Germany? Talks about identity?

[betsy]

A German politician, who's speculated to succeed Merkel........ is rocking the boat.   

 

Quote

 

One of Germany’s most prominent politcians has launched an oustpoken attack on the increasing use of the English language in every day life, and called for a crackdown.

“Co-existence can only work in Germany if we all speak German,” Jens Spahn, seen by many as a potential successor to Angela Merkel, said. “We can and should expect this from every immigrant.”

Mr Spahn, currently junior finance minister, reserved his greatest anger for the growing number of people who work in the German capital despite speaking no German.

But the German language is increasingly becoming a political issue amid the perceived threat from immigration and globalisation.

 

With Germany facing high levels of immigration, language has increasingly become an issue of identity. With people divided over what constitutes German culture, the language is the one element all sides agree on.

 

“This is the need to have a home, to feel at home,” Mr Spahn said. “People want to be able to know what they can expect in every day life and that things aren’t changing all the time. Not every cultural difference is an enrichment. I have to accept the growing number of headscarfs on our streets, but I do not feel enriched by it.”

Three senior German MPs made international headlines this week with a letter to Mrs Merkel calling on her to challenge English’s dominance as the working language of the EU, and promote the use of German.

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/08/14/would-never-find-lunacy-paris-german-politician-attacks-english/

 

You'd think that Germany, of all European nations, shouldn't care that much about their own cultural identity!  After all, aren't they that progressive?  Promoting, and being steadfast example of an open border? But, you could sense the underlying resentment, and simmering anger from that boldened statement.   Yes, the issue is about English speaking.....and yet, the tirade ends up to include immigration.

 

What other nations worry about losing their identity?

 

Edited August 18, 2017 by betsy

[betsy]

 

An interesting article.

 

Quote

 

The Death of the Most Generous Nation on Earth

Little Sweden has taken in far more refugees per capita than any country in Europe. But in doing so, it’s tearing itself apart.

 

http://foreignpolicy.com/2016/02/10/the-death-of-the-most-generous-nation-on-earth-sweden-syria-refugee-europe/

[Rue]

6 hours ago, betsy said:

A German politician, who's speculated to succeed Merkel........ is rocking the boat.   

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/08/14/would-never-find-lunacy-paris-german-politician-attacks-english/

 

You'd think that Germany, of all European nations, shouldn't care that much about their own cultural identity!  After all, aren't they that progressive?  Promoting, and being steadfast example of an open border? But, you could sense the underlying resentment, and simmering anger from that boldened statement.   Yes, the issue is about English speaking.....and yet, the tirade ends up to include immigration.

 

What other nations worry about losing their identity?

 

He does  sound  like Jacques Parizeau or other Quebec separatists doesn't he....Germans all speak more than one language sometimes 3, 4. Most Europeans speak at least 2. I think what we see Besty and maybe I am overanalyzing is that with so many Muslims having come into Germany, ultra nationalist German feelings are coming back and should it be a surprise?

In the past Jews or Romas were for the most part completely segregated from Germans or assimilated invisibly into the system. They were both passive. Now they have Muslims are quite assertive about demanding rights and not learning German and assimilating to Western values so the friction. Those moderate Muslims that came to Germany and did  assimilate are the first to feel the brunt of this. People can't  clearly distinguish between Muslims at this point in Europe. They see the burqa, other visible attire, brown skin, and they of course are thinking what next-a car in the crowd, some guy with a knife, etc. Its what Muslim terrorists are achieving with their attacks-a backlash against all Muslims in Europe which in turn alienates Muslims and makes them more likely to get angry and become militant and radical.

Its a vicious cycle and how we enunciate in democracy what we will NOT put up with, is the question these days. You have for example in Canada. this jack ass of a Prime Minister through his silence collapsing the immigration system and creating a flood of illegal migrants-Trudeau will not limit what a Canadian is. He was brought up in a world where no one said no to him so he has no idea how to say no to  others.

Politicians coming up will be saying no to a lot of things. Trump got elected saying NO to many things.  Extremist neo Nazis are saying no. That NO is coming in response to the constant yes.

 

[-TSS-]

Election year in Germany this year, so they have to pretend to be tough but once the election is over the same old cuck-business will continue.

[Moonlight Graham]

I don't think it's controversial for Germans to demand people who immigrate know or learn German.  Canada does the same thing.  Language is a massive part of culture, there's not much more divisive than language because if you can't even do something as basic as communicate their your neighbour you'll never feel a part of the same "group".

[Peter F]

True, and the kids learn to speak German very well. Immigration isn't about the immigrant, its about their kids. They integrate into society just as well as German kids. Assuming the Germans let them of course.

 

[betsy]

13 hours ago, Rue said:

He does  sound  like Jacques Parizeau or other Quebec separatists doesn't he....Germans all speak more than one language sometimes 3, 4. Most Europeans speak at least 2. I think what we see Besty and maybe I am overanalyzing is that with so many Muslims having come into Germany, ultra nationalist German feelings are coming back and should it be a surprise?

 

Yes, that's what it seems like - and I think it's only a natural reaction to become nationalist when you feel your own culture is threatened in your own land.  No matter how liberal a person is, at the end of the day, self-preservation will assert itself. 

