Justin Trudeau the Worst PM Since Pierre Trudeau?

[Argus]

3 hours ago, Tribal_wayz said:

I would argue that the media focuses on outliers to fragment populism.

That would suppose you believe the media are involved in a conspiracy of some sort. 

[Tribal_wayz]

I'm certain that the "monoethnic" character of MSM ownership and/or management is purely chance and not by design. As a matter of fact I would extend this perception to not only MSM ownership and/or ,management but the ownership of most publishing houses, the ownership of movie making and distribution channels - convenient accidents of luck, perchance fate that one group falsely known to create "nations within nations" should come to completely dominate and control most cultural institutions.

No design here at all. No ulterior motive, just chance.

[Argus]

12 hours ago, Tribal_wayz said:

I'm certain that the "monoethnic" character of MSM ownership and/or management is purely chance and not by design. As a matter of fact I would extend this perception to not only MSM ownership and/or ,management but the ownership of most publishing houses, the ownership of movie making and distribution channels - convenient accidents of luck, perchance fate that one group falsely known to create "nations within nations" should come to completely dominate and control most cultural institutions.

No design here at all. No ulterior motive, just chance.

Given you don't build a newspaper or publishing house overnight, and given that Canada had a homogeneous culture (well, two of them, depending on where you lived) for most of its history, that's hardy unlikely. Almost all the non-whites in Canada - except indigenous people - are immigrants or the kids of immigrants who have arrived in the last 40 years, most of them arriving with nothing much in the way of possessions or wealth or job skills. You think they should be up there on the high ranks of business already? That flouts logic and reality.

[GostHacked]

22 hours ago, Argus said:

That would suppose you believe the media are involved in a conspiracy of some sort. 

The media in Canada definitely works together to suppress certain information. That's not even contested really. All to battle 'fake news', when they are putting out a good deal of it themselves.  But you could be right, if they are stupid to fall for satire as news (and we have seen that happen before too), then how are they able to suppress or report on real news?

[Argus]

4 minutes ago, GostHacked said:

The media in Canada definitely works together to suppress certain information. That's not even contested really. 

You state something as if it were a fact without evidence, and then go on to suggest no one disagrees, which is ludicrous. What kind of a weird bubble world do you live in?

[GostHacked]

20 minutes ago, Argus said:

You state something as if it were a fact without evidence, and then go on to suggest no one disagrees, which is ludicrous. What kind of a weird bubble world do you live in?

Fair enough, here you go ...

https://www.nationalobserver.com/2017/02/02/analysis/how-vulnerable-canada-fake-news-very

Quote

“It’s not about reinventing the wheel, it’s about supporting the existing infrastructure that can provide Canadians with credible news.”

That support may already be on its way. In January, Joly signalled at a meeting with members of a Quebec culture and communications union that the struggling news media industry is set to receive financial help from Ottawa in next week’s federal budget.

However, the documents released to The Canadian Press separated the issue of a struggling news media industry as “distinct” from the issues surrounding the rise of fake news.

So this is how they get everyone to say the same thing ....

Quote

One such initiative – a partnership between social media giant Facebook, which has been widely criticized for not combating deliberate misinformation campaigns, and Canadian not-for-profit media literacy group MediaSmarts – is meant to combat fake news that could influence the next federal election.

MediaSmarts education director Matthew Johnson said that, with funding from Facebook, they are creating a guide for MPs, candidates and parties on identifying online misinformation as well as public service announcement videos and short games for Canadian social media users.

And in the end it is about controlling the message, and with social media, they are having a very hard time with it. Where SHOULD you trust your news from? We even know that Facebook itself took part in social manipulation by putting stories in people's feeds to determine reaction to them.

Quote

“This is a conversation that we need to have with Canadians, including with companies which provide platforms for this information to be disseminated.”

We also know what gets reported early has a good chance of being incorrect.  I will again point out the WMDs that Saddam was alledged to have was coordinated, not just in Canadian media, but Internationally as well from the USA, the UK, Europe and several other nations.

https://globalnews.ca/news/4039886/canada-stem-fake-news-government/

Quote

Immediately after the attack on the Quebec mosque, reports began circulating that the shooter was yelling “Allahu Akbar.” Fox News falsely reported to the world that the shooter was Moroccan.

Prime Minister Trudeau's office admirably took on Fox News over its "false and misleading" reports, ultimately forcing Fox to apologize and retract the reports. But, of course, the lie was already half way around the world.

