Canadian Muslims demanding end to free speech / Canada's Anti-Islamophobia Committee will begin meetings next month

[bush_cheney2004]

Islam FIRST.....Canada SECOND for these young Muslims:

 

Quote

The majority of young Muslims in Canada feel Muslim first and Canadian second, an Environics Institute surveyreleased Wednesday suggests.

... Among young respondents who said their citizenship and their faith were important parts of their identity, 61 per cent said being Muslim was the most important part of their identity and six per cent said being Canadian was the most important. Twenty-six per cent said both were important.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/environics-muslim-canadian-survey-1.3551465

 

[BillyBeaver]

Sadly, this is true, I do know one of the 4 of the other types of Muslims though.The 26% that says both. He is cool. I don't like religious zealots of any persuasion.

[blackbird]

Canada's anti-Islamophobia committee will begin meetings next month.

http://debatepost.com/2017/04/13/canadas-anti-islamophobia-study-will-start-next-month/

Edited April 13, 2017 by blackbird

[scribblet]

This is the second step in the process to stifle free speech and to enact blasphemy laws which seem to only include Islam.

[kactus]

Good...I am against any form of hate speech including the ones against certain people from a religious group....

[Guest]

I am against it too, but I certainly wouldn't want to see it prohibited, forbidden or punished in any way. One has to be free to hate. 

And to blaspheme, as it happens. 

Edited April 14, 2017 by bcsapper

[blackbird]

So is speaking against a particular religion or ideology "hate speech"?  What is the definition of Islamophobia?  Is it referring to speaking against a group of people or does it include speaking against a religion?  For example can one be opposed to discrimination against women or certain people?  Or will that be Islamophobia?  I don't think the word "Islamophobia" can be enshrined in any kind of law but the word is undefined and can be made to apply to whatever one wishes to apply it to.

Edited April 14, 2017 by blackbird

[Moonlight Graham]

People should be free to criticize any religion they choose.  What they need to study is hate-crimes against Muslims, which is on the rise in Canada.

[kactus]

To me "Islamophobia" is a made up word to group a certain people who practice it. Not everyone does it but some people use it as a motivation as hate speech against muslims. Same way we see reference to holocaust used to reference to jews and open the door for anti semitism....

[kactus]

3 minutes ago, Moonlight Graham said:

People should be free to criticize any religion they choose.  What they need to study is hate-crimes against Muslims, which is on the rise in Canada.

That is the same kind of sentiment I share. Although the wording of islamophobia is so loosely defined to create that platform to attack all muslims. 

[Guest]

6 minutes ago, kactus said:

That is the same kind of sentiment I share. Although the wording of islamophobia is so loosely defined to create that platform to attack all muslims. 

One doesn't attack all Muslims. If one says, for instance, that Sharia Law is barbaric and should never be given even the slightest consideration in the west, one is only attacking those Muslims who think it should. All the others would agree with the sentiment, surely?  It's the same when expressing disgust at any barbaric religious or cultural practices.  The only people who should be offended are those who would defend them, and who cares what they think?

[blackbird]

14 minutes ago, kactus said:

 Although the wording of islamophobia is so loosely defined to create that platform to attack all muslims. 

Not sure what you mean exactly there.

[Guest]

I see an islamaphobic student was murdered on campus in Pakistan yesterday. 

[-1=e^ipi]

44 minutes ago, bcsapper said:

I see an islamaphobic student was murdered on campus in Pakistan yesterday. 

Don't forget #HangAyazNizami.

All in the name of fighting Islamophobia of course.

[kactus]

7 hours ago, blackbird said:

Not sure what you mean exactly there.

Islamophobia is just another term to attack Muslim and incite hate crimes.

[eyeball]

14 hours ago, bcsapper said:

I am against it too, but I certainly wouldn't want to see it prohibited, forbidden or punished in any way. One has to be free to hate. 

And to blaspheme, as it happens. 

I'm all for instituting a policy of public ridicule against Islamophobes.  That shouldn't prohibited, forbidden or punished in any way either. 

[Guest]

1 hour ago, eyeball said:

I'm all for instituting a policy of public ridicule against Islamophobes.  That shouldn't prohibited, forbidden or punished in any way either. 

It's already in place.  Both fall well within the confines of freedom speech..

Edited April 15, 2017 by bcsapper

[Guest]

8 hours ago, kactus said:

Islamophobia is just another term to attack Muslim and incite hate crimes.

If you mean the term that applies to that which we should be "anti", it should only apply to that which already breaks the law.  Pulling on a hijab on the subway, applying graffiti to a Mosque, that sort of thing.  It's the same as Infidelophobia.  It should only apply to the stuff that would be illegal anyway.  Blowing people up, killing them for blasphemy, etc.  Simply stating you do not agree with someone who draws Muhammad or practices a gay lifestyle, for instance,  should not be considered Infidelophobic, at least, not such that it ought to be banned. Tolerance is very important.

