Omni Posted July 10, 2017 Report Posted July 10, 2017 3 hours ago, drummindiver said: Nope. Brokered deal. It never went to the courts. It's been im the court for years. Amm OoC settlement was reached to end the case. Quote
Omni Posted July 10, 2017 Report Posted July 10, 2017 2 hours ago, Wilber said: I doubt a legal system that can't get major cases to court for five, six or more years and regularly has charges for serious violent crimes thrown out just because of it, is the envy of the world. But that is another topic. That is true, there does need to be some work done to expedite cases. Or maybe we should convince people to stop their criminal activity. Quote
Wilber Posted July 10, 2017 Report Posted July 10, 2017 5 minutes ago, Omni said: That is true, there does need to be some work done to expedite cases. Or maybe we should convince people to stop their criminal activity. Too late I think, we have built a system that can't get of its own way. Great for lawyers but not so much for everyone else. 1 Quote "Never trust a man who has not a single redeeming vice". WSC
Army Guy Posted July 10, 2017 Report Posted July 10, 2017 3 hours ago, jacee said: If the US was there for a 'humanitarian' war, why the hell did they do surveys of Afghanistan's resources? Don't worry, Army Guy, the cabal of the rich elite that really runs the US will profit hugely from those resources sooner or later, one way or another. The American people, who paid all those billions for the war machine, will see none of it. War isn't about people. It's about profits for the rich elite. US soldiers are just glorified security for the rich to rape and pillage a country. Now Syria ... Your sources are outdated no longer relevant, much like most of your argument about this topic....US government did alot of things while in Afghanistan, it even surveyed the route for your proposed pipe line... this was to give the Afghanistan government the info so it may move on....only a few new mines opened up, run by the chinese, i know next your going to tell me it is a US / Chinese conspiracy to drain Afghanistan of all it's riches.....That can not be the US pumped bils upon bils into afghanistan and never took anything in return.... I'm not worried your making to much fuse about something that was not there....US industry, along with Canadian industry made bils off our own governments wants and needs, industry did not need the problems of security in order to extract minerals or fuel out of the ground..... perhaps you can provide a source that proves in the afghanistan conflict, US soldiers rape and pillaged ....or is it some empty phrase you put together because the US military scares you because you don't understand the topic at hand..... maybe it is time for you to STFU.....to put it into terms you may understand..... Quote We, the willing, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible for the ungrateful. We have now done so much for so long with so little, we are now capable of doing anything with nothing.
Army Guy Posted July 10, 2017 Report Posted July 10, 2017 2 hours ago, Omni said: How about the SCOTUS? Wake up and do some research before you make am arse of yourself. below is your quote right.....You said that SCOTUS reported to the media that the military tribunal had no proper qualification.but apparently qualifications had nothing to do with it.... Below is the qualifications required to be a US jag officer....of which members of the defense team, prosecution team, and military judges were made up of JAG officers.... JAG REQUIREMENTS Entry into the JAG Corps is extremely competitive. The U.S. Army is currently accepting only the highest legal talent, and academic standards are very strict. In addition to academics, applicants are expected to exhibit the leadership qualities befitting an officer in service to his or her country. Applicant must be a U.S. citizen. Applicant must pass a security clearance. Applicant must adhere to U.S. Army standards of physical fitness. Applicant must have graduated from an ABA-accredited law school. Applicant must have been admitted to the bar of either a Federal court or the highest court of any state in the United States or the District of Columbia. Not only must applicants meet the above JAG corps requirements, they must also be able to serve 20 years of active commissioned service before reaching the age of 62. Applicants must be under the age of 42 at the time of entry into active duty service. Successful applicants who accept a direct commission in the U.S. Army JAG Corps incur a four-year active duty service obligation (ADSO). Judge Advocates choosing to continue serving in the JAG Corps will find unlimited opportunities for both personal and professional development. https://www.goarmy.com/jag/about/requirements.html Quote No not really. And certainly the kangaroo court at Gitmo had no proper qualification, at least according to an actual proper court known as the SCOTUS. Quote The (Uniform Code of Military Justice) conditions the president's use of military commissions on compliance not only with the American common law of war, but also with the rest of the UCMJ itself," Justice Stevens writes. "The procedures that the government has decreed will govern (detainee Salim Ahmed) Hamdan's trial by commission violate these laws. Quote Justices Antonin Scalia, Clarence Thomas, and Samuel Alito dissented, saying the court lacked jurisdiction to take up the case. In a second dissent on the merits, Justice Thomas said the court owed the president "a heavy measure of deference." Quote The court's evident belief that it is qualified to pass on the military necessity of the commander in chief's decision to employ a particular form of force against our enemies is so antithetical to our constitutional structure that it simply cannot got unanswered," Thomas writes. Above are why the S/C ruled against the military tribunal , the procedures that the government has decreed will govern the trail violates these laws.....the court lacked jurisdiction to take up the case.....As far as making myself look like an asre.....that is not my intention, but rather ensure the facts are followed not someones opinion, yours or mine.... https://www.csmonitor.com/2006/0630/p01s01-usju.html Quote We, the willing, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible for the ungrateful. We have now done so much for so long with so little, we are now capable of doing anything with nothing.
