Justin Trudeau the Worst PM Since Pierre Trudeau?

[Argus]

8 minutes ago, -TSS- said:

I get the impression from this forum that Mulroney isn't very fondly remembered in Canada. If I am right then why is it so? He won two elections, the first with a landslide, so what turned him unpopular in the end?

Well, he was a crook and a liar. Those are two reasons.

And he was a weasel of a politician who would do and say whatever he thought would get him elected. It was his government, for example, which tripled immigration, not because it would be good for our economy, but because new immigrants tend to vote for the party that was in power when they came in.

Despite concerns about the social and financial impact of increased immigration and doubts about the country's ability to assimilate new arrivals at the current rate, Ms McDougall will announce tomorrow that Canada will begin accepting up to 250,000 immigrants a year.

However, given the ambiguity of the economic arguments, Ms McDougall carried the day by stressing the benefits to the Progressive Conservative Party from increased immigration, especially in urban areas such as Southern Ontario.

http://immigrationwatchcanada.org/1990/10/24/mcdougall-wins-battle-to-increase-immigration/

[Argus]

On 7/30/2017 at 10:21 AM, drummindiver said:

A totally demonstrateable, proveable confabulation. http://business.financialpost.com/fp-comment/canada-regains-title-of-most-reputable-nation-despite-harper-derangement-frenzy

Yes, this meme from the far left about how Canada wasn't respected in the world was always ridiculous. And when you tracked it down to source it always came out to we were too nice to the Jews so the Muslim world didn't like us.

[-TSS-]

4 minutes ago, Argus said:

Well, he was a crook and a liar. Those are two reasons.

And he was a weasel of a politician who would do and say whatever he thought would get him elected. It was his government, for example, which tripled immigration, not because it would be good for our economy, but because new immigrants tend to vote for the party that was in power when they came in.

Despite concerns about the social and financial impact of increased immigration and doubts about the country's ability to assimilate new arrivals at the current rate, Ms McDougall will announce tomorrow that Canada will begin accepting up to 250,000 immigrants a year.

However, given the ambiguity of the economic arguments, Ms McDougall carried the day by stressing the benefits to the Progressive Conservative Party from increased immigration, especially in urban areas such as Southern Ontario.

http://immigrationwatchcanada.org/1990/10/24/mcdougall-wins-battle-to-increase-immigration/

But he managed to cheat people to get him elected twice. If people had known from the start that he was a crook and a liar he wouldn't have become PM.

He left office before the end of his second term and that woman had tthe unenviable role to be the scapegoat and in the following elections the party was destroyed.

[Argus]

4 minutes ago, -TSS- said:

But he managed to cheat people to get him elected twice. If people had known from the start that he was a crook and a liar he wouldn't have become PM.

He left office before the end of his second term and that woman had tthe unenviable role to be the scapegoat and in the following elections the party was destroyed.

He also sued the government of Canada after his defeat for sending a letter to the Swiss government suggesting he had an illegal arrangement with a german lobbyist to arrange the purchase of airbuses for Air Canada. They settled out of court for a couple of million dollars, but years later it emerged that the lobbyist had paid Mulroney (after he left office) a quarter million dollars in cash for services never specified which Mulroney had failed to disclose. Mulroney was a liar and a thief.

Edited July 31, 2017 by Argus

[-TSS-]

2 minutes ago, Argus said:

He also sued the government of Canada years for sending a letter to the Swiss government suggesting he had an illegal arrangement with a german lobbyist to arrange the purchase of airbuses for Air Canada. They settled out of court for a couple of million dollars, but years later it emerged that the lobbyist had paid Mulroney (after he left office) a quarter million dollars in cash for services never specified which Mulroney had failed to disclose. Mulroney was a liar and a thief.

Oh, I see. That anawers perfectly my original question.

I seem to recall that the 1984 election was something of a revolution in Canadian politics as the Liberals were always considered the kind of a natural party of government.

[SpankyMcFarland]

1 hour ago, Argus said:

Chretien did not give a damn about the deficit or the budget. Chretien did not have any vision or ideas and there was nothing he particularly wanted to do as prime minister. Like Donald Trump, he simply wanted the title. He was a political weasel and all he cared about was politics and winning. He let Martin do what he wanted because there was no viable opposition, and even after the money started rolling in he just let it pile up because he saw it as ammunition that he could use at election time should the opposition get its act together. 

As for Martin, once he became PM and faced an actual united conservative party with a real threat against him he opened the taps wide and offered up everything in that election but a free toaster for every vote. His promises, had he won and had he actually lived up to them, would have returned us to deficits.

Our own internal motivations are impossible to divine, let alone anybody else's. I judge Chrétien on his results. He brought the deficit down and stabilized our national debt and for that he deserves great praise. As regards the vision thing, he was, again, the anti-Trudeau, an arch-pragmatist. He kept things that worked like the GST and free trade. 

Both Liberals and Conservatives have benefited from a split opposition and the magic of FPTP but the Conservatives need it more because they are a minority in this country. 