That boldened statement by that politician was quite harsh - it dripped with disdain about "headscarfed," thus by his tone I could sense a deep resentment which even his position as a politician, couldn't contain.

When a mass of people from one culture/ideology comes pouring in a country - even if they are a peaceful people, and even if you feel compassion for their plight -   you can't help but feel like you're being invaded, I suppose.  Numbers will amount to impact, whether we see it or not. 

 

 

Quote

In the past Jews or Romas were for the most part completely segregated from Germans or assimilated invisibly into the system. They were both passive.

Nazi Germany was the reason for massive exodus of refugees fleeing persecution from the Nazis.  I think Germany is, in a way,  trying to atone for that past.....thus they're going overboard with opening their borders.

 

 

Quote

Now they have Muslims are quite assertive about demanding rights and not learning German and assimilating to Western values so the friction. Those moderate Muslims that came to Germany and did  assimilate are the first to feel the brunt of this. People can't  clearly distinguish between Muslims at this point in Europe. They see the burqa, other visible attire, brown skin, and they of course are thinking what next-a car in the crowd, some guy with a knife, etc. Its what Muslim terrorists are achieving with their attacks-a backlash against all Muslims in Europe which in turn alienates Muslims and makes them more likely to get angry and become militant and radical.

Things are going to get worst in Europe.   I haven't read the news for today yet, but last night in Spain there were Anti-Muslim protesters that were met by counter-protesters.  Europe will implode.

 

 

Quote

Its a vicious cycle

It is. 

 

 

Quote

 

and how we enunciate in democracy what we will NOT put up with, is the question these days. You have for example in Canada. this jack ass of a Prime Minister through his silence collapsing the immigration system and creating a flood of illegal migrants-Trudeau will not limit what a Canadian is. He was brought up in a world where no one said no to him so he has no idea how to say no to  others.

Politicians coming up will be saying no to a lot of things. Trump got elected saying NO to many things.  Extremist neo Nazis are saying no. That NO is coming in response to the constant yes.

 

 

 

The Canadian media - being all liberal rags  - will protect him.  We don't really have a conservative mainstream media to balance things out, so we're like a Communist regime in that way - the media is a huge propaganda machine for the liberals.

 

Media in Europe are careful not to mention "Islam" or "Allah."  

Even when they were reporting about the stabbings in Finland, media reported that some witnesses had said the perpetrator shouted "God is great, in Arabic language."    Do you believe witnesses will say it like that? 

Unless you're hiding under the rock for the past decade, who doesn't know what "ALLAH," is? They sanitize the message!

Edited August 19, 2017 by betsy

[betsy]

3 hours ago, Peter F said:

True, and the kids learn to speak German very well. Immigration isn't about the immigrant, its about their kids. They integrate into society just as well as German kids. Assuming the Germans let them of course.

 

 

It depends.  Some kids have been brought up with a hardline attitude.  Some Muslim refugees want to integrate.....but not all.      Take it from another Muslim.

 

Quote

 

Others are less sanguine, among them Germany’s best-known Syrian immigrant of an earlier generation, Bassam Tibi. The 72-year-old Mr Tibi was born into an aristocratic family in Damascus. He learned to recite the Koran as a child, and grew up imbibing the anti-Semitism that pervaded his environment. But in 1962 he came to Germany, studied with renowned German-Jewish philosophers such as Theodor Adorno and Max Horkheimer, and embraced the West’s tolerant and open society.

As a professor of international relations at the University of Göttingen for four decades, he popularised the term “Euro-Islam”, arguing that Muslims can and should integrate by blending their traditional and adopted cultures into a secularised and modern faith.

But of late Mr Tibi has turned pessimistic. Mrs Merkel’s welcome last year, he thinks, could even turn Germany into a “failed state”.

Recently, he spoke with ten young Syrians. “Two of them spoke German, were doing well, and reminded me of myself back then,” he says. “The other eight were telling me that ‘Allah gave us Germany as a refuge, not the Germans’.”

Most Syrians and other Muslims, he now thinks, will never integrate, instead retreating into misogynistic, anti-Semitic and anti-democratic worldviews and segregating themselves in radicalised enclaves.

 

https://www.economist.com/news/europe/21706329-year-after-angela-merkel-welcomed-migrants-two-syrians-differ-whether-integration-can

 

Why are there "home-grown" radicals? 

Edited August 19, 2017 by betsy

[betsy]

But of course, refugees and immigrants would want to preserve their identity, too!  That's also natural. 

 

Quote

Mr Tibi, convinced that integration will fail, blames not only the refugees. The German government thinks the challenge of integration boils down to teaching refugees German and getting them jobs. But it is really about identity, he says, and this is where German society fails. During his own stints at American universities, he was always impressed by how quickly he felt a sense of belonging.

In Germany, even after writing 30 books in German and marrying a German wife, people still make him feel foreign. “I suffer from an identity crisis, but I go to a psychoanalyst and lie on the couch,” Mr Tibi says. “These 16-year-olds go to Islamic State.”

https://www.economist.com/news/europe/21706329-year-after-angela-merkel-welcomed-migrants-two-syrians-differ-whether-integration-can

 

How can two identities (with clashing values), really co-exists?  One has to give.

