superbly.

Cut yourself some slack, brother, you got nothing to be sorry for, you did a great job, and we love you.

You speak for me thanks. You heard him AG.

[Rue]

AG my family and many Canadians came from parts of East Europe. I am sorry you had to lay witness to it. It's driven many over the edge and yet my grandfather who saw it all died a gentle man in spite of it and you will too.  As for Dougie lol, he's friggin insane.. He is  crazy enough to go to war against the entire illuminati. That or he' ll go fishing  and drown trying to catch Nessie. Defer to you 2 . 

Edited June 11, 2019 by Rue

[Dougie93]

On 6/10/2019 at 9:08 PM, Rue said:

 He is  crazy enough to go to war against the entire illuminati.

Quite the opposite actually, as an United Empire Loyalist Orangeman,  I would of course fight for the Illuminati against the ravages of superstition, obscurantism,  religious influence over public life, and abuses of state power.

Though I am a North German Protestant, bear in mind that the Bavarian Illuminati were on our side.

God save the Queen,  to Hell with the Whore of Babylon whence he came.

 

Edited June 16, 2019 by Dougie93

[HeadLines]

This is happening because people are afraid and politicians with no worthy platforms capitalize on fear to get elected.  

[Argus]

19 hours ago, HeadLines said:

This is happening because people are afraid and politicians with no worthy platforms capitalize on fear to get elected.  

What is happening? Nothing is happening but a hysterical attempt to pretend there's some kind of white supremacist movement in Canada and some of them might have connections to the military. Neither of these are true.

[HeadLines]

1 hour ago, Argus said:

What is happening? Nothing is happening but a hysterical attempt to pretend there's some kind of white supremacist movement in Canada and some of them might have connections to the military. Neither of these are true.

 

 

1 hour ago, Argus said:

What is happening? Nothing is happening but a hysterical attempt to pretend there's some kind of white supremacist movement in Canada and some of them might have connections to the military. Neither of these are true.

But the rise in hate crimes is true. The rise in politicians appealing to peoples fear is true. Something is happening. 

[dialamah]

37 minutes ago, HeadLines said:

But the rise in hate crimes is true. The rise in politicians appealing to peoples fear is true. Something is happening. 

But as long as one dislikes "the other", they will ignore the rise in hate crimes and the politics of fear-mongering.   They'll even do their best to support that fear-mongering.

[Argus]

3 hours ago, HeadLines said:

But the rise in hate crimes is true. The rise in politicians appealing to peoples fear is true. Something is happening. 

Hate crimes are minimal in number, and they rise because the number of immigrants/minorities is rising, and because the number of young men who are misfits or drink alcohol has not diminished.

There is a growing uneasiness with the ever growing number of immigrants. That would certainly account for it, as well.