GM packing its bags in Oshawa

[Guest]

Just now, eyeball said:

What was inevitable and well known and warned about was how powerful and sociopathic the interests pushing economic globalization would become.

All I heard in response was LOL and references to Stalin, Castro and David Szuzuki.

No, i agree that such things are inevitable.  It would have been much worse if your three friends had been in charge, but there is no reason for anyone to expect people to be nice to each other.  Especially when they have interests.  The size of the interest is usually inversely proportional to the size of the nice.

[eyeball]

27 minutes ago, bcsapper said:

 It would have been much worse if your three friends had been in charge, 

There it is...I should have said putz not wuss.

[Guest]

14 minutes ago, eyeball said:

There it is...I should have said putz not wuss.

It doesn't matter what you say.  Sanity does not a putz make.

[eyeball]

47 minutes ago, bcsapper said:

It doesn't matter what you say.  Sanity does not a putz make.

 

It's abundantly clear it doesn't matter what any sane Lefty says because there are no sane ones according to putzes.

Edited December 6, 2018 by eyeball

[Guest]

1 minute ago, eyeball said:

 

It's abundantly clear it doesn't matter what any sane Lefty says because there are no sane ones according to putzes.

I don't worry about what putzes might say, unless they want to argue.

As for sane lefties:  At your service!

[eyeball]

Don't kid yourself.

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, eyeball said:

Don't kid yourself.

I don't.  I constantly come on the left side of all those surveys that we fill out.  Just because I don't like Gulags or the death penalty for blasphemy doesn't mark me as alt-right.

[eyeball]

2 hours ago, bcsapper said:

I don't.  I constantly come on the left side of all those surveys that we fill out.  Just because I don't like Gulags or the death penalty for blasphemy doesn't mark me as alt-right.

But your off the cuff assumptions about socialists do.

You really think Suzuki would be worse than what we have now, to the point he can be lumped in with Stalin and Castro without a second thought?

BTW, what surveys? I don't seem to be getting any surveys that allow me to indicate which side of the ideological divide I'd prefer.

Edited December 6, 2018 by eyeball

[Iznogoud]

My first post.  I looked for an introductions section but could not find one.  In any case here is an addition to this topic. 

 

Apparently part of GM's reason for closing so many plants is that it has decided that in the long run electric vehicles are the future.  Here is an analysis of that position.

GM May Finally Be Serious About Electric Vehicles

https://cleantechnica.com/2018/11/27/gm-may-finally-be-serious-about-electric-vehicles/

[cannuck]

10 hours ago, eyeball said:

What was inevitable and well known and warned about was how powerful and sociopathic the interests pushing economic globalization would become.

All I heard in response was LOL and references to Stalin, Castro and David Szuzuki.

I will always come back to the same argument regarding this subject.  "Globalism" is just a phrase that people have grasped onto because they know SOMETHING is drastically wrong, but they don't bother to understand what it is.  Globalism, corporatism, crony capitalism and my own choice of descriptive phrase, Casino Capitalism are all something we as the ignorant electorate enable by empowering our respective governments to grant the privilege for some to increase the money supply causing massive pent up inflationary forces, inequitable redistribution of wealth all without adding a single penny of value or creating any wealth.   The world watched the global economy crash in 1929 when speculative trading/"investing" took the orgy of greed to the extreme, and passed legislation to limit the power of financial institutions to be so abusive of their very special privileges to do so.   Once those protections were stripped away, it has once again returned to being the status quo.    When it got so far out of hand (it is at least 1,000 orders of magnitude greater today than in 1929 - even corrected for inflation) instead of paying the rational price for their treachery (i.e. going bankrupt and having legislation put BACK in place to limit their power/privilege) finance had identified the weak spot (the US government) and bought control locks, stock and barrel - resulting in "too big to fail" bailouts to the tune of TRILLION$$$$ of impact on the US and by extension all other taxpayers within the "global" economy.  

2009 should have been a crash that correct these excesses.  The 1% rallies once again KNEW something was wrong, but did not bother to try to understand WHY there was such a problem.

