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Compensating Khadr


betsy

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4 hours ago, drummindiver said:

Well, he was a murderer and a terrorist soooo.........

He's not a murderer according to any legitimate court or legal confession. And whatever you say he was or did is moot because he was an indoctrinated child soldier/combatant/terrorist/freedom-fighter....whatever.

He was a fricken kid for Christ's sake!  WTF is the matter with you people? 

 

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5 hours ago, eyeball said:

He's not a murderer according to any legitimate court or legal confession. And whatever you say he was or did is moot because he was an indoctrinated child soldier/combatant/terrorist/freedom-fighter....whatever.

He was a fricken kid for Christ's sake!  WTF is the matter with you people? 

 

 

So was Marc Wabafiyebazu, 15-year-old drug dealing Canadian murderer in Miami.

He didn't get $10.5 million...he took  plea deal for a 3rd degree murder conviction, boot camp, and the U.S. deported his ass.

....but he was just a kid, right ?

Why is Wabafiyebazu responsible for his actions but Khadr is not ?

Edited by bush_cheney2004
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3 hours ago, eyeball said:

He's not a murderer according to any legitimate court or legal confession. And whatever you say he was or did is moot because he was an indoctrinated child soldier/combatant/terrorist/freedom-fighter....whatever.

He was a fricken kid for Christ's sake!  WTF is the matter with you people? 

 

Keep repeating it over and over, the boogy man is still  in your bed. WTF is the matter with you thinking if you deny what Kadr is it makes him and what he stands for harmless?

You have any idea how many 14, 15 year olds went underage to WW2 and died so this nation would not be destroyed by the very values you now take for granted? The price was paid by legitimate child soldiers. You are ignorant of your country's history. You are ignorant of the difference between such brave men and what Kadr did and still stands for and you won't be the one inevitably who has to put a bullet between the eyes of Kadr or someone just like him in years, days to come.

WTF is the matter with you..

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13 hours ago, dre said:

Any wild idea as to what might actually be talking about here?

Yah you have no idea. See this is why I like you and your contributions to such discussions. You don't have the integrity to debate anything I said but you will come on and try act like some donkey over a typo. It speaks to how you have nothing to contribute and nothing to debate. Yah I know you didn't understand that either.  How about you come on this forum like Omni and misrepresent the law repeatedly and then not have the balls to back up the misrepresentations with the law you claim exists. How about you join Eye and the rest of your entourage calling Kadr a child and a soldier engaged in battle. Go on knock yourself out. You know where to find me, typos and all. At least I make an effort to debate the issues what about you editor? You even know how to spell Kadr and terrorist?

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So no law, case, statute from Omni to back up his false comment that the law said or says Kadr has no dirty hands.

Not a peep from the Kadr apologists on how a good Muslim like Omar accepts blood money in direct contradiction to the Koran and has notgiven it to the widow as the Koran says he should.

Not a peep.

Not a peep from the sheltered, privileged, elitist Kadr apologists.

Oh but one does notice typos. .

Its unbelievable the petulance and affluence of those born with a silver spoon taking the freedoms of this country and the underage soldiers who died to achieve it for granted and putting Kadr on the same moral plane as those brave underage soldiers let alone the victims Kadr and his terrorist cell caused.

Must be something to be so sheltered as to not know the difference between a terrorist and a soldier and to come on this board and insult soldiers for putting their lives on the line to take down terrorists.

Must be something that in a world where terrorists are killing millions someone like Dre doesn't notice that but does notice typos.

Must be something to be so smug and soft and sheltered that the entourage on this forum supporting Kadr have no clue what a moral plane is let alone what moral values are and put terrorists on the same level of moral value as soldiers and the victims of terrorists.

Must be something to lie over and over pretending there is no issue of dirty hands, of public morality that had to be and has to be questioned as to this pay off.

That something is called moral cowardice- to be specific the fear these Kadr apologists and Trudeau and his spineless government   have to do  what was right and challenge the amount of pay out  because of the consequences it brings. .

Moral cowardice shown by this Trudeau regime is nothing but the  fear of opposing what they know was wrong-this pay off.. Moral cowardice argues oh well we would have lost and paid 40 million if we did that. That was a pathetic lie. A pathetic moral coward spinning his lack of leadership, his lack if integrity, his fear of doing the right thing which was to raise the public morality issue. Trudeau just sold this country out like he has running up billions in debt. He doesn't give a damn of anything but what makes it easy for him in the moment. Its all about doing the do good thing for a photo op. That's not leaderhip. That's spineless organ sucking. Yah you bet his act is hard to swallow.

 Moral cowardice I is what Trudeau demonstrated, the fear of doing what is right because of the consequences

It is that simple.

 

 

Edited by Rue
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Abe Lincoln once said, " You can not have the right to do what is wrong!."

It doesn't take a US President to tell me that the fact our government violated the Charter and should be admonished for that, doesn'tabsolve Kadr of what he did.

