Guest Posted February 19, 2018 Report Share Posted February 19, 2018 (edited) 13 minutes ago, Kerfuffle said: Its really a front so they can bring back that cheap weak piss they call beer. Actually, the Americans are really quite good at beer. As are the Canadians. It's not all Labatts any more. I'm really quite happy about it. Edited February 19, 2018 by bcsapper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kerfuffle Posted February 19, 2018 Report Share Posted February 19, 2018 1 minute ago, bcsapper said: Actually, the Americans are getting quite good at beer. As are the Canadians. It's not all Labatts any more. I'm really quite happy about it. Good to hear....I haven't had a Yankee brew in many years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 19, 2018 Report Share Posted February 19, 2018 Just now, Kerfuffle said: Good to hear....I haven't had a Yankee brew in many years. There are many, many decent craft breweries on both sides of the 49th. It's really quite frustrating knowing one isn't going to be able to sample them all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OftenWrong Posted February 19, 2018 Report Share Posted February 19, 2018 2 minutes ago, bcsapper said: There are many, many decent craft breweries on both sides of the 49th. It's really quite frustrating knowing one isn't going to be able to sample them all. Yep. Evidently the poster knows nothing about beer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kerfuffle Posted February 19, 2018 Report Share Posted February 19, 2018 1 minute ago, bcsapper said: There are many, many decent craft breweries on both sides of the 49th. It's really quite frustrating knowing one isn't going to be able to sample them all. Be fun trying:) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 19, 2018 Report Share Posted February 19, 2018 41 minutes ago, Kerfuffle said: Be fun trying:) Oh, it is... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
?Impact Posted February 19, 2018 Report Share Posted February 19, 2018 2 hours ago, Kerfuffle said: Cant understand why anyone would use ketchup anyway I still remember, many decades later, a couple of week long outdoor education workshop I went on in college. There was one guy that had to have ketchup on everything, even pancakes in the morning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
?Impact Posted February 19, 2018 Report Share Posted February 19, 2018 2 hours ago, bcsapper said: There are many, many decent craft breweries on both sides of the 49th. It's really quite frustrating knowing one isn't going to be able to sample them all. Agreed, some of the craft breweries are excellent. I think the original post has more to do with the mass bottled piss (Miller lite, Budweiser, etc.). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 19, 2018 Report Share Posted February 19, 2018 2 minutes ago, ?Impact said: Agreed, some of the craft breweries are excellent. I think the original post has more to do with the mass bottled piss (Miller lite, Budweiser, etc.). Labatts, Kokanee, Canada has nothing to be proud of in that regard. Heck, even Yorkshire has Websters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thinkinoutsidethebox Posted February 19, 2018 Author Report Share Posted February 19, 2018 Craft breweries and microbreweries bring up an interesting concept that we should be exploring. I think this is what our world needs, bring back and support small business, Kelloggs, Caterpillar, PepsiCo etc. can go pound sand, we can do better making it for ourselves. Canada has 36 million people, there is no lack of talent, labour or local market for our made at home products, if we work together we could be a truly financially and culturally independent nation that people from other countries would be falling over each other to visit. We are trying to compete against other countries on a field that is constantly tilting and twisting with new challenges being thrown up every day all while destroying our environment, economy and way of life because we can't export our natural resources, talent, labour, money and power fast enough. We make a deal with another country and their economy tanks, or they fall into civil war, or they elect Trump, or they use our products for human rights and environmental abuses etc. Canada has a big enough market for Bombardier aircraft, for Spitz sunflower treats, for the Western Star trucks, military vehicles and busses we used to build, for the Electro-Motive locomotives we used to build, for the Blackberry smartphones we used to develop and make, for the natural resources we mine, why do we need to sell these resources to foreign entities only to have them move them out and/or shut them down? Maybe these are only a tiny fraction of the national economy but that combined with a million other similar deals aren't we experiencing death by a thousand cuts? Automotive parts manufacturing? The dairy industry? It's interesting I have more faith in the people and resources of this country than our prime minister and his patriotic flag waving supporters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OftenWrong Posted February 19, 2018 Report Share Posted February 19, 2018 11 hours ago, ?Impact said: Agreed, some of the craft breweries are excellent. I think the original post has more to do with the mass bottled piss (Miller lite, Budweiser, etc.). Coors Light is ok. It's not convenient to crack a bottle of Huronic Tripel, in the hockey locker room. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OftenWrong Posted February 19, 2018 Report Share Posted February 19, 2018 17 minutes ago, Thinkinoutsidethebox said: It's interesting I have more faith in the people and resources of this country than our prime minister and his patriotic flag waving supporters. I doubt it. In any case, what's important is to have an economy that is resilient when there is change, and to be able to adapt to the changing demands of our time. Globalization, too much importing and outsourcing does make our economy dependant on others. We would do well to take a page from the current US administration to promote the development of Canadian businesses. That means providing better tax incentives for both small and large, for which our federal government and the Ontario Liberals have taken the completely wrong direction. The new NDP leader is singing the same old song, "we need more taxes". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
?Impact Posted February 19, 2018 Report Share Posted February 19, 2018 2 hours ago, OftenWrong said: That means providing better tax incentives for both small and large Taxes have shifted almost completely from corporations and onto individuals with lower income between the 60's and today, and you want more of that madness? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted February 19, 2018 Report Share Posted February 19, 2018 5 hours ago, Thinkinoutsidethebox said: ...I think this is what our world needs, bring back and support small business, Kelloggs, Caterpillar, PepsiCo etc. can go pound sand, we can do better making it for ourselves. Canada has 36 million people, there is no lack of talent, labour or local market for our made at home products, if we work together we could be a truly financially and culturally independent nation that people from other countries would be falling over each other to visit. Not yet...Canada lacks sufficient domestic capital to achieve such goals. Bombardier has been on the public dole for years. Canada begs for foreign direct investment (FDI) as a matter of national policy to address this reality. Quote Canada has a big enough market for Bombardier aircraft, for Spitz sunflower treats, for the Western Star trucks, military vehicles and busses we used to build, for the Electro-Motive locomotives we used to build, General Dynamics Land Systems is a wholly owned subsidiary of General Dynamics, a U.S. corporation. EMD London was never Canadian owned, and only existed to build American locomotives in Canada to beat stiff import tariffs. If you see "Canada" at the end of a firms name, then it usually means it is a subsidiary of a foreign corporation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
?Impact Posted February 19, 2018 Report Share Posted February 19, 2018 3 hours ago, bush_cheney2004 said: Bombardier has been on the public dole for years. American aircraft manufactures are the largest recipients of public dole in the world. They create a military unit, and then get their local Congressman to grease the wheels and receive trillions in aid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted February 19, 2018 Report Share Posted February 19, 2018 8 minutes ago, ?Impact said: American aircraft manufactures are the largest recipients of public dole in the world. ...and they deliver lots of government contracted aircraft and systems...lots more than Bombardier is even capable of. It's so bad in Canada, Trudeau is trying to buy old corroding F-18 strike fighters from Australia, which were built by those same American manufacturers. Bombardier is even hated in Canada for being so expensive to prop up while also being so inept...but votes cost money, right ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thinkinoutsidethebox Posted February 20, 2018 Author Report Share Posted February 20, 2018 17 hours ago, bush_cheney2004 said: Not yet...Canada lacks sufficient domestic capital to achieve such goals. Bombardier has been on the public dole for years. Canada begs for foreign direct investment (FDI) as a matter of national policy to address this reality. Every country prints it's own money for domestic use, Canada has all the domestic capital it needs (if we would just stop exporting it), what it lacks is ingenuity and foresight in it's leadership. Today we are borrowing money to give to foreign entities. It's time to upgrade our national policy, how much you wanna bet the US does it Canada will follow? Bombardier is a perfect example, since we are supporting them anyway, why not call it an investment in equipment and have them sell to domestic carriers? Why can't Air Canada, Westjet etc. use domestic built instead of equipment from a company that's trying to bury our domestic manufacturer? 