Easy solution:  tax speculative gain.   I mean TAX it.   My version would be 99% of first month, 95% first year, tapering down 5% per year until matching the nominal tax rate.
 

[cannuck]

10 hours ago, Thinkinoutsidethebox said:

How many headaches does your computer, tablet, phone create through the course of a day? 

Actually we had the incredible lifestyle well before the technology of the last twenty years. There are still many the system doesn't work for.

YouTubers are whining because they have to work so hard to maintain followers, nothing's changed... 

I may have a headache with my cell phone or my computer once in a while, but in the meantime, I can pick either one up and speak with my counterparts in UK, Europe, Asia, Africa and South America for next to no cost (avoiding what I once had to do in the "good old days" of having multi-thousands a month in telephone costs and the much greater financial cost, time waste and multiple risks of flying all over the world to do what these "headaches" allow me to clear up from my couch at home.

The cell phone also allows us to run companies with highly skilled and experienced people all over North America who encounter technical issues trying to do our job (literally keeping the lights on in heavy industry and utilities) and solve them in seconds or minutes by being able to call those within the organization who can best solve such problems - 90% of the time in a single, brief call.

Those damned computers are what allow me to pull my diesel truck up to a pump and fill it with a fuel that in the good old days would smoke you off of the planet.   Instead, the air going into my car or truck is now dirtier (in large cities) than what is coming out the tailpipe.

And on it goes.

[Michael Hardner]

Tax speculation?  As the old saying goes 'how ?'.  Isn't GM's investment in future self-driving cars a gamble?  Isn't every house or hotel built a speculation on future markets?

 

This is the weirdest statement of the week: "YouTubers are whining because they have to work so hard to maintain followers, nothing's changed... "

[Thinkinoutsidethebox]

35 minutes ago, cannuck said:

I may have a headache with my cell phone or my computer once in a while, but in the meantime, I can pick either one up and speak with my counterparts in UK, Europe, Asia, Africa and South America for next to no cost (avoiding what I once had to do in the "good old days" of having multi-thousands a month in telephone costs and the much greater financial cost, time waste and multiple risks of flying all over the world to do what these "headaches" allow me to clear up from my couch at home.

Of course in the "good old days" you didn't have issues that required your specialized skills to resolve either. Most equipment was simple enough the locals could figure it out. 

35 minutes ago, cannuck said:

The cell phone also allows us to run companies with highly skilled and experienced people all over North America who encounter technical issues trying to do our job (literally keeping the lights on in heavy industry and utilities) and solve them in seconds or minutes by being able to call those within the organization who can best solve such problems - 90% of the time in a single, brief call.

If you have an issue that takes seconds or minutes to resolve in systems that big it sounds like they are caused by the technology that controls them, technology that didn't even exist yesrs back. In other words problems are being created that weren't there before. Heavy industry and utilities still run wires, fuses, contactors that are still susceptible to mechanical failure. It's the same issue with mobile equipment, it's another system with it's own set of problems. 

I'm not saying advancement in technology is bad, the problem is we are going overboard with it. Technology should be making our lives easier not more complex. 

35 minutes ago, cannuck said:

Those damned computers are what allow me to pull my diesel truck up to a pump and fill it with a fuel that in the good old days would smoke you off of the planet.   Instead, the air going into my car or truck is now dirtier (in large cities) than what is coming out the tailpipe.

And on it goes.

Those damned computers did a great job in the nineties and early 2000s for most diesels, moving on to the mid 2000s on things have gone backwards a bit. Today there is more pollution being produced building, maintaining and repairing this technology then it's saving. Again technology has done wonders for engine management over the last thirty years but explain why the engine controls need to be linked to the entertainment system in a vehicle? Your vehicle gets broken into and the radio gets stolen you get hit twice because now the damn thing won't even run. 

You need to call London and the French and inform them how clean your diesel truck is. 

 

[Thinkinoutsidethebox]

47 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

Tax speculation?  As the old saying goes 'how ?'.  Isn't GM's investment in future self-driving cars a gamble?  Isn't every house or hotel built a speculation on future markets?

I guess it's GM's lack of investment in the present that is pissing people off. Anybody research how many plants they are opening in Mexico and China? 