Omni Posted July 10, 2017 Report Posted July 10, 2017 3 minutes ago, Army Guy said: not someones opinion, yours or mine.... Not my opinion. The court said Khadr for one was convicted by an unconstitutional kangaroo court, (according to SCOTUS), who used very flimsy, contradictory evidence, and then held without access to legal council for 10 years, which violated his charter rights in Canada, (according to the SC of Canada) You may not like Khadr, but you should respect the law. Quote
Army Guy Posted July 10, 2017 Report Posted July 10, 2017 On top of all the above findings.....Canada's supreme court also knew of their counter parts ruling ( US supreme court) and it does nothing except ensures Omar bunks is turned down before he sleeps in a canadian prison....and you said no one knew of this.....or no one took action on this....his defense team knew of this, they briefed his Canadian lawyer, who did nothing.....everyone just excepted his sentence...... Now you said he was released due to this, that's bullshit...according to the media....he was set free on bail due to time served....nothing about canada letting him out because of the Quote We, the willing, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible for the ungrateful. We have now done so much for so long with so little, we are now capable of doing anything with nothing.
marcus Posted July 10, 2017 Report Posted July 10, 2017 (edited) It's strange watching people who want to introduce themselves as champions of law and order, dismissing law and order. The past three governments chose to violate the Canadian charter and international law. They fought tooth and nail to cover themselves and their masters down south, by spending over $5 million of our money in legal fees against Omar Khadr. They finally gave in to the fact that there is nothing they could do and the rule of law will be upheld. The above is just one part of this whole equation. Another is the lack of empathy displayed by people who have a hard time understanding that a child was involved. A child who was put into a situation he had no control over. A child, a Canadian citizen, who was left by the Canadian officials to be tortured and many of his rights violated. This ruling and the response by our current government (where they had no choice but to accept), gives me hope that we are actually better than most other countries when it comes to realizing justice and law. Screw anyone who wants to abandon our charter. Edited July 10, 2017 by marcus 1 Quote "What do you think of Western civilization?" Gandhi was asked. "I think it would be a good idea," he said.
Army Guy Posted July 10, 2017 Report Posted July 10, 2017 7 minutes ago, Omni said: Not my opinion. The court said Khadr for one was convicted by an unconstitutional kangaroo court, (according to SCOTUS), who used very flimsy, contradictory evidence, and then held without access to legal council for 10 years, which violated his charter rights in Canada, (according to the SC of Canada) You may not like Khadr, but you should respect the law. So now your saying that not only was the SCOTUS calling it a kangaroo court, and the Canadian SC also said that his imprisonment in gitmo violated his charter of rights.....and Omar still served his time in prison......in fact the Canadian justice system locked Omar up for more than 3 years......not letting him out because both S/C's of both countries thought it was a bad judgement....but because he had served his time.....I don't like omar.....but for one looking on the outside looking in.....does that sound right to you....they proved many times that the sentence was a bogus one.....on both sides of the border...and yet omar serves his time....this is what i get out of all this....it did not make one bit of difference what the S/C on both sides thought.....or still think, they were powerless to change anything.....am i getting that right..... Quote We, the willing, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible for the ungrateful. We have now done so much for so long with so little, we are now capable of doing anything with nothing.
