White supremacists in Canada's Armed Forces

[Argus]

3 hours ago, dialamah said:

But as long as one dislikes "the other", they will ignore the rise in hate crimes and the politics of fear-mongering.   They'll even do their best to support that fear-mongering.

We've had this discussion before. You have never managed to produce the name of an actual group with numbers attached. All you can do is shrilly cry that there are 'racists' out there and that anyone who disagrees with your love of immigration is one of them.

[Ell]

No such thing here as a white supremicist.  It's just a name that is overused.  Most likely to make up a common enemy much like other Leaders in the past used to gather favour for their own selfish causes.

[Michael Hardner]

16 minutes ago, Ell said:

1. No such thing here as a white supremicist.   

2. Leaders in the past used to gather favour for their own selfish causes.

1. Yes, that's a thing.  We have them on this board too.

2. "Used to" ?  Some Conservatives are afraid to lose 3% support so they pander to White Supremacists like Faith Goldy rather than being good people and denouncing her.

[Argus]

1 minute ago, Michael Hardner said:

1. Yes, that's a thing.  We have them on this board too.

2. "Used to" ?  Some Conservatives are afraid to lose 3% support so they pander to White Supremacists like Faith Goldy rather than being good people and denouncing her.

The way the Left operates is they need only find one person guilty of a thought crime. Then they brandish that name aloft like a holy talisman, thrusting it at all they see and demanding that they denounce it. So they've found some woman who has spoken about white pride and interviewed some unsavoury people and built a gigantic statue to her which they carry around with them everywhere they go. "Look at the terrible danger we're all in!" they shriek, carrying that statue around. "Fear her! Fear her! She has a web site! She says rude things! Aghhhh!"

I think the Left now uses Faith Goldy the way fundamentalist Christians use the devil, to scare children and warn all of the need to huddle close together, read their scripture and obey them or the terrible doom will be upon them.

[dialamah]

3 minutes ago, Argus said:

Hate crimes are minimal in number, and they rise because the number of immigrants/minorities is rising, and because the number of young men who are misfits or drink alcohol has not diminished.

There is a growing uneasiness with the ever growing number of immigrants. That would certainly account for it, as well.

According to experts, which you are not, hate crimes rise as a result of anti-immigrant and alt-right rhetoric becoming more common and acceptable.  This includes false claims that immigration increases crime rates, spread by Trump and others.  Rhetoric that demonizes women who wear head coverings and laws that target them increase hate crimes, in Quebec and other countries. 

Hate crimes don't increase unless people think their hate is acceptable.  Because of people like Trump andTommy Robinson and media like the Rebel and.Breitbart, not to mention the many people who believe and repeat alt.right and white nationalist rhetoric without even knowing it, hatred of the 'other' is becoming increasingly acceptable.  

While you may not think that graffiti on your place of worship, being abused and humiliated in public or having someone rip off your clothing is a big deal, this is only the beginning.  Dismissing it as unimportant will let it get worse and spread.

[dialamah]

34 minutes ago, Argus said:

We've had this discussion before. You have never managed to produce the name of an actual group with numbers attached. All you can do is shrilly cry that there are 'racists' out there and that anyone who disagrees with your love of immigration is one of them.

I have and so have others.  You dismiss them as if they don't exist and then say we've never provided any proof.

Anyway, if you aren't worried about hundreds of actual attacks against Blacks, Jews, Muslims and others in Canada, why should anyone be concerned about Islamic terrorism or even extremism in Canada, when there've only been about 3 attacks by Muslins?

[Argus]

23 minutes ago, dialamah said:

I have and so have others.  You dismiss them as if they don't exist and then say we've never provided any proof.

Anyway, if you aren't worried about hundreds of actual attacks against Blacks, Jews, Muslims and others in Canada, why should anyone be concerned about Islamic terrorism or even extremism in Canada, when there've only been about 3 attacks by Muslins?

Hundreds of attacks? There were 2073 hate crimes of which a grand total of 146 involved assaults.

Anyway, the comparison is not between crimes. If they were we'd have to count up how many people Muslims murdered last year, which is quite a few in Ottawa alone. The worry is not even so much about terrorism. The real worry is about growing an insular population within our borders made up of people who do not accept our values and culture.

[Argus]

50 minutes ago, dialamah said:

According to experts, which you are not, hate crimes rise as a result of anti-immigrant and alt-right rhetoric

Experts? From your own cite, your  'expert is Leila Nasr, spokesperson for the National Council of Canadian Muslims,

There are no popular figures using anti-immigrant rhetoric. None. The rise of anti-immigration sentiment is coming from the grass roots, so to speak, from the rising numbers of foreign born and unassimilated people Canadians see around them.