Quote

 

This is the weirdest statement of the week: "YouTubers are whining because they have to work so hard to maintain followers, nothing's changed... "

LOL, actually I didn't finish my thought there, my wife cut me off. The gist of it is whether it's shoveling grain, driving truck or taxi, typing letters, delivering mail, building cars, troubleshooting or trying to get likes, subscriptions and shares etc. people are always complaining about how hard they have to work to make a living. And technology isn't changing that. 

[Guest]

7 hours ago, eyeball said:

But your off the cuff assumptions about socialists do.

You really think Suzuki would be worse than what we have now, to the point he can be lumped in with Stalin and Castro without a second thought?

BTW, what surveys? I don't seem to be getting any surveys that allow me to indicate which side of the ideological divide I'd prefer.

You lumped them together.  I just followed your lead.

This one for instance.  I don't like the assumption in the title but by the Guardian's standards I'm closest to Barry O.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/ng-interactive/2018/nov/21/how-populist-are-you-quiz

 

[Wilber]

I think the new technology is great although it has gone overboard in many ways. The good old days weren’t that good in many ways. I have a 60’s convertible that I restored. The thing is really simple to work on compared to today’s vehicles but it is a piece of crap as a car compared to today’s. It also stinks. I have to air out the garage for about 20 minutes after I back it in but I can pull my newer diesel pickup into the garage and close the door right away.

[Rue]

3 hours ago, Thinkinoutsidethebox said:

Of course in the "good old days" you didn't have issues that required your specialized skills to resolve either. Most equipment was simple enough the locals could figure it out. 

If you have an issue that takes seconds or minutes to resolve in systems that big it sounds like they are caused by the technology that controls them, technology that didn't even exist yesrs back. In other words problems are being created that weren't there before. Heavy industry and utilities still run wires, fuses, contactors that are still susceptible to mechanical failure. It's the same issue with mobile equipment, it's another system with it's own set of problems. 

I'm not saying advancement in technology is bad, the problem is we are going overboard with it. Technology should be making our lives easier not more complex. 

Those damned computers did a great job in the nineties and early 2000s for most diesels, moving on to the mid 2000s on things have gone backwards a bit. Today there is more pollution being produced building, maintaining and repairing this technology then it's saving. Again technology has done wonders for engine management over the last thirty years but explain why the engine controls need to be linked to the entertainment system in a vehicle? Your vehicle gets broken into and the radio gets stolen you get hit twice because now the damn thing won't even run. 

You need to call London and the French and inform them how clean your diesel truck is. 

 

Well explained and look out you wrote more than two sentences that bothers some on this forum. You and Cano are covering both sides of the issue real darned good.

[Rue]

1 hour ago, Wilber said:

I think the new technology is great although it has gone overboard in many ways. The good old days weren’t that good in many ways. I have a 60’s convertible that I restored. The thing is really simple to work on compared to today’s vehicles but it is a piece of crap as a car compared to today’s. It also stinks. I have to air out the garage for about 20 minutes after I back it in but I can pull my newer diesel pickup into the garage and close the door right away.

Yah true but I bet you love it. They don't make them with those lines any more. Anyone who can restore a car is a great artist. 

[Rue]

2 hours ago, Thinkinoutsidethebox said:

I guess it's GM's lack of investment in the present that is pissing people off. Anybody research how many plants they are opening in Mexico and China? 

LOL, actually I didn't finish my thought there, my wife cut me off. The gist of it is whether it's shoveling grain, driving truck or taxi, typing letters, delivering mail, building cars, troubleshooting or trying to get likes, subscriptions and shares etc. people are always complaining about how hard they have to work to make a living. And technology isn't changing that. 

Of course.....it's human nature to complain. You want happy people? I am not sure that is possible unless you put them on heavy medication or cut out a chunk from their brain.

I was happy once when Lindsay Lohan and Paris Hitlon offered me a three-some. Then when they took their clothes off and I saw the skin rashes I ran. Happiness is a fleeting thing. Over-rated. P.s. Paris has a penis. Go figure.

Edited December 6, 2018 by Rue

[Rue]

14 hours ago, eyeball said:

I don't know wtf these are never mind what they have to do with anything but it explains a lot that you get them.