17 hours ago, bush_cheney2004 said: General Dynamics Land Systems is a wholly owned subsidiary of General Dynamics, a U.S. corporation. EMD London was never Canadian owned, and only existed to build American locomotives in Canada to beat stiff import tariffs. If you see "Canada" at the end of a firms name, then it usually means it is a subsidiary of a foreign corporation. I get that. And guess where the profits for that endeavor are going... Western Star actually built Iveco LSVWs in Canada before they were sold to Daimler, anyway I don't know the intricate details, my point is we in Canada have the ability to produce our own if we would choose to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thinkinoutsidethebox Posted February 20, 2018 Author Report Share Posted February 20, 2018 23 hours ago, OftenWrong said: I doubt it. In any case, what's important is to have an economy that is resilient when there is change, and to be able to adapt to the changing demands of our time. Globalization, too much importing and outsourcing does make our economy dependant on others. We would do well to take a page from the current US administration to promote the development of Canadian businesses. That means providing better tax incentives for both small and large, for which our federal government and the Ontario Liberals have taken the completely wrong direction. The new NDP leader is singing the same old song, "we need more taxes". Yet virtually every day our prime minister climbs aboard his taxpayer provided aircraft to give Canada away to anyone that'll take it. Personally I don't think he has a clue what he is doing, the closest he's ever been to business is having his nanny order him a latte. Every day day we are selling out to and becoming more dependant on foreign entities, and every day we are taking hits because of that. Whether it's reneging on promises and moving business out of the country, recessions, tax policies etc. why do we keep thinking these people/corporations/countries have our best interests at heart? Their goals are to milk Canada for everything she's got then get the hell out whether it's by eliminating competition, getting control and taking our natural resources, or exploiting our talent and labor. In their mind we are no different than any third world country and they are going for as much as they can. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted February 20, 2018 Report Share Posted February 20, 2018 5 hours ago, Thinkinoutsidethebox said: Every country prints it's own money for domestic use, Canada has all the domestic capital it needs (if we would just stop exporting it), what it lacks is ingenuity and foresight in it's leadership. Today we are borrowing money to give to foreign entities. It's time to upgrade our national policy, how much you wanna bet the US does it Canada will follow? It is not a matter of just printing more fiat currency with selfies of a queen from across the ocean. Canada has real structural limitations (e.g. banking system) that limit how much domestic capital can be raised and leveraged. There are just not enough rich people and corps with deep pockets in Canada to take on huge investment projects, and Canada needs foreign export markets (e.g. United States) to make many projects viable. For instance, the oilsands would never have been developed to such an extent without foreign direct investment (mostly from the Americans at first). Bitumen is sold at a steep discount to West Texas crude because of this and Canada's refusal to build pipelines, refineries, and other infrastructure. Quote Western Star actually built Iveco LSVWs in Canada before they were sold to Daimler, anyway I don't know the intricate details, my point is we in Canada have the ability to produce our own if we would choose to. Western Star was originally a subsidiary of the White Motor Company out of Cleveland Ohio and Portland Oregon. Canadian capital has been invested in foreign assets (e.g. U.S. railroads, mining, etc.) consistent with raw commodities extraction and transport. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted February 20, 2018 Report Share Posted February 20, 2018 5 hours ago, Thinkinoutsidethebox said: Yet virtually every day our prime minister climbs aboard his taxpayer provided aircraft to give Canada away to anyone that'll take it. Personally I don't think he has a clue what he is doing, the closest he's ever been to business is having his nanny order him a latte. Kathleen Wynne and her "progressive" Liberal circus have done far more damage than Trudeau in Ontario, which is nearly 50% of Canada's GDP, and most heavily dependent on exports to the U.S. Labour and energy costs are driving businesses out of Ontario. Quote Every day day we are selling out to and becoming more dependant on foreign entities, and every day we are taking hits because of that. Yes....and predicted long ago by Canadian authors (e.g. Maude Barlow), but Canada had little choice if it wanted to grow its economy. That's why Justin Trudeau has spent so much energy and U.S. travel time for his minions to preserve NAFTA. Canada is still very dependent on the U.S. economy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