Omni Posted July 10, 2017 Report Posted July 10, 2017 4 minutes ago, Army Guy said: So now your saying that not only was the SCOTUS calling it a kangaroo court, and the Canadian SC also said that his imprisonment in gitmo violated his charter of rights.....and Omar still served his time in prison......in fact the Canadian justice system locked Omar up for more than 3 years......not letting him out because both S/C's of both countries thought it was a bad judgement....but because he had served his time.....I don't like omar.....but for one looking on the outside looking in.....does that sound right to you....they proved many times that the sentence was a bogus one.....on both sides of the border...and yet omar serves his time....this is what i get out of all this....it did not make one bit of difference what the S/C on both sides thought.....or still think, they were powerless to change anything.....am i getting that right..... I think both Chretien's and Harper's governments were lax in dealing with the case. And they were even worse than simply lax when Canada sent officials to Gitmo to interview Khadr, especially knowing he was sleep deprived etc., and then turned over the results of those talks to the US folks at the kangaroo court. Had Khadr not plead guilty he may still be sitting in Cuba. I don't like nor dislike Khadr, but legally the whole thing was handled poorly on both sides of the border. One main reason being was that Bush decided that habeas corpus didn't apply to people held by his military in Gitmo, which was likely equally as illegal as the Iraq war was. 1 Quote
Army Guy Posted July 10, 2017 Report Posted July 10, 2017 Quote 16 minutes ago, marcus said: It's strange watching people who want to introduce themselves as champions of law and order, dismissing law and order. The past three governments chose to violate the Canadian charter and international law. They fought tooth and nail to cover themselves and their masters down south, by spending over $5 million of our money in legal fees against Omar Khadr. They finally gave in to the fact that there is nothing they could do and the rule of law will be upheld. The above is just one part of this whole equation. Another is the lack of empathy displayed by people who have a hard time understanding that a child was involved. A child who was put into a situation he had no control over. A child, a Canadian citizen, who was left by the Canadian officials to be tortured and many of his rights violated. This ruling and the response by our current government (where they had no choice but to accept), gives me hope that we are actually better than most other countries when it comes to realizing justice and law. Screw anyone who wants to abandon our charter. Not sure who you aimed that at.....champions of law and order....I have already said i agree that omars had some of his basic right dismissed, and that the persons that are responsible should be held accountable.....And so should Omar be held responsible for his crimes...all of them....he does not get a pass because he was a child soldier....he had no control over his situation is bullshit.....he could have surrendered to any coalition soldier at any time, yelling he is Canadian would have meant a quick trip to the embassy.....but he was having to much fun playing terrorist.... Quote We, the willing, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible for the ungrateful. We have now done so much for so long with so little, we are now capable of doing anything with nothing.
Omni Posted July 10, 2017 Report Posted July 10, 2017 5 minutes ago, Army Guy said: And so should Omar be held responsible for his crimes...all of them. He spent 10 years in prison for crimes he was coerced into confessing to. Quote
Army Guy Posted July 10, 2017 Report Posted July 10, 2017 11 minutes ago, Omni said: I think both Chretien's and Harper's governments were lax in dealing with the case. And they were even worse than simply lax when Canada sent officials to Gitmo to interview Khadr, especially knowing he was sleep deprived etc., and then turned over the results of those talks to the US folks at the kangaroo court. Had Khadr not plead guilty he may still be sitting in Cuba. I don't like nor dislike Khadr, but legally the whole thing was handled poorly on both sides of the border. One main reason being was that Bush decided that habeas corpus didn't apply to people held by his military in Gitmo, which was likely equally as illegal as the Iraq war was. It is those governments that are above the law, no one will be held accountable, never happen.....tax payers will though.....a 10 million dollar payout is peanuts for the government, this will not give officials a second pause when making the same decision in the future....And would would not want to deprive anyone of any sleep, OP Madusa seen most of our section go 6 days no sleep....Can i sue the taliban for torturing me....He got 3 meals a day, hot showers, time to pray, to to read, time to learn.....we got showers maybe once every 2 weeks, got to use a toilet with a seat maybe once a month, got a hot meal once every 2 weeks, eat the same cold rations over and over for 6 months....got shot at at least once a day, blown up every time we left camp, all of us were covered in sand fleas, and bites from sleeping on the ground, not to mention the snakes , scorpions and everything else that was pissed off and wanted to eat you.... ....ya he had it hard i'm sure, Bush was forced to classify what is a terrorist when they UN could not.... Quote We, the willing, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible for the ungrateful. We have now done so much for so long with so little, we are now capable of doing anything with nothing.
