Free Ride?

[August1991]

As a Canadian, why do you spend all that (our) money on defense?

Spend less money on defending our continent, or spend the money building a wall to the south.

[AngusThermopyle]

As a Canadian we spend Jack shit on defense. Seriously, we under fund the Forces at an almost criminal level. Pretty hard to spend less than almost nothing. As for the rest of your comment, well it's so juvenile it isn't even worth answering.

[eyeball]

How many times does it need to be said?  Buy war bonds. Put your money where your mouths are.

[Queenmandy85]

Defence spening is not a high priority for Canadian taxpayers. They government reflects that. With all of the immediate issues facing us right now- climate change, underfunded healthcare, underfunded justice system and a host of other problems, it is hard to convince people to spend an extra 20 billion dollars on something the taxpayer believes will never happen is an uphill climb. We have to convince them the need is immediate.

[Queenmandy85]

5 minutes ago, eyeball said:

How many times does it need to be said?  Buy war bonds. Put your money where your mouths are.

That is all well and good if people are willing to buy them. I have my doubts.

[eyeball]

1 hour ago, Queenmandy85 said:

That is all well and good if people are willing to buy them. I have my doubts.

Point being, if people are willing. Recall we do live in a democracy.

[Zeitgeist]

Took this picture of the WW1 Canadian Vimy Ridge monument in France.  Every Canadian should try to visit this site, as it shows Canada’tremendous contribution and losses as four Canadian divisions took the ridge, a turning point in the war, when we had a population of eight million.  I haven’t visited any WW2 sites yet, but they too demonstrate Canada’s remarkable contributions.  This alone should explain why Trump’s treatment of a close U.S. ally is so disgusting.   Yes we should make some improvements to the military and we are.  Our humanitarian contributions, accepting double the refugees of the U.S, which has ten times our population, obviously doesn’t register with this so called leader. 

[bush_cheney2004]

5 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

......  Our humanitarian contributions, accepting double the refugees of the U.S, which has ten times our population, obviously doesn’t register with this so called leader. 

 

 

That's right....Canadian war propaganda is for Canada, not the United States...we have our own thank you very much.

As for refugees, many Canadians are no longer willing to just accept the government's actions or claims.

 

[August1991]

Talk about missing my OP.

======

The Cold War is over. America won.

Now, we have to protect ourselves from idiots. Or, we have to educate them as they arrive.

Fer gawdsakes.... 

[August1991]

On 7/24/2018 at 8:08 PM, Zeitgeist said:

Took this picture of the WW1 Canadian Vimy Ridge monument in France.  Every Canadian should try to visit this site, as it shows Canada’tremendous contribution and losses as four Canadian divisions took the ridge, a turning point in the war, when we had a population of eight million.  I haven’t visited any WW2 sites yet, but they too demonstrate Canada’s remarkable contributions.  This alone should explain why Trump’s treatment of a close U.S. ally is so disgusting.   Yes we should make some improvements to the military and we are.  Our humanitarian contributions, accepting double the refugees of the U.S, which has ten times our population, obviously doesn’t register with this so called leader. 

In all honesty, what does this have to do with this world?

Does anyone remember Tannenburg?

[Queenmandy85]

19 minutes ago, August1991 said:

oes anyone remember Tannenburg?

I do.

[August1991]

15 minutes ago, Queenmandy85 said:

I do.

Queenmandy, did you see it with your own eyes?

Monuments come and go. Even, maybe, the Statue of Liberty.

Edited July 26, 2018 by August1991

[August1991]

Getting back to my OP. You Americans (Left/Right whatever) seem clueless.

1. In Canada, it is cold. We have few immigrants who want to stay.

2. We in Canada have enjoyed living under your protection. While you pay for guns, we can pay for butter.

3. You leave us alone. (Honest to God, I could not wish for a better neighbour.)

Edited July 26, 2018 by August1991

[Michael Hardner]

6 hours ago, August1991 said:

Getting back to my OP. You Americans (Left/Right whatever) seem clueless.

1. In Canada, it is cold. We have few immigrants who want to stay.

2. We in Canada have enjoyed living under your protection. While you pay for guns, we can pay for butter.

3. You leave us alone. (Honest to God, I could not wish for a better neighbour.)

Have you ever known a loud dude who bought all the drinks, but insisted on picking the bar you went to and telling all the stories ?  That.

At some point in the night, though, you get to go home.

[August1991]

On 7/26/2018 at 8:15 AM, Michael Hardner said:

Have you ever known a loud dude who bought all the drinks, but insisted on picking the bar you went to and telling all the stories ?  That.

At some point in the night, though, you get to go home.

"... who bought all the drinks..." ?

With Trump, it seems that scam is over - at least in Germany.

=====

Make no mistake: American taxpayers (even ordinary Americans) gave up much so that Germans could feel safe. 

[August1991]

On 7/24/2018 at 8:08 PM, Zeitgeist said:

Took this picture of the WW1 Canadian Vimy Ridge monument in France.  Every Canadian should try to visit this site, as it shows Canada’tremendous contribution and losses as four Canadian divisions took the ridge, a turning point in the war....

I've been to Vimy Ridge.