[Michael Hardner]

3 hours ago, dialamah said:

I have and so have others.  You dismiss them as if they don't exist and then say we've never provided any proof. 

I was corrected by someone who said "Soldiers of Odin" are not a neo-Nazi group, they are just named after one.  So if they name themselves after something they profess themselves not do be why didn't they just call themselves The Retardeds" ?

[Michael Hardner]

4 hours ago, dialamah said:

While you may not think that graffiti on your place of worship, being abused and humiliated in public or having someone rip off your clothing is a big deal, this is only the beginning.  Dismissing it as unimportant will let it get worse and spread.

Why would white protestants care about Muslims being gunned down in mosques or Jews machine gunned in synagogues ?  Those are likely just 'anomalies" and not 'hate crimes'... that's just something the FBI says to get attention.  We have more pressing problems like Muslim students being allowed to pray privately in schools and Sikhs not wearing motorcycle helmets.

 

 

[dialamah]

3 hours ago, Argus said:

There are no popular figures using anti-immigrant rhetoric. None.

Just off the top of my head ... Donald Trump, Geert Wilders, Marine Le Pen, Tommie Robinson, Faith Goldy, Steve Bannon,  Ezra Levant, Andrew Breitbart.

4 hours ago, Argus said:

The rise of anti-immigration sentiment is coming from the grass roots, so to speak, from the rising numbers of foreign born and unassimilated people Canadians see around them.

If you believe that I have a bridge to sell you ...

European alt-right group seeks foothold in Canada.

Canada’s new far right: A trove of private chat room messages reveals an extremist subculture.

So far Canada has largely resisted these influences, and I believe the majority of American citizens as well.  Many people speak up when alt-right and anti-immigrant rhetoric is posted or expressed in public.  People are becoming more aware that not everything they see on 'alternative media' is true.  But still far too many people are fooled by half-truths and falsehoods disseminated about non-white immigrants. 

To think there isn't a campaign of disinformation and attempts to sway Canadians to vilify and reject non-white immigrants is really naive.  

[dialamah]

4 hours ago, Argus said:

Hundreds of attacks? There were 2073 hate crimes of which a grand total of 146 involved assaults.

A hate crime is an assault on a person's identity and an implied threat of violence.   2043 such crimes are quite a lot.  

4 hours ago, Argus said:

If they were we'd have to count up how many people Muslims murdered last year, which is quite a few in Ottawa alone. 

Oh really?  So murder only counts if Muslims do it?   And how do you "count" it if it's a second or third generation Canadian born Muslim?

4 hours ago, Argus said:

The real worry is about growing an insular population within our borders made up of people who do not accept our values and culture.

Yawn.  More rhetoric thought up by the leaders in the White Nationalists movement.  Facts and history demonstrate that immigrants take on the values and culture of their host countries over one or two generations.  Even the survey you tried to use to 'prove' Muslims were becoming more extreme actually showed that younger, second generation Muslims were closer to Canadian values than their parents.

You don't have a worry; you merely want one to justify your xenophobic attitudes.

[Dougie93]

2 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

I was corrected by someone who said "Soldiers of Odin" are not a neo-Nazi group, they are just named after one.  So if they name themselves after something they profess themselves not do be why didn't they just call themselves The Retardeds" ?

They're not National Socialists if they don't invoke the Jewish Bolshevik Conspiracy, and near as I can tell,  the original group in Finland does not.

Mere xenophobia does not render someone a National Socialist by default, it's a very specific ideology linking Jews and Communists as a conspiracy.

The Nazis for instance viewed the "negrification" of Europe as all being part and parcel of this plot hatched by the Jews.

I'm searching for something which links this particular group to the Nazi brand of virulent antisemitism, but I'm not seeing anything like that.

There are after all plenty of National Socialists in Europe, if one subscribes to the dogma, there are groups already in place for them to join.

By not joining the Nazis, these persons would seem to be deciding not to be Nazis.

Not to say that National Socialism isn't in ascendance, none the less,  this particular group does not apparently meet the threshold.

All this far leftist bed wetting about everybody being a Nazi is rendering the term meaningless, which is in fact to the advantage of the actual Nazis.

If everybody who is xenophobic, and we're talking millions of people there, is lumped in with the Nazis, then you're actually driving them towards the Nazis in the end.

Once you cast these people into effective internal exile for being Nazis when they weren't actually, that's how the Nazis are going to recruit them.