Mind you this if Fox news, but I don't think you can say it's not happening here.

https://www.newswire.ca/news-releases/fake-news-creates-a-serious-problem-for-canadian-journalists-new-study-finds-649584013.html

Quote

TORONTO, Oct. 5, 2017 /CNW/ - Cision (NYSE: CISN) Cision's 2017 Canadian Social Journalism findings provide insights into how Canadian journalists use social media and examines the problems that it has created for the media industry, which includes fake news and a negative impact on traditional journalistic values. This is the sixth year of the study which looks at the impact of social media on journalists in Canada and around the world. 

The rise of social media is what is causing a good deal of fake news in MSM, because the reporters may not be vetting information before it's posted as legit news. And they admit that they use social media for a good portion of their research.  Now some may not be pushing it knowing it is fake news, but you can bet that there are some who are doing it on purpose. But they are not vetting their information, completely lazy-ass journalism.

Quote

Despite social media being an increasingly central part of the job, journalists' views on the impact of social media on their profession, work, and daily practices were mixed. Less than half of respondents agreed that social media has had a positive impact on journalism. Of particular concern was social media's role in the rise of fake news, with 68 per cent of respondents identifying it as a serious problem. Interestingly, journalists' professional setting and demographic profile influenced concerns around fake news. News, politics and current affairs journalists were most concerned about fake news as were younger respondents when compared to their older colleagues. More than half (59 per cent) of respondents were also concerned about the impact of social media on traditional journalistic values. 

Another problem is government sponsored articles that look like genuine news articles , but is nothing more than social manipulation. Normally people don't like being lied to or having the hood pulled over their heads. If the government (Health Canada) wanted to put a legit message out then why not just do so?

http://www.cbc.ca/news/health/second-opinion180421-1.4628887

Quote

Is it "fake news" if Health Canada pays for articles to be distributed to newspapers across the country without disclosing that the content was produced by the federal government?

Under the headline "Feds' Fake News Cost $577K" an Ottawa-based news site Blacklock's Reporter revealed that it's common practice for some federal government ministries to place government-sponsored content in community papers through a private content provider called News Canada Inc.

Health Canada has paid News Canada Inc. $490,000 over the last two and a half years, an amount that represents "a small percentage of the department's total expenditures on communications," said Health Canada spokesperson Eric Morrissette in an email.

The stories look like ordinary news articles. "How to protect yourself and others in the face of a growing opioid crisis" is one example of Health Canada sponsored content.

https://globalnews.ca/news/4039886/canada-stem-fake-news-government/

This is a short video that can explain a good deal of what happens within the MSM.  This is why independent media began to rise. Now they seem to have some of the same problem, but on a larger scale but.

What I find really interesting is the part about the fake incubators, and the same speech by Harper and Howard side by side for comparison.  And what kind of stories get pushed to the top. I am sure everyone loved having nothing but that stupid ass royal wedding pushed to them via every platform over the past week. Now it's also interesting that it leads to guys like Jon Stewart who kind of reported more real news via his satirical show than most MSM.  That causes MSM a problem as it seems the controlled agenda being pushed through them which seems to go against what real journalism is all about. I end up going to some MSM and some independant media sites to get the real story as almost all sides are putting out some fucking fake message to throw us off.

 

[Argus]

23 hours ago, GostHacked said:

Fair enough, here you go ...

None of that is evidence of ANYTHING. 

You have some people talking about how to fight fake news. That does not mean collusion in what they actually do report only that those who report untruths should be exposed as such. No one, and certainly not me, are going to claim the MSM are perfect. I think they're biased to the Left, for the most part, and prone to going with stories which support their progressive social and political leanings. They're also prone to 'exciting' news, which is the old 'if it bleeds, it leads' kind of thinking. They give us celebrity crap as i its news to win ratings and love to fan controversy. 

What they will NOT do is write or show a story they know is untrue. Not even FOX, though FOX will certainly heavily slant its news and coverage. And many of it's 'opinion' interviews come very close to being properly labelled 'FAKE NEWS'. 

But the alternative media has no compunction over lying to make whatever case it's trying to make.

[Michael Hardner]

13 minutes ago, Argus said:

But the alternative media has no compunction over lying to make whatever case it's trying to make.

Generally, I agree with your post but it depends on how you define 'alternative'.  The free weekly arts papers given out from the 1970s onwards, such as the Georgia Straight, NOW or Eye Magazine in Toronto have:

1) A building

2) Reputations

3) Lawyers

Given that these are ongoing enterprises that need to pay back the investment in plant without being sued into the bedrock they will not post utter untruths.  And those opinions which are outrageous and unprovable are pretty clear to spot also.  

Any new medium has to establish boundries and the web/facebook is no different.

