Federal Election 2019

eyeball · April 28, 2019

6 hours ago, OftenWrong said:

You have confused a commitment to defend democracy and to uphold the law, which are among the fundamental tenets of conservatism, with mere partisanship.

In typical fashion you've assumed your fundamental tenets are the sole domain of conservatives - its not surprising there's so much hooey in much of what you say when your partisan assumptions are so fundamentally fucked up.

Michael Hardner · April 28, 2019

36 minutes ago, OftenWrong said:

The numbes say to me it could be 40-50,000. However to be conservative I said, "Let's say it's 20,000 a year". I am way ahead of you. Now that you agree, what was your question again?

My link is specifically about irregular border crossers, and it's at 20K - which is why I accepted your number but let's not quibble. I do appreciate you using official sources but if you look at the monthly totals they are waning.

Argus · April 28, 2019

10 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

But - as JC asked - is it still 'growing' ? Or are we talking about a few years ago ?

Every new person makes the problem grow, because they're added to the hundreds of thousands of refugees we've already accepted over the past some years. We had 55,000 asylum claims last year, 50,000 in 2017. There's no reason to expect that to be down this year. Very few are likely to ever become taxpayers given the level of education/language/skills they bring with them.

Argus · April 28, 2019

10 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/politics/article-federal-statistics-show-slight-increase-in-irregular-migrant-claims-in/

"Let's say" ... or you could look it up.

Unbelievably the government has put its own statistics behind a password wall...

It's not 20K

Asylum claims for the 2011-2016 period appear to be significantly lower - even combined- to asylum claims for 2017, as well as for 2018.

So far this year there have been a total of 12,940 claims for the first three months, putting us roughly in line with the last two years. This doesn't seem to separate border crossers.

https://www.canada.ca/en/immigration-refugees-citizenship/services/refugees/asylum-claims/asylum-claims-2019.html

OftenWrong · April 28, 2019

19 minutes ago, eyeball said:

In typical fashion you've assumed your fundamental tenets are the sole domain of conservatives - its not surprising there's so much hooey in much of what you say when your partisan assumptions are so fundamentally fucked up.

Well, at least you read my "hooey".

August1991 · April 28, 2019

On 4/23/2019 at 11:08 PM, WestCanMan said:

Check the poll...

Can I change my voice?

Michael Hardner · April 28, 2019

9 hours ago, Argus said:

1. Every new person makes the problem grow V

2. Very few are likely to ever become taxpayers given the level of education/language/skills they bring with them.

1. Theoretically refugees were not a 'problem' at one time as we indeed co-designed a process with the Americans to accept them. That means that not every new refugee is a 'problem.

2. The question could be rephrased as whether they will be a net economic benefit to Canada, or even if we can accept them on humanitarian basis. Some studies have found that they don't differ from economic migrants in results - eg. https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=524605&fbclid=IwAR2f51mSLltVCG_d3YFpiMShLxZmBQHwQk9ZWWRUYNrIDhALbL0902hc3lE

Michael Hardner · April 28, 2019

9 hours ago, Argus said:

So far this year there have been a total of 12,940 claims for the first three months, putting us roughly in line with the last two years. This doesn't seem to separate border crossers.

OW and I went around on this - he/she is using official sources and the number is indeed 20K

Charles Anthony · April 28, 2019

On 4/23/2019 at 11:08 PM, WestCanMan said:

Check the poll...

Do you want your poll to remain closed after less than 2 days of being open?

Argus · April 28, 2019

5 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

1. Theoretically refugees were not a 'problem' at one time as we indeed co-designed a process with the Americans to accept them. That means that not every new refugee is a 'problem.

Refugees who dribbled in because of being persecuted by their governments were considerably less of a problem as they often came from all walks of life. In fact, many were from opposition parties or organizations, and thus reasonably well-educated for the time. Todays tend to come in waves of largely impoverished peasantry fleeing bad economic times or war. Plus the advancing need for education in a technological western country makes uneducated people from impoverished third world countries exceedingly unlikely to find their skills bring them much in the way of economic success.