 

Edited June 18, 2019 by Dougie93

[Dougie93]

4 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

Why would white protestants care about Muslims being gunned down in mosques or Jews machine gunned in synagogues ? 

Soon as the left used it as a rubric to ban speech and grab guns, that became the only issue, Muslims and Jews should disavow the left for its totalitarian speech banning gun grabbing proclivities, if not, don't come crying to me, because I have no sympathy for totalitarians of any stripe, Jacinda Ardern is just as extreme as the mass shooter,  and as she is employing state power to throw gasoline on the fire, she's exponentially more dangerous at the strategic level. And she's obviously crazy, running out and putting on a headscarf all of a sudden just to purity spiral?  What a ridiculous kook.

As to the video which shall not be shown of the person whose name shall not be spoken shooting people at the Mosque, I did watch it, and it's certainly not for the faint of heart, but fetishizing it into a forbidden taboo is actually playing right into the shooters hands.

The other thing I thought in the moment was that if these people had simply been bombed with B-52's in the lands whence they came, nobody would care, so they were kind of like pet Muslims that New Zealand had adopted and that's the only reason they got so much attention.  CENTCOM has after all, flown 12,000 sorties with B-52's killing far, far more innocent Muslims than the man whose name shall not be spoken, and nobody has even noticed, doesn't even make the news anymore.

The other thing that struck me about it was the rhythmic way he goes about the killing, in that he starts in the entrance hallway,  goes down the hall into the main room and jumps around as he shoots people, but then he turns around and goes back to the entrance and starts again, down the hall, shoot up the main room, turn around, go back and start again, wash, rinse, repeat, in a repetitive loop, so it presents like OCD/Autism.  

So I certainly cared enough to look into it, but once the left went insane and invoked global censorship of anything related to the incident to include even identifying the shooter, and furthermore passed a law in a bum rush to round up guns from law abiding owners,  that concern superseded all other concerns therein, and so long as that is the concern, fifty people being shot pales into the background, as obviously exponentially more people have died to defend the freedoms which the left is now attempting to abridge.

As those fifty  Muslims have been turned into an ideological weapon against classically liberal limited government freedom, I feel nothing for them, I simply compartmentalized as they have been transformed into a menace  post mortem.

As I say, I believe this was the shooters intent from the beginning, he knew the left would take the bait and use it as a rubric to ban speech and grab guns which is what they are lying in wait to do, unfortunately as the left did take the bait that's all we're going to concern ourselves with now, and rightly so.

As to the shootings at the synagogues in America,  it's not as much of a concern, as the first and second amendments will preclude the sort of insanity that goes on in the UK, New Zealand and Canada, where there is no real protections from the mob rule of leftist speech banning gun grabbing totalitarianism.

Edited June 18, 2019 by Dougie93

[Michael Hardner]

7 hours ago, dialamah said:

 People are becoming more aware that not everything they see on 'alternative media' is true.  But still far too many people are fooled by half-truths and falsehoods disseminated about non-white immigrants.  

And this investigation shows us how a racist hate-monger with a lot of money can appear to be an entire grassroots MOVEMENT:

A coordinated network of evangelical Christian Facebook pages publishing overtly Islamophobic, conspiratorial content paints extreme, divisive right-wing rhetoric as having broad American support but is actually tied to one individual, a Snopes investigation reveals.

https://www.snopes.com/news/2019/05/15/radical-evangelical-facebook/

[Michael Hardner]

6 hours ago, Dougie93 said:

1. They're not National Socialists if they don't invoke the Jewish Bolshevik Conspiracy, and near as I can tell,  the original group in Finland does not. Mere xenophobia does not render someone a National Socialist by default, it's a very specific ideology linking Jews and Communists as a conspiracy.

2. All this far leftist bed wetting about everybody being a Nazi is rendering the term meaningless, which is in fact to the advantage of the actual Nazis.

 

1. Why does it matter to have such a specific definition ?  The only reason I can see would be to excuse groups with near-identical ideology as not being 'Nazis'.

2. I'm not comforted if virulent racist groups are excused.

[Michael Hardner]

5 hours ago, Dougie93 said:

1. Soon as the left used it as a rubric to ban speech and grab guns, that became the only issue,  

2. As those fifty  Muslims have been turned into an ideological weapon against classically liberal limited government freedom, I feel nothing for them,  

3.  first and second amendments will preclude the sort of insanity 

1. Yes, of course !  My ironic turn on the selfish intentions of people who dismiss racist groups is here turned on its ear as a LEGITIMATE RATIONALE !  That is, the white protestants rightly became concerned with the killings when 'leftists' sought to restrict them from buying guys and posting racist garbage.  Ok.