No, it was not a turning point in WWI. (The turning point on the western front were the sappers and their explosion in June 1917.)

WWI was a foolish slaughter of young men, for no reason. Any claim otherwise is wrong.

For those that are curious, go to Beaumont-Hamel - then see the German trenches, still existing.

======

We in the West have much to defend.

But August 1914 was a calamity, and its aftermath worse.

Yet I still defend western values.

Edited July 31, 2018 by August1991

[Michael Hardner]

7 hours ago, August1991 said:

 Make no mistake: American taxpayers (even ordinary Americans) gave up much so that Germans could feel safe. 

Pardon me if I am skeptical that such complex things such as defense pacts can be rationally examined in this age of mushrooming stupidity.  Who builds most of the arms ?  Where are the factories ?  

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/09/22/business/economy/military-industrial-complex.html

Quote

Roughly 10 percent of the $2.2 trillion in factory output in the United States goes into the production of weapons sold mainly to the Defense Department for use by the armed forces.

 

[Zeitgeist]

Taking the Vimy ridge Was a turning point for sure.  It set the stage for further advances that summer.  Anyway, many countries made important contributions in both wars.  Yes these were stupid and unnecessary wars, but when countries start invading other countries and become a threat to security, we have to respond if we value freedom.  Some countries turned a blind eye.  There are always choices.  That’s what’s so wrong about Trump’s bromance with Putin.  It’s like Russian actions in the Crimea and Ukraine didn’t happen or don’t matter.  What else doesn’t matter?

[bush_cheney2004]

28 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

..... There are always choices.  That’s what’s so wrong about Trump’s bromance with Putin.  It’s like Russian actions in the Crimea and Ukraine didn’t happen or don’t matter.  What else doesn’t matter?

 

Canada has made its choice...to be a NATO deadbeat.

So why should most of the "post WW2" burden fall on Americans ?

[Boges]

7 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

Canada has made its choice...to be a NATO deadbeat.

So why should most of the "post WW2" burden fall on Americans ?

It's America's choice to not give Healthcare to all its citizen and instead spend more on Military then all other countries combined. 

It seems the NATO Alliance held pretty tight in the wake of 911. All the "deadbeats" respected Article 5. 

Is an Alliance with Russia, who undermines democracy abroad, more important? 

 

[bush_cheney2004]

1 minute ago, Boges said:

It's America's choice to not give Healthcare to all its citizen and instead spend more on Military then all other countries combined. 

It seems the NATO Alliance held pretty tight in the wake of 911. All the "deadbeats" respected Article 5. 

Is an Alliance with Russia, who undermines democracy abroad, more important? 

 

 

Actually, America spends far more on health care for all of its citizens (and illegals) per capita than does Canada, where it takes months just to get an MRI and patients rot in hospital hallways.  

You wanna fight Russia ?    Then pony up the treasure to do it.    Americans already have for generations.

[Boges]

Just now, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

Actually, America spends far more on health care for all of its citizens (and illegals) per capita than does Canada, where it takes months just to get an MRI and patients rot in hospital hallways.  

You wanna fight Russia ?    Then pony up the treasure to do it.    Americans already have for generations.

Perhaps America pays more because you let insurance companies dictate the price to maximize profits. 

You don't need to fight Russia if NATO is intact. Russia's goal is to undermine it, and Trump plays right into their hands by calling countries that don't value the military industrial complex as much as they do deadbeats. 

 

[bush_cheney2004]

6 minutes ago, Boges said:

Perhaps America pays more because you let insurance companies dictate the price to maximize profits.

 

That's not how it works, but the main point is that U.S. health care spending is far higher than in Canada, regardless of military budgets.

 

Quote

You don't need to fight Russia if NATO is intact. Russia's goal is to undermine it, and Trump plays right into their hands by calling countries that don't value the military industrial complex as much as they do deadbeats. 

 

France left NATO in 1966 at the height of the Cold War....so why can't the U.S. leave when there is no Cold War ?

NATO should be undemined...it is an obsolete, unbalanced tool for neo-liberal invasions, bombings, and threat to Russian borders.

If NATO mattered so much, Canada wouldn't be such a military spending deadbeat.

Edited July 31, 2018 by bush_cheney2004

[Boges]

1 minute ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

That's not how it works, but the main point is that U.S. health care spending is far higher than in Canada, regardless of military budgets.

Then why is the AMA such an atrocity? I guess the US just spends poorly on their Healthcare. 

Quote

 

France left NATO in 1966 at the height of the Cold War....so why can't the U.S. leave when there is no Cold War ?

NATO should be undemined...it is obsolete, unbalanced tool for neo-liberal invasions, bombings, and threat to Russian borders.

If NATO mattered so much, Canada wouldn't be such a military spending deadbeat

 

So you're worried about Russian borders now? 

I'm pretty sure if Muslims find a way to kill a few thousand people on American soil again, NATO will become very relevant. 

[DogOnPorch]

3 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

If NATO mattered so much, Canada wouldn't be such a military spending deadbeat.

 

NATO is pretty old hat. NORAD, however, is unlikely to go out of style anytime soon. 

Yowsers. Now there's some serious thrust.