Omni Posted July 10, 2017 Report Posted July 10, 2017 3 minutes ago, Army Guy said: Bush was forced to classify what is a terrorist Bush can classify whoever he wants, however he wants. He doesn't have the right to ignore the constitution though. Probably another reason why he is a little hesitant to cross international borders these days. He's guilty of war crimes in the eyes of the ICC. 1 Quote
Army Guy Posted July 10, 2017 Report Posted July 10, 2017 17 minutes ago, Omni said: He spent 10 years in prison for crimes he was coerced into confessing to. We both know that there is a is,small chance of proving very little on a battle field....this is not down town toronto with a CSI team, some pictures were taken, some hand drawings to show where everyone was thought to be, where wpns were found, where wpn fire was observed......then there was the fact all attention was then turned to saving omars life....This is war, so some thing are not going to have the same level of proof.... If he did not throw the grenade he was there when it happened, as is just as guilty as the rest of them..... Quote We, the willing, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible for the ungrateful. We have now done so much for so long with so little, we are now capable of doing anything with nothing.
Army Guy Posted July 10, 2017 Report Posted July 10, 2017 2 minutes ago, Omni said: Bush can classify whoever he wants, however he wants. He doesn't have the right to ignore the constitution though. Probably another reason why he is a little hesitant to cross international borders these days. He's guilty of war crimes in the eyes of the ICC. guilty of war crimes, come on.....we both know that Bush is not going to face any ICC court.....shit we can't even hold our past PM's what happen to omar.... Quote We, the willing, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible for the ungrateful. We have now done so much for so long with so little, we are now capable of doing anything with nothing.
Omni Posted July 10, 2017 Report Posted July 10, 2017 2 minutes ago, Army Guy said: .we both know that Bush is not going to face any ICC court.. He doesn't have to face it. They have already achieved their verdict. Quote
Omni Posted July 10, 2017 Report Posted July 10, 2017 7 minutes ago, Army Guy said: This is war, so some thing are not going to have the same level of proof.... And that's why the Khadr case is so faulty. Quote
eyeball Posted July 10, 2017 Report Posted July 10, 2017 6 hours ago, Boges said: Who cares about what courts said. The Liberals handing over $10.5 mil and giving an apology is horrible optics. Not caring about what our courts say would be excellent optics? 1 Quote A government without public oversight is like a nuclear plant without lead shielding.
GostHacked Posted July 10, 2017 Report Posted July 10, 2017 1 hour ago, Army Guy said: We both know that there is a is,small chance of proving very little on a battle field....this is not down town toronto with a CSI team, some pictures were taken, some hand drawings to show where everyone was thought to be, where wpns were found, where wpn fire was observed......then there was the fact all attention was then turned to saving omars life....This is war, so some thing are not going to have the same level of proof.... If he did not throw the grenade he was there when it happened, as is just as guilty as the rest of them..... So next time you walk by a crime scene you are as guilty as who ever committed the crime? What kind of logic is that? Also WEAPON , not WPN.. nxt tm gnn s n vwls. Quote
bush_cheney2004 Posted July 10, 2017 Report Posted July 10, 2017 (edited) 1 hour ago, Omni said: He doesn't have to face it. They have already achieved their verdict. So kangaroo courts are fine when they support your agenda ? Not surprising..... Edited July 10, 2017 by bush_cheney2004 Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
jacee Posted July 10, 2017 Report Posted July 10, 2017 3 hours ago, Army Guy said: On top of all the above findings.....Canada's supreme court also knew of their counter parts ruling ( US supreme court) and it does nothing except ensures Omar bunks is turned down before he sleeps in a canadian prison....and you said no one knew of this.....or no one took action on this....his defense team knew of this, they briefed his Canadian lawyer, who did nothing.....everyone just excepted his sentence...... Now you said he was released due to this, that's bullshit...according to the media....he was set free on bail due to time served....nothing about canada letting him out because of the Army Guy, You seem to expect the Supreme Court to 'do something' independently without anyone asking them for a ruling. We've already explained that that is not how the