Teddy Roosevelt said, “Knowing what's right doesn't mean much unless you do what's right."

Most of us in this country know what is right and that is no terrorist for any reason should be compensated in a manner that undermines our basic fundamental moral values.

Its bloody wrong to pay a terrorist no matter what the reason. You want to address the consequences of violating the charter-do so-set up a legal procedure to deal with Canadians who engage in terrorism abroad-Trudeau has not.

You don't use a pay out to avoid the above. The very reason the flawd G Bay process was created was to try address the lack of laws to treat terrorists. Bush's laws may have violated the US Constitution and therefore our Charter but at least he tried to do the right thing.

What do the Kadr apologists offer other  than moral cowardice to this situation?

They claim there was torture-then why not ask the UN, the same UN Eye finds convenient to use as a shield to address why the convention on torture  as  it exists now is meaningless and in fact did not define Kadr's treatment at G Bay as torture. Alleged sleep deprivation from having alight in his cell never turned off  and  his having to wash floors does no constitute torture, neither does ilengthy interrogation with no physical contact, which is the basis of his torture claim. The same UN Eye uses as a moral shied ican not create a convention for the treatment of terrorists precisely because it is moraly bankrupt and controlled by terrorist regimes. Go look who sits on its human rights council.

This is what we get, Eye hiding behind the UN which is morally bankrupt as his moral shield. Yah what a place to hold up as a paramount of moral virtues.

You ask me Ann Frank got it right saying: “Look at how a single candle can both defy and define the darkness.”

Kadr's case should have been a time to test the very limits of the Charter and its coming into conflict with basic public moral values and finding a way to define both. Rather then lead and seize this opportunity in a legal reference to define the scope of public morality in relation to Charter violations, Trudeau fled-he ran like the coward he was making the pathetic excuse he could have lost so he surrendered. What a cowardly spineless thing to say let alone hide behind as an excuse for being morally bankrupt. Oh Mummy it was so hard so I ran. Mummsy give me a breast to suck on I can't handle the adversity.

Does it surprise me he ran and now his  spineless groupies frightened of Kadr, so frightened in fact they try turn him into a cuddly  Panda Bear to defuse their fears make excuses for Trudeau? Nope/I have seen frightened chillden and abused women  all too often turning their tormentor into a Saint to deny their true feelings and fears. Its a coping mechanism. Its common. Its a denial-avoidance reaction.

I was brought up a Jew. We can't accord to deny like that. If we did we would not have survived this long. Our moral collective continues because we choose to look the monster of humanity straight in the face and say, no we will not make excuses for it we will overcome in spite of it.

The people who died so this country could be what it is today, did the same thing. In their memory I will never accept what Kadr did or paying him off as a moral choice. It never was, nor shall it ever be in spite the cowardice of the government of the day. The right thing will prevail. The memory of the soldiers who died so I can live as I do will never be forgotten.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by Rue
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6 minutes ago, Peter F said:

WTF is that?  I've heard of under-age kids joining up in the Big One - but they lied about their age to do so.

That makes no sense. They lied about their age Peter precisely because they were underage,, 14, 15, 16, 17.

Go look it up yourself. My father got in the air force just as he turned 16. He gave a forged birth certificate. It wasn't hard to change the date.

No one called them victims. No one defined them as child soldiers. No one made excuses for them and called their parents abusers.

You don't get the analogy. What I am arguing is by calling Kadr a child soldier, he's put on the same moral plane as such people.

He is not.

The closest analogy we might have for Kadr is youth in the Hitler Youth Groups when they engaged in attacks against Jews, Romanos, people the Nazis targeted. The moral status and culpability of such youth has been addressed. You can read the history books yourself.

Many said they had no choice when they joined up, many say they did.

Making excuses for not having done the right thing after the fact does not address the moral values violated, it simply makes excuses for the violation. The excuse won't make the act less immoral.

 

 

 

Edited by Rue
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6 minutes ago, capricorn said:

Give it time. His lawyers will come up with something. All eyes are now on the Khadr payoff.

Yup.  I'm sure all the terrorists took note of the payout.  Probably gave them a great idea to get further financing for terrorist activities  - paid for by us, the people being terrorized.

Quote

"Rules for Radicals"  Saul Alinsky

Alinsky’s 12 Rules:


1. “Power is not only what you have, but what the enemy thinks you have.“ Power is derived from 2 main sources – money and people. “Have-Nots” must build power from flesh and blood.
2. “Never go outside the expertise of your people.“ It results in confusion, fear and retreat. Feeling secure adds to the backbone of anyone.
3. “Whenever possible, go outside the expertise of the enemy.“ Look for ways to increase insecurity, anxiety and uncertainty.
4. “Make the enemy live up to its own book of rules.“ If the rule is that every letter gets a reply, send 30,000 letters. You can kill them with this because no one can possibly obey all of their own rules.
5. “Ridicule is man’s most potent weapon.“ There is no defense. It’s irrational. It’s infuriating. It also works as a key pressure point to force the enemy into concessions.
6. “A good tactic is one your people enjoy.“ They’ll keep doing it without urging and come back to do more. They’re doing their thing, and will even suggest better ones.
7. “A tactic that drags on too long becomes a drag.“ Don’t become old news.
8. “Keep the pressure on. Never let up.“ Keep trying new things to keep the opposition off balance. As the opposition masters one approach, hit them from the flank with something new.
9. “The threat is usually more terrifying than the thing itself.“ Imagination and ego can dream up many more consequences than any activist.
10. “If you push a negative hard enough, it will push through and become a positive.“ Violence from the other side can win the public to your side because the public sympathizes with the underdog.
11. “The price of a successful attack is a constructive alternative.“ Never let the enemy score points because you’re caught without a solution to the problem.
12. “Pick the target, freeze it, personalize it, and polarize it.“ Cut off the support network and isolate the target from sympathy. Go after people and not institutions; people hurt faster than institutions.

 

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5 hours ago, Rue said:

Abe Lincoln once said, " You can not have the right to do what is wrong!."

It doesn't take a US President to tell me that the fact our government violated the Charter and should be admonished for that, doesn'tabsolve Kadr of what he did.

Teddy Roosevelt said, “Knowing what's right doesn't mean much unless you do what's right."

You quote amoral men to substantiate your own amorality. Good going, Rue!

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26 minutes ago, Goddess said:

Yup.  I'm sure all the terrorists took note of the payout.  Probably gave them a great idea to get further financing for terrorist activities  - paid for by us, the people being terrorized.

You can't have attended university but you definitely are of a JW mind set, G. 

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1 hour ago, Goddess said:

Yup.  I'm sure all the terrorists took note of the payout.  Probably gave them a great idea to get further financing for terrorist activities  - paid for by us, the people being terrorized.

 

We're being terrorized?

Good grief. ^_^

Aren't you being just a wee bit melodramatic?!

Last time I checked, 6 Muslim Canadians were murdered by a right wing Canadian terrorist:

  • The suspect is Alexandre Bissonnette, a 27-year-old student at Laval University. Mr. Bissonnette faces six counts of first-degree murder. He was known in the city’s activist circles as a right-wing troll who frequently took anti-foreigner and anti-feminist positions and stood up for U.S. President Donald Trump.

https://beta.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/quebec-city-mosque-shooting-what-we-know-so-far/article33826078/?ref=https://www.theglobeandmail.com&service=mobile

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On 7/17/2017 at 5:08 AM, Rue said:

The above comment is not only ludicrous in its extreme but cognitively challenged by such extreme pro terrorist bias as to serve to warn anyone on this forum what your agenda is.

You want to make unilateral pronouncements because you support terrorist activities that anyone who does is not is ludicrous and extreme? Lol.

You came on this thread to denigrate the value of Speer's life for all to see. You used passive aggressive references to suggest he's not worth more in value than Kadr and to suggest Kadr was engaged in "battle", i.e., an honourable war.

Kadr was a terrorist. He was killing innocent civilians using terrorism as part of a terror cell that had illegally invaded Iraq. A battle? What a phony attempt to equate what he did as an honourable soldier in a confrontation covered under the Geneva Convention. He was not involved in legal war. He was not following conventional rules of war. He was not dressed in a soldier's uniform engaging in legal war rules.

He was a sniveling coward hiding in ambush and threw a grenade. Battle, firefight. You've never been to war. You've never been attacked by a terrorist. You have never been shot at, spit at, had a grenade thrown at you. You weren't there. You have no clue what a soldier goes through trying to locate a terrorist in a pile of rubble or hiding in a crowd of civilians using a civilian guise.

You sit thousands of miles from the violence and crime cheer leading what Kadr did posing as  as a war analyst.

Your words drip in support of a terrorist engaging in terrorism, pure and simple.

You come on this forum to cheer lead Kadr as an honourable soldier on the same moral plane as Speers until you then denigrate Speer's life value.

Go on cheer lead terrorists and paint them as honourable soldiers engaged in battle.

 

Pathetic.

 

You have every right to go into a rant without showing any facts.

Khadr was put into a situation where he had no control. Just like child soldiers you see in Africa.

For a so-called lawyer, it's interesting to see how you try to devalue the law and instead replace it with emotional rants.

He was a sniveling coward hiding in ambush and threw a grenade. Battle, firefight. You've never been to war. You've never been attacked by a terrorist. You have never been shot at, spit at, had a grenade thrown at you. You weren't there. You have no clue what a soldier goes through trying to locate a terrorist in a pile of rubble or hiding in a crowd of civilians using a civilian guise.

And so what? You have? What is your point anyway? 

What does this have to do with our commitment to our laws and the charter? Why do you promote breaking our laws?

 

 

 

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23 hours ago, Rue said:

Omar was a good boy.

Omar certainly wasn't a good boy...  he was a child forced into doing terrible things at the age of 10 by his father...   the very definition of child soldier.

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