NAFTA negotiations.

[bush_cheney2004]

Just now, Queenmandy85 said:

Another person who should like President Trump...Justin Trudeau. Has anyone heard a peep about India since the President's announcement of tariff's?

 

Yes...now there is a crisis for Canadian chickpea exports....new tariffs from India to punish Trudeau.

[?Impact]

18 hours ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

Canada's "defence" is weak....and getting weaker because of Trudeau.

So what had Trudeau done to weaken Canadian defense? Would it be that 70% increase he committed to last year?

[bush_cheney2004]

4 hours ago, ?Impact said:

So what had Trudeau done to weaken Canadian defense? Would it be that 70% increase he committed to last year?

 

He has pushed defence capital spending out by many years (e.g. ships, aircraft), invested in war criminal settlements instead of disabled veterans, and has reduced CF readiness with less spending on training and deployments, even "peacekeeping®".    Trudeau's biggest harm has been to the morale of Canadian Forces.

http://www.macleans.ca/politics/ottawa/why-canadas-military-risks-returning-to-a-decade-of-darkness/

Of course, Trudeau wants access to American defence spending contracts and jobs, NAFTA or no NAFTA, while offering much less in return.

 

[OftenWrong]

10 hours ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

Yes...now there is a crisis for Canadian chickpea exports....new tariffs from India to punish Trudeau.

Interesting twist to this little story, isn't it? I've looked into this a bit, hard to tell yet if it was done on purpose, but I noticed this:

Trudeau, speaking in Barrie, Ont., says the tariff increase was a domestic decision that doesn’t specifically target Canada, and that he had productive discussions with Prime Minister Narendra Modi on increasing the predictability of future tariffs.
Link

Who says these Indians have no sense of humour?

[bush_cheney2004]

So Canada thinks it is America's BFF and shouldn't be subjected to steel and aluminum tariffs.

White House may think otherwise.

But Canadian media is loving the attention that U.S. networks are giving to the "annoying" neighbours north of the border.

 

Quote

"I don't think we need to block Canadian steel in the name of national security. They're annoying. You know, they're too nice.

But we don't fear a war with Canada," King said.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/trump-tariffs-no-exemptions-1.4561701

 

Edited March 5, 2018 by bush_cheney2004

[Guest]

50 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

So Canada thinks it is America's BFF and shouldn't be subjected to steel and aluminum tariffs.

 

The head of the Steel Workers union in the US said on NPR that it was because we weren't cheating.  I don't know how true that is.

[bush_cheney2004]

4 minutes ago, bcsapper said:

The head of the Steel Workers union in the US said on NPR that it was because we weren't cheating.  I don't know how true that is.

 

The alleged problem is that other producers can funnel their dumping through Canada to beat tariffs and barriers.

At a more basic level, the U.S. should be mitigating risk for strategic materials regardless of current alliances, including Canada.

Edited March 5, 2018 by bush_cheney2004

[OftenWrong]

Donald Trump indicates that there will be no exemption on steel and aluminum tariffs for Canada, unless certain concessions in the NAFTA negotiations go his way-
Trump tweets no steel break for Canada without ‘new & fair’ NAFTA deal (March 5 2018)

Justin Trudeau says steel tariffs move by Trump ‘makes no sense’ (3 Days ago)

The shit is chess, not checkers.

[eyeball]

13 hours ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

At a more basic level, the U.S. should be mitigating risk for strategic materials regardless of current alliances, including Canada.

That was probably what Americans said when selling strategic stuff to Hitler.

I guess most people just figure economics trumps virtue all on its own.

[?Impact]

18 hours ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

He has pushed defence capital spending out by many years

Yes, you would rather bankrupt Canada by having us double our spending immediately? Sorry, but I will take the prudent approach of increasing 70% of several years to your method that will actually destroy the fiscal books for the sake of warmongering.

[bush_cheney2004]

6 hours ago, eyeball said:

That was probably what Americans said when selling strategic stuff to Hitler.

I guess most people just figure economics trumps virtue all on its own.

 

Sure does...that's why Canada is so desperate to keep NAFTA going...who else will buy your depleted uranium ?