2. Those people went to worship that day and were cut down in terror.  The horrible act is being used to justify a collective action against such murders.  And now you feel nothing for the victims because people want to do something about murder.  You care more about abstractions like rights, that they remain pure, than actual humans.  Do you realize that laws and principles are enacted, not for their beautiful symmetry and logic, but to make lives better ?

3. Your definition of insanity has flipped to the inverse.  Modifying gun laws isn't 'insane' but killing 50 innocent people is and most think that is so.

[dialamah]

8 hours ago, Dougie93 said:

1.  Soon as the left used it as a rubric to ban speech and grab guns, that became the only issue,

2.  Muslims and Jews should disavow the left for its totalitarian speech banning gun grabbing proclivities, if not, don't come crying to me, because I have no sympathy for totalitarians of any stripe,

4.  The other thing I thought in the moment was that if these people had simply been bombed with B-52's in the lands whence they came, nobody would care.

5.  As those fifty  Muslims have been turned into an ideological weapon against classically liberal limited government freedom, I feel nothing for them

1.  The issue is preventing individuals from being able to carry out mass shootings of a country's citizens.  One of the roles of government is to protect citizens from being randomly killed while they peacefully go about their daily lives.  

2.  And what's in it for them, again?  That speech demonizing them should flow unfettered, inspiring people to get easily obtainable guns to mow them down, is that right.  Hard to understand why they're not all over that!

3.  Ridiculous assertion.  She demonstrated both empathy and leadership, something many leaders fail miserably at.  

4.  Sadly, this is true.

5.  The killer felt nothing for them either; just vermin to be exterminated.  Recall the woman lying on the road, begging for help - your great "freedom fighter" shot her in the back.  I assume your priority for protecting hate speech and easy access to guns over mowing folks down is because you are a white guy in a safe white country who is least likely to be targeted by these killers.  Killing Jews and Muslims is fine, as long as you get to be an asshole and play with guns.  

[Dougie93]

2 hours ago, dialamah said:

1.  The issue is preventing individuals from being able to carry out mass shootings of a country's citizens.  One of the roles of government is to protect citizens from being randomly killed while they peacefully go about their daily lives.  

2.  And what's in it for them, again?  That speech demonizing them should flow unfettered, inspiring people to get easily obtainable guns to mow them down, is that right.  Hard to understand why they're not all over that!

3.  Ridiculous assertion.  She demonstrated both empathy and leadership, something many leaders fail miserably at.  

4.  Sadly, this is true.

5.  The killer felt nothing for them either; just vermin to be exterminated.  Recall the woman lying on the road, begging for help - your great "freedom fighter" shot her in the back.  I assume your priority for protecting hate speech and easy access to guns over mowing folks down is because you are a white guy in a safe white country who is least likely to be targeted by these killers.  Killing Jews and Muslims is fine, as long as you get to be an asshole and play with guns.  

Oh, I wasn't making any appeals to you, we are diametrically opposed, I am obviously counterrevolutionary against you, it's an impasse.

Thus we will simply have to prosecute a winner take all political war against you with our vastly more numerous, wealthy and powerful allies in America, and when you are defeated, then we will impose our ideology on you as you are want to do to us, turn around is fair play and we will prevail in the end.

In the meantime, I encourage you to overreach, as your feminine hysterics and knee jerk totalitarian proclivities are ultimately self defeating.

Edited June 18, 2019 by Dougie93

[Argus]

15 hours ago, dialamah said:

Just off the top of my head ... Donald Trump, Geert Wilders, Marine Le Pen, Tommie Robinson, Faith Goldy, Steve Bannon,  Ezra Levant, Andrew Breitbart.

None of them are Canadian except Goldy and Ezra, and 98% of Canadians have never heard of them. Calling her a popular figure is nonsensical. Calling Ezra Levant popular is very iffy. People at least have heard of him but he has little influence.

15 hours ago, dialamah said:

If you believe that I have a bridge to sell you ...

Still waiting for the names and numbers.

15 hours ago, dialamah said:

To think there isn't a campaign of disinformation and attempts to sway Canadians to vilify and reject non-white immigrants is really naive.  

And yet,  you can't find any evidence of it.

[Argus]

15 hours ago, dialamah said:

A hate crime is an assault on a person's identity and an implied threat of violence.   2043 such crimes are quite a lot.  

Among a population of 37 million? It's nothing. It's something like 0.1% of crimes at best. Most of us worry about murder, robbery and rape a hell of a lot more.