You get chem-trails too?

Listen I run Hollywood, the banking system, control the White House, according to you. The thing about your selective leftist memory is how you define Globalism. It depends on your cause of the day. You know damn well what I refer to and my point is Globalism is neither a left or right wing political phenomena but quaint lefty stereotypes such as thou define it as a right wing phenomena..

Regards Comrade,

Jewish World Conspirator, aka Zionist Rue faced Right Wing Colonial Imperialist Neo something and then some more of what ever you say or deny

Edited December 6, 2018 by Rue

[cannuck]

4 hours ago, Thinkinoutsidethebox said:

Of course in the "good old days" you didn't have issues that required your specialized skills to resolve either. Most equipment was simple enough the locals could figure it out. 

If you have an issue that takes seconds or minutes to resolve in systems that big it sounds like they are caused by the technology that controls them, technology that didn't even exist yesrs back. In other words problems are being created that weren't there before. Heavy industry and utilities still run wires, fuses, contactors that are still susceptible to mechanical failure. It's the same issue with mobile equipment, it's another system with it's own set of problems. 

I'm not saying advancement in technology is bad, the problem is we are going overboard with it. Technology should be making our lives easier not more complex. 

Those damned computers did a great job in the nineties and early 2000s for most diesels, moving on to the mid 2000s on things have gone backwards a bit. Today there is more pollution being produced building, maintaining and repairing this technology then it's saving. Again technology has done wonders for engine management over the last thirty years but explain why the engine controls need to be linked to the entertainment system in a vehicle? Your vehicle gets broken into and the radio gets stolen you get hit twice because now the damn thing won't even run. 

You need to call London and the French and inform them how clean your diesel truck is. 

 

Let's think about some of those "good old days" technologies and technological devices.

The fastest air breathing airplane in history was conceived in the late '50s and flying in '62.  Now, it SEEMED very simple, but if you look at the science behind (and used extensively) to solve all of those "simple" problems - you come to realize that those simple components were extremely complex.  People in general were less aware, I guess, but the whole business of making a simple 3,000 mph airplane was incredibly complex.   Yes, it  COULD be done today with computers (but it has not been) but the cold hard work that gave us the technologies to write the programmes today came long before the digital revolution.

You think these basic things were easy when the technology seemed simple?  Ever set up a lineup of Weber carbs on a new installation?  The skill and experience required to select choke tubes, mains, air corrections, emulsion tubes, pilot jets, accel jets, velocity stacks (or air cleaners) was quite considerable - as each one of those things interacted with the other, and there were literally thousands of possible components with millions of permutations and combinations to make the car run right.  Today, I can buy a dirt cheap ECU (megatune) and build a very simple fuel injection (and ignition) system that anyone can be taught to programme in a few hours - and it will run rings around even a perfect set of Webers and distributed HV ignition.

Ever tried FEA calculating by hand?   That's how we used to do it, and the odd bridge that fell down tells you it wasn't all that exact a science.   Today, any goofball can whiz up a CAD drawing and feed it to an FEA programme (or in the case of aerodynamic stuff, some CFD programmes) and very quickly and simply get results that were almost or literally impossible a half century ago.

Now, let's think about some of those very simple devices: power transformers and their protection gear (circuit breakers).   The science behind them is exactly the same, and just as complicate as it ever was.  Once again, those "simple" parts are just the expression of some very complex design work.  BUT: in the "good old days" a voltage excursion (spike) that could and often DID take overcome the BIL values of the insulating system would simply blow the thing to bits.  The reason is that those simple breakers took time to heat something up to cause them to disconnect (as happens in the panel in your house).  Today, modern electronics can look at the sine wave in real time and spot a difference in value for voltage to ground or phase to phase and operate a very fast switch before the insulation system of the multi-million dollar "simple" transformer is destroyed.

It just goes on forever.  ANYTHING simple that was designed long ago might have had some extremely good science behind it - and definitely did if it was well designed.  The only difference today is that the technologies we use as tools are right under our noses, not hidden away in some ivory tower.

You see, ignorance really was bliss.