[bush_cheney2004]

3 hours ago, ?Impact said:

Yes, you would rather bankrupt Canada by having us double our spending immediately? Sorry, but I will take the prudent approach of increasing 70% of several years to your method that will actually destroy the fiscal books for the sake of warmongering.

 

Not going to happen either way....it's Canada !

[bush_cheney2004]

Great news cycle squirming today from all the usual suspects in Canada.   Freeland was crying in New York....she and Trudeau sure do spend a lot of time in the U.S.

How dare the U.S. impose tariffs on Canadian steel and aluminum !

(Pssst...Canada already imposes tariffs on U.S. dairy and gypsum board...300%)

"But we're a great ally !!!!"     So what ?    Cheap Chinese steel dumping is funneled through Canada to the U.S.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/powerandpolitics/power-and-politics-march-05-2018-1.4563565

[?Impact]

16 hours ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

Cheap Chinese steel dumping is funneled through Canada to the U.S.

That steel is declared as Chinese steel, not Canadian.

[cannuck]

4 hours ago, ?Impact said:

That steel is declared as Chinese steel, not Canadian.

Exactly.   You have to declare country of origin for ANYTHING you bring into the US, and just transshipping does not change that.  If you used the material in manufacturing a product, then shipped THAT into the US, IIRC, it depends on the outside of NAFTA content whether or not is become a declared portion of the entry.

BTW: some relavent personal experience

I had to source some forged aluminum parts a while ago.  Now, Canada is a HUGE player in supplying the material, but I could not find an operation here with the right equipment to form the parts.  So, I went to the big name players in the US, who I KNOW have exactly the right equipment.  Well, as this was for a new product with a completely unkown market potential, I had to honestly tell them that I need a relatively small run, but I would ber happy to comit to their minimum order.  NOT ONE of them could be bothered to return a quote.  That left me the choice of Europe and China, and since I have a friend who was working in Beijing at the time, I had him take my proposal to the largest operations in China, ALL of whom have the exact equipment that is in their US competitors`shops.  EVERY ONE of them came back with a minimum order size and budget price, offering to do the engineering to produce a final design and firm quote either for a very reasonable price, or included in the cost at the minimum order level.

A great deal of the problems the US has is not because they are being abused by China, it is because industry is no longer in the hands of entrepreneurs, but global conglomerates owned and run by the financial community.  The arrogance that I have encountered, I know many others have as well.  On top of that, American consumers were delighted to buy Chinese garbage by the boatload from Wally World and pretty much ever big box store in the country - in deference to what WAS far better quality products made domesticly.  All those American (and Canadian) jobs were not taken by China, they were given to China.

I understand what Trump is doing, and I fully agree.  He is the first President in a very long time to realize that the financial world`s globalization whims have cost the US dearly.  He is the first probably EVER to step up to the plate and fight for American jobs and industry.  I just wish he had the sense to look down the street from his Manhattan office at where one of the biggest sources of the problems originated.  I believe that the foreign policy objective of giving China a chance to break away from Maoist/Marxist communism and join the world as a trade ally has been accomplished, and I think it was good for EVERYONE that this was done, but now is the time to fix the problems that came with it.   Just don't confuse Canada with China when doing so.

Edited March 7, 2018 by cannuck

[bush_cheney2004]

6 hours ago, ?Impact said:

That steel is declared as Chinese steel, not Canadian.

 

I don't care how it is "declared"...it is still in Trump's sights.

Why would Canada think it deserves special consideration compared to any other nation ?

[bush_cheney2004]

2 hours ago, cannuck said:

.....I understand what Trump is doing, and I fully agree.  He is the first President in a very long time to realize that the financial world`s globalization whims have cost the US dearly.  He is the first probably EVER to step up to the plate and fight for American jobs and industry.  I just wish he had the sense to look down the street from his Manhattan office at where one of the biggest sources of the problems originated.  I believe that the foreign policy objective of giving China a chance to break away from Maoist/Marxist communism and join the world as a trade ally has been accomplished, and I think it was good for EVERYONE that this was done, but now is the time to fix the problems that came with it.   Just don't confuse Canada with China when doing so.