5 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

2. The question could be rephrased as whether they will be a net economic benefit to Canada, or even if we can accept them on humanitarian basis. Some studies have found that they don't differ from economic migrants in results - eg. https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=524605&fbclid=IwAR2f51mSLltVCG_d3YFpiMShLxZmBQHwQk9ZWWRUYNrIDhALbL0902hc3lE

A paper from the US from 15 years ago based on statistics from the 1970s and 1980s is probably not very germane to the present time period. Our society is far more technologically advanced today and we have far less of a use for people with low skill-sets and language skills. Statistics Canada makes it clear that refugees are significantly less economically successful than economic or family immigrants.

In particular, they illustrate that the economic success depends on where the refugee comes from. Refugees from Poland and old Yugoslavia, for example, have performed well. refugees from Vietnam and Sri Lanka fairly well. Refugees from the middle east and Africa not well at all. They are far less likely to be employed, even ten or fifteen years after arrival, and their earnings are half that of economic immigrants. This means that almost none are actually paying income taxes, which makes them a drain on the budgets of the places they live, which must supply their health care, education and other services.

https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/n1/pub/11f0019m/11f0019m2019007-eng.htm

WestCanMan · April 28, 2019

7 hours ago, Charles Anthony said:

Do you want your poll to remain closed after less than 2 days of being open?

You can leave it open if you want. No big d.

WestCanMan · April 28, 2019

On 4/27/2019 at 3:34 AM, jacee said:

Don’t make election about immigration, corporate Canada tells political leaders

https://www.nationalnewswatch.com/2019/04/26/dont-make-election-about-immigration-corporate-canada-tells-political-leaders/#.XMQn0-FE00N

I certainly agree.

Don't make the election about xenophobia.

We have always benefited from immigration, and we will always plan for immigration to meet our economic needs and accept refugees to meet our international obligations.

This nonsense is just a distraction from our real challenge: Moving from an outdated economy always too heavily reliant on extraction industries to a sustainable industrial model and planning to meet the financial demands of climate change.

1) What was the point of the enormous font?

2) What makes you jump to the conclusion that immigration is the #1 topic? I don't know anyone who thinks that immigration is the biggest issue facing our country.

jacee · April 29, 2019

7 hours ago, WestCanMan said:

1) What was the point of the enormous font?

2) What makes you jump to the conclusion that immigration is the #1 topic? I don't know anyone who thinks that immigration is the biggest issue facing our country.

1 I copied it. It came that way.

2 Trudeau's 'smear campaign', and this response.

bush_cheney2004 · April 29, 2019

Did this really happen ? The prime minister of Japan (Abe) stood on a stage with Justin Trudeau and extolled cooperation between Japan and Canada so that the U.S. will be the leader of the free world ? In other words, the leader won't be Japan or Canada and certainly not Justin Trudeau.

Quote

"I think that we share the same position, but we should co-operate together so that the United States will be encouraged
to be the leader of the liberal free world and we will co-operate with Canada," he said.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/trudeau-abe-canada-japan-china-1.5114457

GostHacked · April 29, 2019

4 hours ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

Did this really happen ? The prime minister of Japan (Abe) stood on a stage with Justin Trudeau and extolled cooperation between Japan and Canada so that the U.S. will be the leader of the free world ? In other words, the leader won't be Japan or Canada and certainly not Justin Trudeau.

Won't be the USA either. Also define 'free world'.

WestCanMan · April 29, 2019

7 hours ago, jacee said:

1 I copied it. It came that way.

2 Trudeau's 'smear campaign', and this response.

Of course Trude is running a smear campaign. He is a virtue signaller first and foremost so that’s just what he does, and he has absolutely no platform to run on.

Do you expect him to say “Our plan is to continue to destroy our domestic oil industry and to keep our tidewaters blocked to domestic oil while at the same time continuing ti allow Saudi tankers to keep coming in from the east and American tankers will keep traveling down the West Coast, we will continue to treat terrorists with the same dignity and respect that we treat our own veterans, we will continue to denigrate “old stock white Canadians” and “toxically masculine construction workers”, we will continue to entertain fake accusations of hate attacks vs minorities and we still refuse to condemn them when they are exposed, we will further alienate the U.S., China and India, we will give away another $10billion to foreign countries while we continue to 1) fight our veterans in court 2) ignore the native suicide crisis 3) let our indigenous population keep drinking toxic sludge, we will continue with our policy of neutrality towards islamic state, we will continue to protect hate rallies against Jews & Israel, we will continue to create new taxes that harm families and small businesses, we will continue our fight against freedom of speech and give the mainstream media another $1.4 billion taxpayer dollars on behalf of the Liberal party (thanks CBC and CTV for making that pesky little SNC thing go away).....”? Am I missing something?