Edited April 15, 2017 by bcsapper

[Argus]

9 hours ago, kactus said:

Islamophobia is just another term to attack Muslim and incite hate crimes.

You appear to be confused. Islamophobia is a made-up word meant to describe those who express any disrespect, dislike, doubt or even lack of enthusiasm about Islam and its spread.

If, for example, one were to say that the Islamic world forsook scholarship in all areas of science, philosophy and technology in favor of scholarship in Islam alone about a thousand years ago, and has been awash in backwardness and ignorance ever since, then you could be called Islamophobic - even though the statement is indisputable. 

Edited April 15, 2017 by Argus

[Bob Macadoo]

Ye

2 hours ago, Argus said:

You appear to be confused. Islamophobia is a made-up word meant to describe those who express any disrespect, dislike, doubt or even lack of enthusiasm about Islam and its spread.

If, for example, one were to say that the Islamic world forsook scholarship in all areas of science, philosophy and technology in favor of scholarship in Islam alone about a thousand years ago, and has been awash in backwardness and ignorance ever since, then you could be called Islamophobic - even though the statement is indisputable. 

Actually it's neither....just ignorant.  Research in Saudi Arabia and the UAE would dispute that.  Now if you said poor islamic countries have favoured humanity studies as opposed to more expensive scientific research that could be argued......but that's not the kind of nuanced brown debate you want to have.

Islamophobia would be more like...."those dumb arabs will want to teach my child sharia instead of math because that's all they study over there"......irrational fear of some made up transgression

[Argus]

1 hour ago, Bob Macadoo said:

Ye

Actually it's neither....just ignorant.  Research in Saudi Arabia and the UAE would dispute that.  Now if you said poor islamic countries have favoured humanity studies as opposed to more expensive scientific research that could be argued......but that's not the kind of nuanced brown debate you want to have.

By 'humanities' you mean "Islam". If you think you can dispute my statement with more than smarmy, fatuous words I invite you to do so. The fact is that Islam decided back around 1100 that nothing mattered but Islam. And their education reflects that. There are 1.6 billion Muslims in the world. The top rated university in the Muslim world is ... 640th, I believe, from Malaysia. You wouldn't know this, of course, because you are almost entirely ignorant of everything and anything to do with Islam. Your sole interest is that they are 'brown' people, thus requiring social justice warriors like yoursefl to rush to defend them from even the merest hint of a disrespectful comment.

Today, however, the spirit of science in the Muslim world is as dry as the desert. Pakistani physicist Pervez Amirali Hoodbhoy laid out the grim statistics in a 2007 Physics Today article: Muslim countries have nine scientists, engineers, and technicians per thousand people, compared with a world average of forty-one. In these nations, there are approximately 1,800 universities, but only 312 of those universities have scholars who have published journal articles. Of the fifty most-published of these universities, twenty-six are in Turkey, nine are in Iran, three each are in Malaysia and Egypt, Pakistan has two, and Uganda, the U.A.E., Saudi Arabia, Lebanon, Kuwait, Jordan, and Azerbaijan each have one.

There are roughly 1.6 billion Muslims in the world, but only two scientists from Muslim countries have won Nobel Prizes in science (one for physics in 1979, the other for chemistry in 1999). Forty-six Muslim countries combined contribute just 1 percent of the world’s scientific literature; Spain and India each contribute more of the world’s scientific literature than those countries taken together. In fact, although Spain is hardly an intellectual superpower, it translates more books in a single year than the entire Arab world has in the past thousand years. “Though there are talented scientists of Muslim origin working productively in the West,” Nobel laureate physicist Steven Weinberg has observed, “for forty years I have not seen a single paper by a physicist or astronomer working in a Muslim country that was worth reading.”

Comparative metrics on the Arab world tell the same story. Arabs comprise 5 percent of the world’s population, but publish just 1.1 percent of its books, according to the U.N.’s 2003 Arab Human Development Report. Between 1980 and 2000, Korea granted 16,328 patents, while nine Arab countries, including Egypt, Saudi Arabia, and the U.A.E., granted a combined total of only 370, many of them registered by foreigners. A study in 1989 found that in one year, the United States published 10,481 scientific papers that were frequently cited, while the entire Arab world published only four. This may sound like the punch line of a bad joke, but when Nature magazine published a sketch of science in the Arab world in 2002, its reporter identified just three scientific areas in which Islamic countries excel: desalination, falconry, and camel reproduction.

http://www.thenewatlantis.com/publications/why-the-arabic-world-turned-away-from-science

 

 

[blackbird]

1 hour ago, Argus said:

By 'humanities' you mean "Islam". If you think you can dispute my statement with more than smarmy, fatuous words I invite you to do so. The fact is that Islam decided back around 1100 that nothing mattered but Islam. And their education reflects that. There are 1.6 billion Muslims in the world. The top rated university in the Muslim world is ... 640th, I believe, from Malaysia. You wouldn't know this, of course, because you are almost entirely ignorant of everything and anything to do with Islam. Your sole interest is that they are 'brown' people, thus requiring social justice warriors like yoursefl to rush to defend them from even the merest hint of a disrespectful comment.