[eyeball]

7 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

Isn't GM's investment in future self-driving cars a gamble? 

They're probably also seeing the reality of co-op or collective vehicle ownership now plus simple cars/drones that people will just google up use and and send on their way when done.  Private ownership of a vehicle will soon be a thing of the past and robots will build a much smaller fleet of vehicles

 

Quote

 

Isn't every house or hotel built a speculation on future markets?

 

My recent renovation and conversion of a portion of my home to an AirBnb rental is not just mere speculation. Its a game-changing investment that will make a huge difference in my retirement.  It remains to be seen how far the local powers that be will be lobbied into tilting the internet-based vacation rental playing field towards the big resorts hereabouts but they're trying.  It reminds me of the battle Uber is up against.  It may appear on the face of it that these internet based economic sectors have little local constituency but homeowners do vote and a lot of us are moving in the same direction. Hopefully that'll help.

It seems whenever the little guy around here finds a way to make decent money it triggers some sort of automatic spasm oriented towards control and greed amongst governments and vested interests alike, I thought innovation was supposed to be the ticket?  I guess it remains to be seen what will happen when the pool of potential paying customers shrinks due to everyone being laid off. Fortunately I seem to live in a busy attractive tourist destination in what might be a climate change sweet spot that's benefiting from the changes, at least in the relative short-term of the rest of my life.  Hopefully my stack will be okay but I'm nervous about how property values are rising so much, especially in light of the way rising fortunes trigger vested interests and governments to become overly and often mutually concerned/interested.

Edited December 6, 2018 by eyeball

[Zeitgeist]

We love having the latest and greatest tech and being at the cutting edge, as long as we have the wages to buy the tech and feel like we’re participating in the new economy.  I think many of us on here are the lucky ones.  Sure , call it earned by hard work rather than being born into privilege, whatever makes you feel warm and fuzzy about your place in the world.  I still don’t know how we’re going to manage all these underemployed men in the future. I guess they’ll join alt right white supremicist groups, go on opioids, enter prisons, or some combination of the three.  This epidemic is breaking states like West Virgina and areas like Vancouver’s Hastings East Side.  Yes we love the advantages of automation and the share economy — AirBnb, home swaps, Uber/Lyft, etc. — despite the displacement of old economy taxi drivers, hoteliers, and so forth.  It’s the idea of millions of people with low prospects that should concern governments. What real estate will they be able to afford?  Who will want to hitch their train to this wreck in the hope of having a “family”?  Not much of an American Dream. 

Also, some of this new tech sounds very gimicky and irritating.  Not sure I’ll ever want to be picked up for work by a driverless electric fleet and share the ride with other shlubs. Sounds a bit dystopian and, dare I say, communist?  

[eyeball]

3 hours ago, Rue said:

Listen I run Hollywood, the banking system, control the White House, according to you.

Say what? I doubt you could run your basement without Mom upstairs.

Quote

The thing about your selective leftist memory is how you define Globalism. It depends on your cause of the day. You know damn well what I refer to and my point is Globalism is neither a left or right wing political phenomena but quaint lefty stereotypes such as thou define it as a right wing phenomena..

I'm defining the negative effects of globalism as the same race to the bottom that was defined and predicted decades ago.  You apologists who laughed your silly asses of at us commies back then are simply and typically twisting things around to facilitate squirming your way towards casting everything that goes south on lefties.  Right-wingers have simply taken the term and burnished it up with their old one-world government bugaboos. 

Quote

Regards Comrade,

There it is...Comrade...see what I mean?

You dingbats cant help but roll in the same stupid direction  - what, you didn't think it was obvious?

Quote

Jewish World Conspirator, aka Zionist Rue faced Right Wing Colonial Imperialist Neo something and then some more of what ever you say or deny

Edited December 6, 2018 by eyeball

[bush_cheney2004]

In related news, Fiat Chrysler (FCA) is reported to be opening a new U.S. auto plant in Michigan, the first in over 10 years.   FCA has already pared down sedan manufacturing and needs more production capacity for SUVs.   

https://www.wsj.com/articles/fiat-chrysler-to-open-new-assembly-factory-in-detroit-1544127162