Sure, when he invited a huge influx of asylum-seekers from America (lol) that we couldn’t provide enough housing, clothing, medical treatment, medicine, food and education for that was stupid, but it’s not like it was “the one stupid thing that he did”.

Yeah, Justin is running a smear campaign, so what?

The Conservatives are paying their own money to run ads about government corruption in the SNC scandal because our MSM got enough hush money to push that bad boy under the rug. Is that what you call a smear campaign?

jacee · April 29, 2019

Maybe you should find someone to argue with who cares about the Lib-Con mudslinging spats. That wouldn't be me.

I'd like to see an election campaign based on the important issues we face in coping with climate change, discussion of real issues facing the country as a whole that don't insult our intelligence.

WestCanMan · April 29, 2019

7 hours ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

Did this really happen ? The prime minister of Japan (Abe) stood on a stage with Justin Trudeau and extolled cooperation between Japan and Canada so that the U.S. will be the leader of the free world ? In other words, the leader won't be Japan or Canada and certainly not Justin Trudeau.

You mean “China, er ummmm Japan”.

WestCanMan · April 29, 2019

44 minutes ago, jacee said:

Maybe you should find someone to argue with who cares about the Lib-Con mudslinging spats. That wouldn't be me.

I'd like to see an election campaign based on the important issues we face in coping with climate change, discussion of real issues facing the country as a whole that don't insult our intelligence.

You just saw 4 years of Trudeau policy, do you need him to tell you what another 4 years would be like?

Every decent promise he made last time was a lie, he just ran a way bigger deficit than he said he would and gave away billions that he never told us about.

And the budget didn’t balance itself. So weird.

Charles Anthony · April 29, 2019

18 hours ago, WestCanMan said:

You can leave it open if you want. No big d.

The poll is re-opened now.

jacee · April 29, 2019

2 hours ago, WestCanMan said:

You just saw 4 years of Trudeau policy, do you need him to tell you what another 4 years would be like?

Every decent promise he made last time was a lie, he just ran a way bigger deficit than he said he would and gave away billions that he never told us about.

And the budget didn’t balance itself. So weird.

Why are you still talking to me about Liberals?

What did you not comprehend about ...

Maybe you should find someone to argue with who cares about the Lib-Con mudslinging spats. That wouldn't be me.

Edited April 29, 2019 by jacee

WestCanMan · April 29, 2019

53 minutes ago, jacee said:

Why are you still talking to me about Liberals?

What did you not comprehend about ...

Maybe you should find someone to argue with who cares about the Lib-Con mudslinging spats. That wouldn't be me.

In case you hadn't noticed, the thread is about who we're voting for, not what our main election issues are.

I see you tried to make it into a thread about your own hot issues but that's actually off-topic.

WestCanMan · April 29, 2019

Still 0% Libs in the poll after 8 votes lol.

jacee · April 30, 2019

8 votes :lol:

This is what I'm watching ...

https://www.straight.com/news/1233956/paul-manly-nanaimo-ladysmith-election-voters-last-chance-set-stage-change-fall

Business matters.

Green business.

Jobs and the economy depend on our small-medium sized businesses.

"Greens are showing that decisive change is hopeful and exciting.

Canadian companies are already leading the way."

dialamah · April 30, 2019

20 hours ago, WestCanMan said:

Still 0% Libs in the poll after 8 votes lol.

Yeah, this forum is pretty heavily weighted in favor of Conservatives, so what did you expect? I won't vote Conservative, even though I don't like JT much - Conservative ideology is too much like fundamental Christians/Muslims for my liking - demanding that people conform to certain sexual mores and behaviors, excluding people based on "tribalism", rejecting science and making the economy/low taxes a priority over the environment and people. Not interested in any of that.