 

Agreed....President Trump is purposely attacking steel and aluminum imports, consistent with his campaign rhetoric.  

China is not a major exporter of either to the U.S., but Canada is and can't realistically expect to be totally spared, at least not without concessions on some other "file".

I played the NAFTA country of origin source content game back in the late 90's as a Tier 3 automotive supplier, and I'm sure Canada knows how to play the game too.   Hell, we even brought in Chinese nationals and taught them how to take our jobs for possible access to their growing market.    Suckers !

[Thinkinoutsidethebox]

And so it begins, no matter what in NAFTA the minions agree on, Trump is there to undermine it... 

Canuck,  you are right, Trump does see what's happening but is pandering to the American elite. At least he's not hiding it.

American made products imported into Canada can have "Made in America"  written on them even if a majority of the components are made outside the US. I was involved in importing a natural gas compressor into the US and it was required to be labeled "Made in Canada" even though over 90% of the components were made outside Canada, has that changed? 

 

[bush_cheney2004]

How Canada plays the protectionist game at the border....." Because, you know, Canada. "

 

Quote

Canada's scorn of Donald Trump's protectionism stinks of hypocrisy: Neil Macdonald

Trump has protested the obstructive nature of the Canadian border, and he's right

http://www.cbc.ca/news/opinion/canada-protectionism-1.4572994

 

[Thinkinoutsidethebox]

Trump is having a great time with this https://www.theglobeandmail.com/world/article-trump-boasts-that-he-made-up-trade-facts-in-meeting-with-trudeau/ . I think there is way more guessing in trade deficits/surpluses than bean counters are willing to admit, I wouldn't be surprised Trump isn't that far off.

It's interesting, our "experts" and fearless leader are running all over the globe signing these trade agreements, each one undercutting our leverage in the NAFTA deal. The Americans aren't just going to let Canada take more of their business away and just pander to our demands, that would be stupid.

As I've said before, Canada should stop exporting goods and services at firesale prices and importing the same at retail. 

[Tullia]

Trudeau is staying silent and not playing into Trump's tweets along with the rest of our Politicians, as they should:

Quote

To do this, Canada has assembled a seasoned team of NAFTA negotiators; created a war room in Ottawa; and made saving NAFTA a bipartisan cause, enlisting the help of the opposition Conservatives and former Conservative prime minister Brian Mulroney.

Most of all, Trudeau has imposed an iron discipline on the government, which means forbidding cabinet ministers or any senior officials from responding to Trump's taunts or provocative tweets. So, when Trump made his comments yesterday, the prime minister was silent, on vacation. The minister of foreign affairs sent out her press secretary, who made an innocuous statement.

Canada knows better. It may not get its way with a mercurial, dissembling President, but it is firm, clear and unfazed, its eyes on the prize.

https://www.cnn.com/2018/03/15/opinions/how-justin-trudeau-copes-with-trump-lies-cohen/index.html

 

[bush_cheney2004]

Justin Trudeau is desperate to save NAFTA....losing NAFTA would cement his party's fate for the 2019 election.

To Trump, NAFTA is just a political chew toy.

[Tullia]

11 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

Justin Trudeau is desperate to save NAFTA....losing NAFTA would cement his party's fate for the 2019 election.

To Trump, NAFTA is just a political chew toy.

Of course he wants to save NAFTA.  Why wouldn't he.

[bush_cheney2004]

1 minute ago, Tullia said:

Of course he wants to save NAFTA.  Why wouldn't he.

 

Because the history of the FTA/NAFTA tells us that the Liberal Party was very much against both when negotiated.

Maude Barlow wrote books about "Canada for sale"...she still does.

[Kerfuffle]

5 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

Justin Trudeau is desperate to save NAFTA....losing NAFTA would cement his party's fate for the 2019 election.

To Trump, NAFTA is just a political chew toy.

NAFTA will not be on Trump's priority list for the moment as his organization is being subpoenaed to turn over all documents....he is sweating that they will find the payments to Russian hooker Ivana Peeonu.