[Michael Hardner]

That said, PM Trudeau gets a free ride in many respects and "the right kind of people" as Capote called them, don't get too upset over things that JT does even if they would flip their chairs if Trump did it.

Some examples:

-defunding Jordan Peterson because you don't like his politics

-getting someone fired from McGill because they disparaged Quebec in a newspaper

These things have happened in plain sight.  No conspiracy needed.  So to all you conspiracy people out there - how do you explain THAT ?

[taxme]

On 5/21/2018 at 10:09 AM, GostHacked said:

Fair enough, here you go ...

https://www.nationalobserver.com/2017/02/02/analysis/how-vulnerable-canada-fake-news-very

So this is how they get everyone to say the same thing ....

And in the end it is about controlling the message, and with social media, they are having a very hard time with it. Where SHOULD you trust your news from? We even know that Facebook itself took part in social manipulation by putting stories in people's feeds to determine reaction to them.

We also know what gets reported early has a good chance of being incorrect.  I will again point out the WMDs that Saddam was alledged to have was coordinated, not just in Canadian media, but Internationally as well from the USA, the UK, Europe and several other nations.

https://globalnews.ca/news/4039886/canada-stem-fake-news-government/

Mind you this if Fox news, but I don't think you can say it's not happening here.

https://www.newswire.ca/news-releases/fake-news-creates-a-serious-problem-for-canadian-journalists-new-study-finds-649584013.html

The rise of social media is what is causing a good deal of fake news in MSM, because the reporters may not be vetting information before it's posted as legit news. And they admit that they use social media for a good portion of their research.  Now some may not be pushing it knowing it is fake news, but you can bet that there are some who are doing it on purpose. But they are not vetting their information, completely lazy-ass journalism.

Another problem is government sponsored articles that look like genuine news articles , but is nothing more than social manipulation. Normally people don't like being lied to or having the hood pulled over their heads. If the government (Health Canada) wanted to put a legit message out then why not just do so?

http://www.cbc.ca/news/health/second-opinion180421-1.4628887

https://globalnews.ca/news/4039886/canada-stem-fake-news-government/

This is a short video that can explain a good deal of what happens within the MSM.  This is why independent media began to rise. Now they seem to have some of the same problem, but on a larger scale but.

What I find really interesting is the part about the fake incubators, and the same speech by Harper and Howard side by side for comparison.  And what kind of stories get pushed to the top. I am sure everyone loved having nothing but that stupid ass royal wedding pushed to them via every platform over the past week. Now it's also interesting that it leads to guys like Jon Stewart who kind of reported more real news via his satirical show than most MSM.  That causes MSM a problem as it seems the controlled agenda being pushed through them which seems to go against what real journalism is all about. I end up going to some MSM and some independant media sites to get the real story as almost all sides are putting out some fucking fake message to throw us off.

 

I guess that Trump is right, alright. The corporate elite liberal MSM is all fake news. They should all just join as one big media conglomerate and save lot's of money. One CEO is cheaper than having five or six. Those political liberal actors and activists called journalists and reporters like we see on CNN, MSNBC, CBS, NBC and ABC and the good old Canadian media party(CBC/CTV/Global)as examples of how all those mentioned pretty much repeat the exact same words when reporting on some news event. It truly is deplorable.  

[bush_cheney2004]

Well, to be fair, Justin Trudeau simply does not matter as much as any U.S. president for international "relations", and in some cases for domestic polices, as Canadian media imports and devours lots of U.S. "content" as routine and expected.  Trudeau's mistakes are smaller in scale and import.

Accordingly, discontinuity arises because "fake news" is constitutionally protected speech/expression in the United States...import the American lies and political labels at your own risk (but I expect it to continue because of the relative content vacuum in Canada).

[bush_cheney2004]

5 minutes ago, taxme said:

I guess that Trump is right, alright. The corporate elite liberal MSM is all fake news. They should all just join as one big media conglomerate and save lot's of money. One CEO is cheaper than having five or six. Those political liberal actors and activists called journalists and reporters like we see on CNN, MSNBC, CBS, NBC and ABC and the good old Canadian media party(CBC/CTV/Global)as examples of how all those mentioned pretty much repeat the exact same words when reporting on some news event. It truly is deplorable.  

 

Agreed...they just regurgitate whatever the America media machine cranks out.

There is no more "news"...it is just "content".

[taxme]

2 hours ago, Argus said:

None of that is evidence of ANYTHING. 