Supreme Court works. It was up to the government to act on the ScoC findings, and they didn't ... until they finally did agree to let him serve the last of his sentence in Canada. Canada is now being held accountable for violating his rights, with the settlement just made. I want to acknowledge something here: Child soldiers are dangerous in the war zone, were dangerous to you and other Canadian soldiers. You had to deal with them as necessary in those situations. I understand that. But after the fact is a different story. They can be rescued and rehabilitated. That is the way they are dealt with. They are not convicted of crimes committed in war, because they had no choice. The child soldiers of Boko Haram were brutal, sadistic killers as they were forced and trained to be. However, great efforts were put into rehabilitating them and several of them live in Canada now. I respect your reasons for having intense emotions about this. But this is after the fact now, and we do have a responsibility to focus on rehabilitation and moving on beyond the battlefields, recognizing that Omar Khadr and other children did not have a choice about being there. You might have been equally miserable in the war zone, but you made that choice freely as an adult. On the issue of resentment that he's getting a settlement that no injured soldier ever gets ... I hear you. But, like in union negotiations, you can't build yourself up by tearing someone else down. Instead, you use it as a precedent to go after more. 1 Quote
ironstone Posted July 10, 2017 Report Posted July 10, 2017 On 7/9/2017 at 0:31 PM, jacee said: Ya, I'm sure Pere Khadr would have just stepped right up and declared to Leitch that he's a bagman for AlQuaeda! Lol Where do all the jihadis typically come from when they come over here?What region in the world is known for cultivating the most terrorists?Does it make a lot of sense to bring people here with little or no documentation?Do refugees from this part of the world integrate seamlessly into Western society? Do you have any answers to the above? Quote "Socialism in general has a record of failure so blatant that only an intellectual could ignore or evade it." Thomas Sowell
Hal 9000 Posted July 10, 2017 Report Posted July 10, 2017 4 hours ago, Army Guy said: Your sources are outdated no longer relevant, much like most of your argument about this topic....US government did alot of things while in Afghanistan, it even surveyed the route for your proposed pipe line... this was to give the Afghanistan government the info so it may move on....only a few new mines opened up, run by the chinese, i know next your going to tell me it is a US / Chinese conspiracy to drain Afghanistan of all it's riches.....That can not be the US pumped bils upon bils into afghanistan and never took anything in return.... I'm not worried your making to much fuse about something that was not there....US industry, along with Canadian industry made bils off our own governments wants and needs, industry did not need the problems of security in order to extract minerals or fuel out of the ground..... perhaps you can provide a source that proves in the afghanistan conflict, US soldiers rape and pillaged ....or is it some empty phrase you put together because the US military scares you because you don't understand the topic at hand..... maybe it is time for you to STFU.....to put it into terms you may understand..... Sounds like Jacee has been watching Avatar. Quote The trouble with our liberal friends is not that they're ignorant; it's just that they know so much that isn't so. - Ronald Reagan I have said that the Western world is just as violent as the Islamic world - Dialamah Europe seems to excel at fooling people to immigrate there from the ME only to chew them up and spit them back. - Eyeball Unfortunately our policies have contributed to retarding and limiting their (Muslim's) society's natural progression towards the same enlightened state we take for granted. - Eyeball
bush_cheney2004 Posted July 10, 2017 Report Posted July 10, 2017 No surprise here..... Quote More than two-thirds of Canadians feel Prime Minister Justin Trudeau made the wrong choice in awarding a $10.5 million settlement to Omar Khadr, according to a new poll by the Angus Reid Institute. ... That a significant segment of Canadians have little sympathy for Khadr is not new. In July 2008, a poll by Ipsos-Reid found that 60 per cent of Canadians believed Khadr should remain in U.S. custody and be tried there, with the remaining 40 per cent believing he should be brought back to Canada. http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/grenier-khadr-poll-1.4198306 Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
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