 

Edited July 31, 2017 by SpankyMcFarland

[SpankyMcFarland]

Mulroney was a success overall. The GST and free trade are still with us as well as a concern about deficit spending. He also had the right approach on apartheid and capital punishment. The figures look bad for him on the deficit front but both he and Michael Wilson were worried about it and were trying to get it under control. I like the way he spoke in fully formed sentences, even on the phone. He did badly blot his copybook over the Airbus affair - that's a small matter in the big picture, something he will have to live with that does not really affect the rest of us. It remains to be seen whether Trudeau will radically change the fiscal consensus that has persisted since Mulroney's time. I doubt it. 

Edited July 31, 2017 by SpankyMcFarland

[-TSS-]

So the conclusion is that if Mulroney was a crook, a thief and a liar he is still better than Trudeau jnr at least according to the OP of this thread as the title goes that Trudeau jnr is the worst PM since his father and Mulroney was PM after Pierre Trudeau.

[SpankyMcFarland]

4 hours ago, -TSS- said:

But he managed to cheat people to get him elected twice. If people had known from the start that he was a crook and a liar he wouldn't have become PM.

He left office before the end of his second term and that woman had tthe unenviable role to be the scapegoat and in the following elections the party was destroyed.

All pols tell lies. That's kind of compulsory. Small 'c' conservatives split on geographic lines and FPTP did the rest: 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadian_federal_election,_1993

So the 'destroyed' party got 16% of the vote and 2 seats while the other right-wing party got 18.7% and 52 seats. The Official Opposition got 13.5% of the vote, less than either but all in one province, and 54 seats.    

Edited July 31, 2017 by SpankyMcFarland

[PIK]

On 7/31/2017 at 10:34 AM, Argus said:

He also sued the government of Canada after his defeat for sending a letter to the Swiss government suggesting he had an illegal arrangement with a german lobbyist to arrange the purchase of airbuses for Air Canada. They settled out of court for a couple of million dollars, but years later it emerged that the lobbyist had paid Mulroney (after he left office) a quarter million dollars in cash for services never specified which Mulroney had failed to disclose. Mulroney was a liar and a thief.

He was,but I did smile when I found out he screwed that little german. lol

[betsy]

On 2/15/2017 at 2:08 PM, Omni said:

I'd worry more about my home turf.

http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2017/02/08/trudeau-trump_n_14646334.html

 

Like as if we're not in  bigger trouble in Canada!

 

That's like you replying to someone (who sits on a canoe with no paddle), who comments on your situation........while you're sinking fast in quick sand! 

Edited August 17, 2017 by betsy

[Omni]

54 minutes ago, betsy said:

 

Like as if we're not in  bigger trouble in Canada!

 

That's like you replying to someone (who sits on a canoe with no paddle), who comments on your situation........while you're sinking fast in quick sand! 

You love your emoticons eh.

[capricorn]

What is it that compels some Canadian elected officials and their minions to be so generous with taxpayers money? Is it that the Canadian treasury offers them unlimited access to funds they get that they don't know the value of a buck? Is it that this access to other people's money goes to their head? What is that they don't give a whip about how they spend taxpayer's money?

Quote

Prime Minister Justin Trudeau’s top aide says paying one of Canada's newest diplomatic appointees nearly double what the going-rate is “completely in line” with other federal appointments from the private sector.

The posting makes the Liberal-appointee, and former Liberal candidate, one of the highest-paid Canadian diplomats.

Rana Sarkar was named consul-general to San Francisco as part of a round of U.S. diplomatic appointments the federal government announced on Aug. 2. According to the Privy Council office, his salary is within the $221,300 to $260,300 range. The official pay scale for the posting is in the range of $119,600 to $140,700.

n defending the appointment on Twitter on Monday morning, Gerald Butts, principal secretary to Trudeau called Sarkar a “friend,” and said often luring people from the private sector to a government job is a challenge, because of the hit to their salaries.

“Rana Sarkar's salary as CG is completely in line with those other appointments from the private sector,” Butts said as part of a series of tweets.

http://www.ctvnews.ca/politics/new-diplomat-with-ties-to-liberal-party-making-nearly-double-the-post-s-official-salary-1.3554537

Yes, yes, Sarkar and Butts are friends. But does that mean that Sarkar should command twice the pay that the position normally pays. I can imagine the perks that accompany this cushy appointment. Then we have Trudeau, presumably  approving of this nepotism. The more I look at this, the more I think Trudeau has lost control of this government.

[capricorn]

Gerald Butts continues to defend compensation to be paid to his and Trudeau's friend Rana Sarkar. According to Butts, Sarkar has accepted a substantial pay cut to accept the position of Consul General to San Fransisco in order to serve his country. Oh, well, that makes it all right then.

[Hydraboss]

17 hours ago, capricorn said:

I think Trudeau has lost control of this government

I really don't think Justin ever HAD control of this government.  Seriously, I doubt that he's actually intelligent enough to realize what he doesn't understand.  I honestly believe the guy is substantially below the average IQ of people who make it to elected government positions, which would explain why he is only able to speak in platitudes and struggles so much with on-the-spot questions.