Today, however, the spirit of science in the Muslim world is as dry as the desert. Pakistani physicist Pervez Amirali Hoodbhoy laid out the grim statistics in a 2007 Physics Today article: Muslim countries have nine scientists, engineers, and technicians per thousand people, compared with a world average of forty-one. In these nations, there are approximately 1,800 universities, but only 312 of those universities have scholars who have published journal articles. Of the fifty most-published of these universities, twenty-six are in Turkey, nine are in Iran, three each are in Malaysia and Egypt, Pakistan has two, and Uganda, the U.A.E., Saudi Arabia, Lebanon, Kuwait, Jordan, and Azerbaijan each have one.

There are roughly 1.6 billion Muslims in the world, but only two scientists from Muslim countries have won Nobel Prizes in science (one for physics in 1979, the other for chemistry in 1999). Forty-six Muslim countries combined contribute just 1 percent of the world’s scientific literature; Spain and India each contribute more of the world’s scientific literature than those countries taken together. In fact, although Spain is hardly an intellectual superpower, it translates more books in a single year than the entire Arab world has in the past thousand years. “Though there are talented scientists of Muslim origin working productively in the West,” Nobel laureate physicist Steven Weinberg has observed, “for forty years I have not seen a single paper by a physicist or astronomer working in a Muslim country that was worth reading.”

Comparative metrics on the Arab world tell the same story. Arabs comprise 5 percent of the world’s population, but publish just 1.1 percent of its books, according to the U.N.’s 2003 Arab Human Development Report. Between 1980 and 2000, Korea granted 16,328 patents, while nine Arab countries, including Egypt, Saudi Arabia, and the U.A.E., granted a combined total of only 370, many of them registered by foreigners. A study in 1989 found that in one year, the United States published 10,481 scientific papers that were frequently cited, while the entire Arab world published only four. This may sound like the punch line of a bad joke, but when Nature magazine published a sketch of science in the Arab world in 2002, its reporter identified just three scientific areas in which Islamic countries excel: desalination, falconry, and camel reproduction.

http://www.thenewatlantis.com/publications/why-the-arabic-world-turned-away-from-science

 

 

Excellent information.

We should remind people the word Islamophobia could be defined by breaking it down into it's constituent parts, ie,  Islam   and phobia.  According to the Compact Oxford Canadian Dictionary, a phobia is an abnormal fear.  Also an aversion to something.  If one has a fear of Islam, it may be justified and therefore not necessarily an abnormal fear.  I'm not sure how one would define an abnormal fear.  In any case, in a country which has freedom of religion and freedom of expression, I doubt that Islamophobia could be put in law.  How does one outlaw a fear of an ideology or religion in a country where everyone is free to believe in what they wish?  It's absurd. 

Edited April 15, 2017 by blackbird

[blackbird]

Mulling over this M103 and the new committee to examine Islamophobia.  Seems the introduction of this motion and subsequent debates and newspaper articles has generated more opposition to what they are doing than if they had left it alone in the first place.  Some things are better left alone.  Government cannot tinker with fundamental freedoms without expecting a backlash.  Since they brought the motion into parliament, there have been more debates, large protests, thousands of letters and E-mails sent to members of parliament, and talk shows on TV and radio.

[Ash74]

16 hours ago, blackbird said:

Mulling over this M103 and the new committee to examine Islamophobia.  Seems the introduction of this motion and subsequent debates and newspaper articles has generated more opposition to what they are doing than if they had left it alone in the first place.  Some things are better left alone.  Government cannot tinker with fundamental freedoms without expecting a backlash.  Since they brought the motion into parliament, there have been more debates, large protests, thousands of letters and E-mails sent to members of parliament, and talk shows on TV and radio.

By focusing on one group of people it also caused further racism towards it. Combined with video's of Muslims dropping homosexual people off of roofs and clips of Muslim leaders calling for Sharia law and death to those of other religions it has stirred up a huge amount of racism.  M103 has caused more racial unrest by bringing the issues front and center.

I personally do not understand why feminists are supporting Islam nor do I think it is fair to allow one religion in schools and not others.  

[Michael Hardner]

2 hours ago, Ash74 said:

I personally do not understand why feminists are supporting Islam nor do I think it is fair to allow one religion in schools and not others.  

It's actually as simple as defining what "in schools" actually means.  If you do so, you will find that the application of the rules is mostly consistent.  The outliers are also quite understandable.