15 hours ago, dialamah said:

Yawn.  More rhetoric thought up by the leaders in the White Nationalists movement.  Facts and history demonstrate that immigrants take on the values and culture of their host countries over one or two generations.

No, they actually prove nothing of the sort. Not when dealing with a group of religious zealots. We've seen no integration from Hassidic Jews or Amish or other small sects. Only Muslims aren't a small sect. They a huge one, and doubling in size ever 7-10 years.

15 hours ago, dialamah said:

Even the survey you tried to use to 'prove' Muslims were becoming more extreme actually showed that younger, second generation Muslims were closer to Canadian values than their parents.

It showed they were more religious than their parents, and the girls were choosing to wear religious uniforms more often as a defiant symbol of their refusal to integrate into Canadian culture and values.

 

 

[Dougie93]

Ezra Levant blew himself up when he panicked and threw Faith Goldy under the bus in groveling appeasement to the Media Party bum rush thus demonstrating for all time that he is totally lacking in the courage of his convictions.

[Dougie93]

9 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

1. Yes, of course !  My ironic turn on the selfish intentions of people who dismiss racist groups is here turned on its ear as a LEGITIMATE RATIONALE !  That is, the white protestants rightly became concerned with the killings when 'leftists' sought to restrict them from buying guys and posting racist garbage.  Ok.

2. Those people went to worship that day and were cut down in terror.  The horrible act is being used to justify a collective action against such murders.  And now you feel nothing for the victims because people want to do something about murder.  You care more about abstractions like rights, that they remain pure, than actual humans.  Do you realize that laws and principles are enacted, not for their beautiful symmetry and logic, but to make lives better ?

3. Your definition of insanity has flipped to the inverse.  Modifying gun laws isn't 'insane' but killing 50 innocent people is and most think that is so.

I of course reject the notion categorically that speech banning and gun grabbing somehow prevents murders.

But whatever, I encourage you to continue to overreach and impale yourselves on that petard.

I feel nothing for Muslims as battering ram to abridge my God given rights in a bum rush of leftist totalitarian dogma, other than they are rendered my political enemies by default therein, and as the Government of Canada indoctrinated me from a young age to compartmentalize for war, I am quite frankly  able to get on with my life regardless without any effeminate hysterical blubbery about it.

As a state sanctioned mass murderer for the British Crown, I've obviously had to come to terms with mass murder as a political instrument some time ago, and I am frankly quite comfortable with it, it only bothers me when my side takes casualties, when my political enemies suffer casualties, that's a win.

As to the Labour Party of New Zealand, while they enjoy the protection of Her Majesty,  it is my personal view that they are communist traitors fit for the yardarm.

 

Edited June 18, 2019 by Dougie93

[Michael Hardner]

9 minutes ago, Dougie93 said:

1. I of course reject the notion categorically that speech banning and gun grabbing somehow prevents murders.

2 ...any effeminate hysterical blubbery about it.

 

1. Nonsense on a few levels.

2. Don't downplay feminine crying.  You were born out of it.

Everything you post seems to flow from a desire to take part in a blood fantasy.  I don't think we have anything to discuss from there.

[Dougie93]

On 6/18/2019 at 4:06 PM, Michael Hardner said:

1. Nonsense on a few levels.

2. Don't downplay feminine crying.  You were born out of it.

Everything you post seems to flow from a desire to take part in a blood fantasy.  I don't think we have anything to discuss from there.

You're free to blubber on like a woman as you please,  knock yourself out, I'm not telling you how to feel about things, that's your gig.

As for the self avowed Communist who gunned down the Muslims in New Zealand, it would have been my privilege and pleasure to have shot him dead before he could murder those people, but you know, can't save everybody, and you certainly can't save them from themselves, the law cannot protect you from a man who is prepared to go to jail for life to execute his mission, I guess they found out the hard way.

My advice for future reference, is to post your own armed security to mitigate such incidents, as these sorts of people are driven by mass media hysteria and they will continue to come out of the woodwork, the police cannot protect you, censorship will not protect you, gun control will not protect you,  you need to protect yourselves, Israeli fashion.

Just yesterday a gunman in downtown Toronto opened fire within a hundred yards of the Prime Minister, and there was no Mounties to be seen, so clearly they're not even adequately protecting the Queen's Executive himself.

Are the Mounties so dim that they did not realize that a Raptors event would bring the gangsters out?  Wake up, boys, or give the tasking to JTF2

Edited June 20, 2019 by Dougie93