?Impact Posted February 20, 2018 Report Share Posted February 20, 2018 5 hours ago, Thinkinoutsidethebox said: Bombardier is a perfect example, since we are supporting them anyway, why not call it an investment in equipment and have them sell to domestic carriers? Why can't Air Canada, Westjet etc. use domestic built instead of equipment from a company that's trying to bury our domestic manufacturer? Both Air Canada and West jet currently have Bombardier aircraft. Note however that Bombardier specializes in regional aircraft, not ones suitable for long haul and international flights. 5 hours ago, Thinkinoutsidethebox said: Yet virtually every day our prime minister climbs aboard his taxpayer provided aircraft to give Canada away to anyone that'll take it. Personally I don't think he has a clue what he is doing, the closest he's ever been to business is having his nanny order him a latte. Sorry, but these are team sports and there are many in his government that do know what they are doing. Other than a childish partisan swipe, your comment displays complete ignorance for what is happening. Take the India visit for example, where the first day of business included $1 billion in bilateral investment; as for selling out Canada the equally ignorant pundits could say it was India that was given away. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thinkinoutsidethebox Posted February 21, 2018 Author Report Share Posted February 21, 2018 (edited) 17 hours ago, bush_cheney2004 said: It is not a matter of just printing more fiat currency with selfies of a queen from across the ocean. Canada has real structural limitations (e.g. banking system) that limit how much domestic capital can be raised and leveraged. There are just not enough rich people and corps with deep pockets in Canada to take on huge investment projects, and Canada needs foreign export markets (e.g. United States) to make many projects viable. For instance, the oilsands would never have been developed to such an extent without foreign direct investment (mostly from the Americans at first). Bitumen is sold at a steep discount to West Texas crude because of this and Canada's refusal to build pipelines, refineries, and other infrastructure. And we don't have the talent and resources to refine and ship petroleum products directly to where we are importing exactly the same products and paying inflated prices plus shipping plus upgrading and profits to foreign investors? The brilliance behind that is absolutely mind boggling... Quote Western Star was originally a subsidiary of the White Motor Company out of Cleveland Ohio and Portland Oregon. Canadian capital has been invested in foreign assets (e.g. U.S. railroads, mining, etc.) consistent with raw commodities extraction and transport. Western tar was also Canadian owned a couple times before it was sold off again and taken out of the country. Edited February 21, 2018 by Thinkinoutsidethebox Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thinkinoutsidethebox Posted February 21, 2018 Author Report Share Posted February 21, 2018 17 hours ago, bush_cheney2004 said: Kathleen Wynne and her "progressive" Liberal circus have done far more damage than Trudeau in Ontario, which is nearly 50% of Canada's GDP, and most heavily dependent on exports to the U.S. Labour and energy costs are driving businesses out of Ontario. Well, instead of shipping Alberta's cheap energy right past Ontario where we are importing it why not refine and use it there? It would bring down the cost of labor as well. 17 hours ago, bush_cheney2004 said: Yes....and predicted long ago by Canadian authors (e.g. Maude Barlow), but Canada had little choice if it wanted to grow its economy. That's why Justin Trudeau has spent so much energy and U.S. travel time for his minions to preserve NAFTA. Canada is still very dependent on the U.S. economy. Canada can grow within itself, we do have the talent, labor, resources, everything we need except for the will which is hugely influenced by the elite. We as peasants can't see beyond the end of the day no matter how much we as humans are sacrificing the well being of generations to come. We are giving the American (and world) elites our dependence on them and they are more than happy to take it. Like Trump, maybe Trudeau, his minions and the rest of us should step back and look at the big picture. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted February 21, 2018 Report Share Posted February 21, 2018 30 minutes ago, Thinkinoutsidethebox said: And we don't have the talent and resources to refine and ship petroleum products directly to where we are importing exactly the same products and paying inflated prices plus shipping plus upgrading and profits to foreign investors? The brilliance behind that is absolutely mind boggling... It's the Canadian way....trade barriers between provinces is worse than anything Trump has envisioned. Politics and votes, east vs. west, Anglo vs. Franco, hewers of wood, etc., etc. Quote Western tar was also Canadian owned a couple times before it was sold off again and taken out of the country. Yep...the trend continues to this day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted February 21, 2018 Report Share Posted February 21, 2018 5 minutes ago, Thinkinoutsidethebox said: Well, instead of shipping Alberta's cheap energy right past Ontario where we are importing it why not refine and use it there? It would bring down the cost of labor as well. Canada can grow within itself, we do have the talent, labor, resources, everything we need except for the will which is hugely influenced by the elite. We as peasants can't see beyond the end of the day no matter how much we as humans are sacrificing the well being of generations to come. We are giving the American (and world) elites our dependence on them and they are more than happy to take it. Like Trump, maybe Trudeau, his minions and the rest of us should step back and look at the big picture. Because....Canada. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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