Edited August 19, 2017 by betsy

[WestCoastRunner]

1 hour ago, betsy said:

 

The Canadian media - being all liberal rags  - will protect him.  We don't really have a conservative mainstream media to balance things out, so we're like a Communist regime in that way - the media is a huge propaganda machine for the liberals.

 

That's odd when you consider that in the 2015 election The Globe and Mail, National Post, Toronto Sun, Ottawa Citizen as well as all The Sun newspapers all endorsed the conservative party. 

[Michael Hardner]

This is a common line from Twilight Zone Conservatives.  They decry the MSM as being liberal, even the National Post isn't considered right enough.  

At the same time, they don't seem to realize that their views are fringe.  I have encountered such attitudes from campus Marxists also.  I don't know if this position is tactical, or self-deluded zealotry.

[eyeball]

On 8/18/2017 at 7:06 AM, betsy said:

What other nations worry about losing their identity?

 

First Nations.

[GostHacked]

19 hours ago, -TSS- said:

Election year in Germany this year, so they have to pretend to be tough but once the election is over the same old cuck-business will continue.

Trump types are going to be quite popular in other nations.

[GostHacked]

2 hours ago, eyeball said:

First Nations.

A good point.

[hot enough]

7 hours ago, betsy said:

Yes, that's what it seems like - and I think it's only a natural reaction to become nationalist when you feel your own culture is threatened in your own land.  No matter how liberal a person is, at the end of the day, self-preservation will assert itself. 

...

When a mass of people from one culture/ideology comes pouring in a country - even if they are a peaceful people, and even if you feel compassion for their plight -   you can't help but feel like you're being invaded, I suppose.  Numbers will amount to impact, whether we see it or not. 

Thinking people don't react in this knee jerk fashion, Betsy. That is reserved for folks who are highly gullible, the easily brainwashed, the people of "religion". 

No compassion at all from you for the people who were the subjects of US and Canadian genocides. 

Edited August 19, 2017 by hot enough

[eyeball]

1 hour ago, GostHacked said:

A good point.

Its the principle that counts.

[-TSS-]

German elections ended ina virtual deadlock as both the governing parties(or all three of them to be precise as the CSU is the sister-party of the CDU) suffered losses to the extent that the Social Democrats have announced that they wil not participate the next government.

If they keep their word, the only solution to form a majority-government is to have CDU/CSU, FDP(Liberals) and the Greens to form a so-called Jamaica-coalition. Even that is considered unworkable as the German Greens are far more left-leaning than their counterparts in many other European countries.

This deadlock follows the success of the Eurosceptic AfD-party which made it to the third place despite being demonised by all others and the media. Or perhaps just because of it.

My prediction is new elections within a year.

 

 

[-TSS-]

The horrible xenophobic nazi-party which was elected to the German Parliament as the third largest party actually has more immigrant background MPs than Merkel's own party.

 

https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-germany-election-immigration/germanys-far-right-afd-has-more-immigrant-mps-than-merkels-conservatives-idUKKCN1C42GT

[H10]

I do wonder, if it is the whites who are naive on this topic.  Why would they assume immigrants from a country that have resisted large waves of foreign cultures and gave up their true identities for islamic arabic ones would all of a sudden become flag waving germans upon immigration.  Turks gave up their entire christian identity, their entire asian identity, to become muslims and speak arabic and wear hijabs, why would they all of a sudden become brown white men?

 

And who does that anyways.

[OftenWrong]

The tree-huggers think that everyone else in the world thinks and feels like they do. Sunny ways. They think everyone, even people from foreign lands want to welcome people with loving open arms. But the reality is, they don't.

That is why for example leftists were so deeply shocked when Donald Trump won the election, they just couldn't imagine that anyone would approve of somebody like him. German politicians (and voters) are equally naive, as they reap the bitter harvest of what they've sown. 

Edited November 1, 2017 by OftenWrong

[taxme]

On 8/18/2017 at 7:06 AM, betsy said:

A German politician, who's speculated to succeed Merkel........ is rocking the boat.   

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/08/14/would-never-find-lunacy-paris-german-politician-attacks-english/

 

You'd think that Germany, of all European nations, shouldn't care that much about their own cultural identity!  After all, aren't they that progressive?  Promoting, and being steadfast example of an open border? But, you could sense the underlying resentment, and simmering anger from that boldened statement.   Yes, the issue is about English speaking.....and yet, the tirade ends up to include immigration.

 

What other nations worry about losing their identity?

 

Maybe the British/European Canadians should start to worry about losing their identity before it is too late for them to be able to do anything about it. The Germans now have an identity problem that will only get worse thanks to mad lady Merkle who has allowed over a million so-called refugees into her country, and she wants to bring in more. The Germans should not be worried about English but more about the Arab and African languages that they will have to learn to live and put up with. Those foreigners are not going to concern themselves about assimilating into German culture but are going to most likely try and get the Germans to assimilate into their culture. When will the Western man and woman ever start to get it? It's not looking good so far. But hey.