If Butts told him "we should pay this person this much", I highly doubt Justin would have the intellectual wherewithal to have any kind of reasoned response.  Likely why he never seems to disagree with anyone on the Liberal side - he's not bright enough to put up a rational argument.

[-TSS-]

Interesting clip about your PM

 

 

Edited August 24, 2017 by -TSS-

[-TSS-]

Had the very tight referendum in 1995 gone the other way round, nobody today would have doubts about the worst PM. After all, a break-up of your country is not exactly a legacy to be proud of.

[-TSS-]

If Justin Trudeau has children or other close relatives who want to enter politics they have the same fate in that attempt as Jeb Bush. Jeb is a civilised gentleman and he would have made a good president but he was tainted by his family; people simply didn't want another Bush in the White House.

[PIK]

Justin's speech to the UN was disgraceful and a pure sucking up to dictators to get his seat on the UN council. Now he gave all the ammunition to the UN dictators when anyone tries to get them to ease up on their own people, when now they just have to say canada does it to. That was one of the most disgusting speeches a leader of this country can give. He needs to resign.

[eyeball]

6 hours ago, PIK said:

Justin's speech to the UN was disgraceful and a pure sucking up to dictators to get his seat on the UN council. Now he gave all the ammunition to the UN dictators when anyone tries to get them to ease up on their own people, when now they just have to say canada does it to. That was one of the most disgusting speeches a leader of this country can give. He needs to resign.

Whatever else he needs to do (like, get off our backs and stop sending arms to dictators) this is the first thing he's said that's impressed me.  The real ammunition sold to Saudi Arabia notwithstanding and assuming Trudeau actually follows up on realigning Canada's relationships with indigenous peoples, Trudeau has done exactly the opposite of what you've said.  

'Easing up on their own people' is in fact what Trudeau is referring to when he discussed doing something about Canada's failure to address indigenous peoples concerns.  The best any dictator will be able to say is that in the past Canada once did what dictators do.  If Canada is ever going to be a truly moral force in the UN in the future, especially with regards to getting other countries to "ease up" on their people, we'd better make sure we doing that ourselves now, in the present. 

    

Edited September 25, 2017 by eyeball

[PIK]

15 hours ago, eyeball said:

Whatever else he needs to do (like, get off our backs and stop sending arms to dictators) this is the first thing he's said that's impressed me.  The real ammunition sold to Saudi Arabia notwithstanding and assuming Trudeau actually follows up on realigning Canada's relationships with indigenous peoples, Trudeau has done exactly the opposite of what you've said.  

'Easing up on their own people' is in fact what Trudeau is referring to when he discussed doing something about Canada's failure to address indigenous peoples concerns.  The best any dictator will be able to say is that in the past Canada once did what dictators do.  If Canada is ever going to be a truly moral force in the UN in the future, especially with regards to getting other countries to "ease up" on their people, we'd better make sure we doing that ourselves now, in the present. 

    

The UN is done. It is not the UN we grew up with and respected. Take a hard look at who runs the UN, DICTATORS. Take the time some day and look it up. Like the humans right committe, full of some of the biggest human rights abusers in the world and trudeau will do what it takes to hang out with them as in the SC. If you knew anything of the trudeau history ,there wasn't a dictator the trudeaus did not like. 

[bush_cheney2004]

As expected, Team Trudeau's vehement anti-Boeing rhetoric has not been met by action(s).

Canada has not withdrawn its request for Super Hornet sales, and is also looking at used Hornets that are still supported by...Boeing.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/boeing-super-hornets-pentagon-1.4311860

[DogOnPorch]

1 hour ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

As expected, Team Trudeau's vehement anti-Boeing rhetoric has not been met by action(s).

Canada has not withdrawn its request for Super Hornet sales, and is also looking at used Hornets that are still supported by...Boeing.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/boeing-super-hornets-pentagon-1.4311860

 

Oh, the irony.

[PIK]

Trudeau is sick and tired of being his father's son, and he is going to something stupid with the social justice thingy to outdo his father, at our expense. That is the problem.

[eyeball]

On 9/26/2017 at 6:55 AM, PIK said:

The UN is done. It is not the UN we grew up with and respected. Take a hard look at who runs the UN, DICTATORS. Take the time some day and look it up. Like the humans right committe, full of some of the biggest human rights abusers in the world and trudeau will do what it takes to hang out with them as in the SC. If you knew anything of the trudeau history ,there wasn't a dictator the trudeaus did not like. 

Stop acting like the Trudeaus have some sort of uber-wealthy/powerful generation spanning influence on global affairs.  The Trudeaus are just a couple of guys...its taken thousands of politicians and leaders of all stripes decades to make dictatorships respectable and normal. 

The reason the UN is 'done' as you say is because countries like ours should have been applying sanctions against them and their supporters.  Instead we all too often looked the other way and even helped some of them grow stronger.