You have some people talking about how to fight fake news. That does not mean collusion in what they actually do report only that those who report untruths should be exposed as such. No one, and certainly not me, are going to claim the MSM are perfect. I think they're biased to the Left, for the most part, and prone to going with stories which support their progressive social and political leanings. They're also prone to 'exciting' news, which is the old 'if it bleeds, it leads' kind of thinking. They give us celebrity crap as i its news to win ratings and love to fan controversy. 

What they will NOT do is write or show a story they know is untrue. Not even FOX, though FOX will certainly heavily slant its news and coverage. And many of it's 'opinion' interviews come very close to being properly labelled 'FAKE NEWS'. 

But the alternative media has no compunction over lying to make whatever case it's trying to make.

The alternative media is a lot more reliable than the MSM is or will ever be. Anyone who listens and believes the bs that the MSM throws up as news every day, especially about Trump, is beyond stupid and hopeless. At least the alternative media does make a heck of a lot more common sense and logic in their reporting than the MSM does. They lie pretty much all of the time. Anyone who believes that the alternative media is not much better than the MSM than they have to be two bricks short of a load. Just saying. 

[taxme]

3 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

Well, to be fair, Justin Trudeau simply does not matter as much as any U.S. president for international "relations", and in some cases for domestic polices, as Canadian media imports and devours lots of U.S. "content" as routine and expected.  Trudeau's mistakes are smaller in scale and import.

Accordingly, discontinuity arises because "fake news" is constitutionally protected speech/expression in the United States...import the American lies and political labels at your own risk (but I expect it to continue because of the relative content vacuum in Canada).

Many Canadians enjoy listening too and believing all the lies that they hear about Trump that come from the likes of CNN, MSNBC and of course our dear taxpayer funded CBC. Everyone I talk to all hate Trump because the fools believe what those mentioned above feed them all the time. Most Canadians are just a bunch of lemmings. They lack the ability to think for themselves. The MSM does that for them. The MSM could tell Canadians that the sky is starting to fall down and they would believe it and not bother to take the time to look up to see if it were true or not and start running for cover. I find that most Canadians and Americans are pretty much ignorant when it comes to politics. The only time that they get involved in politics is at election time. They vote and then they forget. This is why politicians keep treating Canadians with contempt because they really do deserve it. When it comes to mistakes Trudeau has been making them big ones for Canada and he seems to enjoy exporting them too. Just saying. 

[taxme]

19 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

Agreed...they just regurgitate whatever the America media machine cranks out.

There is no more "news"...it is just "content".

Or to be rather blunt about it, it all is just plain full of bull chit. And yet many still believe their fake news lies. Shocking. 

[angrypenguin]

Oops posted in wrong thread. deleted

Edited May 27, 2018 by angrypenguin

[GostHacked]

On 5/22/2018 at 12:40 PM, Argus said:

What they will NOT do is write or show a story they know is untrue. Not even FOX, though FOX will certainly heavily slant its news and coverage. And many of it's 'opinion' interviews come very close to being properly labelled 'FAKE NEWS'.

I would argue that they do put out false stories on purpose. The Iraq propaganda is 100% proof of that. Now since it can be done on that level with regard to drumming up false evidence on purpose to go to war with another nation. You can bet this happens on the lover levels of the news media.

Now with the Iraq propaganda, that came from the governments themselves and TOLD media what to put forth. Now even if the media (like Fox) did not know about it, the conspiracy is that the government tells the media what to put forth and in many cases they tow the line or funding gets cut. That's deplorable. And that also happens in Canada.  Don't like that someone is speaking truths? Defund them.

[taxme]

On 5/22/2018 at 9:40 AM, Argus said:

None of that is evidence of ANYTHING. 

You have some people talking about how to fight fake news. That does not mean collusion in what they actually do report only that those who report untruths should be exposed as such. No one, and certainly not me, are going to claim the MSM are perfect. I think they're biased to the Left, for the most part, and prone to going with stories which support their progressive social and political leanings. They're also prone to 'exciting' news, which is the old 'if it bleeds, it leads' kind of thinking. They give us celebrity crap as i its news to win ratings and love to fan controversy. 

What they will NOT do is write or show a story they know is untrue. Not even FOX, though FOX will certainly heavily slant its news and coverage. And many of it's 'opinion' interviews come very close to being properly labelled 'FAKE NEWS'. 

But the alternative media has no compunction over lying to make whatever case it's trying to make.

You need to listen to FOX and Hannity, Tucker or Laura for longer than two minutes to know that FOX news does not promote fake news. What you should be really saying here is that the MSM fake and lying liberal MSM has no compunction to lie about anything to keep all the swampster deep state alive and well. When one watches all the left wing liberal media open their useless mouths they all appear to speak with the same tongue. They all repeat the same words. I will take what the alternative media has to say any day over what those lying bunch of batard lieberals have to say. They are such deplorable thingys. 

[Centerpiece]

2 hours ago, GostHacked said:

I would argue that they do put out false stories on purpose. The Iraq propaganda is 100% proof of that. Now since it can be done on that level with regard to drumming up false evidence on purpose to go to war with another nation. You can bet this happens on the lover levels of the news media.

Now with the Iraq propaganda, that came from the governments themselves and TOLD media what to put forth. Now even if the media (like Fox) did not know about it, the conspiracy is that the government tells the media what to put forth and in many cases they tow the line or funding gets cut. That's deplorable. And that also happens in Canada.  Don't like that someone is speaking truths? Defund them.

Iraq was a mess - no doubt..........but what false stories are you taking about? I think you are re-writing history to suit your needs. It was pretty well accepted that Saddam had WMD. That's why the UN made continuous formal resolutions to have Saddam let inspectors come in and verify. He ignored every one of them. Why would he do so if he didn't have them? As it turns out - the reason was simple - the guy was an idiot. The US then looked for UN authorization for a coalition to go into Iraq to seek out the WMD. The UN waffled and eventually, the US said they would formalize a coalition and go into Iraq. Saddam still wouldn't budge and neither did the UN. And then it started. All of this unfolded openly right in front of our eyes. Was it the right decision? Hindsight is great, isn't it? It COULD have been the right decision if they had followed a different plan after running over the Iraqi army. But that's not what transpired - and we still have the remnants of the eventual disaster to this day. 

[Argus]

5 hours ago, GostHacked said:

I would argue that they do put out false stories on purpose. The Iraq propaganda is 100% proof of that.

No. It's 100% proof they will cover the government's statements. 

5 hours ago, GostHacked said:

Now since it can be done on that level with regard to drumming up false evidence on purpose to go to war with another nation. You can bet this happens on the lover levels of the news media.

No again. There's an old axiom that two can keep a secret if one of them is dead. You're trying to suggest tens of thousands, maybe hundreds of thousands of people are involved in a vast conspiracy to manipulate us all with false news and none of them is willing to blab? Sorry, not buying it.

5 hours ago, GostHacked said:

Now with the Iraq propaganda, that came from the governments themselves and TOLD media what to put forth. Now even if the media (like Fox) did not know about it, the conspiracy is that the government tells the media what to put forth and in many cases they tow the line or funding gets cut. That's deplorable. And that also happens in Canada.  Don't like that someone is speaking truths? Defund them.

Very little of the mainstream media is funded by government, and defunding even them isn't easy or the tories would have gotten rid of the CBC years ago.

[bush_cheney2004]

History is repeating....Trudeau government nationalizes Kinder Morgan pipeline project.

This is what Trudeaus are famous for...they learned it from BFF Fidel Castro !

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/politics/article-trudeau-government-to-buy-kinder-morgans-trans-mountain-pipeline/

Edited May 29, 2018 by bush_cheney2004

[Queenmandy85]

No, they learned it from a Conservative, Sir John A. MacDonald and the trans-continental railroad.

[PIK]

This pipeline is now going to be a huge boondoggle and you heard it here 1st.

[Queenmandy85]

1 hour ago, PIK said:

This pipeline is now going to be a huge boondoggle and you heard it here 1st.

I bow to your expertise. How would you get the pipeline built within legal and political parameters?

[Centerpiece]

18 hours ago, Queenmandy85 said:

I bow to your expertise. How would you get the pipeline built within legal and political parameters?

It's those legal and political parameters from this government that got us here in the first place - and has now sent a signal to the world that it is virtually impossible to get our natural resources out of the ground and shipped to global markets. First, they changed the rules on the environmental review process - a process which had already been successfully completed by Kinder Morgan. That process is in itself, so onerous and subjective that it will scare off investment. Then they came up with Bill C-48 - the oil tanker moratorium, now in the senate - which virtually guarantees that no further coastal shipping projects can be built. An oil project - in the national interest, following a route that's been viable for 65 years can't be built? We're being played for suckers - duped by US funded money to keep out resources in the ground while the US forges ahead and are now an oil exporter. As Obama boasted: "This administration has built enough pipeline to circle the globe - and then some". Our wild-eyed, naive eco-nuts have been duped by US Big Oil into making Canada the Sucker Nation. Remember all the "protests" in the US over the XL Pipeline - a pipeline to funnel Canadian oil to Tidewater? Where was all the outrage over the Obama pipeline boasting?